Italy Bans Cruise Ships from Venice

[sail1658]

Just discovered this article. We were hoping to sail  on Silver Dawn next year from Venice.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-italy-legislate-keep-liners-out-venice-lagoon-sources-2021-07-13/?fbclid=IwAR36yROVHcf99N35uTrUOhLRFpLKDypnNT7xKz-cMkOTJZbLCItgbangpuA

[Observer]

1 hour ago, sail1658 said:

Just discovered this article. We were hoping to sail  on Silver Dawn next year from Venice.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-italy-legislate-keep-liners-out-venice-lagoon-sources-2021-07-13/?fbclid=IwAR36yROVHcf99N35uTrUOhLRFpLKDypnNT7xKz-cMkOTJZbLCItgbangpuA

 

I believe that this legislation affects only maritime traffic on a specific, very scenic route into Venice.  Do not despair. Yet.  

Edited July 13, 2021 by Observer

[TLCOhio]

1 hour ago, Observer said:

I believe that this legislation affects only maritime traffic on a specific, very scenic route into Venice.  Do not despair. Yet.  

 

Agree above with the savvy Observer that this story is a little premature.  It is not a "done deal", yet.  

 

In reading from the Reuters newswire this morning, they had this headline: “Italy to legislate to keep liners out of Venice lagoon” with these highlights: “The Italian cabinet will meet on Tuesday to discuss emergency measures to keep large cruise ships out of Venice lagoon, three government sources said.   The government decided to act after the United Nations culture organisation UNESCO threatened to put Italy on a blacklist for not banning liners from the World Heritage site, one of the sources said.   The legislation will take immediate effect, the sources said, without giving further details.   It is likely to affect the business of cruise companies.  Rome has passed legislation in the past to limit liners' access to one of the world's most famous tourist sites, but an alternative docking point is not yet ready.  In April, Prime Minister Mario Draghi's government approved a decree to build a terminal outside the lagoon where passenger vessels over 40,000 tons and container ships can berth without passing in front of Saint Mark's Square, the city's most famous landmark.  Large boats were told to dock at the industrial port of Marghera, but even this intermediate solution is not yet ready because Marghera lacks a suitable docking point for liners.”

 

Oh, those "little" details like building a new cruise ship docking location, can be a major factor as to how things would work . . . or not . . . affecting this future planning and operations.  Details?  Details??  When and how it all gets done will be a longer-running question.  Such "things" do not get accomplished in the Italy of this twenty-first century. 

 

Full story at:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-italy-legislate-keep-liners-out-venice-lagoon-sources-2021-07-13/

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Venice: Loving It & Why??!!  Is one of your future desires or past favorites? See these many visual samples for its great history and architecture.  This posting is now at 90,982 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1278226

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

Agree above with the savvy Observer that this story is a little premature.  It is not a "done deal", yet.  

 

2 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

Details?  Details??  When and how it all gets done will be a longer-running question.  Such "things" do not get accomplished in the Italy of this twenty-first century. 

 

How much concern has been expressed in recent years about cruises not being able to visit Venice and sail to their usual cruise terminal?  Lots of "news" about prohibitions.  What has happened?  

 

Now, I am NOT saying that there is not a legitimate environmental concern expressed by some.  But, I would suggest pouring oneself a glass of a quality Italian wine of your choice and not be overly concerned.  

[Hlitner]

5 hours ago, Observer said:

 

I believe that this legislation affects only maritime traffic on a specific, very scenic route into Venice.  Do not despair. Yet.  

WOW!  Not sure about what you speak.  The only route to the Venice Maritima Port (which is also called the cruise port) is via the channel that runs through the Lagoon to the Giudecca Canal to the port.  It appears that Rome has finally spoken and banned all cruise ships over 25,000 tons (this would include all the SS vessels.  This has happened it is not fantasy.  IMHO it has been a long time coming and this does sound like the final word.  You should understand there are no other routes into Venice.  It is still possible for some ships to go to mainland commercial ports (such as Marghera) but this is not a good solution.  Perhaps some cruise lines such as SS can make arrangements to use Marghera (an ugly port) or another nearby mainland commercial port but I would not hold by breath.  Other likely ports such as Ravenna and Trieste are more then 2 hours distant (by train or bus).  

 

I do not think there will be any further appeals to the new ruling.  It has taken the anti-cruise folks around 20 years to get to this point but they have won the day based on very real environmental concerns.  Apparently some thought that allowing the big MSC ship into the port (last month) would make a statement...but the only statement was that it was an awful decision that has backfired.  If you want to go to Venice (a place we really enjoy) then make your plans to visit via land (train, car, air).

 

Hank

[MBP&O2/O]

There is a thread on this dated 1st April where another journalist points out the flaws in the potential legislation. It also mentions the tonnage of these ships …. But doesn’t clarify which tonnage .. ie Gross, Net, or dwt.

On the Barbara M q&a’s I raised this specific point and they thought that they would be OK.

 

https://europeforvisitors.com/venice/articles/venice-cruising-changes.ht

 

Don't believe the hype that you read about cruise ships being banned from central Venice. Talk is cheap, but the Italian government has yet to come up with firm plans (or cash) to build a new port outside the city.
 

The Italian government announced on April 1, 2021 that large cruise ships are being banned from central Venice, including the existing cruise port.

The government's stated goal is to create a new artificial harbor and cruise port on the Adriatic at some unspecified time in the future, with ships using the mainland industrial port of Marghera (opposite Venice' s historic center) until a new port is built.

 

There are at least five major problems with this proposed solution:

First, the industrial ship channel that leads to Marghera isn't deep or wide enough for large cruise ships, and dredging it would be (a) massively expensive, (b) environmentally detrimental to the Venetian Lagoon, and (c) prohibited by law.

Second, the Marghera industrial port will require a new terminal and other infrastructure to support cruise ships.

Third, Italian law forbids operating passenger services in polluted or high-risk industrial areas such as the Marghera port.

Fourth, the Italian government has not committed to financing a new port on the Adriatic. Talk is cheap--especially in Italy, where various political and NIMBY groups have been fighting over the port for more than a decade.

Finally, Italian governments are notorious for being short-lived, and future governments won't necessarily abide by the current government's announcement.

(Side note: Proponents of a new cruise port want to locate it on the Lido di Venezia, Venice's beach resort. This idea is nothing short of idiotic, since the Lido is an island that can only be reached by passenger boat or car ferry, making it impractical for provisioning large cruise ships.)

What's happening in 2021:

Cruise lines' plans in general are in flux right now, due to the COVID-19 pandemic. However, MSC Cruises has also announced that of its ships will be sailing from Venice this summer, and other lines will almost certainly follow MSC's lead as the industry returns to normal.

It's also worth noting that the government's supposed plans won't affect cruise ships under 40,000 tons.

[seaquay]

Looks like the ban will be implemented from August 1st for vessels weighing over 25,000 tonnes, longer than 180 meters or that employ more than a set amount of fuel in maneuvering.  Seems this has come to a conclusion after  UNESCO proposed putting Venice on the World Heritage watchlist due to its failure to ban large ships.  Will be interesting to see what cruise lines now do with regards to visiting Venice 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by seaquay

[MBP&O2/O]

Specifications of Silver Dawn

Year built	2021 new ship
Speed	20 kn / 37 kph / 23 mph
Length (LOA)	213 m / 699 ft
Beam (width)	26 m / 85 ft
Gross Tonnage	40700 g

If anything over 180m and an (unspecified type of) tonnage of over 25k is banned then what will be left? As far as SS is concerned then the Cloud and the Wind will fit, but they are expedition vessels?

The article also says “The 25,000-ton threshold will mean only small passenger ferries and goods vessels can use the Giudecca, ”

 

If NCL, MSC, etc suddenly told the authorities that they were pulling out of Venice, the tourist trade reps would be up in arms 😏 as they are at the moment.

”Such concerns clash with the interests of port authorities and tourist operators who say the city needs the business offered by the cruise industry.”

 

Bottom line … again from the article ..

”NO DOCKING POINT

Rome has passed legislation numerous times in the past to limit liners' access to one of the world's most famous tourist sites, but an alternative docking point is not yet ready.”

 

And how long to make it ready 🙄

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[les37b]

9 hours ago, Hlitner said:

WOW!  Not sure about what you speak.  The only route to the Venice Maritima Port (which is also called the cruise port) is via the channel that runs through the Lagoon to the Giudecca Canal to the port.  It appears that Rome has finally spoken and banned all cruise ships over 25,000 tons (this would include all the SS vessels.  This has happened it is not fantasy. 

 

 

Both Silver Wind and Silver Cloud are under that limit. They would not be banned.

[Hlitner]

9 minutes ago, les37b said:

 

 

Both Silver Wind and Silver Cloud are under that limit. They would not be banned.

Great point.  Another reason to cruise on SS :);

 

Hank

[Hanoverian]

Hlitner and MPB&02/0 have made excellent points that about sums it all up as things stand at present.  Ravenna's small cruise port can handle medium to small size ships, Trieste can dock larger ships.  The time and money needed to make Marghera ready to receive cruise ships is more than likely to span several cruise seasons.  So, it is going to be interesting to see what the lines and the Italians are going to come up with as an interim solution.

 

[rkacruiser]

7 hours ago, Hanoverian said:

So, it is going to be interesting to see what the lines and the Italians are going to come up with as an interim solution.

 

Pour oneself another glass of a quality Italian wine.  Prepare a plate of canapes.  And stay tuned.  Is the Italian Government the "Fat Lady"?  Has she sung?  I wonder.  

[Hanoverian]

Perhaps Monfalcone and/or Trieste are ready to fill in the gap per the following article. 

 

 https://adriaports.anawim.it/en/cruises/monfalcone-a-cruise-ship-docked-for-the-first-time-two-other-white-ships-are-moored-in-trieste/

[Hlitner]

47 minutes ago, Hanoverian said:

Perhaps Monfalcone and/or Trieste are ready to fill in the gap per the following article. 

 

 https://adriaports.anawim.it/en/cruises/monfalcone-a-cruise-ship-docked-for-the-first-time-two-other-white-ships-are-moored-in-trieste/

Perhaps, but those ports are a pretty long drive (about 2 hours each way) from Venice.  And consider that a 4000 passenger ship would need about 80 buses to get their passengers to Venice.  If there were 3 or 4 ships (not unusual) busing folks to Venice there would be a very serious problem about how to deal with so many buses.  As one who has done a lot of driving throughout Italy, including to Venice, I think would cause lots of related issues.  The only way to drive to Venice is over a single causeway and there is hardly enough room in the Piazale Roma to handle major bus traffic (in addition to the usual bus traffic).  So the possible solution would be to bus folks to either Tronchetto Island or the current cruise port where folks could access the People Mover.   That would certainly strain the People Mover system, but it might be the only reasonable solution.   Another crazy idea (that just occurred to me) would be to bus folks to a train station that could carry passengers into Venice.  But even this idea would likely cause problems since Venice's train station can only handle a limited number of trains (not to mention the limitations of tracks into Venice).

 

Hank

[cruiseej]

3 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

Pour oneself another glass of a quality Italian wine.  Prepare a plate of canapes.  And stay tuned.  Is the Italian Government the "Fat Lady"?  Has she sung?  I wonder.

 

No, sorry, I think this is a Big Deal. The Real Deal. @Hlitner is correct. Unlike past efforts to ban cruise ships, which were always tied up in development of alternatives, this time, it seems they have simply decided to ban cruise ships, effective immediately, and then work as quickly as possible to come up with alternatives.

 

This is from The New York Times:

 

Italy announced on Tuesday that it was banning large cruise ships from entering Venice’s waters and was also declaring the city’s lagoon a national monument, in a move to protect a fragile ecosystem from the downsides of mass tourism. The ban, demanded for decades by both Venice residents and environmentalists, will take effect on Aug. 1.

 

“The intervention could no longer be delayed,” Italy’s culture minister, Dario Franceschini, said in a statement. In April, the government of Prime Minister Mario Draghi announced that it was planning to ban large cruise ships from the San Marco basin, the San Marco canal and the Giudecca canal, but no date for the ban was set. Also, the prohibition was conditioned on the building of a new port where tourists could disembark to visit the city, a project that could take years.

 

Tuesday’s decision removed that condition, so the ban could be enforced in weeks, not years.

 

The government also decided to give power to the regional port authority to determine how five temporary docks can be built in Marghera, a nearby industrial port, while respecting maritime safety and environmental laws. The intention to divert the cruise ships to the port of Marghera has raised eyebrows. The port is built for cargo ships and is not nearly as picturesque as the city’s lagoon. Moreover, the port’s channel is not large and deep enough for most cruise ships and would require major construction work. Among the many projects considered by governments over the years, one envisioned a permanent passenger terminal at the Lido entrance to the lagoon. Activists considered that the best solution for the city and for the cruise industry.

 

Mr. Draghi’s cabinet also moved on Tuesday to establish compensation for sailing companies that will be affected by the ban and for other businesses connected to the cruise traffic inside the lagoon.

 

The cruise industry is hoping, Mr. Galietti said, that the new docking sites would be ready in 2022, when tourists are expected to return en masse to cruises. This year, only 20 liners were expected to arrive in Venice.

 

So this is not what has happened in the past. It seems cruising into and out of Venice may actually be done for good. And it will still take a long time to come up with a permanent solution. Whether they can come up with a short-term solution for 2022 and perhaps the next several years is yet to be seen.

 

12 hours ago, les37b said:

Both Silver Wind and Silver Cloud are under that limit. They would not be banned.

 

Perhaps. (There seem to be other conditions beyond weight which might knock out the smaller cruise ships.) But the key is that Silversea doesn't sail these expedition ships on a series of summer Adriatic/Mediterranean cruises. They converted them into expedition ships to they can spend the summer in the North Atlantic visiting Greenland, Iceland, Norway, etc.

 

Silver Dawn and Silver Spirit are currently scheduled to be visiting Venice in summer 2022, and it sure seems like those plans will now have to be revamped.

[Hanoverian]

Yeah, we were doing the math, too, Hank, and the busing idea just does not work.  We have a Regent "Splendor" cruise boarding from Venice this fall preceded by five days on our own in Venice.  The next stop is Split after leaving Venice, so who knows where our cruise will actually start from now.  And if Venice was just a one day stop on a cruise itinerary, it might just not be worth the trouble to the passengers and the cruise line to try to get in and out of the city.  Certainly a mess that recent precipitous action and some advanced planning years ago might have averted.  

[Hlitner]

11 minutes ago, Hanoverian said:

Yeah, we were doing the math, too, Hank, and the busing idea just does not work.  We have a Regent "Splendor" cruise boarding from Venice this fall preceded by five days on our own in Venice.  The next stop is Split after leaving Venice, so who knows where our cruise will actually start from now.  And if Venice was just a one day stop on a cruise itinerary, it might just not be worth the trouble to the passengers and the cruise line to try to get in and out of the city.  Certainly a mess that recent precipitous action and some advanced planning years ago might have averted.  

I think "you got that right" applies to your entire post :(.  As I have previously mentioned, this Venice issue has been kicking around the Italian legislature and their court system for around 20 years (I have lost count of the years).  It almost sounds like the government has essentially thrown up its hands, surrendered, and banned the ships without dealing with all the fallout and related issues.  The truth is that there are no simple solutions and thinking that the relatively minor port of Marghera can solve the cruise ship issues is just folly.  DW and I are really glad that we have been able to experience cruising in and out of Venice on many different ships over nearly 40 years.  For those that have procrastinated is booking this experience, they are either out of luck of will need to look to a few small ship lines.  I would not be surprised to see Rome eventually deal a death blow to big ships going to La Spezia (for Cinque Terre).  The horse is out of the gate and governments are finally going to be forced (by various advocacy groups) to deal with huge ships, over tourism, etc.

 

Hank

[les37b]

6 hours ago, cruiseej said:

Perhaps. (There seem to be other conditions beyond weight which might knock out the smaller cruise ships.) But the key is that Silversea doesn't sail these expedition ships on a series of summer Adriatic/Mediterranean cruises. They converted them into expedition ships to they can spend the summer in the North Atlantic visiting Greenland, Iceland, Norway, etc.

 

Silver Dawn and Silver Spirit are currently scheduled to be visiting Venice in summer 2022, and it sure seems like those plans will now have to be revamped.

 

The Artic and Antarctic expedition cruise ships transition each year. At the moment, as you point out, SS do cruise out of Venice with Spirit and Dawn. 

 

As sure as eggs is eggs, if the fleet of all CL are banned from Venice, you'd be a fool to believe SS would not take the opportunity to boast that Silver Wind and Silver Cloud goes to places other ships can't sail and revamp their itineraries whilst moving between poles.

 

I do however also think that whilst I'm actually fine with the banning of 1000+ passenger ships, I'm not so sure when the dust settles, the ban ends quite as drastic as is currently  proposed.

 

Things can change and often do.

 

[MBP&O2/O]

Just an obscure thought …..

It is a long long time since I visited Puerto Marghera but if I recall all the commercial shipping went on the western side of Giudecca Island…..and, nowadays,  having gone past the island the main cruise port should be immediately visible to stbd. Is their a sufficient  depth of water to allow cruise ships  to access the terminal from this direction? I ‘think’ the Silver Spirit has a draft of circa 20 feet.

Main canal avoided🤓

The ship I was on was not a dissimilar size and we ran at 22 feet.

[rkacruiser]

20 hours ago, Hanoverian said:

Certainly a mess that recent precipitous action and some advanced planning years ago might have averted.  

 

The Italian Government is not known for such type of actions and foresight.

 

20 hours ago, cruiseej said:

Mr. Draghi’s cabinet also moved on Tuesday to establish compensation for sailing companies that will be affected by the ban and for other businesses connected to the cruise traffic inside the lagoon.

 

And, where are they going to get the money to supply such compensation?  I don't recall reading that Italy is one of the financially most secure members of the European Union.  

 

20 hours ago, cruiseej said:

No, sorry, I think this is a Big Deal. The Real Deal.

 

You may well be correct.  Time will tell.  To think that adequate cruise terminal facilities for guests and docking facilities in Marghera by cruise season 2022:  well, it would take close to a miracle to pull that off, I think.

 

Then there is how does a cruise line conveniently get guests from/to the new port?  As has been pointed out.

 

Which issue is going to prevail?  Environmental responsibility, economic interests, or practicality?  My opinion, the best possible blend of the three.  

 

As I have said, this "opera" is not over in my opinion.  

[Host Jazzbeau]

As Inspector Montalbano would say, "They've only sung half the Mass..."

[cruiseej]

Although I've been to Venice and read about the concerns with large cruise ships cruising into and out of the island city, the announcement this week of the immediate ban on cruise ships made me realize I didn't understand enough about the geography and logistic. So after doing a bit of reading to make sense of the Venice situation for myself, I offer this post and particularly a map I created which you might find helpful in understanding the relationship of where cruise ships have previously sailed and docked versus where they will now need to go.

 

 

The key things to understand are that Venice is an island, and along with the surrounding islands like Murano, Burano, Torcello, Guidecca, sits in a shallow lagoon with an average depth of less than 35 feet. The lagoon is protected from the Adriatic sea by a peninsula and barrier islands, with two passage points for ships. There are only a few channels within the lagoon which are deep enough for large commercial vessels and cruise ships to pass through.

 

The action by the Italian government this week blocks large ships from transiting the upper dark blue route on the map, the "Grand Canal" through Venice. And there's no other way around the shallow lagoon to get to the existing cruise port. The planned alternative, at least for the next few years: the current industrial port of Marghera on the mainland. As the map shows, the industrial port of Marghera is actually rather close to central Venice, but the water between the two is too shallow for large ships. Ships going to or from Marghera must use the bottom entrance to the lagoon and follow a narrow channel up to the port.

 

But there are multiple problems with the use of Marghera for cruise ships. It's an industrial commercial port, but cruise ships dock at industrial locations in other cities. Currently, though, there are no berths designed for cruise ships. There is a plan to quickly -- by sometime in 2022 -- create 5 berths for cruise ships, but that's only part of the puzzle. They'll need to create a rudimentary cruise terminal for checking passengers in, handling luggage, etc. And they'll have to figure out how to transport thousands of cruise ship tourists — often above 7,000 during high season, with peak days in excess of 15,000 -- as to and from the port to central Venice. (On a day with 10,000 cruise passengers in port, it would take about 200 bus trips each way to move people between the port and the bus terminal on Venice… which is not designed for that kind of volume at all!) The government's decision to enact the immediate cruise ship ban creates a scramble to solve issues which have been on the table without consensus or action for decades now. So there are many questions which will need to be answered in the weeks and months ahead!

 

And Marghera is considered only a stopgap solution, because the ultimate goal is to keep large cruise ships out of the Venice lagoon entirely. There have been discussions about building a cruise ship terminal on the island of Lido -- the long, thin green island on the right side of the map between the two lagoon entrances -- but there's been no agreement, and construction would require years of infrastructure work. Some cruise lines may reduce or eliminate their travel to Venice, although Venice is ranked Venice is ranked as Europe’s 7th busiest cruise port, and number 22 in the world. Some may turn to other ports along the Adriatic coast, such as Ravenna (about two hours south) or Trieste (about 2 hours east) — but neither of those cities have the large international airport that Venice does… and of course, they aren't Venice, which is one of the top 50 cities in the world for tourist visits.

 

 

[Hlitner]

13 minutes ago, cruiseej said:

Although I've been to Venice and read about the concerns with large cruise ships cruising into and out of the island city, the announcement this week of the immediate ban on cruise ships made me realize I didn't understand enough about the geography and logistic. So after doing a bit of reading to make sense of the Venice situation for myself, I offer this post and particularly a map I created which you might find helpful in understanding the relationship of where cruise ships have previously sailed and docked versus where they will now need to go.

 

 

The key things to understand are that Venice is an island, and along with the surrounding islands like Murano, Burano, Torcello, Guidecca, sits in a shallow lagoon with an average depth of less than 35 feet. The lagoon is protected from the Adriatic sea by a peninsula and barrier islands, with two passage points for ships. There are only a few channels within the lagoon which are deep enough for large commercial vessels and cruise ships to pass through.

 

The action by the Italian government this week blocks large ships from transiting the upper dark blue route on the map, the "Grand Canal" through Venice. And there's no other way around the shallow lagoon to get to the existing cruise port. The planned alternative, at least for the next few years: the current industrial port of Marghera on the mainland. As the map shows, the industrial port of Marghera is actually rather close to central Venice, but the water between the two is too shallow for large ships. Ships going to or from Marghera must use the bottom entrance to the lagoon and follow a narrow channel up to the port.

 

But there are multiple problems with the use of Marghera for cruise ships. It's an industrial commercial port, but cruise ships dock at industrial locations in other cities. Currently, though, there are no berths designed for cruise ships. There is a plan to quickly -- by sometime in 2022 -- create 5 berths for cruise ships, but that's only part of the puzzle. They'll need to create a rudimentary cruise terminal for checking passengers in, handling luggage, etc. And they'll have to figure out how to transport thousands of cruise ship tourists — often above 7,000 during high season, with peak days in excess of 15,000 -- as to and from the port to central Venice. (On a day with 10,000 cruise passengers in port, it would take about 200 bus trips each way to move people between the port and the bus terminal on Venice… which is not designed for that kind of volume at all!) The government's decision to enact the immediate cruise ship ban creates a scramble to solve issues which have been on the table without consensus or action for decades now. So there are many questions which will need to be answered in the weeks and months ahead!

 

And Marghera is considered only a stopgap solution, because the ultimate goal is to keep large cruise ships out of the Venice lagoon entirely. There have been discussions about building a cruise ship terminal on the island of Lido -- the long, thin green island on the right side of the map between the two lagoon entrances -- but there's been no agreement, and construction would require years of infrastructure work. Some cruise lines may reduce or eliminate their travel to Venice, although Venice is ranked Venice is ranked as Europe’s 7th busiest cruise port, and number 22 in the world. Some may turn to other ports along the Adriatic coast, such as Ravenna (about two hours south) or Trieste (about 2 hours east) — but neither of those cities have the large international airport that Venice does… and of course, they aren't Venice, which is one of the top 50 cities in the world for tourist visits.

 

 

You are coming close to getting it right :).   But seriously I would toss out a couple of comments.  To be very clear, no cruise ship sails into the Grand Canal...never has and never will.  The cruise ships that have gone to the Maritima port transit parts of the Lagoon and the Giudecca Canal!  The Grand Canal is simply not grand enough to handle any large ship :).  

 

As to Marghera being a temporary solution, I suspect that because of the political situation in Italy, the budget limitations of their government, and the inability of the Italian Government to move forward with major projects.....the use of Porto Marghera may well be the new normal for many decades.  Building a new alternative port outside the lagoon, if it ever were to happen, would likely take decades.  Just dealing with the usual environmental concerns would certainly not happen in my life time and likely would not happen in my latest Grandson's lifetime (he is 2 and should live at least 90 more years).

 

Hank

[cruiseej]

@Hlitner Oops, yes... Giudecca Canal. At least I drew it correctly on the map!

 

As for the long term, you might be right. Just too many questions to know at this time. But there is still pressure from UNESCO and other environmental groups on the government to get the cruise ships out of the lagoon. Whether that will happen in our lifetime, who knows? They are in the midst of a design competition for a long-term solution, with a winning plan to be selected in June 2023. But I agree with you that the very significant cost of building something completely from scratch is questionable. Maybe the Italian government will take a page from the US budget book, and just spend the money it doesn't really have. 😉

[Will Work for Tiramisu]

Bit of a sticky wicket!  I can certainly sympathize with the folks in Venezia who don't want big honking ships full of clueless tourists barging up the Giudeca. (And the videos of a MSC ship crashing into a river boat tied up along the canal did not help!)  All those old geezers with shorts and ugly legs!!  However, all those tourists arriving on ships empty a LOT of folks in Venice, AND - Venice has made a major investment in an excellent cruise port, the people mover, and so forth.  If you have cruised into Venice in the past, enjoy your memories!  

 

Hard to know what will happen, but I don't think you've heard the last from the people in Venice whose livelihoods are reliant on tourists arriving by (or departing on) boats.  They do have a bit of a maritime history there.  (And let me take this moment to suggest next time you're there, ignore the usual features of the plaza, and walk a few hundred meters to the east and visit the amazing Maritime Museum.)  

 

If I had to guess, maybe the Italians will decide to let large cruise ships enter the lagoon as if going to Marghera, and (gasp!) dredge a new passage to allow said ships to cut diagonally NE over to the existing cruise port.  But, with my opinion and 5 euros, you can get a nice espresso!