Don't be afraid to try things on your own!

[Hlitner]

I enjoy monitoring this board and reading everyone's advice. A few years ago I used to contribute lots of help here for those who wanted advice on how to do any of the European ports on their own (we have been to most of these places multiple times). I stopped most of my help because I got tired of being flamed by others who insisted that the only way to do anything is on an organized tour (this is true for some folks). However, given the very high price of tours (the low value dollar does not help) I am surprised to see almost everyone resigned to tours. Western Europe is pretty easy to navigate on your own although it helps to do some homework. The advantage of being on your own is you avoid the "cattle like" mentality of some tours, get to do what you want when you want with who you want, and usually you will save money. In fact, on a 12 day Med cruise you can easily save over $1000 (or more) by doing things independent of tours. The down side of independent travel is that you do need to do your pre-trip homework,, but to some of us that is part of the fun. My main problem with most tours is that they try to crowd too much "touring" into a short period of time without giving you a chance to see the real Europe. A lot of the joy of visiting some cities (Rome, Paris, etc) is spending time at an outdoor cafe enjoying local cuisine, wine and people watching (this is how many Europeans enjoy themselves). Personally, when in Rome I would quickly give-up seeing some site in order to have time for lunch or a snack at one of the cafes in the Piazza Navona. But, I guess this is where the "different strokes for different folks" saying reigns surpreme.

 

Hank

[wwinfl91]

While I agree with you that "doing it on your own" can be significantly less expensive than doing either ship arranged or private tours, I think the one thing everyone who tries it needs to keep in mind and that is "make sure you get back to your ship on-time (i.e. before it sails to the next port)".

 

I also do a lot of research before we take any trip or cruise. And as my wife can verify, I like to save money as much as anyone. But we have decided on most of our cruises to take organized tours of some sort especially on our first visit to a port, area or country. It allows us to get oriented and to better understand where we need to go and what we need to do in that particular environment.

 

Please don't consider this a "flame" of your endosement of independent travel. I just feel everyone needs to be very aware of the fact that the ship will not wait for them if they are late getting back from an independent tour where it will for the ship arranged tours if they are late.

 

Hopefully we will try more excursions on our own on future trips to the Med or other areas.

 

Have a great next cruise.

[Learning the ropes]

Thanks Hlitner - our family of five is doing a med cruise in May. Even the cost of organizing our own tours (no cost sharing when you are one family!) is still very expensive - so we will be the ones taking the buses, trains and even rental cars.

 

As you say the fun is in the planning. Any tour trying to combine, for example, Nice, Eze, St. Paul and Monaco all in one day would be nothing more than a drive- by photo shoot in my opinion! We have taken the land tour vacations - you know..."if it's Tuesday...." I would rather spend a full day in one town, soak up the atmosphere and not feel the need to rush off to the next stop.

[Hlitner]

When it comes to the "missing the ship syndrome" I do hear you! We have been on over a dozen European cruises (I will not boast with the real number) and done probably a hundred port days on our own without ever missing a ship. We have come close on two ocassions., but that is another story. We recently snokeled on the Great Barrier Reef and some friends of ours ask weren't we worried about the sharks! We have also hiked in Zion National Park along some narrow cliffs. There is risk to everything and missing a ship, although not pleasent, would not be the end of the world. In fact, we actually have cut it close getting to ships when we know we could easily catch-up the next day (Livorno to Monte Carlo is a good example). When you do go far away from the ship on your own (we have often gone over 100 miles), you should always go the furthest place first and use some common sense on getting back to the area of the ship in plenty of time. For example, if you are in Livorno and decide to do Florence and Pisa on your own, go to Florence first and than stop in Pisa on the way back (only 20 min from the ship). On the other hand, if you are one of those that worries about everything, than by all means take the tour. For me, life is too much fun and too darn short to waste time worrying about all the "what ifs?" Geez, its kind of like the folks that line-up a half hour before their first sitting cause they are worried they will run out of food or someone will take their seats (smile).

 

Hank

[Jane110]

Hlitner,

 

I've also been on these boards for years and have seen the "tour vs independent travel" points of view. I don't doubt your word, but I've never seen or can't imagine anyone being flamed because they feel travelling independently is better.

 

DH and I are simply not "tour folks", we've been all around the world on our own and are quite comfortable doing so, but the truth is, some people want an organized tour.. They don't want to spend months planning and looking, (often that's why they take a cruise!) they don't want to worry about getting back to the ship ontime, they're nervous about not speaking a foreign language, terrified of going into a restauarant and being intimidated by the menu and afraid of getting on a bus or into a taxi in an unknown city. That's the part of travel we love.....but hey, that's what makes horse races!

 

When possible, I try to encourage some people to take a step toward independant travel in really "easy" cities like Cadiz, Spain or Copenhagen. But then other places, where train travel to the city is involved, or a city is known for tourist rip-offs, I ease off, knowing that some people will be nervous and uncomfortable.

 

I'm not flaming you or referring to your posts, but I think that sometimes, the flaming can start when people have kind of an "attitude" about those who really need to take a tour. It can come off as a "hipper than thou" and people who want a tour end up being put down for their choices. Again, I'm not saying that YOU have ever done this, but I've seen it happen.

[SaylorGirl]

Hlitner - I agree with you. We are of the "do your homework" and do it yourself. We aren't necessary doing it to "save money" but I can not imagine being "herded" into a bus and following a tour guide around. Its not for me. I think most people get a guide or go on a tour because they are afraid.

 

As one person pointed out missing the ship could be a problem. We are careful in areas where there is a sea day the next day, or it would be a real problem to catch up, such as leaving Russia, we had extra time in our plans. But in Europe most of the next ports are just a overnight train ride away. We always take our passports with us, and money just in case.

[DonLou]

Sadly, Hank, to cruise is to compromise. There is always that big hammer over your head that you have to be conscious of --- need to get back to the ship on time. This limits the options available.

 

As you stated, research is important. I remember the "old days" of research when a person had to visit the public library to use a three-year old out-of-date travel guide as a research tool. It's easier nowadays with the internet. Still, there's no guarantee that the research will match the reality. (Thank God).

 

The "real Europe" you speak of is not one that can be experienced off a cruise ship. It can only be done through an independent and land-based trek. But I definitely hear you. Europe is so much more than a major site within two hours traveling distance from port on a tour bus.:(

[cberge]

Hey Hank...glad to see you back on the boards!!!:D

[KCSungirl]

Hank,

 

I am the person that wants to do everything on my own, but I lack the confidence to do that in some cities in Europe. I am intimidated by the language barrier and money exchange, and paranoid about being ripped off or robbed. Can you help me over come this problem? Do you have a 12 step program? ;-)

 

I travel independently everywhere in the US, Mexico, Canada, and the Caribbean and I am never afraid to do anything.

 

I would love for you to help me with my itinerary:

Rome (City tour and Vatican tour in 3 days), Naples (day trip to Capri), Athens (Acropolis, lunch, and Plaka), Santorini (Lunch and beach), Corfu

(Lunch and Beach), Venice (Canal tour and dinner), Mykonos (lunch and beach), Rhodes (lindros?), dubrovinik (lunch, poke around, beach), Kusadasi (Ephesus)

 

I mostly want to hang out, watch people, eat local cuisine, and shop a bit.

I need confidence! Party On! Sungirl kcsungirl@aol.com

[mountainhouse]

Thanks for the analogy, Hank! I've done Angel's Landing, and backpacked in Zion NP, so why should I be so concerned about missing the ship. Definitely puts things in perspective.

[Hlitner]

Lol KC (not laughing at you but with you). Hard to know where to start other than to say that part of the fun and excitement of travel is discovering how to overcome problems. Money changing is no longer an issue if you have an ATM card (ATMs are everywhere and all have an option for English). ATMs usually offer the best rates and we generally get all of our currency after we arrive. You should have tried this before the Euro.. I used to carry several different wallets so I could keep different currency in different wallets. As to the language barrier, I think you would find a bigger language barrier in Miami (if you don't speak Spanish) than in more of Western Europe. As to being robbed, in the states they shoot you and take your money. In Europe they try to pick your pocket or purse (this is mostly gypsies). You certainly need to take precautions to guard your purse/wallet just like you would in our country. As to your itiinerary, I always recommend a first time visitor to Rome take an organized full day tour that includes the Vatican (you see, even I can like tours). From Naples to Capri you can simply walk over to the hydrofoil pier (its next to the cruise port), buy your ticket, and take the hydrofoil. The tours use these same hydrofoils but they charge more than the ticket. Capri is easy to do on your own as long as your have legs and feet that work. You are seeing the right things in Athens ( I would do them on my own) and my only problem with a tour would be I hate lunches with tour groups and you certainly do not need a guide to walk through the Plaka (a smallish shopping district). Santorini is one of our favorite places but I would not recommend the beach for a first time visitor. The beaches here are really not that special (our beaches in the US are better). You need no tour to enjoy the main town of Thira (Fira) which is where you can have lunch at anyone of dozens of charming cafes (they all have English menus). Just about everyone in Santorini speaks some English so there is no language problem. If you have an interest in ruins, Akritori is more interesting than a beach. Its also fun and cheap to simply take the local bus over to the other town of Oia. When you arrive at Santorini (they tender) you can get up to the city on the funicular or by taking the mules (this is fun). You need no tour to do any of this stuff and its pretty easy to do on your own with the help of reading a guide book or the internet. Rhodes is a good port with Rhodes Town (they have an old and a new town) within walking distance of the ship. Lindros is somewhat interesting (it is really ruined ruins) and if you want to avoid taking a tour any taxi will happily take you to Lindros from Rhodes Town. Again, language will be no problem. Rhodes is one of the major tourist (beach) destinations for the British so almost everyone speaks some English. By the way, I think Rhodes has some of the best sandy beaches in Europe. Corfu is a pretty nice island, but you will not have time to really see this gateway to the Ionian Islands. The main town where you dock is best explored on foot (they have lots of shops and restaurants). This island is a major yachting place and you will have no language problems. Venice is a place to explore on your own by simply walking or using the inexpensive water buses called Vaporettos. Venice is a true tourist trap that is totally wonderful. Walking here is a riot and it takes a good map to not get totally confused (this is real fun). If you want to take a Gondola its easy to hire one on your own rather than take a tour where you will have 4 or 6 crammed into your gondola. Pick up a bottle of wine and take it on the Gondola to sip while you ride. As to dinner, we have never had a lot of luck finding decent reasonably priced restaurants in Venice but its still fun. We once found a pretty fair Italian seafood place not far from St Marks Square,,but I have no clue of the name. But, most of the really cute restaurants are too small for large tour groups. Mykonos - great beach island with excellent jewelery shops in town. We usually just take a local bus to one of the beaches..although taxis are also a decent option. The town is easily explored on foot. Ephesus is one of the most amazing places on earth! You certainly want to take a tour for your first visit whether you use the cruise tour, or book an alternative on the internet. Dubrovnik is one of the places we have never visited (we were once scheduled but had to cancel when Dubrovnik was in the middle of a war) but we hear its absolutely beautiful. As to confidence, they have darn good wine and beer in all those ports. Drink enough and you will have confidence (smile). By the way, I do practice what I preach. We will be taking a cruise to Europe this spring and are going to spend 15 days driving in Italy. Now driving a car in Italy is one of life's great adventures. I have never figured out how the Italians can turn a narrow 2 lane road into a 3 lane road but it sure is fun.

 

Hank

[Andym]

KC,

 

Hank gives a very good start to everything. I can help with Dubrovnik. Take a walk around the walls, the views are spectacular, and then wander the shops. Everything is very close with no need for a tour of any description. Then for the beach, you can either sunbathe and swim off the rocks as the locals do, or just outside the south gate is a hotel with a beach where you can have lunch and use their facilities.

We only ever use tours where the place is a long way off, Rome, Florence, and then we only use the 'on your own' option.

 

Andy

[tooalto]

While I heartily agree with the OP about trying things independently, there are times when a short tour is a help and there are compromises to a cattle-call bus tour. Most land tour operators, if you're just booking an air/hotel package, will include a half-day sightseeing tour. This is a great idea in a large city such as Rome or Paris. YOu aren't spending a lot of time being herded around but you get a feel for the layout of the city and a chance to re-visit places at your leisure that have interest for you. There is plenty of time to spend wandering on your own.

A compromise, which we're using on our Sep. 8 cruise on the Noordam, is to use a private guide. I've done much research here and elsewhere online and found private drivers and guides in virtually every port we're visiting. These tours are not regimented, just a local who will show you just what you want to see. The prices are only a bit more expensive than shore excursions offered. In some instances, if you can find another couple or two to share your tour, they are priced less. The private guides can also save you some time by not repeating things you can easily get to on your own. As an example, our driver in Rome said he won't take us to the Via Veneto, Spanish Steps or the Borghese Gardens since our hotel is so close to all of them. He could easily have driven us around to these places, charged us and we would never have been the wiser. A bus tour would certainly have taken us.

Since this is our first trip to the Med. we want to do it right, see as much as we can and not feel like a tourist.

[Joanne G.]

I'm not flaming you or referring to your posts, but I think that sometimes, the flaming can start when people have kind of an "attitude" about those who really need to take a tour. It can come off as a "hipper than thou" and people who want a tour end up being put down for their choices. Again, I'm not saying that YOU have ever done this, but I've seen it happen.

 

Jane, that was very well said. Thank you for recognizing that we all choose the type of vacation that suits our needs, and there's no call for criticising or judging others' choices.

 

On a Med cruise last summer, my friend and I happily signed up for ship-sponsored excursions - the least "hip" off all the options! We were two women, first time in any of these ports, not experienced world travelers, speaking none of the languages of the places were were visiting. To us, doing the type of reasearch needed to independent wandering and the worry about getting left behind did not fit into our desire for low-stress vacation.

 

We did some exploring on our own, complete with people-watching in piazzas, in short pre- and post-cruise stays in Rome. Knowing the hotel wasn't floating away at 6:00 made all the difference in the world. :D

[Susan-M]

Hank .... great post & I agree that it's much more rewarding to do it on your own using local transportation and your own two feet:) We've done Europe by land a few times so I was quite comfortable doing excursions on our own when we did a Med cruise last Sept. We didn't do it to save money, but rather to be off 'exploring on our own'. As you say, "lots of homework" ahead of time....but well worth it!

 

However, I can see why organized tours are popular .... for those who haven't been to Europe it's the 'fear of the unknown', for those who aren't comfortable walking a lot, it would be very difficult (we logged miles on our legs every day!) and some people don't have the time needed for research.

[CruiseDuck]

Hlitner,

 

This summer we are taking a cruise to the British Isles. One of our ports is Le Havre. Paris is about 3 hours from the port. The ship offers tours to Paris. They also offer transportation to Paris but then you are on your own for the day and then meet up with the bus to take you back to the ship. Is Paris an easy city to do on your own if you do not speak the language? If so, what would be the 'must see' sites?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

[ddjwms]

Quote from KCSungirl: "I would love for you to help me with my itinerary:

Rome (City tour and Vatican tour in 3 days), Naples (day trip to Capri), Athens (Acropolis, lunch, and Plaka), Santorini (Lunch and beach), Corfu

(Lunch and Beach), Venice (Canal tour and dinner), Mykonos (lunch and beach), Rhodes (lindros?), dubrovinik (lunch, poke around, beach), Kusadasi (Ephesus)"

 

KCSungirl:

If you have three days in Rome, you can easily see everything you want on your own using public transportation. Just buy a good guidebook: I am a Rick Steves fan myself--and enjoy. Your hotel or B&B will also likely provide you with any info. you need. Rome is very easy to navigate via bus and subway. If you want a more guided tour, there are those on and off double decker busses. Then we have used Stefano Constantini <allagrande@hotmail.it> when we wanted transfers or a guide with commentary. He speaks excellent English and is quick to respond to e-mails. He can put together almost anything you want for a city tour. It is easy to get money from an ATM in Rome. Pickpockets are a problem: my 6'4'', 250+ lb. husband was hit the first time we were there, but since has learned to use a neck wallet and has had no problem in a half dozen or so return trips.

 

Athens is also easy by public transportation. The Plaka is close (easy walking distance or bus) to the Acropolis (which is easy to reach by subway) Again, just buy yourself a good travel guide and follow its directions. Most people in Athens (anywhere in Western Europe for that matter) speak at least some English and are very friendly about helping tourists.

 

We had a great tour to Ephesus with Sisan Tours <www.sisantours.com> a couple of weeks ago: our guide spoke excellent English, and I recommend them highly. We paid less than half of what the ship's excursion would cost, yet went everywhere they did, but with individual attention and service. It was easy to use US dollars or euros in Turkey.

 

Everything in Mykonos (a beach, a number of restaurants) is an easy walk from the pier unless you want to go to one of the outlying beaches; then get a taxi or rent a motorscooter from the waterfront.

 

In Naples, if you aren't ruin-fatigued (it is easy to get ruin-fatigued and cathedral-fatigued in Europe!), I would take the train to Pompeii or Herculaneum. Easily done, and much more memorable than Capri...

 

If you are used to traveling on your own in the US, etc., you will soon get used to the same thing in Europe. We only take ship excursions when there is a long distance involved and no readily available alternatives: to Marakkech, Alhambra, and Alexandria to Cairo have been our ship excursions in four Med cruises. They have always been rushed, but better than nothing. But whenever we can go on our own, we do it.

[tom_uk]

Well, you need to read the guide books, but Paris is - well, it's Paris.

 

When in summer are you going? If it's in August, some of the attractions may be closed or have restricted opening hours: traditionally the French take the whole of August as a holiday, and therefore Paris shuts. It's not so bad these days (indeed, I suspect it never was *that* bad) and there are compensations, eg 'Paris plage': they ship a few thousand tons of sand into the city, close the road on the north bank of the Seine, cover it with the sand, et voila! instant beach. C'est formidable, and very popular.

 

Let's see - if I had just half a day in Paris, what would I do? well, probably something like this:- a) walk along the Seine from Isle St Louis, westwards past Notre-Dame; b) carry on walking along the Seine to the Louvre (but not go into it!), walk through the Jardin des Tuileries and up to Place de la Concorde; and c) having done all that walking, get the metro back to the Marais, find a cafe, and sit outside and recover while enjoying some food & wine. But the trouble with that itinerary is that it leaves out so much: Montmartre; the Jardin du Luxembourg; Place des Vosges; the Trifle Tower; the whole of the Left bank; etc, etc. And that's just the obvious highlights - the cognoscenti would probably smile pityingly at all of those choices

 

But above all, you've got to be back in time to get the coach back to Le Havre!

[ClaudiaF]

:rolleyes: Once the ship bus drops you off in Paris at the "meeting" place.. you can easily wander on your own.

If it is a drop off in front of any "famous monument" usually Tour Eiffle ( Eiffle Tower)..you can easily get on the red or yellow Hop on Hop off double decker tourist bus which costs something like 22 EU for 2 day pass ( not sure what 1 day cost is) but you buy it right on the bus . It travels around making stops at all the "attractions" so in an hour or so if you stay on it you will be back to the original starting point. You can get off to visit any stop they make and then get on the next bus that comes around ( making sure is the same color you started on is all you need to worry about).

You can also take the Bateau Mouche ( the boat ride) on the Seine which also is a great see it all tour which just goes in a big circle from another perspective.

You could take the metro to Montmarte, but unless yuou have done this before I don't think I would suggest you try to make your way around that way in such a short time. While it is easy, it is also confusing if you have not done their metros before.

You could grab a taxi though. Montmarte is a wonderful place to see.

or..

You can walk up and down the Champs E'llysees and have a lunch at a sidewalk cafe and people watch and just enjoy being in one of the most

beautiful cities.

 

editing to add a welcome back to Hank, on this board who always has valuable information to share!

[KCSungirl]

Hank, Andy, and ddjwms, thanks for taking the time to comment on my post. I want to be more specific now since I have all of this help. ;-)

 

Athens: How do I get from the Port to the Acropolis on my own? Normally I would get a taxi and pay too much.

How do I get to the Plaka from the Acropolis?

How do I get back to the ship from the Plaka?

 

Rome: Let's say I took the bus from the Marriott to the Colosseum as directed from someone at the hotel. How do I get back to another area or the hotel? Do I walk to the Trevi Fountain and Spanish Steps? Is this safe? Do I need a guide/tour for the Vatican?

 

Naples: Is the train to Pompeii a pick pocket haven? Is the boat ride around Capri interesting?

 

Greek Isles: Are there any nice resorts that we can either buy a day pass or use the facilities if we have lunch?

 

I have no brain when it comes to bus, subway, and train schedules. I always pay TOO much and take a taxi. How do I learn the public transportation system in Rome in a day? This is part of my stress also. I always know I can get myself somewhere, but never know if I can find my way back! (Without getting robbed or lost of course ;-)

 

I don't need Rick Steves, I have the kind people on the CC board to help me.

I need my own personal thread - Sungirl's Solutions to cheaper and stress free travel in Europe.

 

Thanks again for the counseling, Sungirl

[nparmelee]

KCSungirl, I have the following in my notes for getting to the Acropolis from the port in Piraeus. I got this from one of the other posters here:

The train from the port into Athens runs about every 3 minutes and once again is amazingly easy to take. When you get off the ship go left and just follow the sidewalk along the port. When you reach the “Plateia Karaiskaki” plaza there is a big fork in the road. At this point turn to the right (you’ll be walking away from the port). Now keep your eyes open and about 1 city block up on the right is the Metro station. Most big cities have the Metro marked with large letters or just a big red “M”, but unfortunately that is not the case here. So keep your eyes open or you could walk right past it. The walk is about 1.5 miles (30 minutes).

 

Take the Line 1 Metro. Go to the ticket counter and ask for a round trip ticket. You will get two tickets (one for each direction) at a cost of Euro 0.70 cents a piece. Stamp one of your tickets in the yellow time stamp machine before getting on the train. (Do not stamp the second ticket until you are ready to come back. Once stamped the ticket is only good for about 90 minutes.) When the Metro leaves Pireaus there will be 5 stops before it comes to the “Theseum” stop. Exit here for the Acropolis.

My understanding is that the Plaka is walking distance from the Acropolis. I think there's also a tram that goes by the Acropolis to the Plaka area. Reverse for the directions for going back to Piraeus.

[KCSungirl]

Nadine,

 

I printed your instructions and I totally think I can mangage that situation! I just have to remember to get the tickets validated. Thanks so much, Sungirl

[elin]

Great posting Hank, and advice for KC!

(Note to self, copy information on Athens and Greek Islands for trip this summer....:D )

One of the fantastic things about the Cruise Critic board is that you can ask questions about pretty much any port and someone will have been there and can help.

I try to do "independent" tours when we travel. It's more a preference for a smaller tour then for a group tour. (This and I swear my DH has ADD half the time :D .)

This board has been (and continues to be) a wealth of information. From this board I have gotten the names of tour guides and directions on how to do it on your own. There is also information to be found on various ship tours.

One of the most helpful features on this board is the "search" button at the top. I try to do a search on different topics (ex. tour guides in ....) for the different categories.

I can't imagine planning trips without the internet and without help from this board.

Thanks to all...I'll probably need your help again in the future!

Elin

[ddjwms]

It is easy to learn to use Rome's transportation system in a day. You might want to pick up a map that shows bus, subway routes. There are lots of little stands outside the Termini that have them. You can also buy day passes there.

 

To get back where you came from, you usually can just cross the street and catch the same number bus going the other way. Most busses and subways have maps inside showing their stops, so it is easy to count ahead and see where you are and when you will want to get off. Just reverse that when you are going back to where you came from.

 

All busses and trains in Europe are pickpocket heaven--as is the area around any major tourist attraction. Use a neck wallet or money belt under your clothes, and you'll be fine. Carry small amounts of money in a front or inside jacket pocket. Don't carry more money than you will need for the day. Lock the rest (along with your passport) in the safe at your hotel. Avoid crowds (impossible to do on public transportation, but try to get a seat or keep your back to the wall; stay away from the door: pickpockets like to get on and off fast...). If people--kids, for example, crowd around you--or act peculiar (a guy was crawling around my husband's feet on the Paris Metro as if he had dropped something and was trying to find it; my son realized that was a distraction while the guy's partner tried to go after my husband's wallet and warned my husband), figure they are pickpockets.

 

That said, we have taken the train to Pompeii three times with no problems whatsoever.

 

We had copied off the same directions about the train from Piraeus to Athens Acropolis. Only thing I would add is it is a farther walk from the ship to the Metro than we imagined--not horrible, but we kept thinking we had passed the station; squares weren't very clearly marked. We kept stopping people on the street and asking. They were all very polite and kept telling us to keep on going. You actually keep on curving around the harbor until you run out of street and then turn right. The train station is a big yellow building about two blocks on the right.

 

Rick Steves guides are good because they walk you step by step through attractions, tell you what you are seeing, etc. They often tell you exactly what bus to take and which stop you exit at. I figure you can never have too much information...

[Mike Andrews]

Good to see you posting again Hank,we have done most of the major European ports on our own and some with drivers and guides and enjoy the planning side of things.

 

Mike