Carnival loyalty means nothing anymore

[SwordBlazer Cruising]

Be thankful Carnival does not "status" match like other cruiselines. If you want to direct anger, go to MSC and RCI. I feel like its a slap in the face that someone can be matched to my status that I paid for handsomely over the years ( MSC) Carnivals loyalty program is not that much different than others, + airlines and hotels in the aspect of you are getting much less a a "perk or thank you"  and the rates have gone up. 

[aborgman]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

 They will go with perceived values.

 

...but highest perceived value, and highest bidder aren't the same thing... and both ignore costs.

 

A) NCL offers someone living in Tampa a free cruise out of NYC with $200 OBC

B) Carnival offers someone living in Tampa a free cruise out of Tampa with $150 OBC.

 

A is the highest bidder.

 

...but I'd bet in the great majority of cases, B gets many more takers. So the highest bidder IS NOT necessarily who they are going with.

 

The offer with the greatest "benefit - cost" number is the one most will take, not the one with just the highest benefit ignoring costs.

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

...but highest perceived value, and highest bidder aren't the same thing... and both ignore costs.

 

A) NCL offers someone living in Tampa a free cruise out of NYC with $200 OBC

B) Carnival offers someone living in Tampa a free cruise out of Tampa with $150 OBC.

 

A is the highest bidder.

 

...but I'd bet in the great majority of cases, B gets many more takers. So the highest bidder IS NOT necessarily who they are going with.

 

The offer with the greatest "benefit - cost" number is the one most will take, not the one with just the highest benefit ignoring costs.

A cherry picked example, of course. I bet you can come up with different scenarios and outcomes. Offer something less objective.

 

 

[aborgman]

53 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

A cherry picked example, of course. I bet you can come up with different scenarios and outcomes. Offer something less objective.

 

 

 

I can come up with lots of scenarios - and in all of them people pick the largest delta between cost and benefit for their personal situation, which may or may not be the highest bidder.

 

...and why in the world would you want something less objective? That makes no sense.

[BlerkOne]

58 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

I can come up with lots of scenarios - and in all of them people pick the largest delta between cost and benefit for their personal situation, which may or may not be the highest bidder.

 

...and why in the world would you want something less objective? That makes no sense.

Perception is everything.

[SwordBlazer Cruising]

6 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

...but highest perceived value, and highest bidder aren't the same thing... and both ignore costs.

 

A) NCL offers someone living in Tampa a free cruise out of NYC with $200 OBC

B) Carnival offers someone living in Tampa a free cruise out of Tampa with $150 OBC.

 

A is the highest bidder.

 

...but I'd bet in the great majority of cases, B gets many more takers. So the highest bidder IS NOT necessarily who they are going with.

 

The offer with the greatest "benefit - cost" number is the one most will take, not the one with just the highest benefit ignoring costs.

Please provide some factual data on this since it appears you know the customer lifecycle of the cruise lines guests. You really don't know, much like everyone else including me. 

[aborgman]

11 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Perception is everything.

 

Perception is A thing, but not everything... and perception plays into each individuals cost/benefit analysis.

 

10 hours ago, SwordBlazer Cruising said:

Please provide some factual data on this since it appears you know the customer lifecycle of the cruise lines guests. You really don't know, much like everyone else including me. 

 

Please provide some factual data that consumers generally pick the choice with greatest benefit-cost vs. the choice with lowest price/highest incentive?

 

Plenty of basic research showing that humans are generally rational consumers within the bounds of information they have access to.

 

 

[SwordBlazer Cruising]

2 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Perception is A thing, but not everything... and perception plays into each individuals cost/benefit analysis.

 

 

Please provide some factual data that consumers generally pick the choice with greatest benefit-cost vs. the choice with lowest price/highest incentive?

 

Plenty of basic research showing that humans are generally rational consumers within the bounds of information they have access to.

 

 

I disagree with your opinion and very sure a company like Walmart does as well. 

[aborgman]

4 minutes ago, SwordBlazer Cruising said:

I disagree with your opinion and very sure a company like Walmart does as well. 

 

No - Walmart's entire business model is based on providing the best benefit-cost by having low prices AND infiltrating every community in the USA to the extent that 90% of the US population lives within 10 miles of a Walmart... and by providing almost every product to minimize trips.

 

It's a combination of low prices, easy access, and serving a wide range of needs in a single venue.

 

 

[SwordBlazer Cruising]

29 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

No - Walmart's entire business model is based on providing the best benefit-cost by having low prices AND infiltrating every community in the USA to the extent that 90% of the US population lives within 10 miles of a Walmart... and by providing almost every product to minimize trips.

 

It's a combination of low prices, easy access, and serving a wide range of needs in a single venue.

 

 

Ok, it apparent that you seem to be a SME. I am and sure others here are done with you. Take care and enjoy from the sidelines. 

[StephPS79]

While I'm amazed this tired debate is still going on, I'm still not certain what the argument is.  If the casino perks (i.e. comp room) are the separate loyalty program, yet alone inflating prices for the average, hard-working consumer - how would removing comp bookings from the Carnival loyalty program and eliminating "free days" being counted towards loyalty solve the problem?

 

I think most people booking casino comp rooms would continue to book casino comp rooms without the free laundry perk.

[jimbo5544]

33 minutes ago, StephPS79 said:

While I'm amazed this tired debate is still going on, I'm still not certain what the argument is.  If the casino perks (i.e. comp room) are the separate loyalty program, yet alone inflating prices for the average, hard-working consumer - how would removing comp bookings from the Carnival loyalty program and eliminating "free days" being counted towards loyalty solve the problem?

 

I think most people booking casino comp rooms would continue to book casino comp rooms without the free laundry perk.

Not sure I understand the questions you pose, but here are my thoughts.  Loyalty programs cost money, and yet appreciated and desired by guests.  If casino comps are included in “the loyalty program” then there are WAY more participants, hence including them when they get the room at the very least highly discounted, it would add to the cost of the loyalty program.  The logic in the discussion to treat casino comps (and all of the associated comps and perks) separate is that it would accomplish several things.  Remove them from the existing loyalty program which un-ruffles feathers and they can do whatever they need to entice casino player loyalty.  It also clears the deck in the over abundance of participation in the existing program (which will change).    

[aborgman]

31 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Loyalty programs cost money

 

I think that is the crux of the disagreement.

 

Loyalty programs are net money makers, not net cost centers.

[BlerkOne]

5 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Perception is A thing, but not everything... and perception plays into each individuals cost/benefit analysis.

 

 

Please provide some factual data that consumers generally pick the choice with greatest benefit-cost vs. the choice with lowest price/highest incentive?

 

Plenty of basic research showing that humans are generally rational consumers within the bounds of information they have access to.

 

 

You confuse humans and cyborgs. I reject your opinion.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, aborgman said:

 

I think that is the crux of the disagreement.

 

Loyalty programs are net money makers, not net cost centers.

Loyalty programs are marketing programs. You are assuming you know what the desired result is.

[aborgman]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Loyalty programs are marketing programs. You are assuming you know what the desired result is.

 

The desired result at the macro level is the same for all marketing programs - increasing profit on the chosen time scale.

[BlerkOne]

9 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

The desired result at the macro level is the same for all marketing programs - increasing profit on the chosen time scale.

No.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

I think that is the crux of the disagreement.

 

Loyalty programs are net money makers, not net cost centers.

The same is true for the stockholders' OBC. It makes more money than it costs, yet periodically there are posts in here speculating that the Carnival Corporation will get rid of it.

[Colorado Beach Bum]

3 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Remove them from the existing loyalty program which un-ruffles feathers and they can do whatever they need to entice casino player loyalty.

It un-ruffles on one side but ruffles the other.  Both sides have good points/opinions.  We get casino comp rooms but still value the loyalty program.  Carnival is more than just a casino - we enjoy the shows, comedy, etc like everyone else.  And yes, the loyalty like Diamond lunch, laundry, priority keeps us coming back.  We could get comps anywhere but the loyalty program does add something to the choice.  
 

My opinion is that if it was taken away or split as two loyalty programs, casino loyalty things would probably equal many of the same things.  Elite offers right now give you platinum benefits for that cruise. 

[JMAE]

In my opinion, in some situations CCL's program is a broken loyalty program since on cruises with a large number of Platinum and Diamond cruises the "better" program benefits are suspended.  An example, you selected a cruise with water shuttlers and thought your VIFP benefits would provide priority service. later you find out the benefit was suspended, and often other benefits are suspended too. So, the result is no VIFP benefit(s) other than one drink, a pin and a VIFP gift.  I agree with an earlier comment the retooled program should include individual benefits like free/discounted internet, dining options, etc.  but we should be hearing about the updated program soon.                 

[BlerkOne]

55 minutes ago, JMAE said:

In my opinion, in some situations CCL's program is a broken loyalty program since on cruises with a large number of Platinum and Diamond cruises the "better" program benefits are suspended.  An example, you selected a cruise with water shuttlers and thought your VIFP benefits would provide priority service. later you find out the benefit was suspended, and often other benefits are suspended too. So, the result is no VIFP benefit(s) other than one drink, a pin and a VIFP gift.  I agree with an earlier comment the retooled program should include individual benefits like free/discounted internet, dining options, etc.  but we should be hearing about the updated program soon.                 

One of the things leading to premature death is awarding VIFP points on free cruises.

 

The new program won't expand the upper tiers, but will likely beef up the lowest tiers, as it should.

[wendysue44]

On 9/23/2024 at 8:10 AM, Ilovesailaway said:

The formula Holland America uses for thier loyalty program gives points for nights on and amount spent. I have just started cruising HA in the last few years and I have built points and moved up the ranks a lot faster there.

Maybe Carnival should base thier loyalty program soley on the cost paid for the cruise and the amount spent on board. This certainly would have been helpful when I was booking multiple rooms for family vacation.

That sure would benefit those of us who are solo cruisers who always pay for two. Not a complaint as I love cruising with Carnival, just a point.

 

[jimbo5544]

4 hours ago, Colorado Beach Bum said:

It un-ruffles on one side but ruffles the other.  Both sides have good points/opinions.  We get casino comp rooms but still value the loyalty program.  Carnival is more than just a casino - we enjoy the shows, comedy, etc like everyone else.  And yes, the loyalty like Diamond lunch, laundry, priority keeps us coming back.  We could get comps anywhere but the loyalty program does add something to the choice.  
 

My opinion is that if it was taken away or split as two loyalty programs, casino loyalty things would probably equal many of the same things.  Elite offers right now give you platinum benefits for that cruise. 

sounds like double dipping to me, but that is just JMHO.  Too me they are totally different.  They can offer another perk to casino players (if getting free rooms, dinners, bottles etc is not enough.  People who pay for rooms only have one option.  Apples and orangutans.  I can understand why you would not want to give up the perks of the loyalty program, same reason I do.   

[jimbo5544]

3 hours ago, JMAE said:

In my opinion, in some situations CCL's program is a broken loyalty program since on cruises with a large number of Platinum and Diamond cruises the "better" program benefits are suspended.  An example, you selected a cruise with water shuttlers and thought your VIFP benefits would provide priority service. later you find out the benefit was suspended, and often other benefits are suspended too. So, the result is no VIFP benefit(s) other than one drink, a pin and a VIFP gift.  I agree with an earlier comment the retooled program should include individual benefits like free/discounted internet, dining options, etc.  but we should be hearing about the updated program soon.                 

Describe for me what soon means.

[BlerkOne]

4 hours ago, Colorado Beach Bum said:

 

My opinion is that if it was taken away or split as two loyalty programs, casino loyalty things would probably equal many of the same things.  Elite offers right now give you platinum benefits for that cruise. 

Perhaps, but the casino budget would be paying for casino perks.