Dine My Way & all new Dining questions since cruising restart!!

[Tedferg]

33 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

Perhaps as it matures and evolves, but hard to know as difficult for a system to organize tables in real time as people book at random over a space of time.

That is my point exactly - keeping the same random group together seems hard to implement in DMW and perhaps not seen as important to HQ. Understand some might find it boring to repeat initial conversations with new tablemates, but that has not been a problem for us. We have on occasion met new table mates that we would have liked to team up with but were not able to arrange our schedules.

 

Sorry to repeat myself but I have to think that HQ feels they have nailed 'flexible' TD with DMW. TD without the complaints that first sitting is to early and second sitting is too late.

 

Matter of fact, we are AT diners and are intrigued by the ability to make a reservation, however if that locks us in to a two top, we would miss those new dinner friends 🙂

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Tedferg

[Steelers36]

6 minutes ago, Tedferg said:

That is my point exactly - keeping the same random group together seems hard to implement in DMW and perhaps not seen as important to HQ. Understand some might find it boring to repeat initial conversations with new tablemates, but that has not been a problem for us. We have on occasion met new table mates that we would have liked to team up with but were not able to arrange our schedules.

 

Sorry to repeat myself but I have to think that HQ feels they have nailed 'flexible' TD with DMW. TD without the complaints that first sitting is to early and second sitting is too late.

 

At this point, I think DMW could be called a success if they can actually book TD guests and fill tables where people elect a larger table to share - regardless of whether table mates match each night - and stick with same physical table each night.

 

Part of TD is having same wait staff - for me that would be more important than same table mates.  So, in order to stick with same waiters, pretty much means same table mates or the other folks are not getting the same wait staff. 

 

I think this is an extremely difficult thing to program when guests are "arriving" at different times to the App to book their dining.  IMO, I would take TD bookings in the App and send them all to the MD on board to sort out and assign seating as they always have done.  I would let the App make actual AT bookings. 

 

Imagine this:  Couple A books TD at a 6-top.  Couple B similarly books TD at a 6-top and is assigned same table as Couple A.  Family C (two cabins worth - 4 people) books TD at a 6-top and gets a different table.  Now Couple X, sailing with Couple Y, adds friends as Travel Companions and attempts to book their dining party of 4 to a 6-top.  But now, 6-tops are all gone for their time slot and they are offered 8-top or 10-top.

 

But wait - we know there are 2 seats open at Couple A & B table and two seats open at Family C table.  If the System could dynamically move Couple B to sit with Family C, then Couple X & Y could be seated at their desired 6-top with Couple A.  This is something that is a piece of cake for the MD to do each voyage, but doing it in the App is extremely difficult without some sort of recursive algorithms that are constantly optimizing the table/seating assignments as new guests access DMW to make a reservation.  I suspect this is a challenge that will take "forever" to do and may be near impossible and not worth the cost - not to mention subject to bugs up the wazoo. 

 

So, this is why I think the best solution is to block off dining inventory for TD selection.  Add TD/AT option to DMW and save all TD selections and send to MD.  Anyone booking outside the TD time slots can book using DMW no problem.  Also, once the MD has done the TD arranging, the TD time slots - if any left - could be open for booking on board only.  For example, seats could open if a TD guest booked Crown Grill one evening or cancelled out due to late port evening.

 

 

[Tedferg]

@Steelers36 Perfect example ! You know computer Chess algorithms search through all options before optimizing the next move, but obviously beyond the scope of DMW 🙂

 

[memoak]

1 hour ago, Steelers36 said:

 

At this point, I think DMW could be called a success if they can actually book TD guests and fill tables where people elect a larger table to share - regardless of whether table mates match each night - and stick with same physical table each night.

 

Part of TD is having same wait staff - for me that would be more important than same table mates.  So, in order to stick with same waiters, pretty much means same table mates or the other folks are not getting the same wait staff. 

 

I think this is an extremely difficult thing to program when guests are "arriving" at different times to the App to book their dining.  IMO, I would take TD bookings in the App and send them all to the MD on board to sort out and assign seating as they always have done.  I would let the App make actual AT bookings. 

 

Imagine this:  Couple A books TD at a 6-top.  Couple B similarly books TD at a 6-top and is assigned same table as Couple A.  Family C (two cabins worth - 4 people) books TD at a 6-top and gets a different table.  Now Couple X, sailing with Couple Y, adds friends as Travel Companions and attempts to book their dining party of 4 to a 6-top.  But now, 6-tops are all gone for their time slot and they are offered 8-top or 10-top.

 

But wait - we know there are 2 seats open at Couple A & B table and two seats open at Family C table.  If the System could dynamically move Couple B to sit with Family C, then Couple X & Y could be seated at their desired 6-top with Couple A.  This is something that is a piece of cake for the MD to do each voyage, but doing it in the App is extremely difficult without some sort of recursive algorithms that are constantly optimizing the table/seating assignments as new guests access DMW to make a reservation.  I suspect this is a challenge that will take "forever" to do and may be near impossible and not worth the cost - not to mention subject to bugs up the wazoo. 

 

So, this is why I think the best solution is to block off dining inventory for TD selection.  Add TD/AT option to DMW and save all TD selections and send to MD.  Anyone booking outside the TD time slots can book using DMW no problem.  Also, once the MD has done the TD arranging, the TD time slots - if any left - could be open for booking on board only.  For example, seats could open if a TD guest booked Crown Grill one evening or cancelled out due to late port evening.

 

 

I think you are giving those programmers way to much credit - they can't get the app to actually work in many cases and you think they can handle AT/TD ?

[Kay S]

2 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

 

 

Lots of people like to meet others on board at larger tables,

 

Maybe a lot more than you think.   Meeting new people and having a week or more to get to know them is central to our cruising pleasure.  We have met people we still call friends.  Ruining TD is ruining a big part of cruising for traditional cruisers like us.  We are prepared to take our business (and our loyalty) elsewhere.

[Mary Ann 2]

Someone may have mentioned this, but the new update said it would be easier to add others to dining table (just in the description; I haven't tried it), and I just discovered that it finally says there are no reservations needed for Club Class Dining when you go to Dine My Way to look at reservations.

 

It was very easy last week to make that night's reservations at any of the three dining rooms (we were not a capacity which helped I'm sure).  Or you could just show up and wait to be seated.

[wowzz]

4 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

 

At this point, I think DMW could be called a success if they can actually book TD guests and fill tables where people elect a larger table to share - regardless of whether table mates match each night - and stick with same physical table each night.

 

Part of TD is having same wait staff - for me that would be more important than same table mates.  So, in order to stick with same waiters, pretty much means same table mates or the other folks are not getting the same wait staff. 

 

I think this is an extremely difficult thing to program when guests are "arriving" at different times to the App to book their dining.  IMO, I would take TD bookings in the App and send them all to the MD on board to sort out and assign seating as they always have done.  I would let the App make actual AT bookings. 

 

Imagine this:  Couple A books TD at a 6-top.  Couple B similarly books TD at a 6-top and is assigned same table as Couple A.  Family C (two cabins worth - 4 people) books TD at a 6-top and gets a different table.  Now Couple X, sailing with Couple Y, adds friends as Travel Companions and attempts to book their dining party of 4 to a 6-top.  But now, 6-tops are all gone for their time slot and they are offered 8-top or 10-top.

 

But wait - we know there are 2 seats open at Couple A & B table and two seats open at Family C table.  If the System could dynamically move Couple B to sit with Family C, then Couple X & Y could be seated at their desired 6-top with Couple A.  This is something that is a piece of cake for the MD to do each voyage, but doing it in the App is extremely difficult without some sort of recursive algorithms that are constantly optimizing the table/seating assignments as new guests access DMW to make a reservation.  I suspect this is a challenge that will take "forever" to do and may be near impossible and not worth the cost - not to mention subject to bugs up the wazoo. 

 

So, this is why I think the best solution is to block off dining inventory for TD selection.  Add TD/AT option to DMW and save all TD selections and send to MD.  Anyone booking outside the TD time slots can book using DMW no problem.  Also, once the MD has done the TD arranging, the TD time slots - if any left - could be open for booking on board only.  For example, seats could open if a TD guest booked Crown Grill one evening or cancelled out due to late port evening.

 

 

Well, that should only take about 3 days to sort out!

Seriously,  trying to sort out those logistics for 1000+ diners is a nightmare. 

The app designers should have left TD in place as an option, with a choice of table size, and 90 % of the complaints about dining options would have dissppeared. 

As has been said before,  whoever briefed the app designers did not recognise the attraction of TD. 

[Tedferg]

4 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Add TD/AT option to DMW and save all TD selections and send to MD.  Anyone booking outside the TD time slots can book using DMW no problem.  

Just re-reading, so adding TD as an option in DMW requires fixed time slots for TD ? I did not follow previous TD closely, but I thought there was a real ruckus when early TD was moved earlier. 

[Kay S]

9 minutes ago, Tedferg said:

did not follow previous TD closely, but I thought there was a real ruckus when early TD was moved earlier. 

The ruckus had more to do with poor Princess communication than the time of day.  Early seating was advertised as 6 pm (usually) so people would book for 6 pm and then find out on the ship that the time was moved earlier, 5 pm or so.  This made people mad since they booked for 6 and the ship arbitrarily changed the time.  Late TD tended to remain at 7:15 or so, and those of us who did late TD didn't complain as the earlier people did.  Who could blame them?  Princess told an out and out lie, and they did it over and over.  They tried to explain it away later by calling the dining times "place holders," but they still advertised the 6 pm slot.  

[Kay S]

22 minutes ago, wowzz said:

 

As has been said before,  whoever briefed the app designers did not recognise the attraction of TD. 

Whoever briefed the app designers never set foot on a cruise ship as far as I can tell.

[Tedferg]

" On most Princess ships the traditional dining times are as follows:
Early seating is at 5:30 p.m.
1st seating is at 6 p.m.
2nd seating is at 8:15 p.m."

I thought this is what TD used to be and then late was changed to 7:15 and so Early moved earlier, closer to 5:00. 7:15 would have been fine for us and avoided Anytime lines / buzzers. But 6:00 or 8:15 would never work.

[Kay S]

45 minutes ago, Tedferg said:

" On most Princess ships the traditional dining times are as follows:
Early seating is at 5:30 p.m.
1st seating is at 6 p.m.
2nd seating is at 8:15 p.m."

I thought this is what TD used to be and then late was changed to 7:15 and so Early moved earlier, closer to 5:00. 7:15 would have been fine for us and avoided Anytime lines / buzzers. But 6:00 or 8:15 would never work.

There was no distinction between "early" and "1st" seating.  There was only first seating and second seating.  People would refer to these as "early" and "late."  Not sure where you got this information.

[Steelers36]

2 hours ago, Kay S said:

There was no distinction between "early" and "1st" seating.  There was only first seating and second seating.  People would refer to these as "early" and "late."  Not sure where you got this information.

I do think there was a time - or times - that (some) ships would have two different Early TD starts - one for the Deck 6 Aft DR and one for the Deck 6 Mid-Ship DR (which only had Early TD, so 5pm). 

 

[capriccio]

4 hours ago, Kay S said:

Whoever briefed the app designers never set foot on a cruise ship as far as I can tell.

Equally and possibly more disturbing than a poor requirements analysis:  everyone in Princess management that approved the design "never set foot on a cruise ship." 

[Steelers36]

5 hours ago, Tedferg said:

Just re-reading, so adding TD as an option in DMW requires fixed time slots for TD ? I did not follow previous TD closely, but I thought there was a real ruckus when early TD was moved earlier. 

 

Princess has documented what they consider Early and Late TD slots for DMW booking.  They are:

Early = 5pm, 5:20pm, 5:40pm

Late = 7pm, 7:20pm, 7:40pm

 

That said, those who take time dining may well find the 0:40 slots too tight to make major entertainment times.

For my proposal, Princess would just need to block out the Early slots for the Aft DR and for Deck 6 Mid-Ship DR.  Then block out the Late time slots for the Aft DR.  This would match previous TD allocation.  

The MD sets up TD tables as they always did using those DR's and times.

The MC App DMW can allow guests to book dining at any other times/locations.  (This includes early dining in the Deck 5 Mid-Ship DR which is not used for TD).

Once the cruise starts, the previously reserved times for TD can be opened up for anyone to book if there are any available seats not used for TD or if any cancellations.

 

4 hours ago, Kay S said:

The ruckus had more to do with poor Princess communication than the time of day.  Early seating was advertised as 6 pm (usually) so people would book for 6 pm and then find out on the ship that the time was moved earlier, 5 pm or so.  This made people mad since they booked for 6 and the ship arbitrarily changed the time.  Late TD tended to remain at 7:15 or so, and those of us who did late TD didn't complain as the earlier people did.  Who could blame them?  Princess told an out and out lie, and they did it over and over.  They tried to explain it away later by calling the dining times "place holders," but they still advertised the 6 pm slot.  

 

Yes, is is true that the time shown in Cruise Personalizer for Early & Late was never necessarily accurate to what would be scheduled on the ships.  But there was always a much higher demand for Early TD than Late TD with the old times of ~6pm and ~8/8:15pm).  I was never convinced that people wanted even earlier Early times, but Princess saw a way to balance the load by moving up Early TD which meant the Late TD also moved earlier.  This created increased demand for Late TD and somewhat less for Early TD.  In fact, where cruise voyages would first fill the Early TD and late bookers would have to go on a Wait List, things changed so sometimes I saw Late TD being filled up over Early TD.  Although closer to reality, the listed times for Early and Late pre-Covid could be off by 15 mins or so. 

 

I cannot recall exactly, but when Princess began moving the dining times to earlier times, it may have taken a while before the Cruise Personalizer was updated.  But I do recall seeing two different Early times in the booking engine.  One would in theory be for the Aft DR and one for the Mid-Ship (but not labelled as such).  Anyway, doesn't matter now.

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Steelers36

[Steelers36]

5 minutes ago, capriccio said:

Equally and possibly more disturbing than a poor requirements analysis:  everyone in Princess management that approved the design "never set foot on a cruise ship." 

I get the huge screw-up, but find it hard to believe senior PCL mgmt has not been on a ship.  I would believe most of the IT team not been on a ship, nor understood "the Princess way". 

 

Maybe they need a lesson from McDonald's who always had their office mgmt get into a restaurant and flip burgers to understand the store process and customer interactions.

 

[Steelers36]

This morning, I noticed MC App was updated again (for Android at least).  They made some DMW fixes, along with other fixes.  New version is 3.0.94299.  It auto-updated for the first time.

 

Initially, DMW was offering me two table size options for our party of 4 (two of us plus two travel companions).  I was offered a 4-top and a 6-top and allowed system to re-book us for the full voyage.  The result back was unchanged from before - we had a 2-top for first 7 nights, then a 4-top for next 7 nights, and then back to a 2-top for final 11 nights.  Obviously, no good.

 

I also noticed that the documentation on changes in the Play Store was not updated.  This evening, those change notes are updated and the App is behaving completely different.

 

Now, if I go in and review our booking, it tells me we are at a Private Table with no indication of size.  Now, I wouldn't get too excited if the four of us were seated at a 6-top, but no way would we want an 8-top or 10-top - what a waste!

 

So, now Princess is hiding the table size and simply "promising" we have private seating.  But, did they magically fix attempting to seat the four of us at a 2-top?  I doubt it, since no changes made to what we had before.  Makes me suspicious as to why they are hiding the assigned table size?  It would be a bit of luxury for two people to be assigned to a 4-top as private.  But no way to know what is going on in the background.  And then when we show up on the ship, we have no expectation as to what has been done.  Sorry, I just don't trust the buggy App to do it correctly. 

 

On closer inspection, DMW indicates we have a Private Table for the first 7 nights and the second 7 nights.  For the first night of the final 11-night voyage, it states Split Tables, then Private Table until the final 11th night when it again states Split Tables.  This would seem to echo the previously assigned 2-top, but who knows what is going on? 

 

I then checked our other voyage - a single 14-nighter.  It was never an issue (ISLAND with Provence DR) and all nights read Private Table.  I imagine that one is still good.

 

In playing with it further, if I tried a one night override booking for the two of us, I was offered only shared table for most time slots and private only for later times.  When I tried the single night override for the four of us, I had much more private table choices.  Makes sense that a lot of 2-tops could be assigned already, but again who knows how many people have accessed DMW for OCT/NOV , 2022? 

 

I am putting down this detail as will be curious to read what other CC member experiences are with the revised DMW. 

 

 

I think the biggest issue is when you select the Share Table option, there is no indication of size.  Even if I was interested in sharing, I might be okay sharing the two of us at a 4-top, but no way would want an 8-top or 10-top and would keep Private if that was the option.  This is not good with Princess "hiding" the table size.  Either it is an incremental improvement, or they have stumbled into the problem I already perceived - how to dynamically assign seating at tables and meet requests that come in over time without re-jigging assignments as you go.  I will ask Princess contacts about this.

 

Another problem is we had been assigned to a 2-top for the four of us and it now seems to be a real thing as the system is indicating a Split Party situation.  And it even offers it as an option.  This is terrible.  Why would a dining party want to accept split tables?

 

 

ETA:  Also, assuming there was no 4-top to offer for a dining party of 4, why would the system elect to split the party rather than assign a shared table like a 6-top?

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Steelers36

[Iamcruzin]

On 8/11/2021 at 9:44 PM, 2 cruises a year said:

And Expensive!!

The Class Structure coming back.

Princess is late to the party as NCL, Celebrity, and MCS beat them to the punch in a much bigger way.

[jangor]

On 8/11/2021 at 6:58 PM, mellon1 said:

Very good point and well said.  I can't believe people would pay $500 approximately a day for Club Class.  We had it with a suite included.  It is not worth that.  You could go to the specialty restaurant for dinner every night and get an ultimate atmosphere and meal for $60 a day.  I know they have breakfast and lunch, but still.  I wonder if people realize how much more it is or if they have done the math.  However, that said, Princess is getting it so why not.

 

[jangor]

On 8/11/2021 at 6:58 PM, mellon1 said:

Very good point and well said.  I can't believe people would pay $500 approximately a day for Club Class.  We had it with a suite included.  It is not worth that.  You could go to the specialty restaurant for dinner every night and get an ultimate atmosphere and meal for $60 a day.  I know they have breakfast and lunch, but still.  I wonder if people realize how much more it is or if they have done the math.  However, that said, Princess is getting it so why not.

Who is paying $500 a day for Club Class?  We have always sailed in a mini-suite.  Our choice because of my husband's claustrophobia.  Club Class has cost us less than $20 per day as an extra.  Well worth it.  If people are paying extra $500 per day, it is not for Club Class.  Perhaps they want to be in a suite and pay above interior, but not just for Club Class.

[jangor]

On 8/12/2021 at 7:58 AM, skynight said:

If you enjoy club class mini suites or full suites you should book them. That wasn't the point. The point is that all guests should receive excellent hassle free dining service regardless of their cabin category or ability to use technology. Dining & food is one of the top items discussed on these boards. Look at how many posts contain photos of food. Fail in any part of this area, food, service, frustration and timing to select your dining option(s), your business receives low marks and potential customers will look elsewhere.  Princess is in the hospitality business. A large and probably the most important part of this business is dining and food. Princess seems to have forgotten this important point when trying to automate dining. People are frustrated in these early cruises, but remain patient. If they don't get it together their customers will lose there patience, look elsewhere and Princess' business will suffer.   

I don't know what restaurants are like in your area, but we frequently have to make reservations for dining. Sometimes you get lucky and the time you want is available, but sometimes we have to choose another time.   With approximately 3,000 passengers aboard, it is probably impossible to guarantee that anyone can just walk into the dining room and expect immediate seating.  

 

[HleeCruiser]

20 hours ago, wowzz said:

Well, that should only take about 3 days to sort out!

Seriously,  trying to sort out those logistics for 1000+ diners is a nightmare. 

The app designers should have left TD in place as an option, with a choice of table size, and 90 % of the complaints about dining options would have dissppeared. 

As has been said before,  whoever briefed the app designers did not recognise the attraction of TD. 

Abandoning TD is Princess's fault for  not understanding the desires of their most loyal clients.  

[Tedferg]

5 hours ago, HleeCruiser said:

Abandoning TD is Princess's fault for  not understanding the desires of their most loyal clients.  

What do you mean - abandoning TD - what part is abandoned ?

[Kay S]

4 minutes ago, Tedferg said:

What do you mean - abandoning TD - what part is abandoned ?

Possibly not abandoned (according to reports) but definitely wounded in the short term.

[RNRcruisers]

13 hours ago, Tedferg said:

What do you mean - abandoning TD - what part is abandoned ?

 

I feel like they have abandoned it. It is no longer an option and only time will tell if the new DMW will be a similar substitute.

 

I remember we have had times where we were on a waiting list for TD so it was definitely popular. I really hope they bring it back.