Digital Camera vs DSLR Camera

[CALMOM]

It sounds like you have pretty much worked it out. That series of Canons have been very popular. Since I already have Nikon dslr system, I went with a Canon A700 with 6x zoom for a pocket camera and backup. You could always check the reviews and prices thru Steve's digicams or dpreview. Otherwise, I think you are ready to get and play with it before your trip and posting all your photos for us to enjoy. Good luck.

 

Thanks JohnQ, what a great website for reviews. However, now that I have read the reviews about Canon E5 IS I am a little concerned. However, I did like the pictures I printed out. The variation of sky colors at sunrise was beautiful. I guess I need to keep doing my homework:rolleyes:

[CALMOM]

Wow! That sounds like a great morning no matter what camera you choose! Can I go shooting with your friend - even just to be his sherpa? I'll carry the 1D Mark 3 :D .

 

Photo, what a incredile that MARK III was but I guess for that price it should come with a professional photograper too:D . I was grateful for the opportunity I had.

[photodoodle]

Photo, what a incredile that MARK III was but I guess for that price it should come with a professional photograper too:D . I was grateful for the opportunity I had.

It's a big, heavy hunk of camera, that's for sure.

 

Calmom, I am so impressed with how hard you worked to make this decision. Echoing what Piper said, you are now in a unique position of being a beginner photographer who has tried a lot of cameras. You have the opportunity to be helpful to many others like you on this board.

[gambit57]

Wow, I'm actually amazed at the info that camera store gave you. Whoever you talked to actually gave you good advice that wasn't pure sales pitch. They deserve some recognition.

 

It sounds like you've focused on the Canon S5. I'd have to agree that it sounds like the best choice for you given your budget. While DSLR's are trendy, point and shoots really are the best for the casual photog on vacation. Photography lessons are really worth more than the latest camera tech.

 

When we went to Alaska a couple months ago, we brought two cameras. While I have a pretty nice DSLR, we used the opportunity to try out a new Canon SD750 cuz our old point and shoot is old and crappy (I've now fully determined that Sony's are pretty useless unless outdoors in broad daylight). Could I have gotten away with just bringing the DSLR? Yes, but I left it in automatic mode much of the time. Yeah, I played with settings some of the time, but that was more for fun and experimentation. Leaving it in auto was just easier.

 

Indoors, I used the new Canon p&s almost exclusively. It was just too hard to get a nice looking indoor shot with the DSLR. Too much playing around with aperture, exposure, lighting, etc. Easier to just whip out the little camera and press one button.

 

On a cost basis and convenience basis, it just makes more sense for most people to go with a nice little point and shoot rather than shell out for a DSLR (even a cheap good one like the Rebel). Most people don't print bigger than a 4x6 so it's just more convenient to get a nice point and shoot with a good zoom lens than to mess around with a DSLR.

 

For comparison sake, I'll do a quickie comparison:

 

Canon S5 - turn on, hit the shutter button for basically all situations. No muss, no fuss. $450 (see cnet.com for pricing)

 

Digital SLR - turn on, adjust ISO, adjust exposure, adjust aperture, then take the shot. If you're not well practiced, this can take you a couple of minutes or more. Might lose the shot opportunity. That's if you don't have to change lenses too.

 

Cost is through the roof. The lower end DSLRs have pretty crappy auto modes IMO. I've played with the Canon Rebel and the Nikon D80 and all online info suggests the D40 is same/worse in auto than the D80. I have a D200 that has a pretty good auto, but that body is $1600. You need to step up to this price point to start to get automatic settings that rival the cheapy point and shoots. The Rebel and D40/D80 auto settings just don't cut it. I have one of the best vacation lenses (cuz of the convenience of needing just one lens to cover such a broad range) the 18-200mm lens which cost another $700. Throw in an external flash to help with indoor shots at $100 (good Canon flashes cost a lot more) and I'm lugging (and seriously lugging cuz all this stuff is HEAVY) about $2400 worth of camera to do what the $450 Canon S5 can do just about as well in terms of what you see on a 4x6 photo print.

 

Yes, the wide angle part of my lens was one big reason why my scenery shots turned out a bit better on the DSLR than the point and shoot Canon i brought along. And yes, the 5 shots a second gave me awesome shots when whale watching or seeing a glacier calve. The weight and the difficulty in taking low light shots was a negative. Whether the pluses are worth the $2000 difference in price is kinda hard to justify.

 

I'm lucky enough to be able to afford the $2000. Playing around with all these options on a proper SLR camera is loads of fun. But, it's VERY costly. If you're on a budget and just looking for a vacation camera, I'm totally against the idea of a DSLR. Just way too costly and not automatic enough.

[CALMOM]

Thanks CodeX57 for your feedback. I think I will sign up for a Photo Class at our Community College in the fall so I won't be so intimidated by the camera. However, I did find it pretty easy to use the Canon E5. I still a little confused about the term "noise". The person who I went with this a.m. try to explain it but the more he explained, the more I got confused. He looked at my pictures I printed from this a.m. and he said he saw very little noise in my Canon E5 pictures, whatever that means:confused:

[photodoodle]

Thanks CodeX57 for your feedback. I think I will sign up for a Photo Class at our Community College in the fall so I won't be so intimidated by the camera. However, I did find it pretty easy to use the Canon E5. I still a little confused about the term "noise". The person who I went with this a.m. try to explain it but the more he explained, the more I got confused. He looked at my pictures I printed from this a.m. and he said he saw very little noise in my Canon E5 pictures, whatever that means:confused:

Here's something that may help: http://moonsdesigns.com/tutorials/psp9/dcnr.html . Dont' worry about any of the info or the product they are selling. I sent you the link so you could compare a noisy image (left side) with a smoother one. Noise is a kind of blotchyness that appears in digital images (this includes scanned images) especially in the dark areas of photos, and most commonly in low light, high ISO situations. Some cameras are noisier than others.

[Minybear]

Fuji FinePix S700 Digital Camera

 

 

The S700 gives you not only a powerful 10X zoom lens, but Picture Stabilization for sharper hand-held shots and many other SLR-style features, all for a point & shoot price. FEATURES INCLUDE: 7.1 megapixel sensor; 10X optical zoom lens equal to 38-380mm; macro focus as close as 0.5"; multi-zone autofocus with manual override; multi-mode exposure control including auto, manual and scene modes; JPEG and RAW file modes; accepts both XD and Secure Digital cards; continuous shooting modes so you capture action at the peak; electronic viewfinder for accurate TTL viewing; 30 fps movie mode w/sound. Supplied with 16MB XD card, (4) AA batteries, USB and AV cables, shoulder strap and Mac/Windows software.

 

What I want over the camera I have which is also a Fuji (I seem to be able to work their buttons.) I want faster shots--just incase of breaching whales or calving glaciers...also I would like a camera that WILL take decent evening indoor pics--the camera I have now doesn't like them. I WOULD like to stay with the XD cards as that is what I have for the camera I have now & they are the larger ones..also after Alaska I'd like the camera for Aus & NZ cruise.

 

CALMOM

 

This is the camera we got in San Diego. My husband loves it.

[OldCodger73]

codex, it does seem a shame to have spent all that money, even though you can afford it, on a DSLR only to use it as a glorified P&S camera. Once you know what you're doing, you can be taking pictures on a DSLR the moment you turn it on. Most people who have taken the time to learn how to use their DSLR never use the auto mode.

 

I do agree with you, most people would be more than happy with a good P&S camera.

[CALMOM]

Here's something that may help: http://moonsdesigns.com/tutorials/psp9/dcnr.html . Dont' worry about any of the info or the product they are selling. I sent you the link so you could compare a noisy image (left side) with a smoother one. Noise is a kind of blotchyness that appears in digital images (this includes scanned images) especially in the dark areas of photos, and most commonly in low light, high ISO situations. Some cameras are noisier than others.

 

Thanks Photodoodle, now I understand. It seems to me that this is only a problem with a close up of an image, correct? Do you know if this was a lens or program this person used? Is there a program that I can buy to make the same corrections? I'm starting to feel like a Pro:D

[CALMOM]

CALMOM

 

This is the camera we got in San Diego. My husband loves it.

 

Thanks Minybear, I will go check out this camera.

[qiangf2]

codex, it does seem a shame to have spent all that money, even though you can afford it, on a DSLR only to use it as a glorified P&S camera. Once you know what you're doing, you can be taking pictures on a DSLR the moment you turn it on. Most people who have taken the time to learn how to use their DSLR never use the auto mode.

 

I never switched to P mode and beyond with my dSLR. Av, Tv and M are what I am comfortable with. Just cannot trust computerized auto mode can do a better job than my own fuzzy logics from human brain.

 

Calcom, how lucky you are! I wish I can spend a morning playing all those different cameras.

[deadzone1003]

Thanks Photodoodle, now I understand. It seems to me that this is only a problem with a close up of an image, correct? Do you know if this was a lens or program this person used? Is there a program that I can buy to make the same corrections? I'm starting to feel like a Pro:D

 

It should be a program. Almost every digital camera has a noise reduction program built into the camera. However, there are trade-offs. The more noise reduction generally results in a loss of details. If you over-utilized a noise reduction program, a picture of your great-grandfather can result in your great-grandfather with a complexion of a teenager. Noise generally results from shooting at higher ISO. If you stick to shooting your photos at ISO 100 or lower, noise would not be a problem. This is an area where DSLR excells. Just don't expect your Canon S5IS to shoot pictures indoor without using a flash. If you want to shoot indoor pictures without a flash, expect noisy pictures. DSLR's excell in low-light situations.

[photodoodle]

Thanks Photodoodle, now I understand. It seems to me that this is only a problem with a close up of an image, correct? Do you know if this was a lens or program this person used? Is there a program that I can buy to make the same corrections? I'm starting to feel like a Pro:D

Well, you can certainly see it more when you blow up the image... I mainly sent you the link so you would know what noise basically is when you are evaluating cameras. Some cameras have a tendency to produce more or less noise than others under the same conditions. So when your friend didn't see much noise in the S5 photos, that's a very good thing.

 

Regarding noise software, I wouldn't make that a priority for now. When you take your photography class you will likely learn the basics of manipulating your photos on the computer with an entry level program. It's probably best for you to learn how to crop, adjust brightness, contrast and the basics before tackling noise reduction.

 

I've started packing tonight! Leaving on Sunday:D .

[CALMOM]

It should be a program. Almost every digital camera has a noise reduction program built into the camera. However, there are trade-offs. The more noise reduction generally results in a loss of details. If you over-utilized a noise reduction program, a picture of your great-grandfather can result in your great-grandfather with a complexion of a teenager. Noise generally results from shooting at higher ISO. If you stick to shooting your photos at ISO 100 or lower, noise would not be a problem. This is an area where DSLR excells. Just don't expect your Canon S5IS to shoot pictures indoor without using a flash. If you want to shoot indoor pictures without a flash, expect noisy pictures. DSLR's excell in low-light situations.

 

I think my great-grandfather would of loved to have his complexion look like a teenager:) (may he rest in peace). I understand what you are saying and I think I will just shoot at ISO 100. Oh wait, what is ISO:o ?

[CALMOM]

Thanks Photodoodle, have a wonderful time and let us know how your trip went. Maybe even share some pictures.

 

Happy Sailing:)

[photodoodle]

It should be a program. Almost every digital camera has a noise reduction program built into the camera. However, there are trade-offs. The more noise reduction generally results in a loss of details. If you over-utilized a noise reduction program, a picture of your great-grandfather can result in your great-grandfather with a complexion of a teenager. Noise generally results from shooting at higher ISO. If you stick to shooting your photos at ISO 100 or lower, noise would not be a problem. This is an area where DSLR excells. Just don't expect your Canon S5IS to shoot pictures indoor without using a flash. If you want to shoot indoor pictures without a flash, expect noisy pictures. DSLR's excell in low-light situations.

Welll.... I might disagree a little bit about sticking to ISO 100. Most of todays p&s produce pretty un-noisy images up to 400 ISO and possibly more depending on the camera. Higher ISO than 100 might be necessary on a rainy, gray day. And you might be surprised how well it does indoors. Anyway, this is why it's good to have time to experiment with the camera before you leave. Is your head spinning yet, Calmom ;) ?

 

You can see some of my pre-Alaska pictures by clicking the link below.

[fcorey]

The Rebel and D40/D80 auto settings just don't cut it. I have one of the best vacation lenses (cuz of the convenience of needing just one lens to cover such a broad range) the 18-200mm lens which cost another $700.

 

If you're on a budget and just looking for a vacation camera, I'm totally against the idea of a DSLR. Just way too costly and not automatic enough.

 

I agree and disagree with you here. The D80 auto settings can produce an acceptable image. Not great or up to full potential of the camera, but extracting that full potential is what make a good photographer, practice/experience. I am still learning, so I usually experiment by taking shots using program modes and auto and compare them. Also, you have to admit that the 18-200 has some limitations to it as well. Its not the end all be all some people like Ken Rockwell say it is. Its more convenient and has VR which is nice but its not my first choice. I got the 17-55 2.8 instead.

 

But I think you are dead on correct about how a dslr can be major overkill as a vacation camera for casual shapshots etc. Even though I am bringing my D80 to Alaska, my wife will be carrying our canon compact. You never know...

 

Anyone reading this, listen to what codex57 is saying. Unless you are going to enlarge to say 8x10 or larger you'll likely be unable to tell a standard 4x6 print from some of these new point & shoot compacts from a midrange dslr like a D80.

[deadzone1003]

I think my great-grandfather would of loved to have his complexion look like a teenager:) (may he rest in peace). I understand what you are saying and I think I will just shoot at ISO 100. Oh wait, what is ISO:o ?

 

ISO is a measure used originally for film, indicating their speed, actually their sensitivity to light. For example, Kodacolor film was ISO 100 and hi-speed Kodacolor film was ISO 400. Hi-speed Kodacolor allows you to take pictures in a lower light setting than regular Kodacolor film. This was carried over to digital cameras. Instead of light hitting film, the digital world has light hitting a sensor which converts it to digital info to create a jpeg which is what is transferred to your computer. Your Canon S5IS has a 1/2.5(0.4) sensor while my Fujifilm S6000fd has a 1/1.7(0.6) sensor. My Fujifilm sensor is about 50% larger than your Canon sensor. My camera is able to take better pictures at low light. Now, the sensor on a DSLR is about 4 times my sensor's size. Guess what, the DSLR even takes better pictures at low light than my camera. Why does Canon uses such a small sensor on the S5IS? Let's say if you got a bigger sensor, the camera would have to be bigger or the zoom range has to be smaller. In any case, if you just look at pictures on your computer and you don't print anything larger than 4x6, you will be happy with the S5IS unless you like to shoot in low-light situations (i.e. caves, twilight),

[CALMOM]

ISO is a measure used originally for film, indicating their speed, actually their sensitivity to light. For example, Kodacolor film was ISO 100 and hi-speed Kodacolor film was ISO 400. Hi-speed Kodacolor allows you to take pictures in a lower light setting than regular Kodacolor film. This was carried over to digital cameras. Instead of light hitting film, the digital world has light hitting a sensor which converts it to digital info to create a jpeg which is what is transferred to your computer. Your Canon S5IS has a 1/2.5(0.4) sensor while my Fujifilm S6000fd has a 1/1.7(0.6) sensor. My Fujifilm sensor is about 50% larger than your Canon sensor. My camera is able to take better pictures at low light. Now, the sensor on a DSLR is about 4 times my sensor's size. Guess what, the DSLR even takes better pictures at low light than my camera. Why does Canon uses such a small sensor on the S5IS? Let's say if you got a bigger sensor, the camera would have to be bigger or the zoom range has to be smaller. In any case, if you just look at pictures on your computer and you don't print anything larger than 4x6, you will be happy with the S5IS unless you like to shoot in low-light situations (i.e. caves, twilight),

 

Deadzone, can I just take you with me on my cruise:o ? Your explaination is very simple for me to understand, thank you. How did you and how long did it take for you to learn all of this? Is this what I would learn in a Photography class? I rarely take pictures at night or inside, mainly outside. If I want to take pictures at night or inside then would I just make sure the ISO is 100? I really appreciate you help.

[gambit57]

codex, it does seem a shame to have spent all that money, even though you can afford it, on a DSLR only to use it as a glorified P&S camera. Once you know what you're doing, you can be taking pictures on a DSLR the moment you turn it on. Most people who have taken the time to learn how to use their DSLR never use the auto mode.

 

I do agree with you, most people would be more than happy with a good P&S camera.

 

It is a shame and I know it, but ya gotta give me time. This past cruise was only my 2nd trip with it and the first with that lens. I'm fairly young and a camera newb so leaving it in auto was my only option in order to get my vacation shots. I experimented when I could, but often had to leave it in auto in order to be able to catch some shots before the opportunity past. I'm still learning all the buttons on the thing.

 

That's another reason why I recommended the p&s to the OP. She's leaving soon. It takes some time to get up to speed on all the basic aspects of using a SLR and she doesn't sound like she has that much time. Both before her trip and even after.

 

The DSLR is an expensive hobby, but one that I intend to master over time. I'm getting there. I've got time. :D

[gambit57]

Also, you have to admit that the 18-200 has some limitations to it as well. Its not the end all be all some people like Ken Rockwell say it is. Its more convenient and has VR which is nice but its not my first choice. I got the 17-55 2.8 instead.

 

Most definitely. It's definitely got some limitations. I do like Ken Rockwell cuz he's practical and not too caught up into minutia and statistic comparisons, but he does overhype the 18-200. However, I'd still say it's worth a lot of the hype because you can get by with just that lens for quite a while. When you don't have to change the lens, you don't risk getting gunk inside and having to clean out your camera (scary for beginners). With all the high winds and water droplets you can get on an Alaskan cruise, that's worth something (or sand/dirt in, say, the Caribbean).

 

For the OP, aperture is something that starts getting pretty vital on a SLR. Most people understand what the 17-55 means. Zoom is understood pretty well. However, aperture is one variable that makes things a little too complicated for the casual photog. It's the 2.8 number in fcorey's example. You want a lower number because the lower it is, the better the low light ability of the lens. With a p&s, you don't really have to worry about aperture.

[gambit57]

If I want to take pictures at night or inside then would I just make sure the ISO is 100? I really appreciate you help.

 

At night or inside, you'd most likely want to up the ISO to the highest you can with acceptable noise. 400 maybe on your camera? On auto, the camera should do that automatically though.

 

Learning about photography takes time and practice. I suppose you can learn about the major aspects in one class, but it's not gonna sink in unless you take a bunch of classes and then try it out with your own camera.

[deadzone1003]

Deadzone, can I just take you with me on my cruise:o ? Your explaination is very simple for me to understand, thank you. How did you and how long did it take for you to learn all of this? Is this what I would learn in a Photography class? I rarely take pictures at night or inside, mainly outside. If I want to take pictures at night or inside then would I just make sure the ISO is 100? I really appreciate you help.

 

When you want to take pictures at night or inside, you will have to raise the ISO, probably up to 400 if you want to avoid using the flash. Unfortunately, many cameras when in automatic mode may bump up to ISO 800 which may be acceptable on the computer screen, but when you print it out, you may find it quite unacceptable. However, in your future S5IS, you can set it to P (Programmed mode) which is really automatic but you are allowed to change certain parameters such as ISO. So many times I have my camera set to P but I bump up my ISO to 400 for indoor pictures though I will shoot at ISO 100 or 200, outdoors. Most important is to learn the limits of your camera; for example, which ISO's are totally unacceptable to you, which you could live with. The old Canon S3IS limits were 400 ISO. Some people found it unacceptable and some didn't. You have to play around with your camera for a month before you go to Alaska, to learn how to use it and feel comfortable with it. Above all, read the manual. Also, don't the cruiseships have photography classes?

[deadzone1003]

CALMOM!

 

Here's a review of the Canon S5IS at:

 

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/powershot_s5-review/index.shtml

 

It's just a S3IS with a few added features.

[RanDe]

 

You can see some of my pre-Alaska pictures by clicking the link below.

 

WOW, your photos are amazing! You must be a professional? What kind of camera do you have and what lenses do you use?

 

My set up is almost the same as codex57, but I have the Nikon D100. I bought the 18-200VR in hopes that I could get some decent pictures in Alaska. I also have a Tamaron 75-300, in case I need a little more reach, but I don't think I'd get near the quality with that lens.

 

I also purchased the S3 IS as a backup and for DH to use. I've been impressed with the shots so far that it has taken.

 

De