I am beginning to have my doubts on the kid friendliness

[NapTown Jim]

Also, I would advise the OP that the people on these boards are certainly not representative of all HAL passengers. In fact, we represent a very, very small minority.

 

While I don't think HAL is the best line for kids (in general), they are actively marketing to families with kids and therefore if a family chooses to sail HAL, then the little ones are welcomed with open arms. If any individual passenger gives you any crap about your kids playing in the pools or perhaps yelling a bit, tell them to go pound sand. Your kids have as much right to be there as they do. Of course, I am assuming your kids are reasonably well-behaved ... but assuming that, if you want to sail HAL, then by all means bring the kids.

 

As far as the kids club not being able to handle a large number of children ... I think they "staff up" when they know a sailing is going to have a larger number of children onboard.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Good comments. My 40th birthday will be in 2009 and I would very much like to celebrate it on HAL with my family. The wife & I don't have any, nor will we probably ever have kids, but my sister does. By that time my nephew will be 5 and my niece will be 3 and I really hope they can come. I'm certain they will have a grand time. Weather or not they come of course, is more up to my sister than any opinion that would be expressed here. ;)

[OceanLiner]

There are plenty of passengers on board who are not just kid unfriendly, but people unfriendly in general. These people will complain about any situation or person, and the kids are an easy target.

 

We have found HAL to be very kid friendly, and frankly they are more family friendly than Disney.

 

On Disney you will find that the kids can literally be gone from 8am until midnight, without any family contact. On HAL the kids programs are of limited duration and they must be with their families during dinner. Also, there are wonderful areas on HAL where families can spend time together building puzzles and playing board games.

 

On our last 10 night cruise aboard the Volendam there was a full kids club staff, but only about 25 kids on board. Or kids had nearly one on one staff ratios the entire time and they had a great time.

[junglejane]

I mostly post on the Princess board but I read the HAL and Celebrity boards frequently. Our kids are now 6 and 10 and about to go on their third cruise. We have not yet cruised on HAL with our kids -- our only HAL cruise was for our honeymoon. But we seriously considered the Oosterdam for our upcoming Mexican Riviera cruise and mainly picked Princess based on price. I'm actively looking at HAL for our next cruise.

 

It seems to me that some of the more negative posters who warn families away from HAL are engaged in wishful thinking. They're wishing the kids would go away. They won't. Not all parents want to cruise on Disney, Carnival and RCCL. We take our kids to places like Disneyland and Knotts Berry Farm. We have access to ice skating rinks and rock climbing walls at home. When we go on a cruise, we want to experience a cruise vacation, not a mini-theme park.

 

Most importantly, our vacation plans don't revolve 100% around maximizing the fun for our kids. That would teach them "it's all about me" which is not the message we want to send. We want to enjoy the somewhat more refined and upscale atmosphere of cruise lines like Princess, HAL and Celebrity. Plus, going on a cruise vacation teaches our kids valuable lessons about how to conduct themselves in a fine dining restaurant and other public venues. Many kids don't know how to behave in those situations precisely because they are rarely exposed to them. Of course parents have to supervise and be responsible. Wish us luck, don't wish us away.

--Junglejane

[babyher]

LOL - you took the words right out of my mouth. That sums up my daughter in a nut shell!!

 

 

I absolutely agree

 

 

What kid today isn't spoiled just a little? What parent doesn't want their child to have better than they did? Thats what you work and save and sacrifice for.

 

Its when you make these kids into these "I'm an entitled little God's gift" brats that you are asking for trouble.

[sab490]

Junglejane -

 

I really certainly would not have any problem at all with families like yours on a cruise. Most of the problems I have seen involve kids in the 12-15 age range whose parents apparently think they are old enough to entertain themselves in appropriate ways without supervision (or else don't care.) I certainly think you are doing the right thing in teaching your kids how to conduct themselves. I only wish more parents took your approach. If they did, we probably would not be having this discussion.

[kakalina]

I absolutely agree

 

 

What kid today isn't spoiled just a little? What parent doesn't want their child to have better than they did? Thats what you work and save and sacrifice for.

 

Its when you make these kids into these "I'm an entitled little God's gift" brats that you are asking for trouble.

 

 

Babyher: Where have you been? Good to hear from you again.

[hammybee]

Its when you make these kids into these "I'm an entitled little God's gift" brats that you are asking for trouble.

 

 

I read somewhere recently that the entire parenting style of instilling endless self esteem in children is backfiring and creating a sense of entitlement. Instead, the authors recommended instilling self control, something that will get them through the rest of their life.

[Got2goaway]

We were on the 2/17 Noordam sailing with 300 children on board. Our DD, who is 5, absolutely loved Club HAL. The only negative comment that she consistently had was how "squished" she felt while in the 3-7 Room. Our DS, who is 8, did not feel comfortable staying with the 3-7 group primarily because there seemed to be many more 3-5yo on this sailing as opposed to ages 6 & 7. We decided to try the 8-12 group and were told right from the start that although they knew that this sailing had so many children, their curriculum was written for, at most, a group of 30. We were not thrilled with the 8-12 counselors that we met. They were not approachable. Our son did not feel comfortable with any of the counselors, which is very much outside of his character. He is quite charismatic and socialable. We were very direct with the counselors as well as with our DS that he was not to leave Club HAL. On the 1st full day at sea, we allowed our son to participate in an activity that was slated for 1 hour. We told him that we would pick him after that activity as the infamous ship wide scavenger hunt was scheduled next. We arrived only to find a few counselors in a barren room. They stated that the activity ended early and that all the children HAD to partake in the scavenger hunt. To my dismay I searched the halls for my son. I can assure you, unfortunately, that it was not difficult to find the children because the counselors team them up in groups of 5 or 6. Can you only imagine a group of 8 or 9yo who have never experienced this type of freedom??? Some of the children were behaving "wildly". My poor son had the "deer in the headlights" look. All he could state when I found him was that he was made to leave and that the kids would not listen to him and continued to act up. He was so happy to see me and was almost in tears. Needless to say, we spoke to the counselors and reiterated that we did not want him to leave Club HAL without us. We only utilized Club HAL approximately 5 hours during our 11 day cruise. After the incident, our son was allowed to stay in the room (there was always a counselor in the room) even if he had to sign himself out for whatever reason. The only downside is that they did not really push him to partake in the activities. He spent the majority of the Club HAL time playing the PS2 (much to his delight, BTW, as we do not condone gaming at home).

 

There was a huge difference, in our experience, between the 2 groups. I attribute it primarily to the counselors that were on this sailing.

 

Our family felt very welcomed during this cruise. The staff were more than generous in offering us assistance. The dining room waitstaff even cut our children's steak on a few occassions, just because they wanted to. On the Family Pool "contamination" day, the CD approached my DH, as we were patiently waiting by the pool (sitting at a table). He stated that we were welcome to utilize the aft pool while waiting for the mid-ship pool to be cleaned. There were quite a few children already in the aft pool, some well-behaved, some not so much. We could tell by the looks that many fellow cruising adults were not pleased to see the children.

 

Overall, this is a multi-generational friendly ship and line with amazing staff. You will always find unruly adults and mis-guided children no matter where you go. We choose not to let it affect us. We are fortunate enough to show our children places and experiences that we could only dream of as children ourselves. They understand that and are respectful of it.

 

Enjoy your upcoming cruise - just be clear with staff what your expectations are. Everything will work out fine.

[babyher]

Babyher: Where have you been? Good to hear from you again.

 

Why thank you :)

 

DW and I have been busy busy doing some early spring cleaning around the house . We are planning major home renovations once the weather gets nicer so we are kind of doing a massive "out with the old junk to make room for the new junk" *LOL*

 

Fun Fun Fun :)

 

We have a cruise planned for October (Shhhhhhh its on another line :))

and it cannot come fast enough

[babyher]

I read somewhere recently that the entire parenting style of instilling endless self esteem in children is backfiring and creating a sense of entitlement. Instead, the authors recommended instilling self control, something that will get them through the rest of their life.

 

 

My Dad used to tell us when we were growing up

 

"No one is better than you, but you aren't better than anyone else"

 

When I was younger it didn't make a lot of sense to me , but as I got older I got it.

 

In other words don't ever let anyone make you feel less of a person than what you are for any reason. By the same token, don't you ever make another person feel that way.

 

Treat everyone you meet as if they are your potential new best friend , unless they do or say something to make you feel otherwise.

 

I praise my kids (actually niece and nephews but they have lived with me practically since birth, so I claim them as mine :)) to the skies when they really do something great. Good grades , a job well done. Always there to lend an ear or a shoulder when they are hurting or just want to talk. And have a size 11 and a half extra wide boot to go accross their butts when they are out of line *LOL* well figuratively.

 

They really are good kids. they can be three pains in my %$& , but which kids can't be at some point.

[kryos]

We are cruising next year on the Noordam due to their "family friendly" advertising. I never even considered HAL until I saw those ads....

So- if people want a cruise line without kids onboard, I suggest cruising off off season- otherwise you're stuck with us :)

And I agree with you 100%. HAL is marketing their ships to families, and for those of us who would prefer a child-free cruise, our issue is with HAL, not with the families who are attracted by that advertising.

 

Therefore, for those of us who prefer child-free cruises, it becomes incumbant upon us to either seek out another line that doesn't actively solicit the family market, or choose HAL sailings at times when it is unlikely there will be many kids onboard. But, by the same token, if I happen to get unlucky and find myself on a HAL ship with 100+ children, then I have to deal with that. I can only hope the children are with conscientious parents who will supervise them properly, though I don't necessarily think "proper supervision" means kids will never run around, play, yell, laugh or cry. Those sorts of behaviors are part of being a child and I think anyone who feels that children should be seen and not heard on their cruise is setting themselves up for a very disappointing cruise experience.

 

Do I wish HAL were child-free? You bet. I don't have kids myself and am frequently uncomfortable having lots of kids around me.

 

But do I think families should stay away so that I can more enjoy my cruises? No, not if HAL is actively soliciting them and adding ammenities to encourage them to sail with their little ones.

 

So, since I don't want to step up to a luxury line and pay those prices, it now becomes my problem ... not those families' problems ... to find a way to make HAL fit to me. That's why I carefully select cruises to maximize the chances I will have a child-free one.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[hammybee]

So, since I don't want to step up to a luxury line and pay those prices, it now becomes my problem ... not those families' problems ... to find a way to make HAL fit to me. That's why I carefully select cruises to maximize the chances I will have a child-free one. Blue skies ...--rita

 

Rita, this says it all.

 

I think some pax, and maybe even HAL,are surprised at how popular the Noordam sails have been, with families, this winter. Given the proxcimity to the entire east coast and no need to fly in, made the Noordam a winner, despite it being a ten day sail.

 

HAL, like all other mass marketed cruise lines, NEEDS family business to SURVIVE. We have mid April- May, late August-holiday, early January-President's Day Week and all the longer sails to choose from, if we want to avoid large numbers of children. Or we up the ante, and sail a true luxury cruise line. It really is that simple.

[kryos]

HAL, like all other mass marketed cruise lines, NEEDS family business to SURVIVE. We have mid April- May, late August-holiday, early January-President's Day Week and all the longer sails to choose from, if we want to avoid large numbers of children. Or we up the ante, and sail a true luxury cruise line. It really is that simple.

Exactly, and I really don't find avoiding the kids to be that big a problem. Except for the one cruise where I was inexperienced and stupid ... booking a b2b on the Zuiderdam spanning the last week in August and the first week in September ... I have never had a problem sailing with a very, very small number of kids who were absolutely no trouble at all. And, even on that Zuiderdam cruise ... the good Lord must have been watching out for me because the kids, while large in number, were reasonably well-behaved. There was just a whole lot of them ... way more than for my comfort zone. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[hammybee]

HAL has been marketing itself to families for a few decades, which is how I first discovered HAL. There is nothing new here other than more families are seeing the value in family sails, across the board, and more ships are departing from hometown ports than ever before.

 

Rita, you and I have talked about how we don't even remember Spring Breaks , let alone anyone taking off on a 7-10 day vacation, let alone something as fabulous as a cruise. Most of us were darn lucky to hit the Delaware/Jersey shore or Wisconsin Dells for a week during the summer, and did so on a moderate scale. There is more disposable family income, credit and other resources available today that enables families to take nice vacations, oftentimes several a year. And cruising remains one of the better valued vacations, thus its appeal to all of us.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

...... There is more disposable family income, credit and other resources available today that enables families to take nice vacations, oftentimes several a year. And cruising remains one of the better valued vacations, thus its appeal to all of us.

 

 

Yes, and another interesting factor is that more and more parents are deferring having children until they are in their thirties and have established themselves financially. Many of these so-called "young" families might have young children, but the parents themselves are part of the tail-end of the baby boomer era.

 

Karin

[hammybee]

Yes, and another interesting factor is that more and more parents are deferring having children until they are in their thirties and have established themselves financially. Many of these so-called "young" families might have young children, but the parents themselves are part of the tail-end of the baby boomer era.

 

Karin

 

Of course you are right and many families are not having as many children as they used to in the 50's- 60's. I did not have my DD till I was 35. Who knew,

I was a trail blazer?

[SmokinActuary]

We are a case in point. I am 43, my wife is 45 and my daughter is 9 today.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

We are a case in point. I am 43, my wife is 45 and my daughter is 9 today.

 

Same here, although our oldest is 17, our youngest is 8, and we are mid to late forties. We just didn't have the financial resources for cruising before last year, and we tended to take most of our vacations within driving distance. Now we can afford to cruise, and we're not alone. The cruise lines know this, which is why they have come a-courtin' us families. We represent a substantial chunk of revenue to them, as Hammybee pointed out. In the last nine months alone, our family has fattened the coffers of HAL by many thousands of dollars.......:eek:

 

BTW, Happy Birthday to your daughter:)

 

Karin

[SmokinActuary]

I will do that!

 

HAL should be good for us. My daughter is used to things that are a little more sophisticated so she will do just fine.

[familymom]

This is a portion of a review I wrote just after we returned from the 2/17 Noordam cruise but didn't post as I didn't want the hassle. However after all that has been said recently, I've decided to post it.

 

We cruised as a family with three boys ages 15, 11 and 7

 

Attitude towards children – while HAL is trying to attract families and there were many aboard on this President’s Week cruise. HAL’s inexperience showed in many subtle ways. Entertainment was very adult focused (with the exception of the Magician which really wasn’t advertised as PG so we weren’t sure if we should bring the kids) and most all the activities on board were adult focused too. We saw very few, if any, family oriented activities where the whole family could participate. Our dining room team, while providing excellent service, never bothered to learn the boys’ names and referred to them as the “boys” (as in Good evening Mr and Mrs X and boys). They never took the time to interact with the boys the way our waiter did on Radiance last year (as a result the boys liked the Radiance waiter better). In addition, our waiter last yr routinely cut my youngest son’s meat at dinner which was wonderful as my food didn’t get cold while I cut his meat and we never saw this on HAL. While we often saw the staff in the Lido carrying trays for the older passengers, only once did one of them carry a tray for my 7 year old who struggled at every meal to carry the heavy tray. And as I posted in Part I, we had trouble at check-in with an inexperienced check-in clerk who didn’t seem to know how to process the children. The final telling sign was the comment form at the end which asked for comments on many aspects of the ship but didn’t have a line for me to comment on Club HAL (which was much more important to me than say, the photo gallery!). I say this not to complain but only to offer suggestions for improvement as I know HAL sometimes reads this website.

 

It’s also important to remember that children pay the same fare as adults and therefore should receive similar service. Club HAL was, however, wonderful and my boys preferred to spend time there.

 

My last point relates to the attitude of the other passengers towards children. While we received a number of positive comments about our children from fellow passengers and the Club HAL staff, we also encountered a number of older passengers who were almost openly hostile to the boys being on board. This attitude is reflected by some postings on this board. In general we thought the children on board were well behaved (with a few minor exceptions but I also saw adults who weren’t well behaved too). Our oldest son (at 15) was insulted at the lifeboat drill and our two younger got disapproving glances in elevators and were, on occasion, pushed aside when exiting the elevator or pushed in crowded places as if they shouldn’t be there. And one older man, rudely asked my 7 yr why he wasn’t’ in school and then told him he should be there.

[caviargal]

I sell HAL and the price structure for kids is most definitely less than for adults, unless they are the second person in a cabin.

 

As far as children deserving to receive "similar" service, I cannot understand the comment. My service needs and expectations are not the same as a childs. Truly, a waitpersons job is demanding enough but expecting them to cut meat is a bit extreme, at least to my way of thinking.

[hammybee]

Familymom:

If you read my posts, I am pro family cruising. Having said this, I think you might be a little bit unreasonable in your expectations of any cruise line.

 

Cutting children's meat and carrying children's trays is the reposnsibility of parents. If you experienced better service on RCL, you were very fortunate because this is not SOP.

 

In all my cruises, in all the years, on most mass marketed cruise lines, no one has ever called me by name. I am Mrs. Roman, my DH's first name or when traveling with just my DD, I am mama.

 

3rd and 4th pax pay a reduced rate and if those 3rd and 4th pax are 18 or younger they pay a child's rate, a fraction of adult first/ second pax rate. Given you have 3 children, I suspect you may have opted for a second cabin in which case the first 2 pax would be charged as adults in most instances, on most cruise lines.

 

I am happy that the Club Hal was a good experience. I wonder why they did not have anything about this on the comment card. This seems goofy on HAL's part.

 

As it relates to pax attitudes, I think many pax were surprised to have a large number of children on this cruise and this probably became more obvious with each passing day. Having said this, I have seen more unreasonable behavior from adults than I have children, on any cruise.

 

None of us can control how other people react or behave. The only thing we can control is ourselves, which includes our reaction to their reaction.

 

It's clear you have found the cruise line that meets your family's needs and it's not HAL. That's OK. The best thing about cruising is that we all have choices.

[dreamcatcher]

Last spring break (3/06) we sailed one of the massive RCL ships (Mariner) with my daughters, then ages 4 and 5. We travelled with my parents, sister and her kids, ages 12 and 17. The rock climbing, ice skating, etc. was great for her kids but all of those "kid- and family-friendly" features were nothing my girls could (or wanted) to participate in. They were just too little.

 

I took my kids to the kids club one night for one hour and when my dh and I picked them up, they ran to us sobbing hysterically (and continued to cry all the way to our cabin). When we finally discovered what happened, they were told that they had to wash their hands in toilet water. They were mortified and scared to death...they never went back to the kids club. Of course, we addressed this with management. But it didn't matter, they were soured, never wanted to go back to the kids club, and since they couldn't participate fully in any of the big kids activities on board, it was very limiting for them, even on a ship that size.

 

We specifically chose a smaller cruise line like HAL (my dh and I had previously cruised with HAL) because my girls are too young to participate in those larger ship activities.

 

We're hoping Club HAL will be a little gentler on the little kids and more sensitive to their ages (plus the fact that the siblings can stay together regardless of age is a huge plus -- RCL split based on age, even if siblings wanted to be together. I saw some really sad kids who were separated from their siblings).

 

My point is that, other than Disney (which we can't afford), the cruiselines that are considered 'family friendly' aren't really geared toward Every age child. A cruiseline employee who tells a four year old, who believes everything that grown ups say, that she has to wash her hands in toilet water is not gearing that experience to a four year old.

 

I suppose if an adults-only experience is what people are looking for (and believe me, there are times when I would LOVE that :), then an all-inclusive adults only resort vacation is the way to go.

 

I personally love having my girls with me; they love activities like napkin folding, dance lessons, getting all dressed up. They've been eating in restaurants since they were infants, so for the most part, they know how to behave. The worst problem we had last year (other than the kids club nightmare) was that they would fall asleep usually by the second course of their dinner in the dining room (early seating!)

 

And I will say that, on the occasions when my kids as toddlers have had public meltdowns, I can promise you, I was more freaked out than anyone who was observing.

 

We're sailing on the 3/18 Westerdam sailing so if anyone is sailing with their little princesses, come and find us at Club HAL (crossing fingers.) :)

 

JoAnne, Tom, Cara and Brooke

[Copper10-8]

Dreamcatcher; have a great cruise on Westerdam with your family!!

[Jade13]

Hi,

 

I can't wait to hear more about the Westerdam..

 

Regarding the comment about waiters not cutting children's meat, well I thought that was the parents responsibility. We eat out a lot with my sister and here young children as well as cousin with young children and I have never (ever) been in a restaurant where the wait staff offers to cut meat...

 

The childrens rates on Hal are really cheap, a fraction of the adult assuming they are the 3rd and 4th pax in the cabin and I also learned those prices stay the same whether they are in a inside cabin or Penthouse.

 

The staff member that told the child they would have their hands washed with toilet water, well he should have been reported as having easily scared the child. Did you find out why he said that? Not an excurse but were they screaming, etc? It sounds like he couldn't control them or other children.

 

I had a stepchild grow up in my home and I have never seen her cry, a very tough child. She would never have believed that staff member if he had threatened her..would have said "Yeah, go tell my Dad about the toilet water..." :)