Complimentary wines

[Vineyard View]

Johng75370’s post #32 with updated wine listing, while better than the one with Mateus, still offers a huge percentage of sub-par wines. In looking at the reds, with the exception of Raymond Cab (and the Pinot which is still a shaky choice), all the reds retail in the $10-$16 range. That is totally unacceptable on a line such as SB. It is what I would expect on mass market lines. 
 

To kej1’s point, we are seeing significant price reductions on great wines for the reason stated. Case in point, one of the wineries we are club members of sent out an offer at 60% off their (wonderful) wines last month. Needless to say, I went over my budget with that deal! 
Just this past week another wine holding company filed chapter 11.  2 wineries in Napa and 4 in Sonoma went up for bid. Costco is bringing on wines at great prices unlike since 2008. 
So yes, there are really good wines to be had - and they are certainly not showing up at SB. Someone responsible at corporate for this piece is asleep at the wheel. 
 

At year over year 30% increase in SB fares, I believe it is reasonable to expect more. 
 

And -  let’s not forget the lack of VSOP! 

[pyffii]

I really do hope that SB are reading and understanding the dire need to move the complimentary wine offerings to a much higher level.....here's hoping that our April cruise on Ovation will show an improvement 🙏

[highplanesdrifters]

17 hours ago, kej1 said:

The complimentary wines were below average on our 30 day Pursuit cruise last spring in the South Pacific.  We  made due some of the time with the Louis Latour Chard and the rose from Provence ( servers were excellent btw in knowing what we wanted everywhere on the ship), but mostly purchased premium wines at dinner - especially red although they ran out of many.   We don’t drink cocktails so wine with meals and as cocktails is important to us.  Living in San Francisco we are well aware the wine industry is really suffering right now in California.  Lots of overproduction and younger people are not drinking much wine.  Was in the news today that Constellation one of the huge liquor distributors nation wide is suffering financially due to large decreased wine sales.  Duckhorn ( California) which produces very nice and very popular wines  in the mid range made the news as sales way down as well.  I understand Seabourn is struggling post Covid but now would be a great time for a savvy purchasing person to acquire some at least better wines at great prices.  IMHO!  Just a suggestion if anyone from Seabourn mgmt is listening!  Great time to up the wine game!  Don’t expect the best but better than white zin and some of the others named by the OP that are really poor.  We still had a very nice time but “ fine wines” is false advertising!  

 

I think you should volunteer to be on Seabourns tasting team. 😂

[marazul]

On 9/3/2024 at 1:17 PM, johng75370 said:

@Vineyard View, thanks for the suggestion.  I sent an email on Sunday, and promptly received a personalized response this morning (noting both my most recent and my upcoming voyage).  Here’s the bulk of it (without personal details):

 

Ms. Leahy has reviewed your comments and asked me to respond on her behalf, and to express her sincere regret for the disappointment you experienced.

 

We are disheartened to learn of your concerns regarding the quality of our complimentary wine program. Your comments regarding a lack of many options onboard, as well as the wine and cognac available being cheap, are truly disappointing. Please be assured that we have not reduced the level of investment in this program; in fact we are looking at a number of changes intended to refresh and enhance our offerings. In addition, we continue to provide our guests with an inviting selection of premium wines and spirits for purchase. Maintaining and investing in the quality and integrity of Seabourn is a priority at every level, and will not be compromised.

Nice form letter. Just got mine.  No mention of the VSOP issue.

I hope someone is listening and it is not just a polite brush off.

[Robisan]

All I want for Christmas is video of Natalya serving and drinking Beringer While Zin at a hosted table. I want to see the look on her face when she swallows.

 

[Vineyard View]

2 hours ago, marazul said:

Nice form letter. Just got mine.  No mention of the VSOP issue.

I hope someone is listening and it is not just a polite brush off.

Just got the same form letter. Smoke and mirrors. No mention of vsop. I am taking some deeper breaths before I respond, but respond I will. 
 

However, our TA forwarded my concerns and the SB response was that their ‘sommeliers’ work hard to have their cellars are well stocked….etc. Sorry. No sommelier would be choosing the daily wines I am seeing posted, or they seriously need to find a new profession. That is HAL purchasing.  
 

Secondly, they confirmed only two brands of VS Cognac. No VSOP. 
 

 

[pyffii]

Please note everyone that the Sommelier only SERVES the wine ....they have no input on purchasing which is exclusively a head office requirement....As I have said previously I could select at least 2 dozen Australian reds that RETAIL below $20AUD that would knock the socks off anything that Seabourn has currently available on any of their fleet....Very happy to be part of a advisory purchasing group having spent 20+ years as a retailer selling fine wines

 

Edited September 7 by pyffii
poor language

[Vineyard View]

41 minutes ago, pyffii said:

Please note everyone that the Sommelier only SERVES the wine ....they have no input on purchasing which is exclusively a head office requirement....As I have said previously I could select at least 2 dozen Australian reds that RETAIL below $20AUD that would knock the socks off anything that Seabourn has currently available on any of their fleet....Very happy to be part of a advisory purchasing group having spent 20+ years as a retailer selling fine wines

 

Totally agree. It was Seabourn who called out the sommeliers as making the selections in their responses.  That is part of why I called it smoke and mirrors. 
 I am no expert by any means, even though I was in the industry, but, it seems that  the advisory group has become HAL purchasing,  with little Oenophile background. 
 

[marazul]

55 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

Totally agree. It was Seabourn who called out the sommeliers as making the selections in their responses.  That is part of why I called it smoke and mirrors. 
 I am no expert by any means, even though I was in the industry, but, it seems that  the advisory group has become HAL purchasing,  with little Oenophile background. 
 

I wonder if other boards are talking about this too.

[brittany12]

Yes Really good discussion here.  We've all been around. Yes plenty of false advertising and now smoke and mirrors.   But the cheap and bad wines problem  on the comp list has been around for years.  I remember Aussies complaining back in 2012 that there were no Australian wines or beers on board a Bali to Sydney Seabourn Odyssey cruise. They were really upset.  Its worse now and a new low in my book when Mateus and Berlinger white zin make an appearance. 

[Vineyard View]

And so, what is the solution?  No sarcasm meant. 

I have no issue with pushing back on these responses as they are unacceptable. I will respond in the next couple of days to these cut and paste responses. Will it make a difference? IDK. I would like to think that SB does not want to loose established, as well as new customers. 

[brittany12]

3 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

And so, what is the solution?  No sarcasm meant. 

I have no issue with pushing back on these responses as they are unacceptable. I will respond in the next couple of days to these cut and paste responses. Will it make a difference? IDK. I would like to think that SB does not want to loose established, as well as new customers. 

I honestly don't know a solution that would please us who know wines and feel this way. Seabourn has a certain budget to buy wines and if wholesale wine prices go down so will their budget.  They need to keep a relatively weak inventory of complimentary wines to stimulate premium  wine sales to bring in the needed more revenue. And I think those of us who are knowledgeable and feel this way  are a real minority onboard. Too many don't care enough or just don't know. 

[caviargal]

We were very pleased with the included wines on our Regent cruise this month and on Silversea in July and March.  We do collect wines and have a good sized cellar.  That said, we enjoy Seabourn far more than these two brands.

We will be on Encore in the Med in a few weeks and plan to visit the local wine stores and bring a few bottles on board.

I wish they would address the issue but, in the meantime, we will BYOB.

[Vineyard View]

6 hours ago, caviargal said:

We were very pleased with the included wines on our Regent cruise this month and on Silversea in July and March.  We do collect wines and have a good sized cellar.  That said, we enjoy Seabourn far more than these two brands.

We will be on Encore in the Med in a few weeks and plan to visit the local wine stores and bring a few bottles on board.

I wish they would address the issue but, in the meantime, we will BYOB.

DH and I were discussing just this. Last year we brought just two special bottles on board from our Venice pre-stay. Next year, from the sounds of this, we will likely up that quantity. 
I guess I will research a bit ahead. 
But…….we shouldn’t have to.

Please let us know the updated wine list caviargal. 

[Vineyard View]

12 hours ago, brittany12 said:

I honestly don't know a solution that would please us who know wines and feel this way. Seabourn has a certain budget to buy wines and if wholesale wine prices go down so will their budget.  They need to keep a relatively weak inventory of complimentary wines to stimulate premium  wine sales to bring in the needed more revenue. And I think those of us who are knowledgeable and feel this way  are a real minority onboard. Too many don't care enough or just don't know. 

Maybe you are correct. Maybe it is a small % of people on board, that collect and have a preference better wines, as some of us do. That said, purchasing really should separate their choices of wines from HAL and SB. Completely different revenue income.
It would be interesting to see a current wine list from HAL…….as well as Cognac. Might be interesting to ask for a wine package snapshot from someone on the HAL board…….

[galeforce9]

@Vineyard View @caviargal I will be on in a week.  Will share also 

 

[Vineyard View]

21 minutes ago, galeforce9 said:

@Vineyard View @caviargal I will be on in a week.  Will share also 

 

Thank you! 
 

I don’t think any of us are suggesting high end complimentary wine. Not the wine in our cellars. 
But…..red wine that sells retail $10-$18 is mass market wine. There are wines in between that we buy as well. The $10-$18 should ship to HAL…..not to SB. 

[johng75370]

Personally, I’m thinking the percent of passengers who care about their wines and spirits is pretty high (maybe a quarter to half), and the worse the wine quality is the more people will bring their own.  Let SB deal with keeping track who brought what, and where to store all the wine suitcases.  We typically bring a special bottle or two also but may need to up that.  At least Seabourn handles wines well; the Caymus Special Selection we brought onboard Explora was “generously” shared by the waiter with other tables as he thought it was just one of their included wines 😮

 

We’ve done three SB sailings in the past 12 months, and all of them had “typical” wine lists - nothing like the Encore list.  If anything, they were slightly better than usual.  I’m still hoping the Encore list was an abberation, and the only real issue here is the downgrade of cognac.  Fingers crossed.   

 

 

[purpleally]

1 hour ago, johng75370 said:

Personally, I’m thinking the percent of passengers who care about their wines and spirits is pretty high (maybe a quarter to half), and the worse the wine quality is the more people will bring their own.  Let SB deal with keeping track who brought what, and where to store all the wine suitcases.  We typically bring a special bottle or two also but may need to up that.  At least Seabourn handles wines well; the Caymus Special Selection we brought onboard Explora was “generously” shared by the waiter with other tables as he thought it was just one of their included wines 😮

 

We’ve done three SB sailings in the past 12 months, and all of them had “typical” wine lists - nothing like the Encore list.  If anything, they were slightly better than usual.  I’m still hoping the Encore list was an abberation, and the only real issue here is the downgrade of cognac.  Fingers crossed.   

 

 

Did Seabourn reimburse you

[johng75370]

1 hour ago, purpleally said:

Did Seabourn reimburse you

If you mean Explora for sharing with others the wine we brought, no.  We just chalked it up to them being new and the staff not being trained properly.  Explora is a good cruise option for shorter voyages, but OMG their included wines are really cheap, and their premium wines are incredibly expensive (from our perspective).  Over time I hope they sort it out, but the two sailings we've had with them really made us appreciate Seabourn for details like this.  

Edited September 7 by johng75370

[Mahogany]

I've a solution: $100/pp per day SBC to spend on the premium wine and spirits lists!!🍷🍸

[B-HQC]

I find the complimentary wines to deplorable (other than the La Scola Gavi which is ok) but in terms of priorities I'm not sure more investment by Seabourn in this area is the way to go.

 

First of all, I know I don't sail as much as many of you, but as a once a year guest for the past couple of years (mainly on 7-12 night sailings) I don't find the selection to be markedly worse than what it was say in 2015. The pours are noticibly smaller, but I was always shocked by the amount of wine wasted (literally almost full glasses at many tables, every venue, every meal), which I guess is due to a combinaiton of it being free and generally not very pleasant. So I find the smaller pours to be a plus, and you can always ask for more.

 

What has improved are the offers avaliable - fares have been lower as of late and the OBCs almost comically high. For the past 2 years, I've been able to order a ~$200 bottle of wine every night at dinner, and the list is fairly reasonably priced, generally somewhere between wholesale and restuarant prices, although you have to be fairly knolwedgeable to know what is a rip off and what's not. Admittedly the list is not particularly inspired, but there's enough to interest anybody in my opinon. And on my last Venture voyage this year, they were even offering 25-50% off many of the bottles on the list. Tthis combined with the wine packages - basically another 25% off  for the highest tier which is easy to reach if you order wine every night -  plus the Club benefit on top - meant the OBCs really went a long way.

 

So for me, I truly think Seabourn's money would be better spent on higher quality ingredients (on non "chef's dinner" nights :)) and more staff, not bigger pours of what is really poor wine.

[galeforce9]

2 hours ago, B-HQC said:

I find the complimentary wines to deplorable (other than the La Scola Gavi which is ok) but in terms of priorities I'm not sure more investment by Seabourn in this area is the way to go.

 

First of all, I know I don't sail as much as many of you, but as a once a year guest for the past couple of years (mainly on 7-12 night sailings) I don't find the selection to be markedly worse than what it was say in 2015. The pours are noticibly smaller, but I was always shocked by the amount of wine wasted (literally almost full glasses at many tables, every venue, every meal), which I guess is due to a combinaiton of it being free and generally not very pleasant. So I find the smaller pours to be a plus, and you can always ask for more.

 

What has improved are the offers avaliable - fares have been lower as of late and the OBCs almost comically high. For the past 2 years, I've been able to order a ~$200 bottle of wine every night at dinner, and the list is fairly reasonably priced, generally somewhere between wholesale and restuarant prices, although you have to be fairly knolwedgeable to know what is a rip off and what's not. Admittedly the list is not particularly inspired, but there's enough to interest anybody in my opinon. And on my last Venture voyage this year, they were even offering 25-50% off many of the bottles on the list. Tthis combined with the wine packages - basically another 25% off  for the highest tier which is easy to reach if you order wine every night -  plus the Club benefit on top - meant the OBCs really went a long way.

 

So for me, I truly think Seabourn's money would be better spent on higher quality ingredients (on non "chef's dinner" nights :)) and more staff, not bigger pours of what is really poor wine.

Any recs for the premium list please?

[lincslady]

Just seen (on the Crystal board) a complimentary list from Crystal Serenity, and have to say that on a cursory inspection it looks streets ahead in quantity and probably quality to Seabourn's.  Though the poster did have some problems with a sommelier!

[Miss Merry]

Thanks you Lincslady for drawing my attention to the Crystal complimentary wine list.  I did look at Crystal a while ago but the ships didn’t appeal.  Husband drinks white wine and I only drink red wine, no spirits/cocktails etc so am very conscious of what Seabourn offer.  The July/August Ovation cruise was such a huge disappoint when it came to complimentary wines I’ve just  had a look at Crystal, see below, what a huge difference, almost makes me want to try Crystal, almost, but not quite.  Come on Seabourn up your game.