July start!!

[BoozinCroozin]

5 hours ago, joeyancho said:

Forgery is a felony.  Would you commit a felony in order to cruise?    No?   Why assume others would.  

Seriously? Never said I would. I am simply stating facts. Fake vaccine cards have been out since Day 1 of the vaccines. You could buy them for $5 online with actual Pfizer lot numbers on them. Since the cruise lines will not have access to the tracking database, it is simple fact that requiring vaccines is not going to be the answer. In the US, you are protected by HIPAA laws. Your medical information is protected. 

Another case and point on vaccination. You do realize that in most states US citizens are required to provide proof of vaccination for their US citizen children to attend public school but if you are a child of an illegal immigrant the school districts are not permitted to required it nor ask for it? So tell me how this is anywhere remotely different.

[Pizzasteve]

7 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

Seriously? Never said I would. I am simply stating facts. Fake vaccine cards have been out since Day 1 of the vaccines. You could buy them for $5 online with actual Pfizer lot numbers on them. Since the cruise lines will not have access to the tracking database, it is simple fact that requiring vaccines is not going to be the answer. In the US, you are protected by HIPAA laws. Your medical information is protected. 

Another case and point on vaccination. You do realize that in most states US citizens are required to provide proof of vaccination for their US citizen children to attend public school but if you are a child of an illegal immigrant the school districts are not permitted to required it nor ask for it? So tell me how this is anywhere remotely different.

One can fake a Driver License, marriage licence, apply for a credit card using a stolen SSN, try to drink in a bar underage, fake a medical license and try to treat patients.  All those acts are criminal and the culprits treated accordingly.  It shocked me that posters on this site said they would be willing to fake credentials.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Pizzasteve

[BoozinCroozin]

26 minutes ago, Pizzasteve said:

One can fake a Driver License, marriage licence, apply for a credit card using a stolen SSN, try to drink in a bar underage, fake a medical license and try to treat patients.  All those acts are criminal and the culprits treated accordingly.  It shocked me that posters on this site said they would be willing to fake credentials.

To be clear so no one ever misconstrues what I said early, I never said I faked vaccination card. I simply state how easy it is and has been since Day 1.

 

A large portion of people that do do these things are not caught. I am just stating the facts that there are fake vaccination cards out there and the person I asked that gave me my vaccine stated they don't track the vaccination slips. If they are given 500 slips, there is no one counting that they gave 500 doses for those slips. There is also no one verifying that only 499 doses were given, but 500 slips completed. 

 

And lets be realistic here as well, how many people drive over the speed limit, contact the police to write them a ticket for breaking the law? It is the same exact argument here. Remember "All those acts are criminal and the culprits treated accordingly." So lets not be all high and mighty that you are innocent of everything because I can guarantee you are not.

Edited April 30, 2021 by BoozinCroozin

[SNJCruisers]

14 hours ago, asalligo said:

My money is still on Carnival just asking the question and trusting that you answered honestly. We shall see. Plus that 5%. That means you can let more than 200 unvaccinated cruisers and around 50 unvaccinated crew. 

As usual, the anti vaccine crowd is assuming that the 5% allowed on board is unvaccinated adults, while others are assuming that the 5% allowed on board will be children.  The CDC said 95% vaccinated.  There was no asterisk stating that you can have as many unvaccinated children on board as you would like just because there is no vaccine for them.  It's 95% vaccinated and 5% unvaccinated.  That 5% would include all on board without the jab, adults that have a legitimate reason and kids.

If the unvaccinated adults have a problem, cruise on Virgin, because their 5% will indeed be adults.

[SNJCruisers]

14 hours ago, dallasdan said:

  What happens if you lose your card or it gets damaged?  Where would you go to get a replacement?

Ebay?

[pe4all]

16 hours ago, dallasdan said:

  What happens if you lose your card or it gets damaged?  Where would you go to get a replacement?

In NY you would go to the place that administered the vaccine.   Contact wherever you got it, and ask there.  This is from the NYS website:

"Regardless of whether or not there is a physical COVID-19 vaccination card, the original shot will still be in the Immunization Registry, at which point the healthcare provider can issue a new card.

If one loses their card after the second dose, a new card can be obtained wherever the shots were administered."

 

[firefly333]

12 minutes ago, pe4all said:

In NY you would go to the place that administered the vaccine.   Contact wherever you got it, and ask there.  This is from the NYS website:

"Regardless of whether or not there is a physical COVID-19 vaccination card, the original shot will still be in the Immunization Registry, at which point the healthcare provider can issue a new card.

If one loses their card after the second dose, a new card can be obtained wherever the shots were administered."

 

I got mine at fairpark. The state fair grounds. Sure would have to have to go way back there, and its closing I think. It's not a neighborhood I would normally go into. Sure hope I dont lose mine.

[FiremedicMike151]

18 hours ago, stellarose said:

it is not a HIPPA violation unless a doctor / nurse / health care provider shares your info.  anyone can ask if you are vaccinated. 

 

Penn State is asking students to upload their vaccine records via the schools health portal.  So I will get a copy from his doctor and upload . 

FYI HIPAA is suspended in a pandemic for information related to the pandemic..

 

[FiremedicMike151]

21 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

I got mine at fairpark. The state fair grounds. Sure would have to have to go way back there, and its closing I think. It's not a neighborhood I would normally go into. Sure hope I dont lose mine.

You don't need to go back.  Contact the agency who administered the shot (probably your county health department) and they'll have records..

[balcony bound]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

I got mine at fairpark. The state fair grounds. Sure would have to have to go way back there, and its closing I think. It's not a neighborhood I would normally go into. Sure hope I dont lose mine.

At a bare minimum, take a photo of it with your phone so you have the information.  Or make a xerox copy.  You at least have the dates and batch numbers for them to refer to if you need to replace it?

[Anyislandwilldo]

Let's start sailing!!!  Can't wait to see what happens with the first few cruises in July!  Praying all goes well!

[Aplmac]

22 hours ago, ledges1 said:

This is good news from the CDC! Now, the cruise lines have to react by obtain staff that is 95% vaccinated. This may still require a phased in approach. Each cruise line will have prioritize which ships and ports come on line as ships are fully staffed. This is positive movement.

 

Here in Barbados, we have had multiple cruise ships

biding their time now, for about a year now!

 

From time to time they enter our Port and come alongside

to re-provision. Presumably, hopefully,

a few vaccines also make their way on board to vaccinate crew

while they (almost) sit idle, awaiting resumption of the cruise industry
- thus making good use of the idle time.

 

Perhaps Cheng can add to this?

[IntrepidFromDC]

8 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

Seriously? Never said I would. I am simply stating facts. Fake vaccine cards have been out since Day 1 of the vaccines. You could buy them for $5 online with actual Pfizer lot numbers on them. Since the cruise lines will not have access to the tracking database, it is simple fact that requiring vaccines is not going to be the answer. In the US, you are protected by HIPAA laws. Your medical information is protected. 

Another case and point on vaccination. You do realize that in most states US citizens are required to provide proof of vaccination for their US citizen children to attend public school but if you are a child of an illegal immigrant the school districts are not permitted to required it nor ask for it? So tell me how this is anywhere remotely different.

I don't think you're analyzing the HIPAA non-disclosure rules correctly.  They would prevent my doctor from telling Carnival that I've been vaccinated, but they would not prevent Carnival from confirming that I've been vaccinated on the federal database if I provide consent, which will surely be required on the new cruise contracts or some other document.

[4hunters]

1 hour ago, Anyislandwilldo said:

Let's start sailing!!!  Can't wait to see what happens with the first few cruises in July!  Praying all goes well!

Agreed!  We finally get this fantastic news about the resumption of cruising in the US and we still have folks arguing about all the same old unknowns.  Pass the popcorn, please... 😁😉

 

Edit:  Spelling

Edited April 30, 2021 by 4hunters

[thesmiths]

1 minute ago, 4hunters said:

  We finally get this fantastic news about the resumption of cruising in the US and we still have folks arguing about fake vaccination cards  

 

It's Insanity I tell you.

 

Came in here looking for positivity AND became depressed with all this BS.

 

Come On September!

 

 

 

[Buckeyefrank100]

15 hours ago, joeyancho said:

Forgery is a felony.  Would you commit a felony in order to cruise?    No?   Why assume others would.  

People commit felonies on a daily basis for a variety of reasons.  That's not going to stop anyone who wants to do it.  The fact is that Israel is rampant with forgeries right now of their vaccination docs.

[TNcruising02]

41 minutes ago, IntrepidFromDC said:

I don't think you're analyzing the HIPAA non-disclosure rules correctly.  They would prevent my doctor from telling Carnival that I've been vaccinated, but they would not prevent Carnival from confirming that I've been vaccinated on the federal database if I provide consent, which will surely be required on the new cruise contracts or some other document.

Exactly.  I don't get the arguments about HIPAA.  The cruise line can have the passenger sign a release for  specific information.  It's not complicated.  People sign releases at their doctor's office so that there can be an exchange of information with the insurance company, etc.

More than likely, if the cruise lines require vaccinations, they will have passengers sign a sworn statement verifying their vaccine information.  This will make it a criminal offense to give false information.  I think that would protect the cruise lines while they try to meet the 95% vaccination number.  

[Buckeyefrank100]

On 4/29/2021 at 11:02 AM, noleguy84 said:

Interesting for sure. I wonder if Carnival will change their stance on the mandatory vaccines. DW and I are fully vaccinated but our kids aren't. I have until the end of May to rebook with the $600 OBC. I think I'll keep the kids on the rebooking but if for some reason they can't go without the vaccine - too bad they can stay with Grandma 😂

I personally would not like to see them require vaccinations however I believe that is within their rights as a business here.  My problem is that we booked in 2019 and have had 4 total cruises cancelled.  We paid for these cruises with gift cards so we are trapped.  My wife and I are not getting the vaccine and will likely not be going on our scheduled cruise in September.  If they require vaccines I believe they should allow a cash refund to us and not just to a gift card.

[firefly333]

9 minutes ago, Buckeyefrank100 said:

If they require vaccines I believe they should allow a cash refund to us and not just to a gift card.

I think that's wishful thinking.

 

Idk why you dont want the vaccine, but I'd suggest booking out as far as you can if you decide to move the booking because carnival requires the vaccine closer in. Idk but sounds like they might have to require the vaccine in order to resume. Carnival also didnt know about covid in 2019 as you didnt. They need to do what is necessary to survive. If theh dont survive your gift cards wouldn't be good either. 

 

They either need a consistent policy or not as a business. Not well idk about covid so I deserve a cash refund for what are probably discounted gift cards. They are struggling enough cash wise. I'm disappointed rcl hasnt started terminal 3 in Galveston and they asked for another extension. I'm going to be upset if they change me again from allure to liberty. Many of us have lost money to covid bookings. I've already lost 2 bookings on allure. I've lost my great rates carnival and rcl keep cancelling me. .. just saying others feel like they lost money due to covid bookings. Each time I rebook with carnival it costs more.. and on and on.

[Anyislandwilldo]

I suppose now that the CDC is allowing cruising to resume in July, the airlines will start to rake us over the coals by increasing airfares.

[cruisingguy007]

48 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Exactly.  I don't get the arguments about HIPAA.  The cruise line can have the passenger sign a release for  specific information.  It's not complicated.  People sign releases at their doctor's office so that there can be an exchange of information with the insurance company, etc.

More than likely, if the cruise lines require vaccinations, they will have passengers sign a sworn statement verifying their vaccine information.  This will make it a criminal offense to give false information.  I think that would protect the cruise lines while they try to meet the 95% vaccination number.  

 

Bingo! The lines simply must "attest" to 95% reported vaccinated passengers. As far as criminal offense, yeah no one ever swears on the bible in court that they will tell the truth and then lies. Perjury isn't as easy to convict on as many think, especially for paper documents. The cruise lines just want a CYOA situation. They don't want to manage some imaginary vaccine data base that has every states vaccine information neatly organized and correlated...lol. People are way overthinking this and overestimating the capabilities of reality on this.  

[Earthworm Jim]

Everyone seems to be making the assumption that the cruise lines, Carnival in this case, will all go the vaccination route to avoid test cruises. But I don't know that that is a given. Richard Fain of Royal said that the vaccination option and the 5 day review of test cruise results gives them two viable routes to cruises by mid-July, so apparently he at least thinks Test cruises are still on the table.

[firefly333]

1 minute ago, Earthworm Jim said:

Everyone seems to be making the assumption that the cruise lines, Carnival in this case, will all go the vaccination route to avoid test cruises. But I don't know that that is a given. Richard Fain of Royal said that the vaccination option and the 5 day review of test cruise results gives them two viable routes to cruises by mid-July, so apparently he at least thinks Test cruises are still on the table.

Time is ticking though. They still need to do the 60 day filing. Maybe they have, but it's already cutting it close to get in a 60 day filing and restart in July. If they decide to add in mock cruises, how much time will this add and for inspections? 

 

I'd sure like to hear from the cruiselines definite plans. 

[JMKreno]

I think what confuses people who call out HIPAA "rights" (which is funny as most people have no idea what the act REALLY protects) and cruising either with "fake cards" or "unvaccinated" realize that with the majority of the passengers and crew vaccinated and the vaccines with their high efficacy rates any breakouts would be rather limited and contact tracing much easier to do. What would happen is that if a breakout were to occur those that end up testing positive while on the cruise would be investigated (which will likely happen if a small outbreak occurs so the cruise lines can understand where their protocols failed) and their medical history REGARDING THE COVID19 VACCINE will likely be determined as this information IS ALLOWED TO BE GATHERED AND SHARED under HIPAA while the pandemic is still considered a health emergency. So yes, most people that "fake" these cards or are willing to go unvaccinated would likely be discovered IF an outbreak occurs. Children under 12 (as the EUA for 12-15 is likely to pass soon) would not be investigated because they can't get vaccinated, so the adults would be looked into. So by "not getting" the vaccine and cruising or "faking" it you MAY get away with it (as most will), it goes back to the IF something happens, you will get discovered.  I see this like drunk driving, sure people do it all the time and don't get caught, but when someone drinks and slams their car into someone else or a tree that their lives get ruined. Remember, the CARD may be flimsy and reproducible, I KNOW FOR A FACT your covid-19 vaccine immunization IS recorded. 

 

Is it worth it? I guess that's up to the individuals who opt to go that route.

 

As for those who are not aware, here are the HIPAA regulations regarding use of PRIVATE HEALTH DATA to investigate breakouts, etc:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Public Health Activities The HIPAA Privacy Rule recognizes the legitimate need for public health authorities and others responsible for ensuring public health and safety to have access to protected health information that is necessary to carry out their public health mission. Therefore, the Privacy Rule permits covered entities to disclose needed protected health information without individual authorization:

• To a public health authority, such as the CDC or a state or local health department, that is authorized by law to collect or receive such information for the purpose of preventing or controlling disease, injury or disability. This would include, for example, the reporting of disease or injury; reporting vital events, such as births or deaths; and conducting public health surveillance, investigations, or interventions. A “public health authority” is an agency or authority of the United States government, a State, a territory, a political subdivision of a State or territory, or Indian tribe that is responsible for public health matters as part of its official mandate, as well as a person or entity acting under a grant of authority from, or under a contract with, a public health agency. See 45 CFR §§ 164.501 and 164.512(b)(1)(i). For example, a covered entity may disclose to the CDC protected health information on an ongoing basis as needed to report all prior and prospective cases of patients exposed to or suspected or confirmed to have COVID-19.

• At the direction of a public health authority, to a foreign government agency that is acting in collaboration with the public health authority. See 45 CFR 164.512(b)(1)(i).

• To persons at risk of contracting or spreading a disease or condition if other law, such as state law, authorizes the covered entity to notify such persons as necessary to prevent or control the spread of the disease or otherwise to carry out public health interventions or investigations. See 45 CFR 164.512(b)(1)(iv).

 

Source: https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/hipaa-and-covid-19-limited-hipaa-waiver-bulletin-508.pdf

Edited April 30, 2021 by JMKreno

[Earthworm Jim]

As an observation, I suspect if only a few cruise lines go the test cruise route instead of the 95% vaccinated route, those cruises would end up with a large percentage of the unvaccinated because that would be their only option. Similarly, some who are vaccinated might prefer not to take the chance on a cruise without the 95% vaccinated limit. So you could end up with some cruises at 95% vaccinated and others at only, say, 50% vaccinated.

 

A cruise line with my hypothetical only 50% vaccinated would really be taking a big chance on an outbreak and all the shutdowns and bad publicity that would result.