HOLLAND AMERICA LINE CRUISE CONTRACT

[Mary229]

13 minutes ago, Crazy For Cats said:

.  I actually am not a fan of HAL sharing health information with third parties.

The cruise lines, unlike other businesses, have always been required by law to inform the public health authorities of a variety of diseases including legionnaires and norovirus, now we add covid.  This requirement has led to the public misconception that cruise ships are particularly virulent places.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Mary229

[Crazy For Cats]

55 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

The cruise lines, unlike other businesses, have always been required by law to inform the public health authorities of a variety of diseases including legionnaires and norovirus, now we add covid.  This requirement has led to the public misconception that cruise ships are particularly virulent places.

As I stated I don’t have a problem with government agencies.  It’s the third parties that I would want more details.  Third party could be google since they are now gathering health information.

[zgscl]

1 hour ago, Crazy For Cats said:

I find this thread interesting.  In the past I would make final payment before penalties kicked in and could see the contract.  If something in the contract didn’t sit right with me I could cancel without penalty.  We booked Alaska based on HAL’s covid policy posted on their web site along with public information provided by them in interviews with Gus.  I actually am not a fan of HAL sharing health information with third parties.  I’m certainly ok sharing it with medical staff and government agencies.  We will most likely accept the terms for this cruise but would like to know our options if we decide that the terms are unacceptable.

 

I agree this will be interesting. I would think that you could make a case for a refund if you found the new terms unacceptable, however I am not a lawyer and whether or not they will offer one (or FCC) or make you fight for it is a totally different question. 

[Hlitner]

7 hours ago, mightycruisequeen said:

I don't know how HAL can include the requirement to show vax records, since Florida and the CDC are still at an impasse:     

 

So let’s assume that many ports will only allow ships that have 100% vaccinated.  If a ship does not comply then no ports.

 

 

[mightycruisequeen]

10 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

So let’s assume that many ports will only allow ships that have 100% vaccinated.  If a ship does not comply then no ports.

 

 

That would be a pickle, wouldn't it?

[golfbagger]

Interesting thread!  I thought that we had completed "on line check in" for our Feb.2022,  NS  cruise.  So there will be a re-do, with Vaccine "attestation" to get around Florida law?  Wonder if I should wait until final payment time to do this?  

We do wish to have a 95% vaccinated experience, and that the debate will end by 2022.🤔

[Tennessee Titan]

17 hours ago, boze9999 said:

The financial, medical and civil penalties, not only with the cruise line, but with all governing authorities for lying and perjury are not worth falsifying one's vaccination status.......

For most people, but some don't feel that way (NOT ME!).

[tamsno]

I have back to back Rotterdam Oct 10 and Oct 20, 2021, cruises with separate booking numbers and both allow check in except for the contract which doesn't show at all.  It states it is being worked on and will let us know when it is ready.  With all the cancellations and reworking of bookings, rules and regs etc. it could be quite some time.   Hopefully all will be a go.

[ekkc10753]

Frankly I hope the ships are 100% vaccinated. I wish there were a way to ensure that. Someone suggested getting around DeSantis by having the regular cruise price and a special cruise price for unvaccinated, that one being another couple thousand or so.  Could encourage the unvaccinated to either get vaccinated or stay home!

We have 3 weeks or so booked B2B for the Caribbean next winter, but only to escape the Northeastern PA winter not for any love of the place. Final payment is due in Nov., if the ship's not fully vaccinated we'll be building snowmen at home instead. 

We were on one of the last ships to make it into Port Everglades last time, almost jumped ship in the Virgin Islands so we could fly home from there

 I'm not doing that again, too stressful!

[LAFFNVEGAS]

7 minutes ago, ekkc10753 said:

Frankly I hope the ships are 100% vaccinated. I wish there were a way to ensure that. Someone suggested getting around DeSantis by having the regular cruise price and a special cruise price for unvaccinated, that one being another couple thousand or so.  Could encourage the unvaccinated to either get vaccinated or stay home!

We have 3 weeks or so booked B2B for the Caribbean next winter, but only to escape the Northeastern PA winter not for any love of the place. Final payment is due in Nov., if the ship's not fully vaccinated we'll be building snowmen at home instead. 

We were on one of the last ships to make it into Port Everglades last time, almost jumped ship in the Virgin Islands so we could fly home from there

 I'm not doing that again, too stressful!

Actually what is going to happen with at least Royal Caribbean and I also believe Carnival to begin with is they will NOT ask for proof of the Vaccine card but when you check in they will say all passengers 12 and older must come this way to get a Covid test, but we need to charge you (most likely $150 to $250) per person. But have signs up all over stating Vaccinated Passengers do not need to be tested. It is Up to the passengers at that point to speak up and say" I am vaccinated here's my proof. This way they are volunteering the information and the cruise line is not asking for it. I also believe this information will be all over their website for check in worded in a way that just reflects information not stating they need the proof. This way it will be their choice get tested 2 to 4 times and pay a whole lot of money to the cruise line each time or just get vaccinated for free prior to the cruise.  Really everyone has a choice including the cruise line that just wants to protect their crew, their passengers and most of all the Future of their business and cruising.

[rucrazy]

11 minutes ago, LAFFNVEGAS said:

Actually what is going to happen with at least Royal Caribbean and I also believe Carnival to begin with is they will NOT ask for proof of the Vaccine card but when you check in they will say all passengers 12 and older must come this way to get a Covid test,

Interesting approach... I can dig it!

[ekkc10753]

9 minutes ago, LAFFNVEGAS said:

Actually what is going to happen with at least Royal Caribbean and I also believe Carnival to begin with is they will NOT ask for proof of the Vaccine card but when you check in they will say all passengers 12 and older must come this way to get a Covid test, but we need to charge you (most likely $150 to $250) per person. But have signs up all over stating Vaccinated Passengers do not need to be tested. It is Up to the passengers at that point to speak up and say" I am vaccinated here's my proof. This way they are volunteering the information and the cruise line is not asking for it. I also believe this information will be all over their website for check in worded in a way that just reflects information not stating they need the proof. This way it will be their choice get tested 2 to 4 times and pay a whole lot of money to the cruise line each time or just get vaccinated for free prior to the cruise.  Really everyone has a choice including the cruise line that just wants to protect their crew, their passengers and most of all the Future of their business and cruising.

So if I'm understanding this correctly, unvaccinated passengers can check in, pay to be tested, and if negative, board the ship.  And then a few shore excursions later, be tested again and conceivably test positive and thats the end of the cruise for all of us?

please tell me I've misunderstood!!

[wdw1972]

16 minutes ago, ekkc10753 said:

So if I'm understanding this correctly, unvaccinated passengers can check in, pay to be tested, and if negative, board the ship.  And then a few shore excursions later, be tested again and conceivably test positive and thats the end of the cruise for all of us?

please tell me I've misunderstood!!

It should work like the recent positives on Celebrity Millenium.  The cruise is temporarily disrupted (an evening) for the people who were in close contact with the positive person.  The cruise basically ends for the positive person (quarantined to stateroom if asymptomatic, put off the ship if needing hospitalization).  For everyone else, nothing skips a beat - the cruise goes on, everything is up & running.  The hysteria and returning to port is hopefully over!

 

Sue/WDW1972

[LAFFNVEGAS]

19 minutes ago, ekkc10753 said:

So if I'm understanding this correctly, unvaccinated passengers can check in, pay to be tested, and if negative, board the ship.  And then a few shore excursions later, be tested again and conceivably test positive and thats the end of the cruise for all of us?

please tell me I've misunderstood!!

No, then it jumps into the Protocol that the cruise lines have put into place with quarantining those that doe test positive. A good example is how Celebrity handled what happened last week with two passengers. For all intense and purposes it worked exactly as planned and per what CDC required.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

21 minutes ago, ekkc10753 said:

So if I'm understanding this correctly, unvaccinated passengers can check in, pay to be tested, and if negative, board the ship.  And then a few shore excursions later, be tested again and conceivably test positive and thats the end of the cruise for all of us?

please tell me I've misunderstood!!

But it will also discourage cruisers not vaccinated if they have to pay upon embarkation $500.00 per stateroom, then a few days later have to pay another $500.00 and possibly yet again another $500.00. they could easily have to pay $1500.00 in addition to their cruise to be able to go un-vaccinated. I am sure quite a few will have second thoughts on this. Richard Fain the CEO of RCI Group was pretty confident that very few would be un-vaccinated and most would chose to be vaccinated when cruising with them. 

[ekkc10753]

That's very encouraging! Thank you both! I'm so looking forward to a this vacation - no dishes, no cooking, just the big blue sea and sky!

[cruisegirl]

Anything to ensure everyone is vaccinated is fine with me. 

[nocl]

6 hours ago, LAFFNVEGAS said:

No, then it jumps into the Protocol that the cruise lines have put into place with quarantining those that doe test positive. A good example is how Celebrity handled what happened last week with two passengers. For all intense and purposes it worked exactly as planned and per what CDC required.

However, cruising from the US and not reaching the 95% vaccinated means that they will be sailing under an approved protocol, which would include the CDC limit with s maximum percentage of cases around 1%.

[rucrazy]

Do we have a time frame on the new contract being released or was the 14th just a best guess guestimate?

[YXU AC*SE]

36 minutes ago, rucrazy said:

Do we have a time frame on the new contract being released ...

 

HAL has advised the TA community that the 14th was the cutover date.  Scott. 

 

source: https://gohal.com/app/uploads/2021/05/FAQ-HAL-Online-Check-In-Flow-Changes_042121.docx

 

Contract text (all 14,276 words of it) here:

https://gohal.com/app/uploads/2021/05/HAL-Cruise-Contract-Domestic-Restart-15APR2021.docx

 

 

[harkinmr]

20 hours ago, ekkc10753 said:

So if I'm understanding this correctly, unvaccinated passengers can check in, pay to be tested, and if negative, board the ship.  And then a few shore excursions later, be tested again and conceivably test positive and thats the end of the cruise for all of us?

please tell me I've misunderstood!!

The way it is going to work with Celebrity and the others is that they are pre-registering passengers and if you agree online to provide proof of vaccination status at the port you are put in the "vaccinated" pile.  If you do not, then you are put in the "unvaccinated" pile.  Once they reach 5% unvaccinated the unvaccinated category pre-registration closes.  ANYONE who shows up at the port and does not provide the required proof are categorized as unvaccinated and may not be allowed to board if the category is full.  If you are in the unvaccinated pile you will be subject to additional testing and protocols during the cruise.  This has nothing to do with being tested.  If testing is required for anyone boarding,  a negative test will obviously be required to board.  That is separate from vaccination status.

[rucrazy]

5 minutes ago, YXU AC*SE said:

 

HAL has advised the TA community that the 14th was the cutover date.  Scott. 

 

 

Much appreciated

[richwmn]

as of right now, the contract has not been updated for Guests to view.

the message is the same as I got a couple of days ago

Holland America Line Cruise Contract

Please note the terms and conditions for your upcoming sailing are in the process of being updated to reflect information you need to be aware of due to COVID-19 procedures and protocols. Guests will receive a notification when the updated terms and conditions are ready for review and acceptance. We encourage you to download our Navigator mobile app for this and other travel notifications.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

1 hour ago, rucrazy said:

Do we have a time frame on the new contract being released or was the 14th just a best guess guestimate?

Yes it does appear it could take several days. I suspect those that have the cruise for July 24th will be first, then sailings dates in date order afterwards. Although I am on the July 24th and I just checked and still nothing updated.

I will keep checking through out the day and will advise once I see it.

[mcrcruiser]

30 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

The way it is going to work with Celebrity and the others is that they are pre-registering passengers and if you agree online to provide proof of vaccination status at the port you are put in the "vaccinated" pile.  If you do not, then you are put in the "unvaccinated" pile.  Once they reach 5% unvaccinated the unvaccinated category pre-registration closes.  ANYONE who shows up at the port and does not provide the required proof are categorized as unvaccinated and may not be allowed to board if the category is full.  If you are in the unvaccinated pile you will be subject to additional testing and protocols during the cruise.  This has nothing to do with being tested.  If testing is required for anyone boarding,  a negative test will obviously be required to board.  That is separate from vaccination status.

The complexity of this issue is getting worse & worse imo  . THE CDC 's main job is to keep Americans   safe of  threats from diseases   . I don't see why the cruise lines   just don't require that every one must be vaccinated until this virus disappears or  that proof of boosters shots is also required if the virus lingers year after year