Choking - Caribbean Princess

[nrdsb4]

In my Oregon restaurant we are trained and are at the ready for any emergency. When you work around people eating, the likelihood that eventually someone will need emergency care is pretty high. I am glad that someone took some responsibility to help you out.

I am glad now to be forewarned that if something happens to me or my husband there will be no help from the staff. By the way, the training is a minimal amount of to time to be able to save someone's life. Kris

 

I think that's a good policy. At my restaurant, we had none of that, but as I said before, that was a long time ago, and it may well be a requirement in many states now.

[Casshew]

grammyandpoppy, thank goodness you're okay, what a frightening ordeal you went through. Everyday is like a gift after something like that happens, a new lease on life. :)

[RuthlessBoss]

I was always taught that you don't interfere with choking as long as the person is coughing and breathing, let the individual clear it. To jump in and pound someone on the back, as so many people think they should do is the worst thing to do. That can startle the person to inhaling whatever is lodged in the throat. Heimlich is to be reserved for full blockage of the throat.

[julia]

To the OP:

 

Thank goodness you came through this ordeal! You are very fortunate that someone stepped in and took charge of a very scary situation.

 

To jlp20:

 

Your reply was neither warranted or appreciated by those people who value Cruise Critic... it was both petty and unfounded.

[daveco58]

I first learned to do the Heimlich in 1975, when I went to work as a cook in a restaurant, here in California. It has been required learning for EVERYONE in the food service industry, (along with hygeine and safe food handling, etc), whether waitress, busboy, cashier whatever for the last 10 years or so, here. I am astonished that anyone working on a cruise ship DOESNT know how to recognize a choking patron, and perform a Heimlich manuever.

[jbpinkie]

It's funny, we too are just off the CB today. We met a family from Utah and tended to see one another each evening. On one of the last nights of the cruise his dad began to choke in the dinning room. He was singing the praises of his diningroom waiter, who quickly came to the aid of his dad using the heimlich maneuver (sp?). So I guess there are some who will and some who will not help. Our friends were very thankful for the assistance.

[grammyandpoppy]

....A piece of filet mignon became lodged in my throat....I was clutching my throat, could not talk and was feeling faint when a policeman and fellow passenger came to my aid....It is now Princess' policy for crew members not to come to the aid of someone choking....QUOTE]

 

 

OK, I’ll bite the bullet and ask why you expect the staff of Princess to watch you personally 24/7, train the staff for any and all emergency situations and you yourself not be held responsible for your own actions.

 

YOU cut your meat, YOU choose the size of the bite and YOU made the mistake. Instead of making a post about being conscious of what you shove in your mouth because Princess’ waiters are not trained in the sub routines of CPR, you point fingers at everyone else.

 

Thank you for letting us know that ship staff who make about $10 a week have not been trained in how to be a “first responder”, but somehow I knew this already.

 

Despite what you may think, Princess is a business. Their job is to make money for the shareholders. Because they have been sued in the past by other pax, this policy was put in place.

 

Ps

If one of your servers, who was not trained, had come to your aid, odds show that the pax who had the training would have sat there for another minute or two. The staff themselves did what they should have done, stay out of the way.

 

I read your post and could not believe my eyes. I was not asking for Princess to watch me 24/7 nor was I asking that the entire crew be trained to be a first responder. I merely suggested that someone in each dining venue be familiar and know how to do the Heimlich.

 

I said a piece of filet mignon got stuck in my throat - I did not say a Momma Cass size piece of meat. Even though I ordered my filet medium rare it was dry. To assume I put this enormous piece of meat in my mouth and chose to choke borders on insanity. I am a woman in my 60's who has never before experienced food lodged in her throat. I suppose you think that the 3,000 + persons who die each year because the Heimlich maneuver was not done chose their own fate.

 

Your quote makes me think you are a assine, mean spirited Princess stockholder who is probably one lonely guy.

 

Thanks to all the kind posters who wished me well and could understand my point.

[jlp20]

jlp20 you certainly are a fairly lose with the lips when you don't understand all of the workings of a human body...

 

Maybe you and others should read the OP again. The entire post is a complaint against Princess crew for not coming to her aide. We have learned that due to a past experience, the crew has now been given a new edict. Her experience should teach us all what the policy is onboard.

 

Captain H, despite your chocking experience, no one else on this earth was the cause in your incident ether. Total accident? If not, there can only be one person reasponsible.

 

For some reason people think this board is some type of support group for the emotionally impaired. A board is to share information and experiences on cruising. If you need a pat on the back or a hug, try a friend instead of a computer.

 

At no point have I posted anything negative about the OP or any other poster. It is called opinion

[Dan Tanna]

I ‘m too glad you came through this. It’s nice to know that there are people that will help their fellow man/woman in time of need. I am shocked as well that the staff just stood and watched. I wonder if they have those Heimlich posters as most restaurants do hanging in the kitchen area. As far of the concern of breaking a rib, I received some CPR training some years back. Some of the instruction was that if you ever had to do chest compressions that you may feel bones cracking. Makes you wonder as the OP asked if the staff would perform cpr.

I’m glad you are ok.

[grammyandpoppy]

I was always taught that you don't interfere with choking as long as the person is coughing and breathing, let the individual clear it. To jump in and pound someone on the back, as so many people think they should do is the worst thing to do. That can startle the person to inhaling whatever is lodged in the throat. Heimlich is to be reserved for full blockage of the throat.

 

In trying to bring up the meat by coughing I did fully block my throat. No air in and no air out - unable to talk or cough.

[surfklutz]

Wow - this is a surprise - I would think it would be standard practice to teach anyone in the food industry about the Heimlich maneuver. I was choking at Wendy's several years ago - and one of the 18 year olds came to my aid and did the maneuver. We got talking - and apparently at that time, everyone who worked for Wendy's had to know - and use if necessary - the heimlich maneuver.

 

You would think a service industry like a cruise line would want to do no less. I wonder if it is just Princess or all lines that take such a hands off approach.

[Wishfullracer]

The curse is on!

[sanjosebarbie]

I've said this before and I've said it again...we live in a society full of ridiculous people lacking in personal responsibility who will sue over anything. I can't believe somebody would sue because their ribs were broken during the practice of a lifesaving technique, but there is no accounting for some people. To the OP, I am SO glad that you are okay, and I hope that Princess will change this policy. I also hope that all of us who would sit on a jury would recognize this kind of lawsuit for bunk and stop this kind of moronic thing from happening again.

 

I'm also glad to hear that there are some Princess employees who will help out despite a policy (if it is a policy...it's possible that the dining staff just wasn't CPR trained). I'm a teacher, so I'm trained in CPR, but if I had to use it on a student, i would almost certainly break a rib...these kids are tiny. Would that stop me? No way!

 

I don't blame Princess for their policy, but I think that they have to realize that they're going to be sued if somebody dies, too, so they may as well do the noble thing and try to save a life.

[Lynda90]

Heimlich maneuver on self

 

Information:

 

 

"If you are choking on something, you can perform the Heimlich maneuver on yourself:

1. Make a fist. Place the thumb below your rib cage and above your navel.
   
2. Grasp your fist with your other hand. Press it into your abdomen with a quick upward thrust.

You can also lean over a table edge, chair, or railing. Press your upper abdomen against the edge with a quick thrust."

http://www.healthscout.com/ency/1/001983.html

Thanks for this very valuable information. I printed in out as a "just in case."

[nrdsb4]

I've said this before and I've said it again...we live in a society full of ridiculous people lacking in personal responsibility who will sue over anything. I can't believe somebody would sue because their ribs were broken during the practice of a lifesaving technique, but there is no accounting for some people. To the OP, I am SO glad that you are okay, and I hope that Princess will change this policy. I also hope that all of us who would sit on a jury would recognize this kind of lawsuit for bunk and stop this kind of moronic thing from happening again.

 

I'm also glad to hear that there are some Princess employees who will help out despite a policy (if it is a policy...it's possible that the dining staff just wasn't CPR trained). I'm a teacher, so I'm trained in CPR, but if I had to use it on a student, i would almost certainly break a rib...these kids are tiny. Would that stop me? No way!

I don't blame Princess for their policy, but I think that they have to realize that they're going to be sued if somebody dies, too, so they may as well do the noble thing and try to save a life.

 

I was receiving a patient one time from the cath lab. The report was angioplasty and stent, patient got a little "sketchy" during the procedure, but stable now, blah, blah. Wouldn't you know that within 30 seconds of his nurse signing off, walking off and me taking over that his eyes glazed over, his monitor showed V-FIB (just about as bad as it gets), and we had to start a code. I had to start chest compressions, and as I did, CUHRAAACK! A sickening feeling went through me, but we carried on, shocked him, got him back just as his harried cardiologist raced into the room, shaken and out of breath, hair all flying every which way. He had heard the code called in my unit over the loud speaker. He said, "I had a feeling he was going to do this." Gee, thanks for giving me the heads up!:D Long story short, we did some damage but saved his life and he couldn't have been more grateful. His family would get him laughing afterwards, and he would be groaning in pain, but smiling big as day...

 

I've never forgotten that feeling. Just icky, but you gotta do what you gotta do...:)

[spongerob]

I don't care whether it's policy or not...idly standing by while someone is in obvious distress is nothing short of negligence. Most businesses and organizations here train their people in basic first aid. The Heimlich maneuver is almost as basic as it gets.

[FredS]

The comments posted about what is required for crewmembers does not mention the Heimlich, it says, if quoted correctly, Basic First Aid. Unless things have changed this does not include the Heimlich. Just as CPR is special and separate from First Aid so is the Heimlich. Granted, they are often taught together at First Aid classes, but they are not a part of Basic First Aid. Also, since the ships are not registered in the US why should they have to meet US standards? I realize they do in the way of CDC scores but deals with them in port situations. In Calif, if you are not trained in any type of medical response then don't respond as you open yourself to lawsuits for doing something you are not trained to do. Also, if you are trained but choose to not get involved there is no law that says you have to perform, you can just keep going by and there is no nexus between you and the event. Only if you choose to participate in the event to you take on responsibility for what you do and what happens after you arrive on the scene. For example, if you stop at the scene of an accident you take on a special relationship with the accident victim and can be liable for further harm, for accidents that happen due to the way you park your car, how you park your car, or where you park your car. Before I retired a part of my duties included First Aid response, short of paramedic. It has been years since I have had any refresher training, should I perform some function and somethings happens that shouldn't I can be sued and lose. And CA has more lawsuits than anywhere else; so I have read.

 

In Calif the Good Samaritan Law only applies to people who render medical aid at the scene of an injury As of March 22, 2007 a CAL Appeals Court found that the Good Samaritan Law only applies to medical emergencies.

"An immunity statute protecting persons who render “emergency care at the scene of an emergency” applies only to medical emergencies, the Court of Appeal for this district ruled yesterday." An article can be found here: http://www.metnews.com/articles/2007/conf032207.htm

another article on the case;

http://firstaid.about.com/od/medicallegal/a/07_no_good_sam.htm

[nrdsb4]

Wouldn't someone rendered unconscious and at peril of asphyxiation due to a compromised airway qualify as a "medical emergency"?

[Tarheelbelle]

"The maitre d' told me they do not train the staff to do the maneuver since one time a passenger suffered a broken rib as a result of a crew member performing the maneuver and sued Princess."

 

If the Heimlich maneuver is done correctly--i.e. if one has been trained on how to do it--it would be very rare to break a rib. It is pretty common to see broken ribs after CPR, however.

[Pia1913]

Wouldn't someone rendered unconscious and at peril of asphyxiation due to a compromised airway qualify as a "medical emergency"?

 

I Love You (colloquially) nrdsb4, whoever you are. You write well, you speak well and you make sense. I'm also quite sure you have an excellent medical background.

 

Pia

[Umbarger]

Princess is darned if they do and darned if they don't.

 

They get sued when a staff member saves a life and will also get sued if a staff member didnt save a life.

[sanjosebarbie]

Princess is darned if they do and darned if they don't.

 

They get sued when a staff member saves a life and will also get sued if a staff member didnt save a life.

 

This is so true, and exactly what I was saying about the ridiculousness of frivolous lawsuits. I think I would err on the side of saving the life, though. I do understand why people are hesitant to get involved, though, because of the possibility of being sued. How crazy. Oh well...thank heavens the OP was fine. If somebody broke my ribs doing the heimlich, I think I would be inclined to send them flowers rather than a subpoena!

[dforeigner]

I was always taught that you don't interfere with choking as long as the person is coughing and breathing, let the individual clear it. To jump in and pound someone on the back, as so many people think they should do is the worst thing to do. That can startle the person to inhaling whatever is lodged in the throat. Heimlich is to be reserved for full blockage of the throat.

 

You are correct. If someone is able to speak or cough, their airway is still open. Layman's terms: they are still able to move air through their airway. If you start performing the Heimlich maneuver when there is not a complete airway obstruction, you run the risk of doing more harm. Why, the lungs have some residual air in place and this is why the Heimlich maneuver is usually effective when presenting with a complete airway obstruction. If you perform the Heimlich maneuver and the airway is not fully obstructed, you run the risk of emptying that reserve and if the airway then becomes obstructed, the Heimlich maneuvers may be futile.

[dforeigner]

"The maitre d' told me they do not train the staff to do the maneuver since one time a passenger suffered a broken rib as a result of a crew member performing the maneuver and sued Princess."

 

If the Heimlich maneuver is done correctly--i.e. if one has been trained on how to do it--it would be very rare to break a rib. It is pretty common to see broken ribs after CPR, however.

 

Broke ribs is a term use loosely. On the elderly, when performing check compressions with proper hand placement, one will separate the sternum (attached via cartilage) from the rib cage. The one performing the chest compressions will fill an awful crunch on the first compression.

 

If the patient ends with literally a broken rib from chest compressions during CPR, it is usually do to improper hand placement.

[Colonel_Clobber]

You Sir/ Madam are making assumptions (opinions)based on personal feelings rather than facts.

 

The assumption that people possessing civilized eating habits do not tend to choke on Flinstones-sized pieces of meat?

 

Guilty.