Covid on Iona

[tring]

14 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Well done @Megabear2

 

As you state, considerable noise created internally, but not quite sure the real nub of no insurance coverage was realised quick enough. There was a genuine expectation that insurance would cover.

 

It’s been fed up higher that the existing policy is not very clear to passengers and this is causing concern. There was a rumour today that a Royal Caribbean style Covid-assistance pledge may be on the cards whereby the care team will take care of all costs/arrangements for medical treatments, any land based quarantine, and travel back home. They will then look to your insurance to reimburse the company as much as possible. Insurance will still be requirement of travel.

 

I believe those who had to deal with own costs were the first two Cadiz couples who were offloaded from Iona on the same day. They won’t be out if pocket by the end of the process.
 

Always opportunities to learn and do better.

 

Good and welcome news, thank you.

 

I am wondering though if we there would be be an option to re join a cruise once any quarantine is completed and the people still test negative.  I am thinking of longer cruises to the Caribbean, US/Canadian Eastern seaboard and even world cruises.  If anyone is offloaded soon after the start of those cruises, it would seem to me the loss of the holiday would be a big issue for the people concerned.  If no option to re join the ship, would P&O at least consider a partial refund for the lost part of the holiday?

 

This is something high up in our minds as we were thinking of booking a longer cruise, but have been put off doing so, partly because of that risk

 

[Cruisemeister2002]

On 11/9/2021 at 10:09 AM, Megabear2 said:

If you contract Covid, ie positive PCR test, you will be covered by your Staysure insurance whether ashore or onboard. It is covered under medical. However if your travelling companion is tested negative but removed alongside you they will not be covered under the policy, there is an outside chance of a case by case payout but all hinges on a medical professional stating your removal is essential.  

 

If you have the misfortune to be a close contact of someone who is positive but you are negative and removed then Staysure do not cover you - this could be both you and your travelling companion. The definition of the grey area of "close contact" is what is under discussion. It could be a dining companion, a person on a tour bus, someone in a bar etc. P&O do not have tracking in place onboard unlike some other cruise lines so it is really a very open situation.  

I do believe, instead of confusing jargon either used by an insurer or a cruise company the plain truth should be put in clear and precise words. Judging by this forum there is much confusion. In some or many this may result in even seasoned cruisers that the risk isn't worth it. There's always going to be speculation as to what happened when someone was taken ashore. I do believe it is up to companies like P&O to put passengers minds at rest that if a passenger and his/her partner are put ashore due to Covid, whether either or both has tested positive they will be covered for expenses incurred both for accommodation and food/ medicines and returning to the UK.

[tring]

17 hours ago, Snow Hill said:

Most Port Authorities are not subject to FOI see page 17 section 2.28

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/918508/ports-good-governance-guidance.pdf

 

I meant the Port Health Authority, who deal with health matters.  I posted in response to a comment by DH.  In Merseyside, Port Health is run by Liverpool City Council, set up as a joint venture as the port is within three of their districts, yet the port operation. Is run by Peel Holdings.  Manchester City Council run health for Manchester airport.  DH said he would expect Southampton port Health to be run by Southampton City assuming the port is within the Southampton City area.

 

DH read your link, but reckons it does not appear to be relevant.

 

No matter really anyway as not really important.

Edited November 10, 2021 by tring

[Megabear2]

3 hours ago, tring said:

 

Good and welcome news, thank you.

 

I am wondering though if we there would be be an option to re join a cruise once any quarantine is completed and the people still test negative.  I am thinking of longer cruises to the Caribbean, US/Canadian Eastern seaboard and even world cruises.  If anyone is offloaded soon after the start of those cruises, it would seem to me the loss of the holiday would be a big issue for the people concerned.  If no option to re join the ship, would P&O at least consider a partial refund for the lost part of the holiday?

 

This is something high up in our minds as we were thinking of booking a longer cruise, but have been put off doing so, partly because of that risk

 

Would not your insurance cover curtailment section?  I assume you would take a policy covering your full costs, ie if it was £10,000 each you would buy a policy for that amount times 2.  

[tring]

18 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Would not your insurance cover curtailment section?  I assume you would take a policy covering your full costs, ie if it was £10,000 each you would buy a policy for that amount times 2.  

 

Maybe I am misunderstanding something or have forgotten what was said in previous posts, but I thought the main point was that if someone had not tested positive themselves, but was taken off the ship with someone who was positive, because of contact with that person, then their insurance would not cover them.  If someone is not covered by insurance, I would not have thought an insurance company would pay up for loss of the remaining holiday either.

 

If I have misunderstood this, I apologise.  We were away recently, so will have missed a lot and I am still trying to get life together re washing and other things which need sorted.  Yes we would have good insurance. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by tring

[Megabear2]

36 minutes ago, tring said:

 

Maybe I am misunderstanding something or have forgotten what was said in previous posts, but I thought the main point was that if someone had not tested positive themselves, but was taken off the ship with someone who was positive, because of contact with that person, then their insurance would not cover them.  If someone is not covered by insurance, I would not have thought an insurance company would pay up for loss of the remaining holiday either.

 

If I have misunderstood this, I apologise.  We were away recently, so will have missed a lot and I am still trying to get life together re washing and other things which need sorted.  Yes we would have good insurance. 

Sorry I did not make myself clear.  You are quite right for the negative tester.  However if you read P&O terms and conditions there is a clause covering partial refund for abandonment which we hope will kick in under any new protocols. The positive testing person would be covered under your abandonment section and that's what I meant to say.  We will need to see what the new protocols say before you can get a clearer picture.

[tring]

57 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Sorry I did not make myself clear.  You are quite right for the negative tester.  However if you read P&O terms and conditions there is a clause covering partial refund for abandonment which we hope will kick in under any new protocols. The positive testing person would be covered under your abandonment section and that's what I meant to say.  We will need to see what the new protocols say before you can get a clearer picture.

 

Thanks fro the reply. 

 

I was also thinking if we went on a long cruise and were disembarked near the beginning of the cruise it would be better for us to re join the ship later if that was an option, even if one or both of us had tested positive but recovered, as I would hope we would not be ill for too long given we are triple jabbed.  Probably something to discuss with the cruise line if the situation arose, which is unlikely anyway (well, hopefully so).  I still feel very wary of booking a longer cruise though, but getting older and do not want to loose the chance of taking such journies. 

[Megabear2]

15 hours ago, Cruisemeister2002 said:

I do believe, instead of confusing jargon either used by an insurer or a cruise company the plain truth should be put in clear and precise words. Judging by this forum there is much confusion. In some or many this may result in even seasoned cruisers that the risk isn't worth it. There's always going to be speculation as to what happened when someone was taken ashore. I do believe it is up to companies like P&O to put passengers minds at rest that if a passenger and his/her partner are put ashore due to Covid, whether either or both has tested positive they will be covered for expenses incurred both for accommodation and food/ medicines and returning to the UK.

Regarding Covid the latter is exactly what we hope to hear from P&O/Cunard this week. RCI, Celebrity and Azamara already offer it.  The offloading clause has always been there in contracts  but many never read the terms and conditions they sign up to.  Since the advent of online booking the vast majority never even know where to find their booking terms and, more to the point, never actually care about finding them. In the old days of paper brochures the terms were there in black and white and readily available so more people read them even if they weren't sure what they were reading. A form of  laziness has crept in because of the ease of using the internet - I haven't  got time etc. 

 

The same applies to any insurance of any kind. How many are guilty of just doing a price comparison, picking a decent looking price and noting a few 5 star reviews?  Probably the majority yet in most cases the 5 star review is for the sales process not making a claim.

 

The insurer provides on his website the full policy of insurance, probably running into a hundred or more pages. All the information is there but most do not read it saying its too long and time consuming.  There's also by law a key document, normally a couple of pages long with two columns showing what is covered in one and what is not in the other.  If you have a scenario in your head but can't see it mentioned in this document the only way to get certainty is to speak to the company by telephone, email or chat and ask the question (keeping a record). Basic rule of thumb: if its not clearly listed here it most likely isn't covered.

 

The fact is the insurance companies cannot be blamed for our failure to do due diligence, they do provide the information at the point before purchase and we have to ensure we read it, understand exactly what we are purchasing and ask questions if we do not.  Unfortunately the Internet has made us all our own brokers whether we like it or not.  If we misell ourselves a product then we cannot expect to blame the insurers or underwriters.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Megabear2
Sense

[bamfordsbeans]

Very interested to read this thread.

We are due to go on Iona in March but are unlikely to go ahead due to our experience on a recent Fred Olsen cruise.

After 6 days there was a mandatory test for all passengers.As we had no symptoms my wife and I were

amazed when we were both tested positive. Two days isolating on board Borealis was followed by 10 days isolating in a hotel near Cadiz(the two days on board were not counted).

Cruise companies seem to be very vague on their policies and it is something potential passengers need to be aware of.

[terrierjohn]

44 minutes ago, bamfordsbeans said:

Very interested to read this thread.

We are due to go on Iona in March but are unlikely to go ahead due to our experience on a recent Fred Olsen cruise.

After 6 days there was a mandatory test for all passengers.As we had no symptoms my wife and I were

amazed when we were both tested positive. Two days isolating on board Borealis was followed by 10 days isolating in a hotel near Cadiz(the two days on board were not counted).

Cruise companies seem to be very vague on their policies and it is something potential passengers need to be aware of.

If you dont mind me asking,were you able to reclaim all your extra quarantine and repatriation costs, and from whom? In addition did Fred compensate you for the missed part of your cruise, in cash or FCC?

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, bamfordsbeans said:

Very interested to read this thread.

We are due to go on Iona in March but are unlikely to go ahead due to our experience on a recent Fred Olsen cruise.

After 6 days there was a mandatory test for all passengers.As we had no symptoms my wife and I were

amazed when we were both tested positive. Two days isolating on board Borealis was followed by 10 days isolating in a hotel near Cadiz(the two days on board were not counted).

Cruise companies seem to be very vague on their policies and it is something potential passengers need to be aware of.

Sorry to hear of your experience and hope you made swift recoveries.  As you say you were positive I assume your insurance paid out under the medical section.  If you don't mind me asking how far into your cruise were you at this point of offloading?  I assume your insurance would have paid out for curtailment and issued a percentage of your fare back? That being the case did Fred offer any compensation or refund or did they insist on you claiming on your insurance direct?

 

Cadiz is gaining quite a reputation for this - P&O also had passengers offloaded there but in their case they had negative test results and the the insurance did not pay.

 

As you have read here, we are trying to get at least the Carnival Group companies to offer some sort of buyer beware notice in their policies.  Unfortunately even if this and a comfort clause is included it is not going to be in the cruise companies' power to guarantee some ports will not insist on offloading positive passengers and possibly negative companions.  The best we can hope for is a promise the cruise line will look after you and sort out the finances.  

 

Basically in the covid age era each individual needs to weigh up their attitude to the risk (which is very small so far), ensure they have the very best insurance and be prepared in the worst scenario to possibly be flown home after a minimum 10 day quarantine.

 

Every cruise line has its own terms and conditions and again I emphasise read them in detail before deciding to travel.  

[bamfordsbeans]

The insurance company covered the hotel costs which came to £4000.00

My wife spent 5 hours to the insurance company last week without them answering.

Fortunately they have now replied by e-mail and we are waiting their response.

Fred Olsen will not give any compensation for the 6 days of the cruise that was curtailed.

 

[Cruisemeister2002]

4 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Regarding Covid the latter is exactly what we hope to hear from P&O/Cunard this week. RCI, Celebrity and Azamara already offer it.  The offloading clause has always been there in contracts  but many never read the terms and conditions they sign up to.  Since the advent of online booking the vast majority never even know where to find their booking terms and, more to the point, never actually care about finding them. In the old days of paper brochures the terms were there in black and white and readily available so more people read them even if they weren't sure what they were reading. A form of  laziness has crept in because of the ease of using the internet - I haven't  got time etc. 

 

The same applies to any insurance of any kind. How many are guilty of just doing a price comparison, picking a decent looking price and noting a few 5 star reviews?  Probably the majority yet in most cases the 5 star review is for the sales process not making a claim.

 

The insurer provides on his website the full policy of insurance, probably running into a hundred or more pages. All the information is there but most do not read it saying its too long and time consuming.  There's also by law a key document, normally a couple of pages long with two columns showing what is covered in one and what is not in the other.  If you have a scenario in your head but can't see it mentioned in this document the only way to get certainty is to speak to the company by telephone, email or chat and ask the question (keeping a record). Basic rule of thumb: if its not clearly listed here it most likely isn't covered.

 

The fact is the insurance companies cannot be blamed for our failure to do due diligence, they do provide the information at the point before purchase and we have to ensure we read it, understand exactly what we are purchasing and ask questions if we do not.  Unfortunately the Internet has made us all our own brokers whether we like it or not.  If we misell ourselves a product then we cannot expect to blame the insurers or underwriters.

I agree with most of what you say. One thing I will say though is that having watched numerous consumer type programs it is obvious that many people believe they have cover for something when they don't and this is not as you say "Because they don't read the terms and conditions". Take for instance my insurance is through Staysure. One of their headlines is "We automatically give Covid cover on our policy" Yes they do. But I contacted them with regards to this current issue with passengers taken ashore and quarantined either by the cruise line or local authorities and was told "We only cover for isolation and not for quarantine ashore" As I say P&O need to clarify what they will do for passengers should the worst happen and they are put ashore with their partner whether both or one of them tests positive. I do believe it's in P&O's interests in the long run. Because if this situation continues many more will consider whether cruise travel is worth it.

[Megabear2]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I understand that several other passengers were offloaded at Cadiz, some of whom were negative but considered close contacts.  Do you have any information on what happened to them, please?

 

I note the hotel costs were covered by the insurance which is good. I assume there were other medical costs for testing etc and repatriation costs and assume that these were agreed upfront so you did not have to pay upfront and reclaim?

 

I'm shocked there is no curtailment element from Fred, is there anything due under your insurance as far as you are aware?

[Megabear2]

4 minutes ago, Cruisemeister2002 said:

I agree with most of what you say. One thing I will say though is that having watched numerous consumer type programs it is obvious that many people believe they have cover for something when they don't and this is not as you say "Because they don't read the terms and conditions". Take for instance my insurance is through Staysure. One of their headlines is "We automatically give Covid cover on our policy" Yes they do. But I contacted them with regards to this current issue with passengers taken ashore and quarantined either by the cruise line or local authorities and was told "We only cover for isolation and not for quarantine ashore" As I say P&O need to clarify what they will do for passengers should the worst happen and they are put ashore with their partner whether both or one of them tests positive. I do believe it's in P&O's interests in the long run. Because if this situation continues many more will consider whether cruise travel is worth it.

I do understand your frustration, but can only say your idea of full cover and the underwriters may be totally different.  It's a minefield, not just in travel insurance but all other types of insurance.

 

You mention consumer programs: sadly a lot of these are there to paint a bad picture of a situation, almost car crash tv.  One of the reasons I wanted to avoid the suggestions of Martin Lewis and Simon Calder is because a short section with Angela Ripon or whoever does not examine the full facts, merely offers a snapshot in time. 

 

As I said many pages back, this particular issue sprang to my mind purely because of the amount of people having to quarantine home and abroad.  I hit on it by luck really but have sought to warn people wherever possible.  We may be discussing cruising BUT these rules can affect you on land based holidays too.  

 

The market did not offer any Covid cover at all last year, it has evolved to where we are, it will evolve again and in time these things will get covered.  Travel insurance policies have to cover many forms of travel, cruises are literally an add on you can buy.  There are specialists for age, medical conditions etc., maybe the cruise companies will consider finding a company for their products but for now we are stuck with what's available.

[terrierjohn]

46 minutes ago, bamfordsbeans said:

The insurance company covered the hotel costs which came to £4000.00

My wife spent 5 hours to the insurance company last week without them answering.

Fortunately they have now replied by e-mail and we are waiting their response.

Fred Olsen will not give any compensation for the 6 days of the cruise that was curtailed.

 

Glad to hear that your insurer paid for the hotel costs, what about return air fare etc?

I am surprised that Fred Olsen have not offered compensation for the missed part of your cruise, are you claiming from your insurer under the curtailment of your trip clause?

[Astrajet]

32 minutes ago, Cruisemeister2002 said:

Take for instance my insurance is through Staysure. One of their headlines is "We automatically give Covid cover on our policy" Yes they do. But I contacted them with regards to this current issue with passengers taken ashore and quarantined either by the cruise line or local authorities and was told "We only cover for isolation and not for quarantine ashore"

This is very concerning with quarantine hotel charges of £4000.00 being quoted! 

[yorkshirephil]

1 minute ago, Astrajet said:

This is very concerning with quarantine hotel charges of £4000.00 being quoted! 

I agree, even with flights included. Small wonder the port wants to take people off the ship, nice little earner.

[Splice the mainbrace]

I'm surprised by the ports, I would have thought that the last thing that they wanted was allowing infected or potentially infected people into their country to quarantine when they don't need to (unless seriously ill).

Hopefully after this winter the multiple testing will stop in general and the attitude to it will be like other illnesses such as flu.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Splice the mainbrace

[bamfordsbeans]

The Spanish Authorities said we could leave the hotel and fly home after our 10 days were up.

Our insurance company said they would send a doctor to do another test once the 10 days were up.

If we were negative they would then look into arranging flights for us.If we were still positive (I understand about 30% of people still are -although not infectious) we would have to do another 10 days of isolation.

After a very stressful few hours we decided to book our own flights and with Fred Olsens port agent arranging a taxi for us.This was all at our own expense (the taxi cost more than the flights) and we are trying to claim this back together with the part of the cruise we were unable to enjoy.

[bamfordsbeans]

Just to add it was fortunate that my wife had taken her I-Pad and were able to book the flights ourselves.

Not everybody is able to do this.

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, yorkshirephil said:

I agree, even with flights included. Small wonder the port wants to take people off the ship, nice little earner.

Even an old cynic like me thinks that is a little unfair. 

How does the port benefit from the hotel costs  ?

And £4000 over 10 nights for two people,  is in line  with the costs  charged  by the UK government for hotel quarantine. 

[Cruisemeister2002]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

I do understand your frustration, but can only say your idea of full cover and the underwriters may be totally different.  It's a minefield, not just in travel insurance but all other types of insurance.

 

You mention consumer programs: sadly a lot of these are there to paint a bad picture of a situation, almost car crash tv.  One of the reasons I wanted to avoid the suggestions of Martin Lewis and Simon Calder is because a short section with Angela Ripon or whoever does not examine the full facts, merely offers a snapshot in time. 

 

As I said many pages back, this particular issue sprang to my mind purely because of the amount of people having to quarantine home and abroad.  I hit on it by luck really but have sought to warn people wherever possible.  We may be discussing cruising BUT these rules can affect you on land based holidays too.  

 

The market did not offer any Covid cover at all last year, it has evolved to where we are, it will evolve again and in time these things will get covered.  Travel insurance policies have to cover many forms of travel, cruises are literally an add on you can buy.  There are specialists for age, medical conditions etc., maybe the cruise companies will consider finding a company for their products but for now we are stuck with what's available.

With regards to consumer programs I agree. They have a few minutes, half an hour or maybe an hour to process several problems. One thing that does stand out though is that in 8 out of 10 cases a settlement is made and classed as a "Goodwill gesture" this is just words to say there's no liability which we will admit to. But they are liable. People shouldn't have to threaten with or actually contact these programs to get what is rightfully theirs. I suppose at the end of the day why we get pages and pages of literature to view or not as the case may be is because the Insurance Companies are legally bound to have them and to rather than cover you for every aspect of a cruise or whatever, but to cover themselves.

[Dermotsgirl]

22 minutes ago, bamfordsbeans said:

The Spanish Authorities said we could leave the hotel and fly home after our 10 days were up.

Our insurance company said they would send a doctor to do another test once the 10 days were up.

If we were negative they would then look into arranging flights for us.If we were still positive (I understand about 30% of people still are -although not infectious) we would have to do another 10 days of isolation.

After a very stressful few hours we decided to book our own flights and with Fred Olsens port agent arranging a taxi for us.This was all at our own expense (the taxi cost more than the flights) and we are trying to claim this back together with the part of the cruise we were unable to enjoy.

Thank you for sharing your experiences. Please let us know how you get on with your insurance claim.

 

Yesterday, I commented on a different thread that I would find being offloaded at an overseas port to be very stressful indeed. Then there’s the additional stress of sorting out all the admin afterwards, and wondering if you’ll end up losing out financially.

 

Prior to reading your experiences, I had felt that overseas cruises wasn’t for me at this time. After reading your account of events, that has reinforced my view. 
 

As I also said yesterday, everyone will make their own decisions, but I think it’d be a good idea if people put themselves in your shoes and have an honest think about how they would feel if it happened to them 

 

[tring]

29 minutes ago, bamfordsbeans said:

The Spanish Authorities said we could leave the hotel and fly home after our 10 days were up.

Our insurance company said they would send a doctor to do another test once the 10 days were up.

If we were negative they would then look into arranging flights for us.If we were still positive (I understand about 30% of people still are -although not infectious) we would have to do another 10 days of isolation.

After a very stressful few hours we decided to book our own flights and with Fred Olsens port agent arranging a taxi for us.This was all at our own expense (the taxi cost more than the flights) and we are trying to claim this back together with the part of the cruise we were unable to enjoy.

 

Thank you for sharing this information.  I hope you are successful in your further claims. 

 

Can I ask which cruise you were on and which ship?