jamaica DANGEROUS?

[GBeret]

I should really know better than to reply, but in ANY country, people do bad things with guns. Guns are not inherently bad. I bet you could sit one on the coffee table for 10 years and as long as no one picked it up it wouldn't shoot a single thing.

 

Firearms are just a tool.

 

They are neither good or bad! I support the American Citizens right to own and with the proper documentation carry of firearms for self-protection, hunting and other legitimate uses of such firearms.

 

That said, I hope that this thread doesn't turn into a discussion on firearms. I see no need for it, since we are talking about a Country where citizens are legally barred from owning and carrying firearms, all except the criminals that is. ;)

 

Source:

 

http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Jacobs2.html

 

Quote:

 

There are also cases, like Jamaica, where strict gun laws coexist with high rates of gun violence. There are contrary cases like Israel where non- restrictive gun laws coexist with low rates of gun violence.

[ArizonaRalphie]

I should really know better than to reply, but in ANY country, people do bad things with guns. Guns are not inherently bad. I bet you could sit one on the coffee table for 10 years and as long as no one picked it up it wouldn't shoot a single thing.

As long as we've drifted off onto the subject of guns, let me add this. I've got three and combined they have killed less people than Teddy Kennedy's Pontiac.

[seahorse]

As long as we've drifted off onto the subject of guns, let me add this. I've got three and combined they have killed less people than Teddy Kennedy's Pontiac.

 

To get back on the subject at hand or this will go poof:eek:

 

Is Jamaica dangerous? In my opinion, and it is a professional one:cool: Jamaica is no more dangerous then any other island in the Caribbean.

[ArizonaRalphie]

To get back on the subject at hand or this will go poof:eek:

 

Is Jamaica dangerous? In my opinion, and it is a professional one:cool: Jamaica is no more dangerous then any other island in the Caribbean.

 

This thread should have died a natural death quite some time ago.

[seahorse]

This thread should have died a natural death quite some time ago.

 

:confused: :confused: I guess that is your opinion.

[shark_bait]

No that still wasn't the point. Anyway, shush, we're all friends now.

 

Do you know, I've no idea at all what poppycock is? Smashing word though, isn't it?

 

:)

 

 

Poppycock- A Caramelized popcorn treat. Especially love the one that comes with chocolate. Now Tosh, haven't tried that one yet.:D

[GBeret]

To get back on the subject at hand or this will go poof:eek:

 

Is Jamaica dangerous? In my opinion, and it is a professional one:cool: Jamaica is no more dangerous then any other island in the Caribbean.

 

I gather your referral as a professional is as travel agent or travel consultant and/or professional, not a Law Enforcement professional official or one who is a professional keeper of Crime statistics, is that correct?

 

A google on Jamaica's crime stats, tends to disagree with your 'professional,' opinions as stated here.

 

Here is a quote by Jamaica's Prime Minister PJ Patterson as well as the Caribbean Media Corporation. It also mentions some of the other Islands:

 

Jamaica 'murder capital of the world'

PJ Patterson: crime is Jamaica's most pressing problem

Crime in the Caribbean region - especially that resulting in murder - continues to concern authorities.

 

Haiti remains a highly volatile country - with kidnappings now outstripping others in the region. But concern is mounting in other countries: police leave was cancelled in St Kitts before Christmas, while Guyanese police reported a 50 per cent increase in gun crime.

 

Trinidad 'more risky' than New York

 

A group called Citizens for a Better Trinidad and Tobago have called on their authorities to copy the anti-crime measures adopted in New York City. They are concerned after 2005 saw more than 380 people murdered in the country.

 

A spokesman for the group suggested that life in Trinidad & Tobago is more than four times more risky than in New York, and have suggested the introduction of security cameras and sporting facilities to attract youngsters away from gang membership.

 

Jamaica 'murder capital of the world'

 

Every year global crime statistics present a planetary picture of crime and safety. In the past, some Caribbean cities have appeared on the list of the most violent in the world - but countries like South Africa and Columbia have topped the list.

 

But according to the Caribbean Media Corporation, Jamaica has now been classed the murder capital of the world, after 2005 saw more than 1600 people killed; a tally of at least five people murdered a day.

 

Jamaica's Prime Minister PJ Patterson said, in this final New Year message to the nation before stepping down, that crime was the country's most pressing problem and called on Jamaicans to play a greater role in the fight against it.

 

As BBC Caribbean Magazine has reported in 2005, Jamaica's Operation Kingfish - a task-force set up to deal with violent crime - remains one of the Government's initiatives at tackling the problem.

[shark_bait]

Recommendation to the OP. Post this same question for Cozumel and Grand Caymen. I pick these two locations because they are routinely included with the Jamaica Itinerary. I would expect you will have a pretty good feeling on whether Jamaica is as safe as "Most" Caribbean Cruise stops.

[seahorse]

Gee and I was having fun here:rolleyes:

 

Yes as a travel professional that has been to Jamaica many times and has sent many, many clients there.

 

As I said, Jamaica is a large country and most of the "Crime Statistics" are in Kingston and other large cities. BTW, statistics can be skewed anyway that the statistician wants.Is it per capita? Is it square miles?

 

Tourists do not get murdered every day in Jamaica. The island has the most upscale properties and villas in the Caribbean.

 

I also find it interesting that the official said this when he was stepping down:rolleyes: and not when he was up to the plate. There is crime in the entire Caribbean and yes, it is up to the countries to manage such. Tourism will suffer. When was the last time you heard of anyone going to Haiti.

 

This report was in 2005.

[sjbdtz]

It doesn't matter if it's Ocho Rios, or Montego Bay, or any other part of the largest prettiest island of the Greater Antilles (other than Cuba), but if you are a gay person (or perceived as such), then Jamaica is an extremely dangerous place to visit.

 

And for all of you people who have gay friends in the US, or UK, or OZ, bear in mind where your dollars are spent in Jamaica...government-tolerated violence against gays for no reason than their sexuality.

 

People talk about voting with their wallets if a cruiseline allows jeans in the dining room...yet spend their dollars visiting a place like Jamaica, and wonder why gay people feel marginalized.

 

Amazing.

[seahorse]

It doesn't matter if it's Ocho Rios, or Montego Bay, or any other part of the largest prettiest island of the Greater Antilles (other than Cuba), but if you are a gay person (or perceived as such), then Jamaica is an extremely dangerous place to visit.

 

And for all of you people who have gay friends in the US, or UK, or OZ, bear in mind where your dollars are spent in Jamaica...government-tolerated violence against gays for no reason than their sexuality.

 

People talk about voting with their wallets if a cruiseline allows jeans in the dining room...yet spend their dollars visiting a place like Jamaica, and wonder why gay people feel marginalized.

 

Amazing.

 

Unfortunately, it is against the law to be gay in Jamaica:mad: and a lot of the islands. Look what Grand Cayman did in not letting the gay cruise dock there.

[GBeret]

Gee and I was having fun here:rolleyes:

 

Yes as a travel professional that has been to Jamaica many times and has sent many, many clients there.

 

As I said, Jamaica is a large country and most of the "Crime Statistics" are in Kingston and other large cities. BTW, statistics can be skewed anyway that the statistician wants.Is it per capita? Is it square miles?

 

Tourists do not get murdered every day in Jamaica. The island has the most upscale properties and villas in the Caribbean.

 

I also find it interesting that the official said this when he was stepping down:rolleyes: and not when he was up to the plate. There is crime in the entire Caribbean and yes, it is up to the countries to manage such. Tourism will suffer. When was the last time you heard of anyone going to Haiti.

 

This report was in 2005.

 

As a travel 'professional' do you may be, have a conflict of interest here? You did say "You sent many, many clients there." Right? I suspect you still make your income sending clients there right?

 

I hope that this isn't the case; however, since you are in the industry, one has to suspect your motives here, especially when there seems to be evidence of high crime and murder rates on that Island.

 

I'm assuming, it would be bad for your business, if clients didn't want to go there because of its reputation as the "Murder Capitol of the world."

 

Yes, the report was written in 2005; however, as I stated a 'google' of Jamaican crime statistics will bring a wealth of other not very nice comments and stats., on that Island.

 

I suspect there are those that still vacation in Haiti, just like many that vacation in Jamaica, at resorts, that have armed security guards, patrolling the perimeters and keeping the the residents safe and secure.

 

Yes, I am aware of the old saying "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics

 

That said, as a retired law enforcement, official of some 34 years (Retired Captain in a Major PNW Department.) and dealing with crime and crime statistics, we found them to be very useful in planning our crime fighting efforts. I'm sure the Jamaican LE officials find there crime statistics useful as well in such planning.

[Davey Interweb]

Gee and I was having fun here:rolleyes:

 

Yes as a travel professional that has been to Jamaica many times and has sent many, many clients there.

 

As I said, Jamaica is a large country and most of the "Crime Statistics" are in Kingston and other large cities. BTW, statistics can be skewed anyway that the statistician wants.Is it per capita? Is it square miles?

 

Tourists do not get murdered every day in Jamaica. The island has the most upscale properties and villas in the Caribbean.

 

I also find it interesting that the official said this when he was stepping down:rolleyes: and not when he was up to the plate. There is crime in the entire Caribbean and yes, it is up to the countries to manage such. Tourism will suffer. When was the last time you heard of anyone going to Haiti.

 

This report was in 2005.

 

Jamaica isn't exactly a large country, either geographically (about the size of Connecticut) or by population (less than 2.9 million). The stats I was going by was murders (per capita) per 1000 people. Jamaica ranks third-highest overall, below Columbia and South Africa. Statistically, the country can easily be described as "violent" and even Haiti can boast a much lower overall violent crime rate.

 

There's a difference between knee-jerk reactions to crime such as we saw after the Natalie Halloway episode, and recognizing a country as being a bonafide dangerous place to be.

[Hiwayman]

I gather your referral as a professional is as travel agent or travel consultant and/or professional, not a Law Enforcement professional official or one who is a professional keeper of Crime statistics, is that correct?

 

A google on Jamaica's crime stats, tends to disagree with your 'professional,' opinions as stated here.

 

Here is a quote by Jamaica's Prime Minister PJ Patterson as well as the Caribbean Media Corporation. It also mentions some of the other Islands:

 

Jamaica 'murder capital of the world'

 

PJ Patterson: crime is Jamaica's most pressing problem

Crime in the Caribbean region - especially that resulting in murder - continues to concern authorities.

 

Haiti remains a highly volatile country - with kidnappings now outstripping others in the region. But concern is mounting in other countries: police leave was cancelled in St Kitts before Christmas, while Guyanese police reported a 50 per cent increase in gun crime.

 

Trinidad 'more risky' than New York

 

A group called Citizens for a Better Trinidad and Tobago have called on their authorities to copy the anti-crime measures adopted in New York City. They are concerned after 2005 saw more than 380 people murdered in the country.

 

A spokesman for the group suggested that life in Trinidad & Tobago is more than four times more risky than in New York, and have suggested the introduction of security cameras and sporting facilities to attract youngsters away from gang membership.

 

Jamaica 'murder capital of the world'

 

Every year global crime statistics present a planetary picture of crime and safety. In the past, some Caribbean cities have appeared on the list of the most violent in the world - but countries like South Africa and Columbia have topped the list.

 

But according to the Caribbean Media Corporation, Jamaica has now been classed the murder capital of the world, after 2005 saw more than 1600 people killed; a tally of at least five people murdered a day.

 

Jamaica's Prime Minister PJ Patterson said, in this final New Year message to the nation before stepping down, that crime was the country's most pressing problem and called on Jamaicans to play a greater role in the fight against it.

 

As BBC Caribbean Magazine has reported in 2005, Jamaica's Operation Kingfish - a task-force set up to deal with violent crime - remains one of the Government's initiatives at tackling the problem.

 

Great post, GBeret! Pretty tough for these Cruise Critic TA's to argue with the FACTS. I'd like to see one of these Jamaica lovers spend a day in downtown MoBay. They won't, but they'd be happy to send you or I there for a commission. :rolleyes:

[seahorse]

Great post, GBeret! Pretty tough for these Cruise Critic TA's to argue with the FACTS. I'd like to see one of these Jamaica lovers spend a day in downtown MoBay. They won't, but they'd be happy to send you or I there for a commission. :rolleyes:

 

WOW........I heard that some posters on the Princess board were mean but I did not believe it, now I do.........crass too:rolleyes:

 

BTW I am not a "Cruise Critic TA"........ stupid is as stupid does:rolleyes:

[B40 Tha Cruisa]

WOW........I heard that some posters on the Princess board were mean but I did not believe it, now I do.........crass too:rolleyes:

 

BTW I am not a "Cruise Critic TA"........ stupid is as stupid does:rolleyes:

 

Dont generalize Princess cruisers as a group...

 

Im a pretty nice guy! :)

[Wadadli Sails]

I have never been to Jamaica but I definitely agree with JPRLHR; travelers need to pack their common sense and I would like to add safety sense when they go on vacation to the Caribbean. I have seen many visitors dressed inappropriately in the city and engaging in risky behaviour that they would not consider if they were at home all because they are on a Caribbean vacation.

[Jacqueline]

I am glad to see some facts interjected into this conversation. The opinions that "crime can happen anywhere" is true to some extent, (as in lightening can always strike).

But the fact is that Jamaica is a lightening rod. Information on this is welcomed.

[GBeret]

[quote name=

Sails]I have never been to Jamaica but I definitely agree with JPRLHR; travelers need to pack their common sense and I would like to add safety sense when they go on vacation to the Caribbean. I have seen many visitors dressed inappropriately in the city and engaging in risky behaviour that they would not consider if they were at home all because they are on a Caribbean vacation.

 

Wadadli Sails:

 

This is good advice no matter where you are and what your doing. We tend to call it situational awareness. Another important thing is don't act like 'Prey.'

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695195625,00.html

 

http://faculty.ncwc.edu/TOConnor/431/431lect03.htm

[Jacqueline]

On becoming number one

published: Sunday | January 8, 2006

 

 

Orville W. Taylor, Contributor

 

WE ARE number one! It is now official. Jamaica is the murder capital of the world. Mark you, this is not the sort of honour I would die to achieve but fact is fact.

 

When I started to write this column, the murder total was 13, so we are right on target to maintain the shameful 2005 record when almost 1,700 persons were killed. Like all conscientious Jamaicans, including my undertaker cousin who is buried with jobs and still has a lot of 'work on ice', my wish this year is an end to this senseless bloodletting.

 

Yet, we have started on a bad note with a continuation of the homicide pattern of the last few years while relations between the police and the citizenry show little sign of improvement.

 

Etc....

[Hiwayman]

WOW........I heard that some posters on the Princess board were mean but I did not believe it, now I do.........crass too:rolleyes:

 

BTW I am not a "Cruise Critic TA"........ stupid is as stupid does:rolleyes:

 

I express my opinion that folks give Jamaica a wide berth because the climate of violence is too unpredictable. You send folks to Jamaica on vacations and you put money in your pocket for it, so your "TA" opinion is a bit tainted on this particular subject matter, sorry! Most of the folks who travel to Jamaica from cruise ships don't have the luxury of sinking their feet into the gorgeous white sands of an all inclusive resort well protected by walls, barb wire and armed guards.

[JPRLHR]

I express my opinion that folks give Jamaica a wide berth because the climate of violence is too unpredictable. You send folks to Jamaica on vacations and you put money in your pocket for it, so your "TA" opinion is a bit tainted on this particular subject matter, sorry! Most of the folks who travel to Jamaica from cruise ships don't have the luxury of sinking their feet into the gorgeous white sands of an all inclusive resort well protected by walls, barb wire and armed guards.

 

There's just no let up with you and your lust for sensationalism is there.. Have you got a fetish about armed guards or something..?? The name Hiwayman itself suggests your interest in bandits.

 

Let's make this perfectly clear once more... There is no barb wire around the resort boundaries and the security guards are not armed either. What part of that is so difficult to understand..??

 

Also, if Seahorse is anything like the vast majority of T/A's that i've dealt with over the years then they have only been too happy to divulge any negatives along with the positive spin on any destination. The chances are that if he/she didn't book them to Jamaica, the client would probably go to another Caribbean island anyway so the commission factor is totally irrelevant.

[seahorse]

There's just no let up with you and your lust for sensationalism is there.. Have you got a fetish about armed guards or something..?? The name Hiwayman itself suggests your interest in bandits.

 

Let's make this perfectly clear once more... There is no barb wire around the resort boundaries and the security guards are not armed either. What part of that is so difficult to understand..??

 

Also, if Seahorse is anything like the vast majority of T/A's that i've dealt with over the years then they have only been too happy to divulge any negatives along with the positive spin on any destination. The chances are that if he/she didn't book them to Jamaica, the client would probably go to another Caribbean island anyway so the commission factor is totally irrelevant.

 

Thank You,

 

Absolutely true, I stopped booking the DR for 2 yrs. because of malaria. We have a responsibility to divulge gross negatives on destinations.

 

I say.......if you are apprehensive about going to Jamaica......do not go, simple as that:) I can only give my spin on my visits and the visits of my clients.

 

It has always been one of my pet peeves about Jamaica when clients act as if they will get murdered as soon as they get off the ship or flight. That is unrealistic and narrow minded. Remember when you get approached in the Caribbean to purchase something, NO is a complete sentence:)

 

Happy travels to all and be safe:D

[stoneharborlady]

There's just no let up with you and your lust for sensationalism is there.. Have you got a fetish about armed guards or something..?? The name Hiwayman itself suggests your interest in bandits.

 

Let's make this perfectly clear once more... There is no barb wire around the resort boundaries and the security guards are not armed either. What part of that is so difficult to understand..??

 

 

 

 

Pardon me for the correction, but we were there last month. The "Bamboo Beach Club" is a glorified name for a dumpy little beach, but they definitely had barbed wire fence surrounding the property. I cannot attest to armed guards.

[seacuracao]

Great post, GBeret! Pretty tough for these Cruise Critic TA's to argue with the FACTS. I'd like to see one of these Jamaica lovers spend a day in downtown MoBay. They won't, but they'd be happy to send you or I there for a commission. :rolleyes:

 

I guess I am a Jamaica lover. Lived there for many years.

I would no more go to Flankers in MoBay than I would venture into East New York. Would you? Do you even know where Flankers is??

There are ugly things about every island. The successful tourist boards keep them from the papers. Jamaica bashing has always been a favorite of journalists everywhere.

Did you know that in Nassau, tourist rape used to be high on the list of crimes against tourists?

 

If you look at the location of most murders in Jamaica, it is either Kingston or the ghetto of Mobay.

St Mary parish is known for marital murder.

 

You will not find it on the hip strip of MoBay or most towns of Jamaica.

 

I have to keep this thread from my DW. She is from Jamaica and is continually amazed at the level of violence she sees when watching American news.

The boards are here to guide you. Too me , the Jamaica board is full of a lot more positives than negatives

And by the by, the cruise ships did boycott Mobay some years ago. Why did they return??????:cool: