Carnival Cruises..... are there perks?

[cruisingguy007]

2 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

You make it seem like the Havana area takes up the entire ship.  Combining the square footage of the Havana area and the Serenity area is still substantially less than the square footage of the Family Harbour area and all of the family oriented swim and play areas on the Lido deck and above.

 

The point is that you seem to want a premium/exclusive product subsidized by all the other cruisers. I think there will be some push back if this trend continues. Why pay equal or more for less? This also creates a class system on the ships. If it was so popular and everyone loves it, then why not create an entire product of it instead of a piecemeal approach? These products already exsist. Why reininvent the wheel? Carnival is a blue collar everyman cruise line. That's the appeal for many who use their product. It becomes less appealing when they try and imitate their luxury counterparts. It may work for a while but eventually people will realize what is going on. 

[SNJCruisers]

1 hour ago, cruisingguy007 said:

Carnival is a blue collar everyman cruise line. That's the appeal for many who use their product. 

I will agree with this portion of your statement.   But, who do you consider as Carnival's main competitors for the "blue collar everyman cruise line"?

I would say it would be NCL and MSC. And guess what?  NCL has the Haven and MSC has the Yacht Club, but not on all of their ships in each of their fleets.  Both of these areas take up substantially more square footage on their ships than the Havana area and Serenity areas combined on Carnival. 

 

Carnival is not anti family just because they have these areas on their new builds.  They are just trying to generate more money by offering a niche product that some of their clientele will pay a premium price for.  The alternative would be to eliminate the Havana area and Loft 19 so your children have more space to play, of course the lost revenue would be passed on to the families that would be the beneficiaries of this extra space by being charged more for the product that Carnival provides.

Is it worth it for you to pay more just to have the premium areas eliminated on 4 out of 25 ships in the fleet?

 

[NightOne]

14 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

Sure but OP specified cruising on Royal which is considerably better than Carnival.

 

It is not 😉

 

Maybe better if you like being solicited every 5 minutes. LOL

[xDisconnections]

9 minutes ago, NightOne said:

 

It is not 😉

 

Maybe better if you like being solicited every 5 minutes. LOL

What's wrong with pay to play?

[NightOne]

1 minute ago, xDisconnections said:

What's wrong with pay to play?

 

Pay to play what??? 

[cruisingguy007]

11 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

I will agree with this portion of your statement.   But, who do you consider as Carnival's main competitors for the "blue collar everyman cruise line"?

I would say it would be NCL and MSC. And guess what?  NCL has the Haven and MSC has the Yacht Club, but not on all of their ships in each of their fleets.  Both of these areas take up substantially more square footage on their ships than the Havana area and Serenity areas combined on Carnival. 

 

Carnival is not anti family just because they have these areas on their new builds.  They are just trying to generate more money by offering a niche product that some of their clientele will pay a premium price for.  The alternative would be to eliminate the Havana area and Loft 19 so your children have more space to play, of course the lost revenue would be passed on to the families that would be the beneficiaries of this extra space by being charged more for the product that Carnival provides.

Is it worth it for you to pay more just to have the premium areas eliminated on 4 out of 25 ships in the fleet?

 

 

I'm already paying more. My last booking I could have saved some money by booking Havana area. I'm subsidizing an area that I can't use. Theoretically, I could have booked it and a family harbor and just exchanged wristbands and used both areas but I digress. Havana may be a premium product over inside cabins but isn't for many other categories, it's less or equal to many other category rates. It's being subsidized by other cruisers who can't use that area. Serenity is the same for any passenger who's under 21, they pay (subsidize) their cruise fair and can't use the area. Considering the pool and hot tub allotment on ships, it's substantial square footage, of the most important type for many, that is basically a dead value (square footage and facilities wise). I have no problem with them generating money but do have a problem when it's done on my back. Commingling two products ensures one group is subsidizing another and is just a sneaky way for the cruise lines to reintroduce the class system on ships by another name. People shouldn't fall for it.        

Edited April 16, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[miery71]

First and business class seats on airplanes must make you so mad.

[jetsfan58]

I would not necessarily classify Carnival as the "Walmart" of the Cruise Industry. My classification would be a "Full Solid Entertainment Value". 

 

This coming from the Carnival Cruise Nut himself. We will gladly welcome you aboard as long as you don't mind "Smiling" along the way. Come on and Join The "Nut Society" you will be surprised how well you fit in!!!

[SNJCruisers]

12 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

I would not necessarily classify Carnival as the "Walmart" of the Cruise Industry. My classification would be a "Full Solid Entertainment Value"

Go over to the RCI boards and see how Carnival gets bashed even by those who just use second hand information and have never cruised on Carnival.  Every cruise line has their pluses and minuses.  having been a Carnival cruiser for 35 years since 1986, I have seen many changes over the years, some good and many bad.

[jetsfan58]

3 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said:

Go over to the RCI boards and see how Carnival gets bashed even by those who just use second hand information and have never cruised on Carnival.  Every cruise line has their pluses and minuses.  having been a Carnival cruiser for 35 years since 1986, I have seen many changes over the years, some good and many bad.

That's unfortunate because that takes the fun out of friendly competition. I have never bashed any other Cruise line and never will. I said on another post "That my only RCL cruise was a family reunion back in the late 90's. The individuals (staff and passengers) that I encountered were not that friendly and were rather "Uppity". As a result, we have never chosen to sail them again.    

[SNJCruisers]

2 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I'm already paying more. My last booking I could have saved some money by booking Havana area. I'm subsidizing an area that I can't use. Theoretically, I could have booked it and a family harbor and just exchanged wristbands and used both areas but I digress. Havana may be a premium product over inside cabins but isn't for many other categories, it's less or equal to many other category rates. It's being subsidized by other cruisers who can't use that area. Serenity is the same for any passenger who's under 21, they pay (subsidize) their cruise fair and can't use the area. Considering the pool and hot tub allotment on ships, it's substantial square footage, of the most important type for many, that is basically a dead value (square footage and facilities wise). I have no problem with them generating money but do have a problem when it's done on my back. Commingling two products ensures one group is subsidizing another and is just a sneaky way for the cruise lines to reintroduce the class system on ships by another name. People shouldn't fall for it.        

You have 21 ships to choose from without a Havana area.  It's only on 4 ships at this point, but will be on future builds.  If you don't like it, cruise NCL.  Oh wait, they have the Haven.  If you don't like it, cruise MSC.  Oh wait, they have the Yacht Club.  If you don't like it, cruise RCI.  Oh wait, they have the Solarium.

 

Do you get it yet?  If you like Carnival's product, sail on one of the 21 ships in the fleet that does not have a Havana area.  One guy complaining about it who lives outside SF is not going to change the minds of the bean counters in Miami FLA.

[SNJCruisers]

2 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

That's unfortunate because that takes the fun out of friendly competition. I have never bashed any other Cruise line and never will. I said on another post "That my only RCL cruise was a family reunion back in the late 90's. The individuals (staff and passengers) that I encountered were not that friendly and were rather "Uppity". As a result, we have never chosen to sail them again.    

There is a CC poster called Firefly who primarily cruises on RCI and Carnival since she is based out of Galveston.  She has posted repeatedly about the attitude of the Diamond Plus and especially the Pinnacles on Royal.  Pinnacle is RCI's equivalent of Diamonds on Carnival.  Diamond + would be similar to a non existent Platinum + on Carnival.  The main gripe right now is the possibility of the free bottles of wine going to Pinnacles and the free cookies going to Diamonds being eliminated.  The one thread went down the rabbit hole and got locked.

[jetsfan58]

4 minutes ago, SNJCruisers said:

There is a CC poster called Firefly who primarily cruises on RCI and Carnival since she is based out of Galveston.  She has posted repeatedly about the attitude of the Diamond Plus and especially the Pinnacles on Royal.  Pinnacle is RCI's equivalent of Diamonds on Carnival.  Diamond + would be similar to a non existent Platinum + on Carnival.  The main gripe right now is the possibility of the free bottles of wine going to Pinnacles and the free cookies going to Diamonds being eliminated.  The one thread went down the rabbit hole and got locked.

It's a personal choice. I choose Carnival. 

[jperry2011]

Gamble in the casino. I broke even and gambled a good amount now I get highly discounted cruises. On my last cruise with carnival we got a free steak house dinner, bottle of wine, cookies delivered to the door and free drinks in the casino just for a little gambling.

[BlerkOne]

21 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

The point is that you seem to want a premium/exclusive product subsidized by all the other cruisers.

You win the Internet.

 

There is a reason why cruise lines don't have different classes - the people who want first class on a mass market cruise ship won't pay to maintain it very long. And the rest of the cruisers will tire of subsidizing it.

 

It is a phase that will pass.

 

As for airlines, many in first class/biz class are corporate travelers exercising their perks with the cost being passed along to consumers. Airlines love last minute travelers. Whenever airlines go bankrupt they always manage to preserve loyalty miles and points. Got to keep the biz people happy. Probably government people in there, too.

[SNJCruisers]

33 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

There is a reason why cruise lines don't have different classes - the people who want first class on a mass market cruise ship won't pay to maintain it very long. And the rest of the cruisers will tire of subsidizing it.

 

It is a phase that will pass.

There are different classes on MSC, NCL, Princess, Celebrity, Royal Caribbean and Carnival.  MSC started the Yacht Club in 2008 on the Fantasia.  NCL started their upgraded suites in 2005 and named them the Haven in 2011.  Princess started their Club Class in 2016.  RCI started their Royal Suite Class in 2016.  Celebrity has their Aqua Class.  Carnival has their Havana area on the Vista and Excellence Classes as well as the Loft 19 area on their Excellence Class ships.

 

MSC truly has a four class system on their ships.  First Class is the Yacht Club, Second Class are the Aurea cabins, Third Class is Fantastica and Forth Class is Bella.

 

Mass Market cruise lines as I have listed do in fact have different classes on board, and will not be a phase that will pass.  The ship within a ship concept that the Haven and the Yacht Club represent allow cruisers to be in their own area of the ship for the majority of the day and then go into the general population area of the ship for their evenings entertainment or to go to a specialty restaurant if desired.

Those that choose these accommodations pay a premium and sometimes with the Haven a high premium that those in other areas of the ship are not subsidizing. 

Every new build from each of these lines have these type of areas and they are certainly not "a phase that will pass."

[xDisconnections]

8 hours ago, jetsfan58 said:

I would not necessarily classify Carnival as the "Walmart" of the Cruise Industry. My classification would be a "Full Solid Entertainment Value". 

 

This coming from the Carnival Cruise Nut himself. We will gladly welcome you aboard as long as you don't mind "Smiling" along the way. Come on and Join The "Nut Society" you will be surprised how well you fit in!!!

 

8 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

Go over to the RCI boards and see how Carnival gets bashed even by those who just use second hand information and have never cruised on Carnival.  Every cruise line has their pluses and minuses.  having been a Carnival cruiser for 35 years since 1986, I have seen many changes over the years, some good and many bad.

 

8 hours ago, jetsfan58 said:

That's unfortunate because that takes the fun out of friendly competition. I have never bashed any other Cruise line and never will. I said on another post "That my only RCL cruise was a family reunion back in the late 90's. The individuals (staff and passengers) that I encountered were not that friendly and were rather "Uppity". As a result, we have never chosen to sail them again.    

Why would anyone bash Carnival? Who would do such a thing?

[xDisconnections]

8 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

There is a CC poster called Firefly who primarily cruises on RCI and Carnival since she is based out of Galveston.  She has posted repeatedly about the attitude of the Diamond Plus and especially the Pinnacles on Royal.  Pinnacle is RCI's equivalent of Diamonds on Carnival.  Diamond + would be similar to a non existent Platinum + on Carnival.  The main gripe right now is the possibility of the free bottles of wine going to Pinnacles and the free cookies going to Diamonds being eliminated.  The one thread went down the rabbit hole and got locked.

I wouldn’t compare a status tier requiring 700 nights to one only requiring 200.

[BlerkOne]

2 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

There are different classes on MSC, NCL, Princess, Celebrity, Royal Caribbean and Carnival.  MSC started the Yacht Club in 2008 on the Fantasia.  NCL started their upgraded suites in 2005 and named them the Haven in 2011.  Princess started their Club Class in 2016.  RCI started their Royal Suite Class in 2016.  Celebrity has their Aqua Class.  Carnival has their Havana area on the Vista and Excellence Classes as well as the Loft 19 area on their Excellence Class ships.

 

MSC truly has a four class system on their ships.  First Class is the Yacht Club, Second Class are the Aurea cabins, Third Class is Fantastica and Forth Class is Bella.

 

Mass Market cruise lines as I have listed do in fact have different classes on board, and will not be a phase that will pass.  The ship within a ship concept that the Haven and the Yacht Club represent allow cruisers to be in their own area of the ship for the majority of the day and then go into the general population area of the ship for their evenings entertainment or to go to a specialty restaurant if desired.

Those that choose these accommodations pay a premium and sometimes with the Haven a high premium that those in other areas of the ship are not subsidizing. 

Every new build from each of these lines have these type of areas and they are certainly not "a phase that will pass."

Carnival Corp has more brands than the others put together. They can dedicate ships exclusively for different classes, no need to lump altogether. MSC is trying a one size fits all and being backed by one of the largest commercial ship companies in the world and privately held can afford to lose money for a long time.

 

Royal and NCL are picking up niche markets for people who want to pretend they are rich and rub others noses in it. When those customers really are rich, they may well graduate to really first class lines that only have one class.

 

A number of cruise lines that tried to do too much went belly up long before the pandemic. Carnival and their brands know to identify core competencies and do them well. Others are still searching.

 

I recall one cruise line that built ships designed for anytime dining ahead of the curve. They now swim with the fishes.

 

Those who pay higher prices for better accomodations don't begin to cover the cost of their digs and fool no one but themselves.  When history repeats, the cost of the suite life will go up and up and ginormous cabins will be broken up.

[SNJCruisers]

27 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

I wouldn’t compare a status tier requiring 700 nights to one only requiring 200.

The comparison was Pinnacles complaining about the possibility of no longer getting their free bottle of wine and Diamond Plus cruisers complaining about not getting free cookies.  

[SNJCruisers]

11 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Carnival Corp has more brands than the others put together. They can dedicate ships exclusively for different classes, no need to lump altogether. MSC is trying a one size fits all and being backed by one of the largest commercial ship companies in the world and privately held can afford to lose money for a long time.

 

Royal and NCL are picking up niche markets for people who want to pretend they are rich and rub others noses in it. When those customers really are rich, they may well graduate to really first class lines that only have one class.

 

A number of cruise lines that tried to do too much went belly up long before the pandemic. Carnival and their brands know to identify core competencies and do them well. Others are still searching.

 

I recall one cruise line that built ships designed for anytime dining ahead of the curve. They now swim with the fishes.

 

Those who pay higher prices for better accomodations don't begin to cover the cost of their digs and fool no one but themselves.  When history repeats, the cost of the suite life will go up and up and ginormous cabins will be broken up.

As usual, you gloss over all of the concrete examples of the issue at hand that I listed with multiple lines.

The fact that Carnival Cruise Line  has the other 8 divisions in the Corporation for niche cruisers has helped them in the past and will again in the future.  It will at the same time solidify the fact that they truly are the Walmart of the Seas.  They have never been an innovator with any aspect of cruising, unless you like Sky Bikes or roller coasters.  They will continue to be profitable because they aim to obtain the bottom of the barrel and be a cruise line for the masses.  This is why they initially are against embarking outside the US and why they more than likely will not require vaccines.   They will only adjust these two policies if they are backed into a corner and have no other options.

[xDisconnections]

9 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

The comparison was Pinnacles complaining about the possibility of no longer getting their free bottle of wine and Diamond Plus cruisers complaining about not getting free cookies.  

We'll agree to disagree:

"Pinnacle is RCI's equivalent of Diamonds on Carnival."

[BlerkOne]

10 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

 

The fact that Carnival Cruise Line  has the other 8 divisions in the Corporation for niche cruisers has helped them in the past and will again in the future.  

You have that backwards. Carnival Corp has a number of cruise lines including CCL. Some rich people shop at Walmart. Some have their staff do it.

 

All cruise lines sell illusions. Which illusion you need depends on your mental state and pocketbook.

 

Most people don't need to be walled off from reality.

 

 

 

 

[jetsfan58]

12 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

You have that backwards. Carnival Corp has a number of cruise lines including CCL. Some rich people shop at Walmart. Some have their staff do it.

 

All cruise lines sell illusions. Which illusion you need depends on your mental state and pocketbook.

 

Most people don't need to be walled off from reality.

 

 

 

 

I actually have no issue with cruisers addressing Carnival as "Walmart of The Seas". They are totally entitled to their opinion and their personal opinion generally matters more to them than others. Although I don't frequent Walmart as much as maybe others (strictly a logistical issue as there is no Walmart near me) I still get a joy out of saving money.

 

My point is as negative as the Walmart connotations may appear, there are others that are/were much less meaningful but Iconic (Does Kmart Ring A Bell)?  Bargains Are Us!!!        

[BlerkOne]

7 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

I actually have no issue with cruisers addressing Carnival as "Walmart of The Seas". They are totally entitled to their opinion and their personal opinion generally matters more to them than others. Although I don't frequent Walmart as much as maybe others (strictly a logistical issue as there is no Walmart near me) I still get a joy out of saving money.

 

My point is as negative as the Walmart connotations may appear, there are others that are/were much less meaningful but Iconic (Does Kmart Ring A Bell)?  Bargains Are Us!!!        

Royal cruisers prefer to think of themselves as Kmart shoppers to differentiate. Walmart is still the better value and Kmart is failing.