Costa By Carnival. Adults-Only Brand?

[CruisingWalter]

6 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

You do know Virgin postponed the launch of their next ship until next year at the earliest?

 

Due to staffing and supply chain issues. They were very public about that. They had to cancel quite a few cruises. 

"There are a number of global challenges that affect travel and particularly the cruise industry, including supply chain issues, crewing challenges and regional uncertainty," 

https://www.travelandleisure.com/cruises/virgin-voyages-delays-resilient-lady-debut#:~:text=Richard Branson's Virgin Voyages cruise,Athens%2C Greece%2C this summer.

[CruisingWalter]

7 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Carnival would be smarter to let some other mass market line be on the bleeding edge. Carnival learned their lesson with Paradise.

 

Offering "adults-only" cruising is not exactly 'bleeding-edge.' It's not like sending the Vista to Antarctica. Now THAT would be bleeding-edge. 🙂  The cost to Carnival would be pretty much nothing if they offered test cruises on their existing fleet. Taking one (or two) entire ships and running them as Adults-only, as I theorized in the original post, would be a major step for the cruise line. That's one reason why I originally suggested they offer Adults Only itineraries on their existing ships. Minimal risk. 

[BlerkOne]

Just now, WheresWalter said:

 

One of the roles of a Brand Ambassador, who is often an employee of or directly sponsored by the cruise line, as well as brand influencers is to 'test the market.' John Heald would never have posted that question unless someone at Carnival asked him to. The mere fact that he asked the question means that Carnival has had internal discussions about offering adult-only cruises. 

 

This is not the first time JH has asked the question. It is still an unscientific survey.

 

If they want to "test the market", this is certainly not the best economy to launch any experiments. Carnival is smart enough to not dedicate a ship or two for such foolishness. If anything, they would "test the market" with a cruise or two; not a ship or two. Just as Carnival will never have a 100% smoke free ship again, they aren't going to have a kid free ship - if for no other reason than you eliminate a lot of group sales which will have some of both.

 

It is a cheap way to do some market research, but the results, particularly in these times, will have a low confidence interval.

[CruizinSusan70]

7 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Carnival would be smarter to let some other mass market line be on the bleeding edge. Carnival learned their lesson with Paradise.

You can't compare a non smoking ship versus an adults only one.  The casino is the number one profit maker and many gamblers smoke.  Because of this fact, revenue from the casino was the major downfall in why the Paradise did not make it.

[BlerkOne]

5 minutes ago, WheresWalter said:

 

Offering "adults-only" cruising is not exactly 'bleeding-edge.' It's not like sending the Vista to Antarctica. Now THAT would be bleeding-edge. 🙂  The cost to Carnival would be pretty much nothing if they offered test cruises on their existing fleet. Taking one (or two) entire ships and running them as Adults-only, as I theorized in the original post, would be a major step for the cruise line. That's one reason why I originally suggested they offer Adults Only itineraries on their existing ships. Minimal risk. 

Carnival already sends HAL and Princess to Antarctica. Even those are at risk with the new polar codes which should exclude them for not having ice rated hulls. Sending Vista to Antarctica would be insanity, as it is a warm water ship.

[CruizinSusan70]

Instead of making 1 ship adults only, the better option would be have a few sporadic sailings out of each port (PC, Miami, Galveston, Long Beach, NYC, New Orleans) as a test to see how it works.  Maybe one sailing during the summer and another during the spring or fall of 2023.  That would give them a dozen sailings to see it it's worth it or not.

[BlerkOne]

11 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

You can't compare a non smoking ship versus an adults only one.  The casino is the number one profit maker and many gamblers smoke.  Because of this fact, revenue from the casino was the major downfall in why the Paradise did not make it.

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by BlerkOne

[BlerkOne]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Celebrity has smoke free casinos and Disney has none at all - but they both have smoking areas. Carnival Paradise was profitable, but didn't have the returns Carnival wanted. One of the problems was the crew wasn't allowed to smoke either, and you don't see many of them in the casinos.

 

I would like to see verification by the cruise lines that casinos are the number one profit maker.

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by BlerkOne
wow - they don't let you delete a post?

[CruizinSusan70]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

 

I would like to see verification by the cruise lines that casino are the number one profit maker.

There is an overabundance of posters on various threads boasting all of the time about the offers they get for free inside or cheap balcony sailings and drinks on us in the casino versus everywhere on the ship. 

If Carnival wasn't printing money from the casino profits then why on God's green earth would there be the plethora of offers given to gamblers?

[BlerkOne]

Just now, CruizinSusan70 said:

There is an overabundance of posters on various threads boasting all of the time about the offers they get for free inside or cheap balcony sailings and drinks on us in the casino versus everywhere on the ship. 

If Carnival wasn't printing money from the casino profits then why on God's green earth would there be the plethora of offers given to gamblers?

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. As I understand it, the casino subsidizes the offers, not Carnival.

[CruizinSusan70]

2 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. As I understand it, the casino subsidizes the offers, not Carnival.

Since you obviously know it all, then what is your opinion as to what generates the most money on board?  If it's not the casino, then it must be the bars.  Certainly not going to be excursions, bingo or picture sales.

[tidecat]

7 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Instead of making 1 ship adults only, the better option would be have a few sporadic sailings out of each port (PC, Miami, Galveston, Long Beach, NYC, New Orleans) as a test to see how it works.  Maybe one sailing during the summer and another during the spring or fall of 2023.  That would give them a dozen sailings to see it it's worth it or not.

Except that screws with the staffing for the kids programs. Unless if you can offer those between contracts for a ship's youth staff, or transfer staff between ships, it may not be worth it to run one here and there. Those spaces would also be difficult to convert on short notice into adult-centric spaces (preferably which produce revenue) and convert back.

 

It would be easier financially to launch the Costa by Carnival as adults-only, put the kids club gear in storage, and convert to all-ages cruising if it's a flop. Remember too that the number of kids on board also affects things like the quantities of food and beverages that the ship has to procure ahead of each sailing. Drastically pivoting between 0 and 1000 kids on board makes that process harder.

 

The fare structure may also have to change, as there will be fewer cases of 3+ people in one room without kids on board. Especially since the automatic gratuities/service charges are effectively a pass-through to the crew. Those two kids not in the room mean $28/day less to the crew. It may be easier to conceal any changes needed to go adults-only by making them when the brand is new to the market.

[BlerkOne]

51 minutes ago, WheresWalter said:

 

Due to staffing and supply chain issues. They were very public about that. They had to cancel quite a few cruises. 

"There are a number of global challenges that affect travel and particularly the cruise industry, including supply chain issues, crewing challenges and regional uncertainty," 

https://www.travelandleisure.com/cruises/virgin-voyages-delays-resilient-lady-debut#:~:text=Richard Branson's Virgin Voyages cruise,Athens%2C Greece%2C this summer.

Allegedly. 🤡

[BlerkOne]

20 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Since you obviously know it all, then what is your opinion as to what generates the most money on board?  If it's not the casino, then it must be the bars.  Certainly not going to be excursions, bingo or picture sales.

Nobody but the cruise lines know, and they don't release those numbers. Does Carnival actually receive all the revenue from the casinos or are they outsourced? How are revenues going to be shared with the new agreement with MGM?

 

No, I don't know is the correct answer from anyone that doesn't have access to the actual numbers.

[Essiesmom]

Among the kidless is Viking Ocean, no kids and no casinos.  EM

Edited June 26, 2022 by Essiesmom

[Tippyton]

Interesting.  I think there is a market - look at all the cruises booked with only 5% max unvaxxed (kids).

[BlerkOne]

14 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

Among the kidless is Viking Ocean, no kids and no casinos.  EM

Viking River cruises, too. But neither Viking nor Virgin are mass market lines. They do have smoking areas.

[BlerkOne]

3 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

Interesting.  I think there is a market - look at all the cruises booked with only 5% max unvaxxed (kids).

Now 10%, I believe, and kids under 5 don't need an exemption at all.

[Drazil65]

Carnival is a family brand. A mass market cruise line. They are not going to have adult only ships.

 

LOL...OK...lets see, children witnessing lots of drinking and smoking certainly has its place in some families I guess.  Oh yes, lets not forget the casino, lots of family stuff there!!!  Please, you are speaking as if CCL is all about the family experience...its not Disney...they will get the money from wherever and convince you its all about the family (hey, if that works then why not, that is what companies do). 

 

If they thought for one minute that they could be profitable with a ship with an adult only theme they would be booking it in a minute (and there would be plenty of people ready to pay the deposit I'm sure).     

[kelkel2]

We’re not at the place win our lives to do adult only, we have young children. But we’ve been cruising carnival since our honeymoon and at one point in our life we would have been interested in adult only ships. Maybe these borrowed ships would be a good way to try that market for Carnival? It will be interesting to see what unfolds. 

[Itried4498]

There's no way Carnival is going to regularly operate a 5,200 capacity ship as "adults only."  If Carnival were to operate adults-only cruises, most likely they'd designate specific dates as such.  If they were to launch a regular itinerary, it'd be with a revived Fantasy or Spirit-class ship that has half the capacity as the Costa ships.

 

1 hour ago, WheresWalter said:

 

Due to staffing and supply chain issues. They were very public about that. They had to cancel quite a few cruises. 

"There are a number of global challenges that affect travel and particularly the cruise industry, including supply chain issues, crewing challenges and regional uncertainty," 

https://www.travelandleisure.com/cruises/virgin-voyages-delays-resilient-lady-debut#:~:text=Richard Branson's Virgin Voyages cruise,Athens%2C Greece%2C this summer.

 

...and Wall Street basically blamed it on overcapacity.  The concern is that cruise lines may be filling ships, but not at the same per passenger revenue pre-COVID.

[BlerkOne]

28 minutes ago, Drazil65 said:

Carnival is a family brand. A mass market cruise line. They are not going to have adult only ships.

 

LOL...OK...lets see, children witnessing lots of drinking and smoking certainly has its place in some families I guess.  Oh yes, lets not forget the casino, lots of family stuff there!!!  Please, you are speaking as if CCL is all about the family experience...its not Disney...they will get the money from wherever and convince you its all about the family (hey, if that works then why not, that is what companies do). 

 

 

Like there's none of that at home? Years ago, kids might practice getting under desks for a nuclear strike. Today?

 

 

[BlerkOne]

25 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

There's no way Carnival is going to regularly operate a 5,200 capacity ship as "adults only."  If Carnival were to operate adults-only cruises, most likely they'd designate specific dates as such.  If they were to launch a regular itinerary, it'd be with a revived Fantasy or Spirit-class ship that has half the capacity as the Costa ships.

 

A small ship experiment makes more sense, if there is any sense to be made. Ecstasy will likely be scrapped and the scrap value isn't going to change if they delay it by a month or a lot of months. They can move it around and try different ports and itineraries.

[CruisingWalter]

1 hour ago, tidecat said:

Except that screws with the staffing for the kids programs. Unless if you can offer those between contracts for a ship's youth staff, or transfer staff between ships, it may not be worth it to run one here and there. Those spaces would also be difficult to convert on short notice into adult-centric spaces (preferably which produce revenue) and convert back.

 

No need to convert the kid's spaces, they just won't be utilized during the adults-only sailing. And the kids program staff can roll into the entertainment or cruise director staff helping with additional games and such. 

[CruisingWalter]

1 hour ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

There is an overabundance of posters on various threads boasting all of the time about the offers they get for free inside or cheap balcony sailings and drinks on us in the casino versus everywhere on the ship. 

If Carnival wasn't printing money from the casino profits then why on God's green earth would there be the plethora of offers given to gamblers?

 

To be honest, cruise lines most likely make the most money from alcohol and food. The casino is nice, but not everyone uses that. A friend who used to be CFO for a major cruise line told me that the $125 per person dinner I had in their top tier restaurant onboard (at the time) cost the cruise line $17 per person. Cruise lines usually also mark up excursions 200% from what they cost to run. 

 

At one time it was stated that cruise ships had to run about 35% capacity to break even and everything over that was gravy. As Carnival has been running almost 100% capacity and now turning the corner very quickly back to positive cash flow, you can see how much of a profit is in everything onboard a ship. 🙂