cruising deacon Posted June 18, 2022 #1 Share Posted June 18, 2022 With online chat abounding regarding CCL possibly filing for bankruptcy, the future for Princess etc looks bleak. If you look at the recent breakup of Crystal, the creditors and mortgage holders will end up taking whatever little the bankruptcy gets, the stockholders of will get nothing. With the $20 B debt that CCL is carrying, even the mortgage holders will be lucky to get pennies on the dollar. How many companies out there want to buy cruise ships that are quickly becoming worthless, and the scrap yards are already full of them. Fortunately I have gotten my money's worth out of those shares between the dividends and the OBC', but it really bites me that their management hasn't done a better job. I was on the Crown recently, no one who sails it will ever return. 3 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potstech Posted June 18, 2022 #2 Share Posted June 18, 2022 Thank you for your opinion. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeyouinthesun Posted June 18, 2022 #3 Share Posted June 18, 2022 *opinion* I feel Princess should be getting more from John Padgett than what they are getting. Sacrificing quality for quantity is a questionable tactic for running a premium line. The crew are saving the company as best they can and most likely will not be thanked by management for it. *opinion* 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare tetleytea Posted June 18, 2022 #4 Share Posted June 18, 2022 CCL got a nice price bump today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowzz Posted June 18, 2022 #5 Share Posted June 18, 2022 2 hours ago, cruising deacon said: I was on the Crown recently, no one who sails it will ever return. Which is of no importance whatsoever to the financial institutions who determine the fate of any company, including CCL. Cash flow, forward bookings, etc look pretty good, fuel prices look bad. Those criteria are what are important, not the negative opinions of some people on one ship. 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzyed Posted June 19, 2022 #6 Share Posted June 19, 2022 4 hours ago, tetleytea said: CCL got a nice price bump today. Really? What was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caribill Posted June 19, 2022 #7 Share Posted June 19, 2022 4 hours ago, suzyed said: Really? What was it? Went up 9.71% Friday. Of course that was just an increase of 85 cents to a closing price of $9.60. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ombud Posted June 19, 2022 #8 Share Posted June 19, 2022 You do realize there's a world of difference between filing for bankruptcy and ceasing to exist, right?? 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ontheweb Posted June 19, 2022 #9 Share Posted June 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Ombud said: You do realize there's a world of difference between filing for bankruptcy and ceasing to exist, right?? But this is what can happen after you file for bankruptcy. From record-setter to rubbish: World’s biggest cruise ship to be scrapped without sailing a single voyage (msn.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruising deacon Posted June 19, 2022 Author #10 Share Posted June 19, 2022 3 hours ago, Ombud said: You do realize there's a world of difference between filing for bankruptcy and ceasing to exist, right?? Not in the eyes of the stockholders, they owe far more than they are worth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ombud Posted June 19, 2022 #11 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, ontheweb said: But this is what can happen after you file for bankruptcy. From record-setter to rubbish: World’s biggest cruise ship to be scrapped without sailing a single voyage (msn.com) Yes, a Hong Kong cruise line isn't happening. But Chapter 7, 11, or 13 for CCL is a stretch at this point. Most of us have been through reorganizations (Chapter 11). Sky is not falling. Look for CCL to lighten its load as older ships are going for 25m (scrap) -> 125m (bought by new lines). Crown has had propulsion issues since 2019. Dump it. As well as Grand. Yes I like the Grand but 'it's just business.' 2 more ships left its lines (Aida line). Saudis still negotiating for entire Seaborn line. Until ppl start booking with $,€,£,¥ & we clear the recession this issue will persist. But that an investment topic which has nothing to do with the end customer -- the individual cruiser 7 minutes ago, cruising deacon said: 3 hours ago, Ombud said: You do realize there's a world of difference between filing for bankruptcy and ceasing to exist, right?? Not in the eyes of the stockholders, they owe far more than they are worth Again Chapter 7, 11, or 13? .... until the stock is below $5 a share, (yes that's significant point where retirement funds cannot invest in them) I'm not worried. Finally, this F rated stock clearly belongs in the Explore portion (that which the investor can afford to lose without losing sleep) of a portfolio not the core holdings (which impact monthly / yearly earnings needed to maintain lifestyle) Edited June 19, 2022 by Ombud 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare tetleytea Posted June 19, 2022 #12 Share Posted June 19, 2022 3 hours ago, Ombud said: You do realize there's a world of difference between filing for bankruptcy and ceasing to exist, right?? The $1000 you spent for the 100.shares sure will. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted June 19, 2022 #13 Share Posted June 19, 2022 Once again: 4 2 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Roberto256 Posted June 19, 2022 #14 Share Posted June 19, 2022 21 hours ago, cruising deacon said: With online chat abounding regarding CCL possibly filing for bankruptcy, the future for Princess etc looks bleak. If you look at the recent breakup of Crystal, the creditors and mortgage holders will end up taking whatever little the bankruptcy gets, the stockholders of will get nothing. So, my whole $800 is at risk? I'll just have a good cry, and move on. But seriously, I bought it at $8 on a lark. Kind of like walking through the casino, and putting down a bet on some game I pass by. Without the second hand smoke, of course... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Roberto256 Posted June 19, 2022 #15 Share Posted June 19, 2022 3 hours ago, Daniel A said: Once again: Is this like a watertight door, where there is an alarm and flashing lights to alert me to avoid pieces of the sky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skynight Posted June 19, 2022 #16 Share Posted June 19, 2022 So how does Carnival Corp compare to other large cruise corporations? Are they all in the same situation or is it just Carnival. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ontheweb Posted June 19, 2022 #17 Share Posted June 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, Roberto256 said: So, my whole $800 is at risk? Less what you can get off your taxes for the loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syracusefan44 Posted June 19, 2022 #18 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, skynight said: So how does Carnival Corp compare to other large cruise corporations? Are they all in the same situation or is it just Carnival. https://investorplace.com/2022/06/ccl-stock-debt-economy-loom-over-carnival/ Carnival is the weakest of the three big cruise lines because it piled on debt buying new ships when times were good. Its size forced it to buy more debt to stay alive in 2020. It ended fiscal 2022 with almost $30 billion of long-term debt. Edited June 19, 2022 by Syracusefan44 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ombud Posted June 19, 2022 #19 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 23 hours ago, cruising deacon said: With online chat abounding regarding CCL possibly filing for bankruptcy, Sources?? I would like to know if it's just FB, CC, or an actual traders source (like Schwabs Traders Platform ....) where those posting have actual knowledge of how it works taking outstanding FCC (expiring worthless 12/31/22) works. Otherwise it's just (as dear ole dad would say) crazy talk. Personal interest .... do I buy puts or maybe sell them to make $$s .... a spread?? But repeating, doubt this has much to do re: ordinary cruisers / investors Edited June 19, 2022 by Ombud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare tetleytea Posted June 19, 2022 #20 Share Posted June 19, 2022 4 hours ago, Ombud said: But repeating, doubt this has much to do re: ordinary cruisers / investors Plenty of cruisers go to the casino. The difference is not that big Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ombud Posted June 19, 2022 #21 Share Posted June 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, tetleytea said: Plenty of cruisers go to the casino. The difference is not that big Umm. Confused. What does options point spreads have to do with the casino?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare cr8tiv1 Posted June 19, 2022 #22 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, Ombud said: Look for CCL to lighten its load as older ships are going for 25m (scrap) -> 125m (bought by new lines). Crown has had propulsion issues since 2019. Dump it. As well as Grand. Yes I like the Grand but 'it's just business.' 2 more ships left its lines (Aida line). Saudis still negotiating for entire Seaborn line. Until ppl start booking with $,€,£,¥ & we clear the recession this issue will persist. How could you ever utter those evil thoughts! Let's get rid of the sphere. class...the royal class...and bring back the Pacific Princess and Golden. Twilight zone thinking! Sacrilegious.... Generally, I agree with most of your posts. Edited June 19, 2022 by cr8tiv1 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Ombud Posted June 20, 2022 #23 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, cr8tiv1 said: How could you ever utter those evil thoughts! Let's get rid of the sphere. class...the royal class...and bring back the Pacific Princess and Golden. Twilight zone thinking! Sacrilegious.... Generally, I agree with most of your posts. The Grand Class is my favorite class but is it the highest profit per passenger into the future?? I'm still cruising Golden & Star on POAU Golden Princess = Pacific Adventure Star Princess = Pacific Encounter Sphere layout is as bad as RCCL with interior balconies. Horrible idea Edited June 20, 2022 by Ombud Added new names for Star & Golden transferred within CCL 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icat2000 Posted June 20, 2022 #24 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) What with the Henny Penny posting. There is still plenty of demand for cruising post COVID-19. Lots of stocks have taken a hit. I dare not look at my super fund cause its probably lost a lot of $$$ in the past couple of months. But then I'm in it for the long term as I'm not retiring for a least 10-15 years. If I was retiring in the next 12 months I would be a little bit sad. Edited June 20, 2022 by icat2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbtan Posted June 20, 2022 #25 Share Posted June 20, 2022 I don't think CCL will go bankrupt. Far from it. They own so many lines. I'd be more concerned about NCL than Carnival corp. or Royal Caribbean group. This is the time the lines are going to get rid of older ships. I'm not sure how long the Grand class of Princess ships will remain in the fleet. We hope the Emerald at least stays till we do our Circle the Caribbean trip early in March. I feel that Princess is going for larger ships. The Royal class will soon be dwarfed by the new 175K ton ships that will be starting next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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