CELEBRITY IS NOW THE BELLWETHER

[Spif Barwunkel]

Celebrity is now the bellwether. By pushing forward in a regulatory manner with modified cruises and vaccine/testing protocols, X has taken the lead in an endeavor to once again return to a cruising norm. It’s a bold move to be first away from the dock, but sooner or later someone had to do it.

 

It was not a given that cruises would go off without a hitch. Indeed, the first did not. Two cases of Covid19 ensures continued speculation about methods of operation, enforcement of regulations and perhaps most of all, veracity among friends.

 

So what new precautions, if any, should be taken prior to subsequent X summer sailings in the Caribbean? I can’t think of any. I am confident that Celebrity did everything it could to make sure it’s passengers boarded a “clean” ship. Question is, are folks on subsequent cruises confident that their vacation will be without incident? Should we relegate ourselves to the fact that C19 has become just another nuisance we must endure from now on, kind of like colds and influenza and HIV. Accepting that, will those who are vaccinated continue to cruise with those who are not, secure in the fact that they are protected from "serious" infection?

 

Celebrity has given us all the opportunity to sail or watch and see. We should appreciate the opportunity to do one or the other. It is up to us to take advantage of this opportunity in the safest way possible. Shall we move forward, with X leading the way?

Edited June 11, 2021 by Spif Barwunkel

[cbfb]

I would absolutely cruise with unvaccinated people once I know for sure that the ship will be allowed to dock and the healthy passengers will not have to quarantine. I believe this will not happen until the world is vaccinated. I am fully vaccinated so I am not worried about getting covid for health reasons but more the inconvenience. 

[Fouremco]

You might be a few days early with this thread, at least for some of us. I'd like to see more detailed information on events on the Millennium before deciding, although it certainly appears so far that things have been handled well aboard.

[WestLakeGirl]

Colds might be a nuisance but the flu and HIV are still deadly for thousands.  Your post doesn’t ring true, Spif

Edited June 11, 2021 by WestLakeGirl

[Spif Barwunkel]

7 minutes ago, WestLakeGirl said:

Colds might be a nuisance but the flu and HIV are still deadly for thousands.  Your post doesn’t ring true, Spif

You are absolutely right, WLG. But, one is not required to show proof of not having the flu or HIV in order to board a ship. I am sure that in my 40 years of cruising I have rubbed shoulders with folks unfortunate enough to have one or the other. Never thought a thing about it, actually.

[Spif Barwunkel]

28 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

You might be a few days early with this thread, at least for some of us. I'd like to see more detailed information on events on the Millennium before deciding, although it certainly appears so far that things have been handled well aboard.

I hear ya Fouremco. As you know, their are folks who's reaction is immediate and those who give it awhile. I think that this thread is relevant to  both.   

[SunNFunCruzer]

42 minutes ago, cbfb said:

I would absolutely cruise with unvaccinated people once I know for sure that the ship will be allowed to dock and the healthy passengers will not have to quarantine. I believe this will not happen until the world is vaccinated.

 

 

In addition to the fact that children cannot be vaccinated and that there have been breakthrough cases and, in some much older populations, breakthrough cases leading to deaths, I believe that the risk to those vaccinated is low, but not zero. The larger concern is the risk to mankind.

 

Americans have access to the vaccine and have the luxury of deciding when and where to be vaccinated, while many in the developing world are literally dying while they wait for the opportunity to be vaccinated.  Many of the destinations cruiseships travel to are relatively poor with antiquated medical facilities.  Why would the governments of these places allow unvaccinated cruisers to potentially infect their populations?  So, even if fellow vaccinated-cruisers are safe from unvaccinated cruisers, as the quote above states, until the rest of the world (or, at least the destinations where ships dock/anchor), is vaccinated, I don't see full resumption of cruising.

Edited June 11, 2021 by SunNFunCruzer

[cbfb]

2 minutes ago, SunNFunCruzer said:

 

 

In addition to the fact that children cannot be vaccinated and that there have been breakthrough cases and, in some much older populations, breakthrough cases leading to deaths, I believe that the risk to those vaccinated is low, but not zero. The larger concern is the risk to mankind.

 

Americans have access to the vaccine and have the luxury of deciding when and where to be vaccinated, while many in the developing world are literally dying while the wait for the opportunity to be vaccinated.  Many of the destinations cruiseships travel to are relatively poor with antiquated medical facilities.  Why would the governments of these places allow unvaccinated cruisers to potentially infect their populations?  So, even if fellow vaccinated-cruisers are safe from unvaccinated cruisers, as the quote above states, until the rest of the world (or, at least the destinations where ships dock/anchor), is vaccinated, I don't see full resumption of cruising.

Exactly! I pray  people who can be vaccinated will decide to. It feels like we will never move on until that happens. 

[SunNFunCruzer]

7 minutes ago, cbfb said:

Exactly! I pray  people who can be vaccinated will decide to. It feels like we will never move on until that happens. 

 

People need to take the virus seriously and understand that until it is under control globally, we will have problems in the US.  Last year, on February 8th, 2020 on my Roll Call for the Celebrity Silhouette I posted warnings about the virus in China and for the next 6 weeks I continued to post warnings throughout these Forums and many of my posts were removed and I was called a Troll and deemed "disruptive" and suspended a number of times. Suspended for sharing "facts" that were deemed negative or harmful to the cruiselines and the cruise industry.  What is, and was, needed is transparency. Downplaying the danger and risk will just prolong the pandemic. Americans are truly among some of the luckiest/most fortunate people in the world.  

 

This is what I wrote on February 8, 2020, I tried to quote it but since Roll Calls are closed, it didn't work:

 

"In my opinion, the US media is actually downplaying the crisis.  China is extremely concerned about reputation and National Economy. They have literally shut down a number of highly populated cities and have forbid many factories from reopening after the Chinese New Year b/c many workers are quarantined/sheltered in their homes for safety. China is running out of medical supplies and their medical professionals are literally exhausted and a few well-known doctors have died from the virus (both old, in their 60's and young in their 30's).

 

I am not being an alarmist. I am alarmed.  Look for information from citizens and journalists on the ground in China for the most accurate updates."

[cruisestitch]

What an odd thing for the OP to suggest that HIV-aids is a nuisance, and to put it in the same category as Covid-19.  As far as I know it is not transmittable inadvertently; it takes far more than a sneeze to pass it on to someone, and the results can hardly be classified as a nuisance.

[Spif Barwunkel]

2 hours ago, cruisestitch said:

What an odd thing for the OP to suggest that HIV-aids is a nuisance, and to put it in the same category as Covid-19.  As far as I know it is not transmittable inadvertently; it takes far more than a sneeze to pass it on to someone, and the results can hardly be classified as a nuisance.

Years ago when HIV was at the forefront and infections/deaths were many because of ignorance of treatment, was it not a concern that close contact (non sexual) with an infected individual could result in a one-to-one spread? Again, thanks to science and the bright individuals who developed a viable treatment, that virus is under control and those who live with HIV, for the most part, live fairly normal lives. I do not diminish the severity of HIV. Because we have become much smarter about it, it has become an accepted part of life. And yes, C19 can be transmitted inadvertently just as we initially thought about HIV. The analogy is to propose the idea that thanks to science and the bright individuals who developed a viable treatment, C19 will become an accepted part of life that we will learn to live with. A nuisance and at times an inconvenience, because of the ignorance that will continue to prevail.          

[SOCACRUISEGUY]

5 hours ago, WestLakeGirl said:

Colds might be a nuisance but the flu and HIV are still deadly for thousands.  Your post doesn’t ring true, Spif

That is a really uninformed, offensive statement. You aren’t going to contract HIV by standing next to someone unmasked for an extended period of time. 

[deliver42]

The big difference between what X is doing as opposed to MSC is the mask difference. With MSC, vaccines aren't required, but everyone has to wear a mask. I don't know the exact locations. With X, if you're vaccinated, masks are only required in close quarters. If I'm wrong on either of these, please correct me. Thank you

[Spif Barwunkel]

Everyone is aware of MSC cruising in Europe, TUI as well. Without diminishing the importance of those cruises, they are restricted to European residents. Celebrity's cruising in the Caribbean is open to non-US residents just as future cruising from the US by all carriers will be. 

 

This return to cruising is certainly not a competition between countries or cruise lines. At least I hope not. Things tend to get overlooked sometimes when the focus is not where it should be. Celebrity as the bellwether reflects that company's total effort to include everyone in it's return to cruising.

[TeeRick]

Spif- minor point to your original post which I agree with anyway.  Maybe it is semantics.  But the ship had two positive tests for the virus.  In vaccinated individuals.  They were asymptomatic.  They were not characterized as two cases of Covid-19 which implies the actual disease.  Nit-picking?  Sorry.   But the more we make a big deal out of positive tests in vaccinated people, the farther away we are to the return to normalcy.  Cruises will have positive tests going forward even on fully vaccinated ships.  Procedures are in place.  And port agreements.  For those unvaccinated and sailing on certain ships with less restrictions than Celebrity,  hopefully they will not be a case to test the operations for actual symptomatic Covid on board. But I fear that it is just a matter of time.  

[Spif Barwunkel]

27 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Spif- minor point to your original post which I agree with anyway.  Maybe it is semantics.  But the ship had two positive tests for the virus.  In vaccinated individuals.  They were asymptomatic.  They were not characterized as two cases of Covid-19 which implies the actual disease.  Nit-picking?  Sorry.   But the more we make a big deal out of positive tests in vaccinated people, the farther away we are to the return to normalcy.  Cruises will have positive tests going forward even on fully vaccinated ships.  Procedures are in place.  And port agreements.  For those unvaccinated and sailing on certain ships with less restrictions than Celebrity,  hopefully they will not be a case to test the operations for actual symptomatic Covid on board. But I fear that it is just a matter of time.  

Could not agree with you more, TR. The C19 topic remains a sensitive one at best, particularly in the cruising world. Any incident will elicit varied concerns and comments. Most likely, the granularity of those concerns and comments will only proliferate additional observations. To your point, which is spot on, "the more we make a big deal out of positive tests in vaccinated people, the farther away we are to the return to normalcy." In your words, my point exactly. 

[marieps]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

Spif- minor point to your original post which I agree with anyway.  Maybe it is semantics.  But the ship had two positive tests for the virus.  In vaccinated individuals.  They were asymptomatic.  They were not characterized as two cases of Covid-19 which implies the actual disease.  Nit-picking?  Sorry.   But the more we make a big deal out of positive tests in vaccinated people, the farther away we are to the return to normalcy.  Cruises will have positive tests going forward even on fully vaccinated ships.  Procedures are in place.  And port agreements.  For those unvaccinated and sailing on certain ships with less restrictions than Celebrity,  hopefully they will not be a case to test the operations for actual symptomatic Covid on board. But I fear that it is just a matter of time.  

Totally agree.  The powers that be in media, government  and elsewhere have falsely put forth the notion that a positive test equates to a "case" of COVID.  We always hears of the number of "cases," not positives.  "Case" conjures up images of a respirator and a death bed.  IMO the language has helped to insight fear, intended or not. 

[graphicguy]

Finally able to check in for my July 31 cruise on the Edge.  Pretty simple to see what Celebrity is doing regarding vaccines.  They ask you during on line check in whether you agree to biometric questions or checkin procedures (paraphrasing as I don't recall the actual verbiage).  You answer "yes" and you go to the next section (which is the health questionnaire taken at the port).  

 

Not sure what happens if you say no.  I'll assume you get put into the 5% "unvaccinated" pile and hope/pray you are included to sail with the mask and additional testing protocols.

[TeeRick]

30 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Finally able to check in for my July 31 cruise on the Edge.  Pretty simple to see what Celebrity is doing regarding vaccines.  They ask you during on line check in whether you agree to biometric questions or checkin procedures (paraphrasing as I don't recall the actual verbiage).  You answer "yes" and you go to the next section (which is the health questionnaire taken at the port).  

 

Not sure what happens if you say no.  I'll assume you get put into the 5% "unvaccinated" pile and hope/pray you are included to sail with the mask and additional testing protocols.

If you say No you are put in the corner with a Dunce Hat.