New rules for wheelchair users

[Selbourne]

14 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I believe that uploading of test results is the responsibility of your GP surgery so perhaps a conversation with the practice manager might help finding out where the results are in the system.  Presumably it depends on the type of tests and who carried them out but if you were told they would go back to your GP then they should have long ago arrived there for uploading. On the other hand if the tests are for a hospital doctor's consideration before a report is made they generally won't be available on the NHS app until that letter goes from the hospital and your delay will be with the hospital.  

I’ve spoken to the surgery as well. Whilst I am disheartened with many aspects of the NHS, my GP surgery is brilliant and the staff there could not be more helpful. I’ll try them again tomorrow though, before I commence formal complaint proceedings. The anxiety of not knowing is bad enough, but I need an answer before our insurance renews next month so as to avoid the problems experienced by @sandancer

[Megabear2]

Just now, Selbourne said:

I’ve spoken to the surgery as well. Whilst I am disheartened with many aspects of the NHS, my GP surgery is brilliant and the staff there could not be more helpful. I’ll try them again tomorrow though, before I commence formal complaint proceedings. The anxiety of not knowing is bad enough, but I need an answer before our insurance renews next month so as to avoid the problems experienced by @sandancer

Unfortunately any formal complaint will probably take a long time to be investigated.  I made one for a friend in very similar circumstances to those you describe and it took 5 months to be investigated.

 

As time is of the essence for you it would seem prudent to ask your surgery for help and also to call the hospital again to explain your predicament.  I assume letter you await was to be sent to you and your GP.  Experience says although the consultant's secretary has stated it's been prepared it may not have even been reviewed by the consultant at this stage.  

 

[cruising.mark.uk]

6 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Ask yourself, why is P&O the only brand where you can’t book an accessible cabin online. You can with Cunard and all other brands.

I don't know, but I sense that not allowing booking of these cabins online could benefit all parties.

 

We cruised on Princess in May in a Window Suite.  That could not be booked online.  While booking with a reservation agent, we asked why.  The answer was that they had encountered too many instances where individuals booked this category of cabin and then, notwithstanding the cabin title and website / deckplan descriptions of the cabin, complained on boarding that their suite did not have a balcony and demanded a move to a suite that did / compensation.

 

If that is indicative of the level of research that some customers carry out before booking online, requiring interaction with an agent to book an accessible cabin might have 3 advantages.  First, it would allow the agent to confirm that the customer actually knew they were trying to book an accessible cabin and that they need one, so as to mitigate the risk of them denying its use to someone who really does need it versus someone who had merely found it online and thought they'd like the bigger floorplace / balcony, without realising why the cabin is laid out as it is.  Second, it should help P&O understand the customer's requirements (cabin in which electric wheelchair can be recharged, need for evac chair etc) to ensure that they are booked in an appropriate cabin.  And, third, proactive signposting from the agent / towards the mobility questionnaire and other required documentation / information / gathering of the required info during the call should mitigate the likelihood of guests requiring mobility assistance being denied boarding because they haven't provided sufficient detail / completed all the necessary paperwork.

 

It seems to me that all of these would be beneficial to P&O and the passenger.  Notwithstanding the need for proactive engagement with a human agent, however, I agree with @Selbourne that it would also be useful if the availability of these cabins could be visible online and an effective waitlist system could be established so that those who need them can be informed if / when one becomes available and, even better, for an agent to proactively reach out to them when that happens and they reach the top of the waitlist.

[Dermotsgirl]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

I’ve been checking it daily but nothing so far. I think I’m going to make a formal complaint about it, as I don’t think there’s any excuse for leaving people worrying about whether or not they have an issue for so long. 

You are not alone - my husband had some tests in July that he still has not had results for, despite me chasing on his behalf, and even involving the hospital PALS. Last Thursday, his case was (allegedly) referred to the ‘colorectal multidisciplinary team meeting’, and we are awaiting the outcome…..  I think we’ll end up making a formal complaint about it - but it seems mad to have to complain about something so basic and fundamental.

 

1 hour ago, david63 said:

@Selbourne have you tried contacting the consultant's secretary? They seem to be the only ones that know what is going on and can get things moving when there is a hold up.

l have done this, which results in a brief flurry of activity, then it all goes quiet again 

[purplesea]

2 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Yes I have and they said it could take up to 4 weeks for the letter (which apparently is dictated within 24 hours of the appointment) to arrive. That time has now passed. 

I found myself in a very similar situation earlier this year. I had a MRI at the end of last year and was chasing my consultant's secretary, was then refered to the oncology department as I had had treatment there, and round and round the houses I went! I finally got the required answers less than a week before our cruise. 

I have got insurance with the bank, but they wouldn't cover me for this.

 

 

[grapau27]

10 hours ago, sandancer said:

I’m not a member of said group but have a dilemma which means I may have to look at this. Final payment due this week and awaiting medical test results. I rang our insurer to inform that these tests were going ahead and they now won’t renew our policy which ends this week also. If I make final payment and we then can’t travel, the resale of the cruise maybe our only option. Are P&O ok with this? I could move it and rebook if the tests are negative but then risk the evacuation chair we have been allocated is no longer available. 

I still have the NHS App on my phone and a previous blood test results was on the app very quickly.

The app has all of my vaccinations, medications,blood tests, appointments etc on it.

I would recommend to you and @Selbourne to look at this.

 

 

[Selbourne]

3 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

I still have the NHS App on my phone and a previous blood test results was on the app very quickly.

The app has all of my vaccinations, medications,blood tests, appointments etc on it.

I would recommend to you and @Selbourne to look at this.

 

 

I have (and use) both the NHS app and the Patient Access app Graham and agree it is usually a quick way to get test results. In this case however, neither has the results I am waiting for. 

[sandancer]

Both my husband and I have the app and use it regularly unfortunately in this instance it’s not just blood tests and both GP and consultant are involved. Unlike Selbourne we have not been waiting weeks. It’s just that due to bad timing we have to make final payment and renew the travel insurance this week. 

Edited Sunday at 07:37 PM by sandancer

[grapau27]

5 minutes ago, sandancer said:

Both my husband and I have the app and use it regularly unfortunately in this instance it’s not just blood tests and both GP and consultant are involved. Unlike Selbourne we have not been waiting weeks. It’s just that due to bad timing we have to make final payment and renew the travel insurance this week. 

When I had my heart attack nearly 5 years ago we rang our travel insurance and they cancelled the insurance immediately.

Pauline was talking to a lady at the hairdresser's last week and the lady's mother broke her leg while in the USA.

The cost was £100.000 and apparently on her medical records was a note she had mild osteoporosis that she had not disclosed to her Travel insurance company.

Insurance finally agreed to pay £10,000 but she had to get a loan to pay the £90.000 remaining.

[terrierjohn]

5 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

I believe that uploading of test results is the responsibility of your GP surgery so perhaps a conversation with the practice manager might help finding out where the results are in the system.  Presumably it depends on the type of tests and who carried them out but if you were told they would go back to your GP then they should have long ago arrived there for uploading. On the other hand if the tests are for a hospital doctor's consideration before a report is made they generally won't be available on the NHS app until that letter goes from the hospital and your delay will be with the hospital.  

I had an Echo done recently, privately because the NHS wait times were 6-8 weeks.

The letter from the private consultant was on my medical record on Systmonline, but the letter had no details in it, it was only when I studied the letter in landscape form that I noticed the tiny paper clip, which when pressed revealed the attached detailed results.

As someone else said recently, you learn something new every day.

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, Selbourne said:

I have (and use) both the NHS app and the Patient Access app Graham and agree it is usually a quick way to get test results. In this case however, neither has the results I am waiting for. 

A PS to my previous post, I found my Echo results on my Medical record and not on the Test results page.

[Megabear2]

Although not the ideal answer and no doubt a last resort, both Selbourne and Sandancer should be covered for cancellation if they find themselves with no answers about their medical test results or indeed find themselves unable to purchase a policy covering their medical conditions.

 

Whilst disappointing to not be able to take booked holidays the travel insurance Is booked as a "comfort " to prevent financial loss and travel insurance policies are written in such a way as to acknowledge this.

 

As I said elsewhere in this thread, by booking cruises a long way in advance we are effectively taking a gamble that our health and medical conditions remain unchanged or that nothing untoward occurs between the time of booking and the time of travel.  We have to be prepared to accept this and understand we have no divine right to have an insurer put us on cover just because we have a trip booked.  What we do have is a written contract that in the event our circumstances unfortunately change the most financial loss we will incur will be the loss of our insurance policy excess if we have one.

 

It is no one's fault if the timing of a medical investigation is inconvenient for us, the facts will not change and even once the result is received we have to accept that the insurer still has the right to say sorry we do not wish to cover you.

[Megabear2]

We all have our opinions on things happening in the wider society but at the end of the day that is all they are, our opinions and others will have opposing views. Some comments of the non cruising variety will clearly be quite hurtful and upsetting to other fellow posters no matter what topic they refer to. As this is a cruise forum not a discussion site for or against the NHS or those working from home it may be a good idea to actually return to the topic in hand, ie the situation regarding the new rules on wheelchairs and mobility aids.

[SoosieSoo]

I have been trying to book a cruise with P&O, I have cruised 25 or so times with them but the new 'evacuation chair' policy seems to mean that I will no longer be able to. 

 

I asked about 15 cruises, in April, May, and October 2025 and then the ones in 2026 as well (in desperation) one of the ones in 2026 has evacuation chairs available, I was quite excited but she then said, there are 19 chairs available but no accessible cabins...

 

The irony is that I use a mobility scooter and have done for many years however I can get up and down stairs and wouldn't actually need an evac chair for this. 

It feels like a kick in the teeth for equality and equal access to cruising. I simply won't be able to cruise any more if there is no availability.

[Megabear2]

9 minutes ago, SoosieSoo said:

I have been trying to book a cruise with P&O, I have cruised 25 or so times with them but the new 'evacuation chair' policy seems to mean that I will no longer be able to. 

 

I asked about 15 cruises, in April, May, and October 2025 and then the ones in 2026 as well (in desperation) one of the ones in 2026 has evacuation chairs available, I was quite excited but she then said, there are 19 chairs available but no accessible cabins...

 

The irony is that I use a mobility scooter and have done for many years however I can get up and down stairs and wouldn't actually need an evac chair for this. 

It feels like a kick in the teeth for equality and equal access to cruising. I simply won't be able to cruise any more if there is no availability.

I'm very sorry to hear of your difficulties. Unfortunately this is very topical at present, even making The One Show where P&O offered no explanation of the new policy.  Although it will be little comfort to you, this issue is a hot topic at present.  Unfortunately P&O appear to have contacted hundreds of people with bookings who have motorised mobility aids and have basically told them to move to other cruises or cancelled them.  This appears to have used up a very large number of the available cabins going forward leaving very little availability for new bookings. 

 

Are P&O operating any sort of wait list in the event of cancellations, if not it would appear your only option at present will be to keep checking back, possibly after final payment date on cruises you are interested in.

 

I hope things improve for you and you are lucky in your search. Good luck.

 

 

[david63]

3 hours ago, SoosieSoo said:

It feels like a kick in the teeth for equality and equal access to cruising.

Unfortunately, from P&O's position, safety overrides equality.

[SoosieSoo]

1 hour ago, david63 said:

Unfortunately, from P&O's position, safety overrides equality.

Telling disabled people what they need instead of asking them is never a good idea. I don’t believe it’s about safety at all. It would be far safer for me (for example) to walk down some stairs than to try to get onto an evacuation chair. Their whole policy is badly written and creates a distinction between wheelchairs and scooters that does not exist in law.
Don’t get me started on ‘full time disabled’ I find it really offensive to be told by them that I am not properly disabled, in their opinion.

 

[S1971]

9 hours ago, david63 said:

Unfortunately, from P&O's position, safety overrides equality.

 

On what grounds, P&O and Cunard have operated without this drastic rule change for decades.

 

I've yet to see any official change in law which justifies these changes, to my knowledge no other mainstream operator including Carnival US has implemented them in such a way.

 

I'm still of the opinion that this is more to do with reducing the numbers of those who need mobility scooters and chairs, by doing so they reduce to need for emergency staff allocation which intern reduces the overall crew requirement and saves money.

 

Even when questioned on TV they were unable to answer it, which tells it's own story.

[AchileLauro]

12 hours ago, david63 said:

Unfortunately, from P&O's position, safety overrides equality.

It's nothing to do with inequality or discrimination, its a simple matter of legal responsibility. 

 

The fact that cruise lines have barely or only partially complied with their duties in the past has led to the present situation, and as per the norm when legislation is fully applied for the first time it leads to upset.  

 

More so because of the cack handed way that P&O have in their usual poor public relations way gone about introducing change with immediate effect and no warning or consideration given to their customers, many of whom would have booked up some considerable time before.

[Victoria2]

1 hour ago, AchileLauro said:

It's nothing to do with inequality or discrimination, its a simple matter of legal responsibility. 

 

The fact that cruise lines have barely or only partially complied with their duties in the past has led to the present situation, and as per the norm when legislation is fully applied for the first time it leads to upset.  

 

More so because of the cack handed way that P&O have in their usual poor public relations way gone about introducing change with immediate effect and no warning or consideration given to their customers, many of whom would have booked up some considerable time before.

I have to agree and this is from one where the ruling would impact on us on Cunard if we weren't lucky enough to have  'correct cabins' already booked.

 

What is unforgivable is, as you say, the 'cack handed' way it's been implemented which leads to all sorts of speculation which in turn, does neither line any favours.👎

[Megabear2]

42 minutes ago, AchileLauro said:

It's nothing to do with inequality or discrimination, its a simple matter of legal responsibility. 

 

The fact that cruise lines have barely or only partially complied with their duties in the past has led to the present situation, and as per the norm when legislation is fully applied for the first time it leads to upset.  

 

More so because of the cack handed way that P&O have in their usual poor public relations way gone about introducing change with immediate effect and no warning or consideration given to their customers, many of whom would have booked up some considerable time before.

You clearly feel very strongly that is a safety issue.  Across P&O and Cunard we have 11 ships in total, that's out of a total of around 323 operating worldwide from 50 cruise lines.  If it is a safety issue alone why do you believe these two cruise lines are so inherently different or dangerous than the other 48 lines' ships and what makes these 11 ships need different rules to the other 312 vessels carrying cruise passengers?

 

Presumably any law or safety matter introduced or being introduced would affect every one of these other cruise lines, yet apart from some tightening up by Carnival US and Princess regarding keeping corridors clear and insisting on chairs and scooters being in cabins (which of course they always should have been), I have been unable to find anything similar to the P&O/Cunard declarations for non motorised mobility aids such as walking sticks, rollators etc,or indeed any other line cancelling or forcing passengers to move their cruises or telling them they can use their booked cabins only if they use a manual wheelchair instead of their power one.

 

Is it really feasible that P&O and Cunard have more passengers with mobility difficulties than 48 other cruise lines and that they are any more a safety hazard in the event of an emergency situation than on the other 312 vessels sailing the oceans?

 

For context I have taken the figures from Cruisemummy as she is someone most on these boards are familiar with, but a Google search confirms these numbers multiple times.

 

https://www.cruisemummy.co.uk/cruise-industry-statistics-facts/

[S1971]

1 hour ago, AchileLauro said:

The fact that cruise lines have barely or only partially complied with their duties in the past has led to the present situation, and as per the norm when legislation is fully applied for the first time it leads to upset.  

 

As someone who is not aware of the full legislation or legal responsibility, what exactly is it that the cruieslines have failed to comply with for many years and what's changed recently that Carnival UK have decided to implement such a dramatic change?

 

Obviously they have to have an emergency evacuation plan and a place for all passengers and crew on lifeboats or rafts etc

 

Does the legislation specifically mention mobilty scooters etc and evac chairs or is this more likely to be something Carnival UK have put in place to suit them.

[Victoria2]

Megabear2 as you say, these two lines seem to be the only ones at the moment with this ruling which leads me to think, there must/might be a reason and we, the passengers involved have not been given privy to that reason.

 

Until more information is given, the speculation will not enhance the reputation of either line  with those who have and will be impacted.

 

edit, I feel dreadfully sorry for those who will have had their imminent cruises cancelled, never mind those in the months to come and hope the full fare paid, will be refunded.

 

Edited Tuesday at 09:59 AM by Victoria2

[AchileLauro]

How many cruise lines have actually fully tested their emergency evacuation procedures in a realistic way? How many disabled persons especially those with any sort of mobility issue have been fully truthful or realistic as to their abilities or rather inabilities in a real life emergency?

In the past have any cruise lines been producing a PEP assessment for passengers identified as requiring one (assuming that maritime safety legislation is similar to land based EU/UK legislation)? These are the sort of questions you should be asking.

 

Frankly speaking and I'm not being disrespectful here, the problem is that cruising has become too popular with the disabled and has overwhelmed the actual capabilities of cruise lines to adequately manage emergency evacuation procedures in an emergency. The same problem isn't confined to just cruise lines but actually exists on land too with too few hotels asking the relevant questions that they should ask when you book, or providing the necessary specialist evacuation equipment or staff to be able to evacuate all persons irrespective of mobility or disability without reliance on the intervention of the emergency services. At sea there are no readily available emergency services and ship's must be totally self reliant.

 

[Victoria2]

I prefer cruising for those with less than full health has become very popular rather than too popular but in my untutored opinion, the numbers on our Cunard cruises do seem have to have increased over the years so H&S  might be the reason a 'stopper' of sorts is now being applied.

Other than that, until 'we' are informed, 'we' don't know.