Do you think there will be a time soon when no vaccine is required to cruise?

[lenquixote66]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

MSC doing well? 
https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/cruise-ship-with-covid-positive-passenger-denied-entry-to-malta.877595?fbclid=IwAR13u57px57O0fZ_1cFHk8rwcOAGehN0gya59suK8gWmNXnSeUDEv-WLGWc#.YL5JI_r7B-4.facebook

 

Time for folks to “put up or shut up.” Please boycott MSC and RCCL and any other line that backs down from the vaccine requirement.

I agree 

[navybankerteacher]

5 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

The more I've learned about law, the more I've learned how it can be more political vs black and white. We can pick what we want to enforce. We can interpret things in ways that we want. If it all was that easy, we would have no need for higher courts.

 

Your matter of fact argument implies a private business has more autonomy to mandate vaccines vs a state governor. We'll see how that pans out. 

In this context, a private business certainly does have “more autonomy”:    a carrier imposing terms and conditions is not mandating vaccines for anyone - they are simply saying: “no shot, no sail”;  while the state governor in question seems to think that he has the right to tell a cruise line how they must function.  I would say that he has stepped past his depth.

[Joebucks]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

In this context, a private business certainly does have “more autonomy”:    a carrier imposing terms and conditions is not mandating vaccines for anyone - they are simply saying: “no shot, no sail”;  while the state governor in question seems to think that he has the right to tell a cruise line how they must function.  I would say that he has stepped past his depth.

 

To be fair, using that same argument, the FL governor isn't mandating anything. He is simply saying "forced shot, no Florida sail". 

[broberts]

2 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

To be fair, using that same argument, the FL governor isn't mandating anything. He is simply saying "forced shot, no Florida sail". 

 

No so. He is saying a business cannot ask. It must remain ignorant of the situation.

[mom says]

4 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

To be fair, using that same argument, the FL governor isn't mandating anything. He is simply saying "forced shot, no Florida sail". 

No one is being forced to get the shot. Its the customer's  choice.  No shoes, no service. The governor is a grandstanding ...( nope, can't say what i think of that person on this forum).

Edited June 9, 2021 by mom says

[capriccio]

12 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

MSC doing well? 
https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/cruise-ship-with-covid-positive-passenger-denied-entry-to-malta.877595?fbclid=IwAR13u57px57O0fZ_1cFHk8rwcOAGehN0gya59suK8gWmNXnSeUDEv-WLGWc#.YL5JI_r7B-4.facebook

 

Time for folks to “put up or shut up.” Please boycott MSC and RCCL and any other line that backs down from the vaccine requirement.

MSC Virtuosa, due to port in Greenock, Scotland and embark some passengers today was denied entry and spent a second day in Liverpool.  https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsliverpool/cruise-ship-msc-virtuosa-stays-overnight-in-liverpool-after-being-told-not-to-dock-in-scotland/ar-AAKQmEq

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, capriccio said:

MSC Virtuosa, due to port in Greenock, Scotland and embark some passengers today was denied entry and spent a second day in Liverpool.  https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsliverpool/cruise-ship-msc-virtuosa-stays-overnight-in-liverpool-after-being-told-not-to-dock-in-scotland/ar-AAKQmEq

MSC’s attitude and practices regarding Covid restrictions (or lack of them as regards vaccine) are endangering an entire industry. And now it is reported that RCCL has decided not to require vaccination as well.

What a shame of short-sightedness. Hopefully, enough folks will boycott them which, in turn, will bolster bookings for those lines that maintain a vaccine requirement. 

[Honolulu Blue]

7 hours ago, capriccio said:

MSC Virtuosa, due to port in Greenock, Scotland and embark some passengers today was denied entry and spent a second day in Liverpool.  https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsliverpool/cruise-ship-msc-virtuosa-stays-overnight-in-liverpool-after-being-told-not-to-dock-in-scotland/ar-AAKQmEq

 

Quoting the article (thanks for it):

 

Joanne Dooey, president of The Scottish Passenger Agents’ Association (SPAA), the professional body for travel agents and the travel sector in Scotland said: “We’re now facing the situation where Scottish passengers who joined the cruise in Liverpool are barred from setting foot in their own country."

 

I'll add this to the Weird Things About Cruising During a Global Pandemic.  It will make exhibit #4114.

[capriccio]

On 6/8/2021 at 10:34 AM, Flatbush Flyer said:

MSC doing well? 
https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/cruise-ship-with-covid-positive-passenger-denied-entry-to-malta.877595?fbclid=IwAR13u57px57O0fZ_1cFHk8rwcOAGehN0gya59suK8gWmNXnSeUDEv-WLGWc#.YL5JI_r7B-4.facebook

 

Time for folks to “put up or shut up.” Please boycott MSC and RCCL and any other line that backs down from the vaccine requirement.

Now being reported it was 2 passengers both asymptomatic so I don't know if that is in addition to the one who reported feeling unwell in your posting or additional cases : https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/cruise-passengers-test-positive-for-covid-19-in-italy/ar-AAKSl80

 

The pair were traveling on the MSC Seaside cruise ship and disembarked with their families in Syracuse, Sicily, on Tuesday, MSC told CNN on Wednesday. The two passengers were asymptomatic.

 

"Our protocol is working, if not on board those two people would still be freely circulating," said MSC spokesperson Michele Curatolo.

 

The company has a contigency plan for each port of call, added Cuartolo, which meant that a "protective transfer was immediately activated" for the two passengers who tested positive.

[pris993]

I hope so!!  Besides cruising we want to make a trip to Israel... right now can't go, restrictions persist even with vaccination.  We will wait till, we no longer need to get tested before and after flying and are no longer required to get permission to fly into the country 14 days in advance of our flight.  Way to much required to make us want to even try to go.  Masks are the least of the problems. 

[SuiteTraveler]

RCCL is a family cruise line and kids under 12 cannot get vaccinated yet.  So that is probably why they have decided to agree to carry unvaccinated guests.  Families with children make up a large segment of their market and their ships are loaded with things for children to do.  At the same time they are urging those who can to get vaccinated prior to sailing.  

 

I'm vaccinated, so I don't care if unvaccinated are on the ship per se.  Among those vaccinated there have only been a tiny number of breakthrough cases - .05 of 1 percent - so I don't feel terribly concerned I will catch Covid.  But if someone were to be diagnosed with Covid onboard my ship,  I would want to know how the cruise line would handle that and what the ramifications would be for all the other passengers onboard BEFORE I was willing to cruise again.  I would hate to go on a cruise and someone gets diagnosed morning of Day 2 and all ports are then cancelled for everyone and it becomes a weeklong or longer cruise to nowhere.   I think to make me feel comfortable, the cruise lines need to publish information about exactly how this type of situation would be handled.  Would the person who tested positive be debarked immediately along with their cabin mates and sent to quarantine?  Would they do contact tracing among the passengers to determine if the people who were near the person who tested positive were vaccinated or not and if not, would those people be debarked for quarantine as well or would we have to miss all subsequent ports?  

[ldubs]

On 6/10/2021 at 3:31 PM, SuiteTraveler said:

 

I'm vaccinated, so I don't care if unvaccinated are on the ship per se.  Among those vaccinated there have only been a tiny number of breakthrough cases - .05 of 1 percent - so I don't feel terribly concerned I will catch Covid.  

 

That is the head scratcher when I read about the two cases on the fully vaccinated Celebrity cruise that is all over the news.   If breakthrough cases represent .05% then I agree, the odds are incredibly low that a vaccinated person would catch COVID.   Those two vaccinated Celebrity passengers who tested positive must have been incredibly unlucky.  It is almost unbelievable.     

[SuiteTraveler]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

That is the head scratcher when I read about the two cases on the fully vaccinated Celebrity cruise that is all over the news.   If breakthrough cases represent .05% then I agree, the odds are incredibly low that a vaccinated person would catch COVID.   Those two vaccinated Celebrity passengers who tested positive must have been incredibly unlucky.  It is almost unbelievable.     

"Almost unbelievable."  Exactly.  What needs to be exposed here is when did they get vaccinated, which vaccine and was the test that said they had Covid-19 accurate or not?  What happens if they were put off the ship and into quarantine due to a positive test but it turns out they were negative the whole time?

[Vacationdreamer<><]

Hey OP - I'm not going to read all the posts, but I do think it won't be that long before unvaccinated passengers had a lot of options. I'd say definitely within 12 months, but maybe sooner.  
♥

I don't have links or research, but you weren't asking for it.  😉

 

Be well!

[CruiserBruce]

7 hours ago, SuiteTraveler said:

"Almost unbelievable."  Exactly.  What needs to be exposed here is when did they get vaccinated, which vaccine and was the test that said they had Covid-19 accurate or not?  What happens if they were put off the ship and into quarantine due to a positive test but it turns out they were negative the whole time?

They did a second, confirming test.

[Anita Latte]

10 hours ago, ldubs said:

It is almost unbelievable.     

 

I disagree. There are reports of how the immune response to the vaccines differs based on gender, age, weight, medications, etc. The lack of immune response is especially notable with particular immune system suppression drugs such that people with organ transplants take etc, but those people should be aware of that. However, other factors, especially gender, age, and weight aren’t widely talked about in specific. A study of the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine in obese people showed that the antibody levels were less than normal weight individuals but as the Cleveland Clinic FAQ pages say, “should be” enough to provide protection. I had read somewhere about studying using larger first and second doses and also studying a third normal sized dose to see about increased immune response. Just one example, and I don’t know the particulars of the two individuals, but I don’t find it unbelievable at all.

 

Also...isn’t the vaccine supposed to help with symptomatic COVID? There are still questions regarding what viral load the vaccinated carry. So an asymptomatic case of COVID in the vaccinated would still mean that the vaccine was working as it should. Just like the baseball coaches.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Anita Latte

[Anita Latte]

8 hours ago, SuiteTraveler said:

"Almost unbelievable."  Exactly.  What needs to be exposed here is when did they get vaccinated, which vaccine...

 

What I think would be most helpful would be to mark the strain of virus. I wonder if they were infected with the Delta variant that is causing surges in cases in areas of the UK, or some other variant. 

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, Anita Latte said:

 

What I think would be most helpful would be to mark the strain of virus. I wonder if they were infected with the Delta variant that is causing surges in cases in areas of the UK, or some other variant. 

Ah, an interesting point that no one else seems to have thought of.

 

And if it was one of the newer variants that seem to be cropping up, it would be a favorable point that no one in close contact tested positive. It would mean the vaccine is at least working against the variant.

[SuiteTraveler]

6 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

They did a second, confirming test.

Antigen tests are not that reliable.

 

These are the results of antigen tests for asymptomatic patients from one study:

"In people with no symptoms of COVID-19 the number of confirmed cases is expected to be much lower than in people with symptoms. Using summary results for SD Biosensor STANDARD Q in a bigger population of 10,000 people with no symptoms, where 50 (0.5%) of them really had COVID-19:

- 125 people would test positive for COVID-19. Of these, 90 people (72%) would not have COVID-19 (false positive result).

- 9,875 people would test negative for COVID-19. Of these, 15 people (0.2%) would actually have COVID-19 (false negative result)."

 

Breakthrough cases have often been people who caught Covid-19 between the first and second shot or people who were on immunosuppressive medication that partially inactivated the vaccine. That's why breakthrough cases are only .01 of 1% of the vaccinated.  These cases are quite rare.

 

 

[CruiserBruce]

2 minutes ago, SuiteTraveler said:

Antigen tests are not that reliable.

 

These are the results of antigen tests for asymptomatic patients from one study:

"In people with no symptoms of COVID-19 the number of confirmed cases is expected to be much lower than in people with symptoms. Using summary results for SD Biosensor STANDARD Q in a bigger population of 10,000 people with no symptoms, where 50 (0.5%) of them really had COVID-19:

- 125 people would test positive for COVID-19. Of these, 90 people (72%) would not have COVID-19 (false positive result).

- 9,875 people would test negative for COVID-19. Of these, 15 people (0.2%) would actually have COVID-19 (false negative result)."

 

Breakthrough cases have often been people who caught Covid-19 between the first and second shot or people who were on immunosuppressive medication that partially inactivated the vaccine. That's why breakthrough cases are only .01 of 1% of the vaccinated.  These cases are quite rare.

 

 

Do you know they did an antigen test?

[Anita Latte]

It appears that the mass testing for reentry were antigen tests. Then the PCR tests were administered to confirm the positives as well as being administered to the close contacts. The close contacts were told to quarantine in their cabins while awaiting their PCR test results.

[pris993]

18 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

That is the head scratcher when I read about the two cases on the fully vaccinated Celebrity cruise that is all over the news.   If breakthrough cases represent .05% then I agree, the odds are incredibly low that a vaccinated person would catch COVID.   Those two vaccinated Celebrity passengers who tested positive must have been incredibly unlucky.  It is almost unbelievable.     

I heard these same odds on break thru cases.  I am vaccinated, I too am not concerned.  I was actually on one of the  last Princess cruises on the Grand, got off 2/17/20.  It was reported that two passengers who were on the ship, traveling in a larger group got off the ship and sough medical care after leaving the ship.  They had Covid 19, never heard that anyone else got it.  At the time Princess contacted us, we had been home 2 weeks already, never got tested, never got any symptoms.  Now with vaccine, I am not concerned at all. 

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, pris993 said:

I heard these same odds on break thru cases.  I am vaccinated, I too am not concerned.  I was actually on one of the  last Princess cruises on the Grand, got off 2/17/20.  It was reported that two passengers who were on the ship, traveling in a larger group got off the ship and sough medical care after leaving the ship.  They had Covid 19, never heard that anyone else got it.  At the time Princess contacted us, we had been home 2 weeks already, never got tested, never got any symptoms.  Now with vaccine, I am not concerned at all. 

 

Sounds like you dodged a potential bullet.  We were on the Quantum round trip Singapore during Feb 2020.  We were sitting in our pre-cruise hotel lobby when we received an email from RCI saying anyone traveling from or through China would not be allowed to board.  Our group was OK, but one close friend had to change a return home flight that had a stopover in Hong Kong.   

[ldubs]

13 hours ago, Anita Latte said:

 

I disagree. There are reports of how the immune response to the vaccines differs based on gender, age, weight, medications, etc. The lack of immune response is especially notable with particular immune system suppression drugs such that people with organ transplants take etc, but those people should be aware of that. However, other factors, especially gender, age, and weight aren’t widely talked about in specific. A study of the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine in obese people showed that the antibody levels were less than normal weight individuals but as the Cleveland Clinic FAQ pages say, “should be” enough to provide protection. I had read somewhere about studying using larger first and second doses and also studying a third normal sized dose to see about increased immune response. Just one example, and I don’t know the particulars of the two individuals, but I don’t find it unbelievable at all.

 

Also...isn’t the vaccine supposed to help with symptomatic COVID? There are still questions regarding what viral load the vaccinated carry. So an asymptomatic case of COVID in the vaccinated would still mean that the vaccine was working as it should. Just like the baseball coaches.

 

Sure, "not necessarily" will usually always apply.  Perhaps those two individuals were in one of the higher risk groups you mentioned.  More details would be useful.    

[ldubs]

21 hours ago, SuiteTraveler said:

"Almost unbelievable."  Exactly.  What needs to be exposed here is when did they get vaccinated, which vaccine and was the test that said they had Covid-19 accurate or not?  What happens if they were put off the ship and into quarantine due to a positive test but it turns out they were negative the whole time?

 

I think if someone were put off the ship because of positive tests and it turns out they were in fact negative, it would be a bummer for them.   I don't know what else could happen.  

 

14 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

They did a second, confirming test.

 

I read that about the second test also.   From what I read, the CDC is collecting information on all of the variables that come into play with these breakthrough cases.   Hopefully they will share some findings, if they haven't already.