Why the Cancellations??

[Hlitner]

10 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Hank you are the eternal optimist  & it works for you . 

We are in  our  80s & we are just recovering from   the omnicron  variant .We had been vaccinated & got theraputic  meds to help us .I can honestly tell you we would not want to get ill again . What we went through was very unpleasant 

 

Certainly we love to cruise again & if thing change we would be cruising ,so we will see how it all works out by summer before we make our final decision . You  know the saying once bitten 

You have our best wishes for a full and speedy recovery.  Omicron seems to have reared its ugly head everywhere (including on cruise ships).  When DW and I flew to Mexico (our winter home) it was with the knowledge that we could easily contract Omicron despite being fully vaccinated (including a booster) despite our best efforts to minimize our risk.  On the other hand, if we had stayed home we also could have contracted Omicron (nearly all of our family/extended family apparently had Omicron in recent weeks).  Given a choice of having Omicron at our US home or here in our Mexican home we did not see much down side of being in Mexico :).   But no way would I want to have that ailment on a cruise ship and be confined to a tiny cabin.  

 

All that being said I have asked the somewhat rhetorical question of what will be different 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, etc. from now?  That is the underlying thinking that convinced us (nearly a year ago) to return to our normal life (to the extent that it can be done with COVID).  Waiting around our US home with the thought that we will just wait until this situation improves is akin to "Waiting for Godot."  Consider that we are 2 years into this Pandemic with more COVID cases then at anytime in the past 2 years....despite vaccines and therapeutics.  Two years from now we may even have more COVID cases then now with some other variant (or even new virus).  The statement that This is more likely than not" is not far fetched.   Since we are seniors we do not have the luxury of time to sit around for a few more years in the hopes that the world disease situation improves.  In fact the cat is truly out of the bag and governments may well move to lock downs for just about anything from an epidemic of ingrown toenails to the flu.  

 

Hank

[LocoLoco1]

I remain booked. My Monitored TestKit from HAL's health partner, Optum, arrives within days now. Dr's letter in hand. Many more hoops lie dead ahead to jump through before my sail-away Cocktail. A THOUGHT: Common sense says that especially now Air needs to be booked thru HAL.... for what if they merge cruises/change the embarkation date etc etc at last minute. That would entail a new flight, a new testing regimen as well. Hmm.

[Red Haired Lady]

9 hours ago, Hlitner said:

My suggestion to those debating whether to book a cruise is that they first look inside themselves and resolve whether they can travel in this COVID world without having all kinds of doubts and 2nd thoughts.  DW and I have had a lot of fun on our 3 recent cruises (and our winter in Puerto Vallarta) because we have been able to accept (for about a year) that COVID is just one more risk (life has many risks) that we can handle.  But not everyone can mentally deal with the risk (many call this risk tolerance) and failure to accept the risk will likely mean you will have a miserable time when traveling.

 

That is very well stated.  And so very true.  I have also enjoyed my 3 cruises since August and just made payment on a TA cruise for March.  Everyone has a different comfort level. You have to be able to deal with things changing and go with the flow.  

[happyglobetrotter]

22 hours ago, leerathje said:

 

I'm 55 and I have cancelled two cruises lately...one for December 1, 2021 and one for February 23, 2022. What with the hoops that Canadians have to jump through to cross the border just to get there....I have NO DESIRE to spend a cruise (and my holidays from work, as I'm not retired) or a portion of, in quarantine.

 

I'm not a "lay in the sun" kind of person.  I take a cruise to see the ports, not sit on a boat and do nothing. I'd book an all-inclusive in Mexico if I wanted to do that.

 

That being said, I support COVID guidance and restrictions.  It's not just Omicorn out there, but Delta is still floating around as well.  Even though Omicron appears to be less lethal, there are still those fully vaccinated getting sick and being hospitalized. I'd rather it not be me.

 

L.

 

I am Canadian too. we arrived here by plane mid Dec... no problem, And, we have been sailing and enjoying ourselves since Dec. We are returning home in May. We have friends sick in Canada... so we have decided to come and have fun. Here or there, the virus is everywhere. Not a reason to stay home. 

[mcrcruiser]

1 hour ago, happyglobetrotter said:

I am Canadian too. we arrived here by plane mid Dec... no problem, And, we have been sailing and enjoying ourselves since Dec. We are returning home in May. We have friends sick in Canada... so we have decided to come and have fun. Here or there, the virus is everywhere. Not a reason to stay home. 

Wishing you the best of luck  for your travels

[leerathje]

58 minutes ago, happyglobetrotter said:

I am Canadian too. we arrived here by plane mid Dec... no problem, And, we have been sailing and enjoying ourselves since Dec. We are returning home in May. We have friends sick in Canada... so we have decided to come and have fun. Here or there, the virus is everywhere. Not a reason to stay home. 

 

Obviously you are retired, if you get to hang out somewhere warm until May.  As I said previously, I'm not, and I have a sum total of 3 weeks holidays annually.  My situation is TOTALLY different than yours.

 

We had planned an 11 day Southern Caribbean cruise.  I live in a small community on Vancouver Island and have to drive an hour to Nanaimo to get a COVID test. DH refuses a red eye, so we have to get our COVID test the day before we leave, at $100 per person. Hope there's no problems with the COVID test, and get on the plane at 6:00 am.  Then from here to Calgary, Toronto, and (cross fingers for the COVID test) arrive Fort Lauderdale around 9:00 pm (and hope there's no snowstorms in the middle of winter).

 

I'm not interested in spending 2/3 of my annual holidays quarantined in a room, verandah or not. 

 

L.

 

[bennybear]

4 hours ago, leerathje said:

 

Obviously you are retired, if you get to hang out somewhere warm until May.  As I said previously, I'm not, and I have a sum total of 3 weeks holidays annually.  My situation is TOTALLY different than yours.

 

We had planned an 11 day Southern Caribbean cruise.  I live in a small community on Vancouver Island and have to drive an hour to Nanaimo to get a COVID test. DH refuses a red eye, so we have to get our COVID test the day before we leave, at $100 per person. Hope there's no problems with the COVID test, and get on the plane at 6:00 am.  Then from here to Calgary, Toronto, and (cross fingers for the COVID test) arrive Fort Lauderdale around 9:00 pm (and hope there's no snowstorms in the middle of winter).

 

I'm not interested in spending 2/3 of my annual holidays quarantined in a room, verandah or not. 

 

L.

 

So true, it’s definitely not one size fits all!  Everyone’s situation is different and I’m getting tired of the ignore it and live your life crowd who don’t get that it’s not the same for everyone.  I don’t wish ill on anyone but risks have to be considered in light of each personal situation.  That’s only prudent.   I’ve read of far too many getting sick abroad and having to quarantine,  and that may be the least of this.   Insurance is also a huge influencer.   

[PSR]

23 hours ago, LocoLoco1 said:

Common sense says that especially now Air needs to be booked thru HAL.... for what if they merge cruises/change the embarkation date etc etc at last minute. That would entail a new flight, a new testing regimen as well. Hmm.

 

Is that because if you book through HAL, they will help you rebook and there are no fees to change, or another reason?

Edited January 26, 2022 by PSR

[Nymich]

On 1/24/2022 at 12:25 PM, Hlitner said:

So lets go back to the original topic of "why cancel?"  As one who has been traveling (extensively since last July) and taken 3 cruises (48 days) in the last 6 months I think the answer is pretty obvious.  The cruise lines all planned on a "soft opening" when they gradually resumed operations.  Ships were generally operating far below capacity because of a combination of soft bookings and government mandates.  The CDC Guidelines are no longer mandatory and there are no more government mandates (regarding capacity) so the cruise lines are on their own.  But bookings have continued to be soft and Omicron has caused lots of on board issues with both passengers and crew.  Add to this the big increase in fuel cost (a major expense item for any ship) and increases in nearly all commodities (especially food).  There have also been numerous problems with ports who refuse docking to ships with too many COVID cases.

 

Put all this together and the cruise lines have again been reducing operations to trim costs and also deal with crew shortages due to COVID and related issues (most crew must quarantine for 10-14 days when they arrive on a ship for their contract).    Some cruise lines (such as Seabourn and MSC) have tried to continue with their schedule while other lines such as RCI have reduced the number of cruises (including last minute cancelations).  

 

For those who have been staying home and delaying trips/cruises I will suggest that traveling these days is a mixed bag.  And many folks seem to be having problems dealing with their own demons (i.e. Covid Phobia) which results in them canceling or not even booking any cruises/trips.  We live in a major cruise port (Puerto Vallarta) during the winter and have actually had friends who came here for the winter change their minds (within 2 weeks) and head home as they simply could not cope with their own Covid Phobia.  Lets be honest....traveling and cruising is not fun if you are afraid to go out of your cabin, eat in a restaurant, relax at a bar, etc.

 

My suggestion to those debating whether to book a cruise is that they first look inside themselves and resolve whether they can travel in this COVID world without having all kinds of doubts and 2nd thoughts.  DW and I have had a lot of fun on our 3 recent cruises (and our winter in Puerto Vallarta) because we have been able to accept (for about a year) that COVID is just one more risk (life has many risks) that we can handle.  But not everyone can mentally deal with the risk (many call this risk tolerance) and failure to accept the risk will likely mean you will have a miserable time when traveling.

 

Hank

Well said Hank.  We are onboard right now completing our 5th cruise back for 46 days so similar numbers to you.

My feelings is this is not for everyone.  I have had to accept port changes and entertainment reductions as well during this last wave.  No expectations is a good starting point imo.  This is not the same as pre covid for sure.

[Cruizer Diana]

On 1/24/2022 at 6:04 PM, LocoLoco1 said:

I remain booked. My Monitored TestKit from HAL's health partner, Optum, arrives within days now. Dr's letter in hand. Many more hoops lie dead ahead to jump through before my sail-away Cocktail. A THOUGHT: Common sense says that especially now Air needs to be booked thru HAL.... for what if they merge cruises/change the embarkation date etc etc at last minute. That would entail a new flight, a new testing regimen as well. Hmm.

Air booked through HAL has its advantages, but just be aware that even if HAL allows you to cancel your cruise at a late date, they will automatically cancel your flight and they will not refund your air fare. 

[mikebsxm]

13 hours ago, PSR said:

 

Is that because if you book through HAL, they will help you rebook and there are no fees to change, or another reason?

If you book your air connections directly with an airline, you must pay for your flights at the time of booking.  If you have to cancel your cruise later, you may have a problem getting your airfare returned because you are dealing directly with the airline.  

If you book your air with HAL using Flight Ease, you do not have to pay for your air until the final payment date for the cruise.  If your cruise is cancelled or you decide to cancel, your deposit is refunded and you do not lose any money with the air bookings, they are cancelled together.   If you want to change your flights, you can do so with no penalties up to final payment date.  You can pay for your HAL booked airfare upfront, but it is not required.   In all of my bookings with Flight Ease, I have never had my fare increased.

[LocoLoco1]

I remain booked. I am confident I won’t cancel, however, I want some simplicity should the CRUISELINE cancel or the wheels fall off my pre-boarding Covid Tests. HAL’s new/improved cancellation policy, IMHO, makes FlightEase less attractive. 

[mcrcruiser]

21 hours ago, bennybear said:

So true, it’s definitely not one size fits all!  Everyone’s situation is different and I’m getting tired of the ignore it and live your life crowd who don’t get that it’s not the same for everyone.  I don’t wish ill on anyone but risks have to be considered in light of each personal situation.  That’s only prudent.   I’ve read of far too many getting sick abroad and having to quarantine,  and that may be the least of this.   Insurance is also a huge influencer.   

We agree  one shoe does not fit all . A definite concern of ours is the fact that the cruise lines are accepting the antigen test which have had false negatives  .The only true test for  covid is the PCR test .The problem is that it cannot be done with written results in just 2 days .3 days is common for results . I  feel that the reason for more cases aboard ships is this antigen test   .The cruise lines should pre pare for the more solid testing imo  .Additionally  the only masks that really work are N95 & Kn 95  masks  properly warn  & removed  .Anything else is just a   fancy cover

[Nymich]

3 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

 Additionally  the only masks that really work are N95 & Kn 95  masks  properly warn  & removed  .Anything else is just a   fancy cover

Start a fire........put it out........

[mcrcruiser]

2 minutes ago, Nymich said:

Start a fire........put it out........

What do you mean ?

[AKJonesy]

On 1/24/2022 at 10:20 AM, KAKcruiser said:

I'm willing to risk getting covid.  However, I'm not sure if I want to risk being quarantined for 10 days.

Exactly. It's like rolling the dice 3 times on testing and hope you pass all 3 times. Reading the posts from those in quarantine sounds terrible.

[mcrcruiser]

6 minutes ago, AKJonesy said:

Exactly. It's like rolling the dice 3 times on testing and hope you pass all 3 times. Reading the posts from those in quarantine sounds terrible.

imo it is because the antigen testing is certainly not fool proof . some day the cruise lines will wise up & go to the PCR tests  .Then the odds will vastly improve

[wdw1972]

1 hour ago, mcrcruiser said:

imo it is because the antigen testing is certainly not fool proof . some day the cruise lines will wise up & go to the PCR tests  .Then the odds will vastly improve

PCR tests wouldn't make sense.  Not only do they take longer, they measure that you have at least some trace of covid in your system but don't measure whether you're infectious to other people or not.  The antigen tests whether your infectious (able to infect others), which is why people without symptoms sometimes get a false negative but then turn positive when symptoms appear a day later.  We're considered to be infectious up to 5 days, which is why that's the quarantine/isolation period.  Beyond that, who cares who "has covid" - if they can't spread it they're no danger to any of the rest of us.

 

Sue/WDW1972

[mcrcruiser]

18 minutes ago, wdw1972 said:

PCR tests wouldn't make sense.  Not only do they take longer, they measure that you have at least some trace of covid in your system but don't measure whether you're infectious to other people or not.  The antigen tests whether your infectious (able to infect others), which is why people without symptoms sometimes get a false negative but then turn positive when symptoms appear a day later.  We're considered to be infectious up to 5 days, which is why that's the quarantine/isolation period.  Beyond that, who cares who "has covid" - if they can't spread it they're no danger to any of the rest of us.

 

Sue/WDW1972

Then perhaps the cruise lines should use both tests  before boarding  .  Now we understand their is another new variant & cases are already happening in Washington State & Texas . We just haven't heard how dangerous this variant  will become .

 

 Oh only got those good old days back again & the only thing  you needed to do was pack & get to the cruise terminal  .sigh !

Edited January 26, 2022 by mcrcruiser

[bennybear]

25 minutes ago, wdw1972 said:

We're considered to be infectious up to 5 days, which is why that's the quarantine/isolation period.  Beyond that, who cares who "has covid" - if they can't spread it they're no danger to any of the rest of us.

I have read of instances of much longer periods of  being infectious,   unfortunately. 

[Nymich]

2 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

imo it is because the antigen testing is certainly not fool proof . some day the cruise lines will wise up & go to the PCR tests  .Then the odds will vastly improve

The cruise lines will lose alot of business from those currently cruising if they do that.......and they know it.  PCR tests are more expensive and that cost will be passed on to the customer.  In addition the time lag makes it a problem.

[LocoLoco1]

9 hours ago, bennybear said:

I have read of instances of much longer periods of  being infectious,   unfortunately. 

You are correct. News today was of someone who was vaccinated yet had Covid multiple times, the last time Omicron. PCR Tests are quite sensitive and antigen less so. 

[jakers]

We have done (3) seven day cruises since the restart and will be getting on the Carnival Panorama on Saturday the 29th (fingers crossed). We just finished booking a BTB on the Noordam in August. I am self-employed, work when I have to, and live close to the port. For me, the risks are greatly diminished. If I don't make it onto the cruise, I just go back to work on Monday. I fully understand that the people who have to fly across country or from another country would not be willing to accept the risk. The testing is tricky enough for me. PCR test on Thursday, Abbott Binaxnow proctored test on standby if we don't get the results of the PCR test by Saturday morning. Anything pops up positive, we don't get to go. By now, most of the people on this board are aware of the hoops to jump through and the risks of cruising, but we are in the minority. The cruise lines need to get everybody else back onboard.

Quite frankly, it's the "everybody else" that worry me, not the posters on this board.

[LocoLoco1]

I remain booked. HAL’s survey of ‘Why are you cancelling?’ would be a good read methinks. I suspect it often comes down to ‘Too much bother’ and ‘Don’t wanna risk an on board quarantine.’  Some reports of 30% occupancy? … yikes. 

[Oceanwench]

On 1/22/2022 at 10:55 AM, mikebsxm said:

My biggest concern cruising now is the disaster that happened on the NCL Gem 10 day cruise from New York to the Caribbean on Jan 9.  The only port that would allow them to dock was St. Maarten.  All other ports denied the ship's entry.  They had an overnight in St. Maarten and a slow cruise back to NY.  That would be my concern cruising now.  Yes, they got their money back, probably as future credits, but not a great way to blow a 10 day vacation.

 

I know someone who was on that sailing. It was her first cruise, and she had a blast!
She said it was a great vacation -- open bar, great food, some entertainment and all for free!
She got a complete refund and FCC of 50 percent of what her cruise cost. 

I believe the cruise was cut short, and they had 7 days on the ship.