Cruising Without a Vaccination

[teacherman]

We were vaccinated at RiteAide.  Before we went there, we received an email asking us to PLEASE sign up for the V-Safe program.  We did so.  It is operated by the CDC.  We received a simple survey (1 minute) each day after our shot for 2 weeks.  It asked us if we were experiencing any side effects.  After the 2 weeks, we receive it once a week.  But we now have a V-Safe account.  If we log in, it shows what type we received, where it was administered, and what dates.  It is easy to access on our mobile phones and show to whomever may be required to confirm our vaccination.  Just like credit card information, event tickets, plane tickets, etc.   We are in Michigan and we were told that all vaccinations are automatically entered into the State Health Dept. data base.  BUT, our children also received vaccines and were never asked to sign up for V-Safe.  Either way, it was voluntary and I am glad we did it.  There is very little privacy left today.  If someone whats to find out about something, and they have the time and expertise to do it, they can.  The safety, to me, is that there is SO MUCH information available,  how do they decide what to go after?

[hallux]

2 hours ago, electro said:

So cruises would be limited to US citizens/residents only.

I suppose it could be verified against the health department records of vaccines in home countries rather than just the CDC in the US...

[complawyer]

2 hours ago, roger001 said:

Happy to say as far as I know we never had one either.  

i have no problem with this either. i'd rather my employer drug test, then have to work with someone stoned out  of their mind.  my son drives for a major  hollywood studio, and he goes through random drug tests periodically. 

 

dont almost all, if not all professional atheletes, have to go through periodic drug testing, prize fighters 

i'm a vietnam veteran, and i subscribe to the theory that anyone who was ever in nam that claims he didnt smoke grass is lying. that however was over 50 years ago.

 

now i believe that if you have nothing to hide, you should correspondingly have nothing to fear if asked to take a drug test.

 

would you want to get into a car with an uber driver that was stoned, or an airplane?  

 

 

[graphicguy]

This is nuts......your home, what you paid for it, and where you live is easily available.  If you or your child want to go to a public school, you (as their parent) have to prove they've been inoculated for a whole host of long ago cured virus'.  You're not allowed on a cruise ship if you have had respiratory or digestive ailments upon arriving at the dock.  You have to show ID, which is publicly traceable, if asked by the police.

 

There are a host of public records available to me if I want to look you up, including your criminal record or your traffic record.

 

To make certain we stay as healthy as possible on a cruise NCL is requiring everyone to provide proof of COVID vaccinations.  

 

Privacy issues.....that's a very weak argument.  Bottom line, unless NCL can ascertain with a high level of certainty, that you have had the COVID vaccine, regardless of your protestations, you're not cruising.  You have to show your Passport to sail in international waters to begin with.  That has more way information about than whether you've had a COVID vaccine or not.

 

To make this easier, there are a number of proposals out there to prove you have been vaccinated against COVID.  The most promising and easiest is a  unique UPC code tied to your name, birthdate, etc.  Scan it and it's a simple "yes" or "no" response.

[complawyer]

Just now, graphicguy said:

This is nuts......your home, what you paid for it, and where you live is easily available.  If you or your child want to go to a public school, you (as their parent) have to prove they've been inoculated for a whole host of long ago cured virus'.  You're not allowed on a cruise ship if you have had respiratory or digestive ailments upon arriving at the dock.  You have to show ID, which is publicly traceable, if asked by the police.

 

There are a host of public records available to me if I want to look you up, including your criminal record or your traffic record.

 

To make certain we stay as healthy as possible on a cruise NCL is requiring everyone to provide proof of COVID vaccinations.  

 

Privacy issues.....that's a very weak argument.  Bottom line, unless NCL can ascertain with a high level of certainty, that you have had the COVID vaccine, regardless of your protestations, you're not cruising.  You have to show your Passport to sail in international waters to begin with.  That has more way information about than whether you've had a COVID vaccine or not.

 

To make this easier, there are a number of proposals out there to prove you have been vaccinated against COVID.  The most promising and easiest is a  unique UPC code tied to your name, birthdate, etc.  Scan it and it's a simple "yes" or "no" response.

with today's easy access to the internet, i believe you can throw  privacy out the window.

 

i looked myself up, and the only thing it didnt show was when i had my 1st (sorry, that's still private)

[graphicguy]

I've "googled" myself, my address, the plate number on my car, etc.  Not much I can't find out.  I agree.  If you've been treated for COVID (and lived), that information is made available to your local Dept of Health.  The excuse of "privacy" as being a legit reason for keeping your vaccination status a secret, it just doesn't hold water.

[vpearlkc]

11 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

I've "googled" myself, my address, the plate number on my car, etc.  Not much I can't find out.  I agree.  If you've been treated for COVID (and lived), that information is made available to your local Dept of Health.  The excuse of "privacy" as being a legit reason for keeping your vaccination status a secret, it just doesn't hold water.

 

[vpearlkc]

All true. I tested positive for covid in November after losing my sense of smell. Was never treated but the local health department called me to find out where I had been etc. based on my positive test taken at a local CVS. Was fully vaccinated in March. Ready for a cruise in 2022.

 

 

[winterbliss]

20 hours ago, complawyer said:

i for one have no problem with this. if someone asks me if ive been vaccinated, i proudly answer yes, my wife, son, daughter, and grandson have all had both their pfizer shots.

 

if it gets me onto the cruse ship with little or no hassles, i'm all for it.

 

i dont care who knows or has my vaccination info.

I'm guessing you have alot of trust in certain individuals and organizations whereas I don't. You have no idea how I hope that my concerns ultimately will end up being not a problem.

[oteixeira]

19 minutes ago, winterbliss said:

I'm guessing you have alot of trust in certain individuals and organizations whereas I don't. You have no idea how I hope that my concerns ultimately will end up being not a problem.

Please tell me what these organizations are going to do with the fact that you have or have not had the vaccine, and it's dates inserted in you, and lot numbers?  I would love to know how that will be exploited.

[mscdivina2016]

1 hour ago, winterbliss said:

I'm guessing you have alot of trust in certain individuals and organizations whereas I don't. You have no idea how I hope that my concerns ultimately will end up being not a problem.

What problems specifically?  I would think the vaccine is the solution.

 

Steve

[winterbliss]

3 hours ago, oteixeira said:

Please tell me what these organizations are going to do with the fact that you have or have not had the vaccine, and it's dates inserted in you, and lot numbers?  I would love to know how that will be exploited.

Today covid, next...another disease or illness, next....whatever those in authority will say has to be noted. Do you believe this is a one time thing? 

[KmomChicago]

 

On 4/30/2021 at 8:56 AM, harkinmr said:

It continues to confound me that people don't trust the timing on the approval for these vaccines.  I've had folks tell me that even 5 or 10 or 20 years is not a long enough time to fully determine the side effects. 🙄  Yet these same folks likely take, or have taken, numerous medications approved by the FDA with a multi-page disclosure sheet on 'possible' side effects, up to and including death, without batting an eye.  SMH.

 

 

These people would be better served to just tell the truth to themselves and us: they don't want to take the vaccine. Nobody is really stupid enough to believe that catching COVID is better than being vaccinated.  They are trying to gaslight themselves and all the rest of us.

 

[KmomChicago]

On 4/30/2021 at 10:27 AM, winterbliss said:

Got it. You see no problem or concerns with injecting 7 billion plus with vaccines with which, I repeat, side effects are as of yet unknown. And you have no problem with dissenting views being censored. I believe in informed consent not coercion.

 

By the way I'm still waiting for public health to promote interventions for good health to enhance our immune systems as much as possible. Still waiting for public health to educate people to have pulse oximeters on hand. Perhaps you think there's nothing to see in that respect as well? All people are hearing on mainstream is..people are sick and dying...get your vaccine so life can get back to normal. 

 

I have dissented with a lot of people like you and that gets censored too. Nobody wants to watch us argue about vaccines. That's not what Cruise Critic is for.  So you are not getting censored because you don't like vaccines, you are getting censored because nobody here cares that you don't like vaccines. It's not relevant to Cruise Critic.

[oteixeira]

48 minutes ago, winterbliss said:

Today covid, next...another disease or illness, next....whatever those in authority will say has to be noted. Do you believe this is a one time thing? 

I believe the government has had access to all of my vaccination data since I was born, as well as my employment data, and my living location.  Add in cell phones and the internet and they know more about me then I do.  If you think the vaccine is your tipping point you are greatly mistaken.  If you choose to not share your data go build a shack in the woods and throw away anything you have that has a digital signature (this includes all communications and payment forms short of cash).  

Enjoy your life without tracking, I would rather live mine knowing they can track me but enjoying it.

BTW, if you are wondering I work for a company that makes software that does data analysis for most of the biggest companies in the world.  Anytime you see a "you bought x, would you like y" or "this is trending" that would be my software.  If you think anything you do is safe (especially on a computer), you are very mistaken.  

[hallux]

@oteixeirathank you!

 

There's a podcast I listen to that has a regular contributor that looks into some things related to privacy.  His bottom line - you have a device in your pocket that knows SOOO much about you, including where you go and how long you spend there.

 

It's not like they are asking for your complete medical record, including if you've had bypass surgery, had (or have) cancer, or any number of illnesses or issues that are only an issue for YOU.  They are asking to simply know if you're protected against an AIRBORNE ILLNESS that, if you are not, could cause harm to others. 

 

The CDC, a part of the federal government, is issuing the minimum-vaccinated standard for any particular sailing and the cruise line has to prove they have met that standard.  The CDC already knows if you've been vaccinated.  Maybe future ticket contracts include a medical disclosure agreement specifically for the purposes of checking with the CDC for COVID vaccine status (they CAN be written to that level of detail), would that suffice?

[oteixeira]

I think they can ask in the pre-boarding information, that you fill from your computer, for your vaccine information.  I am wondering if doing that would even get around the Florida governor's order, since it is not being asked IN Florida per say.

One thing I forgot to mention @winterbliss I hope your car is old, because ALL cars "phone home" now.  I have proof of it, and you would not even BELIEVE what they collect.  Each transaction from the car to the manufacture has over 1000 single points of data.  Think about 1000 things a car can be telling about itself, it is a lot more then oil pressure let me tell you.

 

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, winterbliss said:

Today covid, next...another disease or illness, next....whatever those in authority will say has to be noted. Do you believe this is a one time thing? 

Covid is a 100 year global pandemic. I would imagine I'm going to be long gone before the next global pandemic.

[Stallion]

2 hours ago, oteixeira said:

I think they can ask in the pre-boarding information, that you fill from your computer, for your vaccine information.  I am wondering if doing that would even get around the Florida governor's order, since it is not being asked IN Florida per say.

One thing I forgot to mention @winterbliss I hope your car is old, because ALL cars "phone home" now.  I have proof of it, and you would not even BELIEVE what they collect.  Each transaction from the car to the manufacture has over 1000 single points of data.  Think about 1000 things a car can be telling about itself, it is a lot more then oil pressure let me tell you.

 

Shoot my car hasn't gone anywhere incriminating in a year

[SpainAlien]

I wonder if instead of a vaccine card which could be a fake they could just give you an antibody test at the port? That would solve that problem and would be no less difficult than the antigen test they are going to give you

Edited May 3, 2021 by SpainAlien

[DCGuy64]

15 hours ago, oteixeira said:

I believe the government has had access to all of my vaccination data since I was born, as well as my employment data, and my living location.  Add in cell phones and the internet and they know more about me then I do.  If you think the vaccine is your tipping point you are greatly mistaken.  If you choose to not share your data go build a shack in the woods and throw away anything you have that has a digital signature (this includes all communications and payment forms short of cash).  

Enjoy your life without tracking, I would rather live mine knowing they can track me but enjoying it.

BTW, if you are wondering I work for a company that makes software that does data analysis for most of the biggest companies in the world.  Anytime you see a "you bought x, would you like y" or "this is trending" that would be my software.  If you think anything you do is safe (especially on a computer), you are very mistaken.  

All of which explains why one of my closest friends who is a software consultant has ZERO presence on ANY social media. He says "they already know too much about me."

[oteixeira]

19 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

All of which explains why one of my closest friends who is a software consultant has ZERO presence on ANY social media. He says "they already know too much about me."

So true.  Think about this, how are these "free" services making all the money they do?  HINT:  It's not in advertising (some is here but it is a small percentage).  It's in selling data.

[graphicguy]

17 hours ago, winterbliss said:

Today covid, next...another disease or illness, next....whatever those in authority will say has to be noted. Do you believe this is a one time thing? 

In all frankness, if you're that paranoid about the vaccine, or paranoid about any information about you getting the vaccine, do yourself and other fellow cruisers a favor and don't cruise.  Not trying to be dismissive, but at some point, that level of paranoia  begins to rule your life, and that ain't good..  Ask those folks in India if they're paranoid about getting the vaccine.  

 

 

[graphicguy]

I was a DoD contractor with a "SECRET" (not TOP SECRET) clearance (retired).  Random drug checks were the norm.  My first cousin is in the Secret Service.  Granted, we're first cousins, but they interviewed me for hours and required me to submit to lie detector tests and extensive background checks as a condition for my cousin to join and me to get clearance.  It seems I got an anal probe regarding my personal life, going all the way back to high school (j/k....kinda).  

 

Do I think there's some nefarious agency or group looking to use my information for ill-intent?  That's humorous. The U.S. government doesn't care about your personal life if you aren't working for the government.  The I.R.S. might care if you run afoul of them.  Or, if you have a felony, I wouldn't necessarily  put myself near illegal activities.  Aside from that, all you have to do is to look at elected officials to see how much the government cares about your background.

 

Let me put it succinctly, the gov't doesn't care, unless you don't pay your taxes.  And even there, as we've seen, if you make it difficult to trace any tax malfeasance, it will take them forever to actually catch you.

 

Aside from that, don't threaten, hurt, or kill anyone, and you'll be OK.  Your medical records are of zero interest to them, unless you're spreading diseases.

[Laszlo]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

In all frankness, if you're that paranoid about the vaccine, or paranoid about any information about you getting the vaccine, do yourself and other fellow cruisers a favor and don't cruise.  Not trying to be dismissive, but at some point, that level of paranoia  begins to rule your life, and that ain't good..  Ask those folks in India if they're paranoid about getting the vaccine.  

 

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

👍