Revised NCL/Oceania COVID Guidelines Out Today: Drops Pre-Cruise Testing for the Vaccinated

[Flatbush Flyer]

Are you as displeased as I am with NCLH’s recent decision to allow unvaccinated passengers onboard Oceania ships?  From the recent posts here, it looks like a good prediction of a significant number of unhappy O regulars. 

Well, there is something you can do about it right now, today. Let the new O CEO know if your upset. If, like me, you recently received the official announcement about this vastly premature decision (NO - Covid is not yet an endemic nor is it as harmless as so many ill-informed folks believe) from O, let the new CEO Howard Sherman know about it.

 

You can write a letter to Howard Sherman at O’s corporate headquarters:

 

Howard Sherman, President & CEO

Oceania Cruises

7665 Corporate Center Drive

Miami, FL 33126 USA

 

I don’t have his direct email address yet (though, if it follows the norm at O, it would be HSHERMAN@OCEANIACRUISES.COM).

 

Calling will probably get you the run-around. But, if you’re willing to do a bit of research, you can probably get fairly close to his direct office line (or, at least, his admin. asst.) by contacting Chris Elliott, the syndicated travel writer and ombudsman. His crew at non-profit Elliott Advocacy (elliott.org) are amazing when you need to get to someone who can actually do something. (No cost for this service AND it works).

 

I could provide a stock letter but I’m not a big fan of that tactic since his admin. assistant would probably stop reading after the first repetitive handful. So, I suggest you first state your past positive experience with O, along with your O Club status and what future O plans you have/had - that is, until this misguided decision to allow unvaxed passengers onboard. BTW, if you happen to be a medical or other health professional, identify yourself and consider adding a citation or two (no more) to justify your upset.

 

NOTE: This exact strategy worked several years ago when O announced that vaping would be allowed with less restrictions. The outpouring of unhappy customers got that decision reversed in less than a week. 
 

While I expect that the certain jump in onboard Covid cases in the very near future will see the decision reversed by early 2024 and then flip flopped with every major spike and bad press, this is no time to just sit by. 
 

It would also help tremendously to impress upon your TAs to do the same thing - particularly if they are among O’s “preferred partners.” We, as passengers, may be mere rounding errors in O’s daily bottom line. But, they represent millions in revenue.

 

Best of luck with whatever you do to stop this lunacy.

[EEB_Ott]

On 8/8/2022 at 11:42 AM, ShopperfiendTO said:

These are not the terms we signed up for when we booked the cruise and we are past final payment! 

We are in the same situation and feel strongly that we've been misled by the SailSafe requirements that we relied on.  Oceania should offer clients the option of cancellation and refund for misrepresentation of terms. Seriously considering cancelling cruise and accepting lost payment. Oceania is free to change the terms going forward but should not change for cruises after final payment.

[Flatbush Flyer]

20 minutes ago, EEB_Ott said:

We are in the same situation and feel strongly that we've been misled by the SailSafe requirements that we relied on.  Oceania should offer clients the option of cancellation and refund for misrepresentation of terms. Seriously considering cancelling cruise and accepting lost payment. Oceania is free to change the terms going forward but should not change for cruises after final payment.

Send that message to Howard Sherman (and FDR).

[Robjame]

59 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Where do you come up with this stuff? 

Canadian government and scientific studies. I am sure CDC provides accurate scientific information for Americans……? Right?

 

any of the “stuff” you need help with?

Edited August 9, 2022 by Robjame

[Flatbush Flyer]

30 minutes ago, Robjame said:

Canadian government and scientific studies. I am sure CDC provides accurate scientific information for Americans……? Right?

 

any of the “stuff” you need help with?

Sure- try citations (as I did last week with a new Yale study (in NEXUS) dispelling the misguided statements that Covid is now an endemic.

[Jancruz]

On 8/8/2022 at 8:30 AM, Flatbush Flyer said:

At least for O and Regent, this is a MAJOR mistake - particularly the “no vaccine” requirement! 
In any case, the sure-to-increase onboard Covid numbers will eventually reverse that decision. 

You should qualify this as saying a major mistake in your opinion..

Jancruz1

[LNielsen]

I’m clearly in the minority here and will surely be told I’m wrong, labeled as a heretic, etc., but here it goes.  
 

I’m not concerned about this move in the least.   We’re fully vaccinated, we’ve been traveling starting in the fall of 2020 and cruising again starting in August of 2021,  eat out quite often,  go shopping, etc., and resumed our normal lives as soon on this state allowed us to do so.   We’re not naive, we know that not everyone is vaccinated and haven’t let that stop us from living our lives.  Whether it be at the store, a restaurant, while traveling by air, on land or on a cruise we KNOW that there are unvaccinated people everywhere.  Yes, even while cruising  with Oceania, once you step off the ship all bets are off.  Even on the ship with fully vaccinated passengers that are tested prior to boarding Covid finds its way onboard.  
 

I’ve said it before, no cruise line can survive at the revenue levels they’ve been generating for the long haul, they need to start filling ships.   By allowing unvaccinated folks to sail with required pre-boarding testing this may  give them a boost in bookings.  Not every unvaccinated person has chosen not to be vaccinated, they simply are unable to due to medical issues.    Sure, some people will choose to cancel due to the new policy, that’s their choice.  
 

Covid isn’t going away, it’s time for everyone to get back to their normal lives and do what is necessary and comfortable for them to move on.  
 

For us,  that’s realizing that there can never be a bubble to hide in and that we must enjoy ourselves while we’re still able to do so.   My husband and myself aren’t getting any younger. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by LNielsen
Typo

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 minutes ago, Jancruz said:

You should qualify this as saying a major mistake in your opinion..

Jancruz1

Jan I say this as a professional judgement based on a working life time crossing multiple Heath and Human Services disciplines and, if I am incorrect in stating that everyone on an Oceania ship should be vaxed and tested (and masked), please explain why (other than to protect their Human Services investment)?O still requires their crew to do all three protections.

[bbtondo]

What's right and what's wrong, who knows! It's all about money.  Time will tell if O has more bookings with this new rule or less.  Time will tell. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 minutes ago, LNielsen said:

I’m clearly in the minority here and will surely be told I’m wrong, labeled as a heretic, etc., but here it goes.  
 

I’m not concerned about this move in the least.   We’re fully vaccinated, we’ve been traveling starting in the fall of 2020 and cruising again starting in August of 2021,  eat out quite often,  go shopping, etc., and resumed our normal lives as soon on this state allowed us to do so.   We’re not naive, we know that not everyone is vaccinated and haven’t let that stop us from living our lives.  Whether it be at the store, a restaurant, while traveling by air, on land or on a cruise we KNOW that there are unvaccinated people everywhere.  Yes, even while cruising  with Oceania, once you step off the ship all bets are off.  Even on the ship with fully vaccinated passengers that are tested prior to boarding Covid finds its way onboard.  
 

I’ve said it before, no cruise line can survive at the revenue levels they’ve been generating for the long haul, they need to start filling ships.   By allowing unvaccinated folks to sail with required pre-boarding testing this may  give them a boost in bookings.  Not every unvaccinated person has chosen not to be vaccinated, they simply are unable to due to medical issues.    Sure, some people will choose to cancel due to the new policy, that’s their choice.  
 

Covid isn’t going away, it’s time for everyone to get back to their normal lives and do what is necessary and comfortable for them to move on.  
 

For us,  that’s realizing that there can never be a bubble to hide in and that we must enjoy ourselves while we’re still able to do so.   My husband and myself aren’t getting any younger. 

So, why is O still requiring crew to be vaxed, tested and masked?

[LNielsen]

Just now, Flatbush Flyer said:

So, why is O still requiring crew to be vaxed, tested and masked?

It’s policy?  You can argue this until you’re blue in the face, it’s not going to change anything.  If you are uncomfortable with   the policy,  simply choose to not sail with the company.    Other cruise lines have allowed unvaxxed  passengers for quite some time.     The sky has not fallen. 

[jondfk]

4 hours ago, PhD-iva said:

Unvaccinated passengers will be able to book on your cruise as soon as those already booked cancel their reservation prior to final payment.

For cruises already After final payment, you might be right. Here’s hoping!

Hypothetically, of course, you’re right.  I suppose someone who fully paid two months ago may cancel now, 30 days out, at a substantial penalty, and hypothetically, an unvaccinated person could book that cabin.  But I’m not worried about that, it requires person one to walk away from most of their money, and person two to have the first position on the waitlist, even though they are not vaccinated.  Possible?  Sure.  Likely?  Not very.

[roberts2005]

Besides the change in policy, this new set up provides an awful lot of confusion and possible changes in ports.

 

Our upcoming Barcelona to Rome cruise has 3 days in Israel.  If Israel only allows vaccinated passengers ashore.  This is an assumption on my part.  Or any other country.   What happens?

[Flatbush Flyer]

39 minutes ago, LNielsen said:

It’s policy?  You can argue this until you’re blue in the face, it’s not going to change anything.  If you are uncomfortable with   the policy,  simply choose to not sail with the company.    Other cruise lines have allowed unvaxxed  passengers for quite some time.     The sky has not fallen. 

ROTFL!

Yes - “policy.” But, “policy” to achieve ....?

Answer: protect the Human Resources. Obviously, whatever reasons why it’s not also for the passengers, does not include protecting them.

Of course, the great hypocrisy here is the decision threatens the crew as well.

 

Just so much expeditious “short-sightedness.”

[Flatbush Flyer]

6 minutes ago, roberts2005 said:

Besides the change in policy, this new set up provides an awful lot of confusion and possible changes in ports.

 

Our upcoming Barcelona to Rome cruise has 3 days in Israel.  If Israel only allows vaccinated passengers ashore.  This is an assumption on my part.  Or any other country.   What happens?

See my post #52. 
The decision is an attempt at efficiency without efficacy.

[Guest ldtr]

5 hours ago, MEFIowa said:

Just curious, are you planning on getting tested when you disembark and then return to the ship after every excursion? After interacting with all those in port or out and about in country.

 

Seems weird how COVID testing is desired by so many worried about travelers from Minneapolis to Miami but suddenly those same people don't give a rip about testing if it is say returning to the ship from a day in Belize City, Bermuda, Helsinki, Rio, Rome, etc.

Largely because a test the same day as potential infection is meaningless since it will be too early to detect.  On the other hand testing everyone prior to boarding can keep around 50% of potentially infectious cases off of the ship and unable to infect others on board.  The various tools for dealing with COvid (vaccination, testing, masking) do not prevent all infection, but they do reduce the rate of spread and the number of infections that would occur during the cruise.

[PhD-iva]

19 minutes ago, jondfk said:

Hypothetically, of course, you’re right.  I suppose someone who fully paid two months ago may cancel now, 30 days out, at a substantial penalty, and hypothetically, an unvaccinated person could book that cabin.  But I’m not worried about that, it requires person one to walk away from most of their money, and person two to have the first position on the waitlist, even though they are not vaccinated.  Possible?  Sure.  Likely?  Not very.

The majority of cruises are not past final payment date; concerned pax on those sailings cannot be confident that everyone who will be onboard w them is vaccinated.

[MEFIowa]

29 minutes ago, ldtr said:

... The various tools for dealing with Covid (vaccination, testing, masking) do not prevent all infection, but they do reduce the rate of spread and the number of infections that would occur during the cruise.

On a 10-day cruise with 6 port days spread out and NO testing during the cruise and NO mandatory masking while on excursions, all you're doing is accepting the risk that people will come back on board having been exposed. And it's all theatre, pretending that somehow pre-cruise testing is any panacea. Esp. when you've got say a 72-hour window to present your test (testing negative for the test but then possibly being infected afterwards before boarding). Or if you allow the easier tests with higher false positives & negatives rather than a PCR. Being vaccinated is the best single option. I certainly support that as a continuing mandate, since people who might get seriously ill may need to be hospitalized (having watched in 12/21 a very elderly man cause our cruise to grind to a halt one afternoon as he had to be evacuated near Key West by patrol boat, for non-COVID-related issue). Along with not cruising at all if you have risk factors. IF people are so worried about COVID, then don't cruise.

[roberts2005]

44 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

See my post #52. 
The decision is an attempt at efficiency without efficacy.

Are you sure you meant #52. That is not your post

[Guest ldtr]

8 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

On a 10-day cruise with 6 port days spread out and NO testing during the cruise and NO mandatory masking while on excursions, all you're doing is accepting the risk that people will come back on board having been exposed. And it's all theatre, pretending that somehow pre-cruise testing is any panacea. Esp. when you've got say a 72-hour window to present your test (testing negative for the test but then possibly being infected afterwards before boarding). Or if you allow the easier tests with higher false positives & negatives rather than a PCR. Being vaccinated is the best single option. I certainly support that as a continuing mandate, since people who might get seriously ill may need to be hospitalized (having watched in 12/21 a very elderly man cause our cruise to grind to a halt one afternoon as he had to be evacuated near Key West by patrol boat, for non-COVID-related issue). Along with not cruising at all if you have risk factors. IF people are so worried about COVID, then don't cruise.

If one looks at stats if you compare the number of cases that one can expect at the end of a 10 day cruise with comparison between a cruise with testing and vaccination vs one without testing or vaccination one would expect that if at the end of the cruise if the cruising population had X cases at the time of boarding then the Cruise with testing and vaccination required one would expect that the end of the cruise that there would be approximately   .5X x (10(.6)^2)  or roughly 18X cases, using an R0 of 10 as the normal for that environment and using the efficacy numbers for antigen testing an vaccination, and a incubation time of 5 days.  Without testing and if no one was vaccinated the same numbers would be X x 10^2  = 100X.  The total impact would be somewhere within those two limits since a number would be vaccinated and those unvaccinated would be tested.  But still a clear trend for potential of more cases with the changes.

 

Personally I have done 7 cruises in the past 8 months, as well as several other international trips.  That does not mean that I ignore the potential risk factors in my decision making.  I expect that a fair number of those that cruise on Oceania do as well.

[lj77346]

While I am surprised by the decision to allow non-vaccinated passengers to sail on Oceania, I am more concerned that when I fly to the cruise there's a chance that I might be sitting next to an non-vaccinated, unmasked passenger for 3 hours or more.  On a ship I can stay away from other passengers if I want, on a plane, that's not an option.

 

I don't know if masking makes much of a difference or not, but here are my observations from 4 Oceania cruises between Dec. 2021 and June 2022.  The first two cruises had testing at the pier and the last two just had the 2 day pre-cruise test requirement.  On none of the cruises were masks mandatory.  Apparently most passengers were not too concerned with the transmission of Covid as I would estimate that only about 10% of passengers voluntarily wore masks. To me, wearing a mask has become a part of life so on a ship I'll wear one in elevators, in shops, or in any other situations where crowding is an issue, plus I find that I look better in a mask than without.

 

So, if mask wearing can sort of be viewed as a rough indicator of how concerned people are about catching Covid, my non-scientific observation is that most Oceania passengers are willing to roll the dice and take their chances.  Now that the rules have changed everyone needs to decide what is right for them - there is no one size fits all solution that will make everyone happy.

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, roberts2005 said:

Are you sure you meant #52. That is not your post

On CC mobile version, post #s seem to change now and then. I’ve even seen one of my posts in the hundreds, reappear as #1. 
No need to track it down. “Preaching to the choir.”

[adorocke]

Does anyone know what this means for Trieste to Barcelona cruise as far as the testing prior?  I think I need to still get the booster as planned so as not to risk missing a port entry… 

Answer found here…. 
https://www.oceaniacruises.com/sites/default/files/2022-08/sail-safe-new-program.pdf

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by adorocke

[Guest ldtr]

3 hours ago, lj77346 said:

While I am surprised by the decision to allow non-vaccinated passengers to sail on Oceania, I am more concerned that when I fly to the cruise there's a chance that I might be sitting next to an non-vaccinated, unmasked passenger for 3 hours or more.  On a ship I can stay away from other passengers if I want, on a plane, that's not an option.

 

I don't know if masking makes much of a difference or not, but here are my observations from 4 Oceania cruises between Dec. 2021 and June 2022.  The first two cruises had testing at the pier and the last two just had the 2 day pre-cruise test requirement.  On none of the cruises were masks mandatory.  Apparently most passengers were not too concerned with the transmission of Covid as I would estimate that only about 10% of passengers voluntarily wore masks. To me, wearing a mask has become a part of life so on a ship I'll wear one in elevators, in shops, or in any other situations where crowding is an issue, plus I find that I look better in a mask than without.

 

So, if mask wearing can sort of be viewed as a rough indicator of how concerned people are about catching Covid, my non-scientific observation is that most Oceania passengers are willing to roll the dice and take their chances.  Now that the rules have changed everyone needs to decide what is right for them - there is no one size fits all solution that will make everyone happy.

Of the 3 primary methods vaccination, testing and masking, masking is considered to be by many to be the most intrusive on their enjoyment,  as such it was the first removed.

 

 

[fizzy]

On 8/8/2022 at 9:37 PM, PhD-iva said:

Jan1, you seem very well connected to NCLH mgmt. What are/were they thinking when they decided to allow unvaxed pax to sail? Doesn’t make any sense to me.

I can see the logic for dropping the pre-cruise test requirement…..hasn’t stopped covid from being spread onboard. But by allowing the unvaccinated (“the great unwashed” I call them) to sail, mgmt is inviting very serious cases to happen w greater frequency. 
Me no happy.

 

Wow..travel may not be the right thing for you at this time. The chances of coming in contact with "the great unwashed" on Oceana as you call them, may just be too stressful and dangerous.