Read the Fine Print!

[wolfgang36]

Is there a customer-focused cruise line? I am beginning to doubt it. After a horrible experience on RCI with the Bears, we decided to book with HAL. We have not cruised HAL since 1993 when we were on the old Noordam and she was hit by a freighter. Put a 50' hole in the ship. They flooded the other side to bring the hole up above the waterline so that we would not sink.

 

That is just a side note to my recent experience. We booked a spring cruise on Westerdam through a TA the day after Christmas. Put a hold on the cabin and final payment was due by the 30th. We called in our credit card number (waited 45 minutes on hold) and left town to visit our grandchildren for the holiday. When we returned, we had our final statement. We called our friends who cruise with us and told them of the arrangements. We were leaving on Sunday. They needed to do Saturday to Saturday. The Zuiderdam leaves on Saturday from the same port. So I said that's fine, I'll call and change it to the day before. WRONG!! While we were out of town, we moved several days into the PENALTY PHASE!!! WHOOOO!

 

We CAN move. For $900! So, our friends will be sailing the Caribbean the same time we are on another ship. We were going to have to pay more for our cabin on the Z., AND I talked my friends into giving HAL a try. They are loyal RCI. HAL does not give a rip. After trying to kill us, you would think that they would be happy to get another chance to regain our trust.

 

So my message here is don't get in a hurry, don't think that they care about you as a person and read the fine print!

[hammybee]

That you failed to read the cancellation policy and that your TA also did not communicate it to you, prior to your final payment, is a darn shame. That HAL should make an exception for you because you and your friends got your wires crossed, seems rather silly from a business perspective.

 

Every single passenger who wants to cancel after the final payment date believes they have a valid reason to do so and should be an exception to the rule. If cruise lines accommodated every request to cancel without penalty, we would be sailing rafts made of popcicle sticks. :)

 

You have posted here before. I hope you took my advice and checked, in advance of booking, to make sure there were no groups on your intended cruise that might offend you, because all cruise lines book group tour business.

 

Regardless of your bias against HAL, I hope you can put your most unfortunate 1993 experience and this current situation behind you and enjoy your cruise.

[SandyMc]

I'm sorry you are so upset with HAL and really do understand your frustration. I followed your thread on the RCI board recently so I know you came back to HAL already looking for "bear". Still - it's going a bit far saying they owe you for trying to kill you!

After a disasterous March cruise on another line, I learned one thing - cruise because you love to cruise. There is no real customer service in this industry. If you have a wonderful cruise, it is never because of customer service.

That being said, we continue to cruise because it has the potential to be the perfect vacation - and rarely lets us down! We have had a bad cruise - and lousy customer service but - when it is good - it is VERY good!!

[Pam in CA]

Thanks for the heads-up but you were aware of the final payment date. Most, if not all, cruisers are aware of the penalty dates, one of the reasons we get insurance. It sounds like you need a new TA who will explain the basics of cruising a bit better to you. I also strongly recommend reading all of the documentation. Penalty dates aren't "fine print" but are printed to be obvious. It's not just HAL -- every cruiseline has similar penalty dates and are clear about them. It's not that they don't "care" about you but rather that you have the option of getting insurance for just this eventuality. If you don't have the insurance, then that was your choice. HAL or any other cruiseline is not obligated to make an exception for you because of the choices you made. Frankly, those who do buy the insurance would and should be very upset if the cruiseline did make an exception since it undermines their purchasing insurance.

 

Enjoy your cruise.

[wolfgang36]

Yes, I was kidding about HAL trying to kill us. However, the accident was the Noordam's fault. We were witnesses to the accident and their lawyers came to talk to us. However, it was an accident and we viewed it as such. It happened at the end of the cruise and we expected nothing from them.

 

The Bears were not an accident. RCI knew and told some people before they booked. They hired extra security. We were subjected to 7 days of gay porn.

 

The insurance issue is another matter. We wanted the insurance but when we got our final invoice, it was not on there. By the time we got back, our TA said that it was too late and it would not cover the cancellation anyway. We are talking about moving ONE day.

 

We love cruising. I happen to work for a company that teaches customer service and service recovery. That is why I am so baffled by the way this business treats their loyal customers. It costs much less to keep a customer than to get a new one.

[cnvh]

Am I understanding this correctly-- you inadvertently got booked on RCL with a "bears" group-- i.e., hairy gay men? And it was a "horrible experience"?!

 

Wow, to each their own I guess... I would bet this would have been a fabulously fun cruise to be on; hubby and I would have had a blast. Those guys know how to have a great time!

[legalslave]

CNVH, the events which occured on Wolfgang's RCI cruise, were not appropriate. If totally so called "Straight" people were doing what happened on that cruise, it would have been completely inappropriate. There are activities of a personal nature, that should remain behind closed doors and not on deck in pool areas or public lounges. I have many gay friends and I have gay relatives. I spoke with some of them regarding this particular RCI cruise. Even they said they would never be on a cruise ship if they knew this group would be on it. So you and hubby are into publicly displaying porn! The Bears have a website you can go to and find out when their future cruises are and probably book one.

 

Diane

[hammybee]

We love cruising. I happen to work for a company that teaches customer service and service recovery. That is why I am so baffled by the way this business treats their loyal customers. It costs much less to keep a customer than to get a new one.

 

You know, I think cruising may be an exception to this rule. The travel industry, primarily airlines and to some extent cruising, is a numbers game.

The business is so darn competitive that a few dollars here and there adds up to the difference between profit and loss. To grant you your wish to change cruises might mean they have to sell your cabin at a loss to get it filled. In otherwords, they have to go out of pocket to make you happy. Does this sound fair?

 

I can only imagine the thousands of letters, emails and calls each cruise line gets, asking that an exception be made or for some type of compensation because the passenger missed a sunset or a whale belching. To wade through all of this and isolate those instances where a little compassion might make a difference has got to be an overwhelming tasks. And if they do it for one, it increases the likelihood they need to do it for more. Exactly how does one run a business of exceptions and remain competitive on price?

 

If you wanted to change your flight arrangements, the air carrier is going to charge you $100 and the difference in cost between the two flights. Most of us know this going in. That cruise lines have a deadline and hold to it is necessary to their survival.

[bruce-r]

Maybe some people should stick to land based vacations.

[wolfgang36]

Thanks, legalslave. I really did not want to go over the Bear Voyage again. I could not have said it better. It was seven days of in-your-face explicit sexual behavior between huge hairy men. Groups don't offend me. Bad behavior does.

 

I also know that this is big business. We were going to have to pay more to move one day because the deal we got was not offered on the new sailing. I would have paid $100 gladly, but $900 is ridiculous.

 

We have cruised for 15 years and have never had problems like this. I think the industry has gotten so big that they are losing their customer focus. And do not worry, they are making plenty of money.

[hammybee]

As I understand it, there are several different bears groups and, from time to time, all book group cruises on several cruise lines.

 

I am thinking the dynamics of each group, any group, cruise depends much on the dynamics between the people that happened to book that group cruise and for this reason would not assume that all bears are the same.

 

Groups usually advertize on the internet and it's relatively easy to check your cruise, in advance, to determine which groups might be on your intended cruise. If there is a group that you might not enjoy sailing with, it's your choice to do so, or not.

 

I think it not practical and potentially in violation of federal law for a cruise line to alert its passengers of any group booking. Bears, bell ringers, funeral directors, quilters, religious affiliations, corporations, dancers, singers, writers, doctors and poker palyers and so on, all have the right to cruise and they all do so, especially on middle market cruise lines.

[wolfgang36]

You are absolutely right, everyone has the right to cruise. It is the most glorious vacation of all. However, I have the right to feel comfortable and safe when I cruise. Legal or not, RCI told some people about the porn group being on board when they booked. We wish they had told us. We would simply have booked another week and all would have been happy.

 

My purpose of this post is not to argue that fact. My purpose was to alert folks not to do what I did. I take responsibility for my problem with HAL. Again, read everything, don't get in a hurry and don't expect them to be sympathetic to your predicament. You are a mere dollar sign to them.

[legalslave]

Hammybee, that is a very good point. When any large group books a cruise, it can inconvenience other cruisers who are not a part of that group. Bruce-R mentioned some people should stick with land based vacations. Good point there also. If you are staying at a resort or hotel and there is a convention or large group, it generally does not effect how you get around the resort or hotel. On a cruise ship, it is very different.

 

I have only been on 1 cruise that had a large group booked. They were very nice people. The only problem is many of their functions were in a main lounge, in the center of the ship, on the old Westerdam. Other passengers were not allowed to pass through this lounge during their private activities. Hence, if you wanted to get to the other end of the ship, you had to go up or down to another deck, walk to the other end of the deck and then go up or down a deck to get to the other end of the deck you were originally on.

 

You are correct that it is wise to check with the cruise line to see if there is a large group booked when you are planning a cruise. Make sure to check before final payment is due. Some lounges may not be available to you if there is a group booked. If this would lessen the enjoyment of your cruise, you will have time to cancel and book another date or ship. You are also correct in mentioning not all Bears are the same as not all quilters, bell ringers, etc are not the same!

Diane

[TMJplus1]

Groups usually advertize on the internet and it's relatively easy to check your cruise, in advance, to determine which groups might be on your intended cruise. If there is a group that you might not enjoy sailing with, it's your choice to do so, or not.

Don't want to take this OT, but is there a place online where such info is listed? After years of our kids begging us to take them on a cruise, we finally just booked one for later this year - I'm no prude but I would be extremely uncomfortable (if not downright horrified) if these alleged porn-like type activities were going on during our cruise! I know the chances are remote, but still it would be prudent to check if you know where to find the info. Thanks.

[cnvh]

So you and hubby are into publicly displaying porn! The Bears have a website you can go to and find out when their future cruises are and probably book one.

 

Well my goodness, what a nice job of putting words into my mouth!!

 

I have no idea EXACTLY what happened on your cruise, but I DO know that "being offended" is completely relative... There are lots of supposedly LGBT-friendly heteros out there who would be horrified at the sight of two men kissing in public. What you and I define as "porn" are likely two very different things-- am I saying that we need to agree on that definition? Of course not... but unless they pressured you to join in or there were bodily fluids flying everywhere in the public areas, they had every right to be there and do their thing as you did.

 

I'm sorry you didn't have a good time on that cruise; best of luck for your future sailings.

[spongerob]

I'm starting to wonder if the reason there is no "customer service" is because customers are calling in with complaints like this one. It sounds like the OP is an experienced cruiser and should be familiar with the payment deadlines and penalties. How does bad luck or bad planning on the part of a passenger turn into a complaint when HAL is doing nothing more than sticking to policies that apply equally to all passengers?

[jhannah]

Good question, Rob!

[hammybee]

Don't want to take this OT, but is there a place online where such info is listed? After years of our kids begging us to take them on a cruise, we finally just booked one for later this year - I'm no prude but I would be extremely uncomfortable (if not downright horrified) if these alleged porn-like type activities were going on during our cruise! I know the chances are remote, but still it would be prudent to check if you know where to find the info. Thanks.

 

Curious J,

Google the cruise date/cruise line and/or ship name and you will likely see what groups are advetizing. If you are inclined to book very early, do this before final payment date so that if there is a group you prefer not to sail with, you can change the cruise. Your T/A may or may not charge you for this accommodation.

[wolfgang36]

I was not "complaining" to HAL. I was simply asking to move my cruise by one day and did not realize that I had moved within the 76 day penalty phase. The cruise seemed quite a way off when we booked it. We were out of town and I did not have my cruise brochure on me! My fault!

 

From my experience with RCI, cruise lines only enforce the rules they choose to. They did nothing to stop the pornographic behavior of the Bears although their rules state that you cannot behave in this manner.

 

And cnvh, since you brought it up, there were bodily fluids flying everywhere in public. You were joking but I am not. The Bears admitted on these boards to "pleasuring themselves in public places until they were caught and the area was closed." We learned later that that was the sauna in the spa. Another witnessed oral sex at the solarium in broad daylight. Pleasant. People need to know that that is a possibility when they cruise. We had tried to talk a nice looking male friend who had never cruised into going with us on that cruise. I would have been so embarrassed! He would have been harassed unmercifully. My husband was told to "suck it bitch" by one of them.

 

I am sure that there were some nice Bears in the bunch but they should seek another group to join. Some of them are spoiling it for all.

 

But this is not about the Bears. We cannot wait to cruise with HAL!

[iceman93]

I can actually understand why HAL would not accommodate your seemingly simple request to change one day and move to a different ship. You say that you got a special deal for the booking you're on, but that the special is not available for the other cruise. What a loophole it would be if everyone could book the cheapest cruise they could find that had roughly the itinerary they wanted, then change later for a more expensive option!

 

I can think of no business at all that would allow a change like that. Airlines will let you change flights for $100 PLUS any difference in fare. If you buy a super-discount seat and then want to change but the fare sale is over, tough luck. You can't buy a 2006 Corolla on closeout and then expect a little later to step up to a 2007 Avalon (or even another Corolla) for free.

[wolfgang36]

We knew that we would have to pay more on the other sailing and were willing. Not $900 more, though! The airlines don't charge that much.

[hammybee]

Oh wolfgang,

 

I had no idea of some of the details of your last cruise, with RCl, and I can see that you realize that not all bears, are bad bears.

 

I do not easily get offended, but come on now, this behavior was intended to offend.

 

Oh how I wish I had been on the cruise with you. If if I had, I would have pix/video of it all and made certain the captain had the opportunity to see them, chop-chop. I cannot imagine a captain who, when confronted with pix or video, would not have put offensive bears off, at the next port. I would have bought the confetti for that sail-a-way.

 

Looking back, I can now see that you were only venting and looking for a sympathetic ear. I am sorry if I did not give you what you needed, at the time. I sincerely hope your next cruise exceeds your expectations. Please come back and share your impressons with us.

[wolfgang36]

Thanks, Hammybee. Apparently you did not read the thread about the Bear Voyage on October 15. and yes, there are lots of pictures and video. But you know who has the best video? The RCI security cameras. This thing is not over. There were hundreds of very upset pax. Imagine having children with you. The Bears posted nude photos of themselves on the outside of their cabin doors. Kids saw them.

 

The captain had his head in the sand. He usually holds a session for the pax in the theater to answer questions about the ship but he cancelled it. Did not want to hear!

 

The solarium--the only adult pool on this ship--was closed to this group with guards posted at the entrances. Extra security that RCI had hired from Port Canaveral.

 

The Bears were sponsored by the Bear Film company. Check out that web site to get an idea of what we were dealing with. Make sure there are no children nearby when you look at that site. RCI's response to us was that they cannot discriminate. We did not ask that they discriminate, just enforce their own rules of behavior.

 

So here we are with HAL. We love to cruise and cannot wait! We're going to "get out there" on HAL! Just wish we could have travelled with our friends from another city that we see a couple times a year. That would make it perfect!

[Islandbuoy]

I just looked at my ticket for upcoming Jan 21 CCL cruise.

11+ pages of "contract" all written by CCL lawyers.

 

Can anyone tell me that they have read ( & understood) all this??

 

Maybe if they highlighted things like :

Cancellation policy and put things "we have a lien on your bags" somewhere else. They might have less "grumbling".

[wolfgang36]

This is what I am talking about. Their contracts are much like a gym contract. Who benefits? Why does a gym need a contract? If you don't go to the gym, you do not benefit. Who do these contracts protect? The cruise line only.