RocketMan275 Posted February 7, 2023 #201 Share Posted February 7, 2023 10 minutes ago, scooter6139 said: Are you the Point Guy? Or do you work for them? You seem awfully INVESTED in their single article here. I've nothing to do with the points guy. I do find his analysis, not just this article, but his other subjects as well. Now, why don't you ask the resident 'safety expert' why he seems so awfully INVESTED in the inpersonmuster drill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare scooter6139 Posted February 8, 2023 #202 Share Posted February 8, 2023 28 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said: I've nothing to do with the points guy. I do find his analysis, not just this article, but his other subjects as well. Now, why don't you ask the resident 'safety expert' why he seems so awfully INVESTED in the inpersonmuster drill. Well that is simple: he has experience in the field. Next? 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefMateJRK Posted February 8, 2023 #203 Share Posted February 8, 2023 12 minutes ago, scooter6139 said: Well that is simple: he has experience in the field. Next? Sometimes it is possible to "know too much." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare scooter6139 Posted February 8, 2023 #204 Share Posted February 8, 2023 15 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said: Sometimes it is possible to "know too much." Agreed, but I personally will give more credence to "tons of real world work experience" vs "I just read an internet article." Just a reminder, I am for eMuster as it's more convenient for me and makes my cruise easier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ontheweb Posted February 8, 2023 #205 Share Posted February 8, 2023 18 minutes ago, scooter6139 said: Agreed, but I personally will give more credence to "tons of real world work experience" vs "I just read an internet article." Just a reminder, I am for eMuster as it's more convenient for me and makes my cruise easier. But does it make is safer? If not, what is the point of having a muster drill other than it is required? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KasperGutman Posted February 8, 2023 #206 Share Posted February 8, 2023 If this discussion were occurring on my cruise, as this point I would be looking for a waiver to sign that says: "In exchange for being excused the balance of the argument, I agree that in the event of the ship sinking, I will make no attempt to board a lifeboat and will quietly drown in my cabin" 🙂 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketMan275 Posted February 8, 2023 #207 Share Posted February 8, 2023 11 hours ago, ontheweb said: But does it make is safer? If not, what is the point of having a muster drill other than it is required? Exactly the point. Does the inpersonmuster make cruising safer? How does a briefing no one can hear or see improve safety? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketMan275 Posted February 8, 2023 #208 Share Posted February 8, 2023 12 hours ago, scooter6139 said: Well that is simple: he has experience in the field. Next? Not so simple. One can become emotionally involved in a specific solution to the deteriment of seeing how other solutions can be more effecitve, ie, we have to do it this way because we've always done it this way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ontheweb Posted February 8, 2023 #209 Share Posted February 8, 2023 14 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said: Not so simple. One can become emotionally involved in a specific solution to the deteriment of seeing how other solutions can be more effecitve, ie, we have to do it this way because we've always done it this way. Better, I have seen it work while I cannot see how the new way will work. I have a feeling that you are not going to thank me for correcting how you characterized the reactions of veteran seamen. 🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ontheweb Posted February 8, 2023 #210 Share Posted February 8, 2023 18 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said: Exactly the point. Does the inpersonmuster make cruising safer? How does a briefing no one can hear or see improve safety? Better question---How does the training of the crew improve when they do not train in a situation with the passengers. It has been pointed out that the first few old traditional muster drills have been a bit of a mess because the crews have not been doing them since the new e-muster drills. And it would be even worse if their performance was not good in a real muster situation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare www3traveler Posted February 8, 2023 #211 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) If all of you who believe there is a better system to the Muster Drill, then I respectfully request that you write a letter to the International Maritime Organzation in London, U.K. THEY are the only ones who can change how it is done. The cruise lines have no say in the matter nor does the United States Coast Guard. All but One Norwegian ships are foreign-registered (The Bahamas). The Bahamaian flag flies off the stern of every Norwegian ship except the Pride of America. Edited February 8, 2023 by www3traveler add a word 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketMan275 Posted February 8, 2023 #212 Share Posted February 8, 2023 38 minutes ago, ontheweb said: Better question---How does the training of the crew improve when they do not train in a situation with the passengers. It has been pointed out that the first few old traditional muster drills have been a bit of a mess because the crews have not been doing them since the new e-muster drills. And it would be even worse if their performance was not good in a real muster situation. I have a feeling that you are not going to thank me for correcting how you characterized the the 'mess' that occured at the inpersonmuster drill. It has been pointed out that the 'mess' occurred at the muster station during the safety briefing that was given. It has also been pointed out that this safety briefing isn't an important part of the muster drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketMan275 Posted February 8, 2023 #213 Share Posted February 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, www3traveler said: If all of you who believe there is a better system to the Muster Drill, then I respectfully request that you write a letter to the International Maritime Organzation in London, U.K. THEY are the only ones who can change how it is done. The cruise lines have no say in the matter nor does the United States Coast Guard. All but One Norwegian ships are foreign-registered (The Bahamas). The Bahamaian flag flies off the stern of every Norwegian ship except the Pride of America. I suggest all of you who believe that the inpersonmuster drill is a better system to the eMuster Drill, write a letter to the International Maritime Organzation in London, U.K. If the cruise lines have no say in this matter then why are Royal and Carnival keeping the emuster drill while NCL/Disney are reverting to the inpersonmuster drill to save money even though they believe the emuster provides better training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefMateJRK Posted February 8, 2023 #214 Share Posted February 8, 2023 57 minutes ago, www3traveler said: If all of you who believe there is a better system to the Muster Drill, then I respectfully request that you write a letter to the International Maritime Organzation in London, U.K. THEY are the only ones who can change how it is done. The cruise lines have no say in the matter nor does the United States Coast Guard. Shouldn't it be the cruise lines working with the IMO to negotiate better processes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted February 8, 2023 #215 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Just now, ChiefMateJRK said: Shouldn't it be the cruise lines working with the IMO to negotiate better processes? And, doesn't the fact that they haven't done this, make you wonder why? It makes me feel that the reason to keep the e-muster is for passenger convenience, and not safety, since the IMO could care less about passenger convenience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketMan275 Posted February 8, 2023 #216 Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 minute ago, chengkp75 said: And, doesn't the fact that they haven't done this, make you wonder why? It makes me feel that the reason to keep the e-muster is for passenger convenience, and not safety, since the IMO could care less about passenger convenience. Since the IMO hasn't forced Royal or Carnival return to the inpersonmuster drill, it tells me that IMO is satisfied with the emuster drill. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoCruiseFan Posted February 8, 2023 #217 Share Posted February 8, 2023 I'll gladly spend an hour to help ensure my safety in the event of an emergency 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefMateJRK Posted February 8, 2023 #218 Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said: Since the IMO hasn't forced Royal or Carnival return to the inpersonmuster drill, it tells me that IMO is satisfied with the emuster drill. Bingo!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefMateJRK Posted February 8, 2023 #219 Share Posted February 8, 2023 41 minutes ago, MoCruiseFan said: I'll gladly spend an hour to help ensure my safety in the event of an emergency So would I. I'm just not convinced that this cluster-drill has done anything to ensure my safety. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted February 8, 2023 #220 Share Posted February 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said: Bingo!!!! No, since the WHO still considers covid to be a health emergency, the IMO will keep the conditional approval for the e-muster, but still consider it subject to review of effectiveness of the training aspect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare scooter6139 Posted February 8, 2023 #221 Share Posted February 8, 2023 3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said: Not so simple. One can become emotionally involved in a specific solution to the deteriment of seeing how other solutions can be more effecitve, ie, we have to do it this way because we've always done it this way. Yes, not so simple as "one can become emotionally involved in a specific solution to the detriment of seeing how other solution can be more effective" IE, you read a single article from a paid for advertising site that quotes only a few sources and have taken it on blind faith. I don't know which one is safer and neither do you, nor do we know much else on this entire topic. Ergo we should probably listen to anyone who has experience on this, either from working on a cruise line OR been in actual emergency onboard a ship requiring lifeboat evacuation. 15 hours ago, ontheweb said: But does it make is safer? If not, what is the point of having a muster drill other than it is required? As I said, I don't know which one ultimately is safer. I prefer the E as it is just easier. Fact is, I probably learned the most from an old muster on the deck, as I knew what lifeboat was hopefully going to save my life if necessary. 34 minutes ago, ChiefMateJRK said: So would I. I'm just not convinced that this cluster-drill has done anything to ensure my safety. It will get better and more streamlined with repeat use, just like the cruising itself did right after restart. I recall reading about all that here on CC too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BirdTravels Posted February 8, 2023 #222 Share Posted February 8, 2023 4 hours ago, RocketMan275 said: Exactly the point. Does the inpersonmuster make cruising safer? How does a briefing no one can hear or see improve safety? Guess what??? It doesn't matter. Toot Toot Toot Toot Toot Toot Toooooooooooot. Line up. Count off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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