Cruise Smoking Bans Clouded By Complaints

[Jemima]

No doubt many other people are as stunned as we are when we see cigarettes or smell smoke on a cruise. We know there are smoking areas, but somehow forget to expect it. Perhaps that is why smokers see people waving away smoke or looking unhappy. They just weren't expecting it. At home we sometimes see people smoking in cars or outside far away from entrances, but that's it. I'm now retired, but my former workplace has been totally smoke free for around 20 years. None of my friends smoke.

[babyher]

No doubt many other people are as stunned as we are when we see cigarettes or smell smoke on a cruise. We know there are smoking areas, but somehow forget to expect it. Perhaps that is why smokers see people waving away smoke or looking unhappy. They just weren't expecting it. At home we sometimes see people smoking in cars or outside far away from entrances, but that's it. I'm now retired, but my former workplace has been totally smoke free for around 20 years. None of my friends smoke.

 

You have to be kidding me. "Stunned" by the fact that people smoke?????? Forget to expect people may be smoking????

 

Come on.

 

Our smoking spots may be slowly dwindleing down , but there are still plenty of smokers out there. Every single office bldg , mall, restaurant/bar around here have one of those tall plastic "smoking stands" that you put the butts in and they die out. And there are always a good number of people out there.

[kryos]

Perhaps non-smokers have not spoken up enough on this. While we are big HAL fans, we are likely to move to another cruiseline unless HAL moves soon to decrease on board smoking.

How much more restricted do you want smoking to be? Already we can't smoke in many lounges, can't smoke in the casino on some nights (from what I understand the casino is totally smoke-free on the Vista ships), and we even lost that tiny area on the Lido deck, near the bar, for smoking. What more do you want?

 

Smokers like to cruise too ... and we want to be able to enjoy our cruises. I think HAL has been more than accommodating to the non-smokers, even to the point of penalizing smokers. Ever hear the term "live and let live." I doubt the few areas where we can smoke present that much of an inconvenience to non-smokers. There are far more places you can go to be free of smoke than we can go to indulge our vice. Now you want to take those away from us too? I'm sorry, but that's pretty selfish and I'm surprised you feel that way. I've met you ... and you are far too nice a person to be that petty.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Jemima]

Kyros,

I think I've mentioned before that you are a considerate smoker as were other CCers who smoked. For example, even on an outdoor tour, you moved a bit away from the group so as not to bother anyone. Unfortunately there were some who were not considerate and who even smoked outside the smoking areas. I think I'm a nice person. Note I did not make negative comments to smokers, do not lecture people on health, and when in a smoking area don't expect smokers to stop smoking.

It is ok with me if there are some smoking areas on ships. The spaces need to be more clearly defined, separated and ventilated. I'd also prefer outside smoking limited to certain areas. I'm not pushing for zero smoking. I'm unsure on cabin smoking. HAL does do an excellent job of getting rid of any smoke smell and has some kind of sprinkler system. Many people though want non-smoking cabins. If a ship goes to non-smoking cabins they probably should have a 24 hr. smoking area convenient to the cabins.

On the Veendam one of the smokers' concerns was the no smoking lido pool area. I really appreciated this and it was more because of seating than smoking. One negative with HAL ships is the amount seating in the lido buffet and the lido pool area tables. The Veendam cruise had sufficient seating mostly because lido pool area tables weren't taken up by smokers at lunch times.

In reply to another cruiser, I really don't notice I'm in a smoking area unless people are smoking. This is probably true of many non-smokers who either live in places that prohibit public indoor smoking or who only go to no smoking places. On the Veendam we sat down in a comfy place in the Crows Nest and realized a few minutes later in was the smoking section.

[Sundagger]

Actually, on my recent Legend cruise, I compared the list of areas in which smoking was allowed with the list of bars. It turns out, smoking was allowed in every bar, and not just one side. Smoking was also permitted in the vast majority of the casino, although there was a small slot machine area marked no smoking on the machines. The smokers extended the smoking area outside the casino and into the hallway. The two lounge areas right by the dining room entrance seemed to be non-smoking.

 

I wonder why smokers complain there are so few smoking areas when virtually all the bar areas and half the open decks allow smoking. Isn't that enough to accommodate the 20% of cruisers who smoke? Are they suggesting it's unfair that they can't smoke in the dining room during dinner, or in the show lounge during shows?

 

This is the Holland America board - your comments have absolutely nothing to do with HAL ships. You could discuss your findings on the RCCL board if you were on the Legend of the Seas or the Carnival board if you were on the Carnival Legend.

[jtl513]

Actually, on my recent Legend cruise, ... smoking was allowed in every bar,

Fortunately Holland America ships are not like that.

[thomasale]

For anyone interested -- I am starting a new group -- ex-smokers for smoker rights -- I and hubby just quit (decided to save the money as az passed a $1.00 a pack tax for low income child care -- yeah -- like your kids are my responsibility because I smoke -- I am just hoping that the next law will be forced sterilzation of all those people that can't afford to have kids -- too many kids hurts the environment and impacts my taxes -- so shouldn't their rights be dictated too -- just like smokers??) Anyway, its been two months now and we will not start up again. However, I am still appalled that people think it is okay to view others as disgusting, etc -- because they engage in a behavior you dont. I find athletic jocks who sweat all over the promenade deck as they bump me out of the way during their run to be truly disgusting -- coming in contact with their bodily fluids is a true biohazard and much more dangerous than the poor person standing outside in the wind smoking a cigarette. Right now, moralistic attitude towards smokers is socially acceptable -- one smoker on a cruise is not going to lead to your death. You just need someone and something to hate -- and it is okay (even applauded) for it to be smokers. May you all experience such social ridicule at some time. Your SUV, etc. causes more potential damage than my smokes ever would have -- so get off your high horse. May your judgments be returned to you 1000 times over.

 

As an ex smoker (quit in 1984) I am joining YOUR group. I support each individuals right to choose. As long as smokers stay in their area it should be OK. That my friends is America!

[thomasale]

For anyone interested -- I am starting a new group -- ex-smokers for smoker rights -- I and hubby just quit (decided to save the money as az passed a $1.00 a pack tax for low income child care -- yeah -- like your kids are my responsibility because I smoke -- I am just hoping that the next law will be forced sterilzation of all those people that can't afford to have kids -- too many kids hurts the environment and impacts my taxes -- so shouldn't their rights be dictated too -- just like smokers??) Anyway, its been two months now and we will not start up again. However, I am still appalled that people think it is okay to view others as disgusting, etc -- because they engage in a behavior you dont. I find athletic jocks who sweat all over the promenade deck as they bump me out of the way during their run to be truly disgusting -- coming in contact with their bodily fluids is a true biohazard and much more dangerous than the poor person standing outside in the wind smoking a cigarette. Right now, moralistic attitude towards smokers is socially acceptable -- one smoker on a cruise is not going to lead to your death. You just need someone and something to hate -- and it is okay (even applauded) for it to be smokers. May you all experience such social ridicule at some time. Your SUV, etc. causes more potential damage than my smokes ever would have -- so get off your high horse. May your judgments be returned to you 1000 times over.

 

As an ex smoker (quit in 1984) I am joining YOUR group. I support each individuals right to choose. As long as smokers stay in their area it should be OK. That my friends is America!

[thomasale]

For anyone interested -- I am starting a new group -- ex-smokers for smoker rights -- I and hubby just quit (decided to save the money as az passed a $1.00 a pack tax for low income child care -- yeah -- like your kids are my responsibility because I smoke -- I am just hoping that the next law will be forced sterilzation of all those people that can't afford to have kids -- too many kids hurts the environment and impacts my taxes -- so shouldn't their rights be dictated too -- just like smokers??) Anyway, its been two months now and we will not start up again. However, I am still appalled that people think it is okay to view others as disgusting, etc -- because they engage in a behavior you dont. I find athletic jocks who sweat all over the promenade deck as they bump me out of the way during their run to be truly disgusting -- coming in contact with their bodily fluids is a true biohazard and much more dangerous than the poor person standing outside in the wind smoking a cigarette. Right now, moralistic attitude towards smokers is socially acceptable -- one smoker on a cruise is not going to lead to your death. You just need someone and something to hate -- and it is okay (even applauded) for it to be smokers. May you all experience such social ridicule at some time. Your SUV, etc. causes more potential damage than my smokes ever would have -- so get off your high horse. May your judgments be returned to you 1000 times over.

 

As an ex smoker (quit in 1984) I am joining YOUR group. I support each individuals right to choose. As long as smokers stay in their area it should be OK. That my friends is America!

[m steve]

My parents smoked, mom died at 86, my partner smokes, my best friend smoked and I haven't in 40 years. Yes, I hate to be in an enclosed smoking area and have my clothes smell but on a ship? Get over it. There's lots of space for everyone unless you just want to be an annoyance and parade thru the smoking areas bitching and moaning.

[Golfette]

Sorry guys, Jemima has it right. We live in CA which is a non-smoking state. We can literally go for weeks, months in which we do not encounter smoke.

 

Although it has been said countless times, smokers do not realize the impact smoke has on non-smokers & how easy it is to smell from a considerable distance away. Hence the "waving arms & coughing" which is not feigned, but a real reaction to the smoke.

 

While I sympathize with you & feel there should be designated smoking areas, I do NOT believe smoking on balconies should be permitted. There is nothing on a balcony I can do, short of a blaring radio or screaming constantly that will impact your enjoyment of your balcony, while "your" smoking on the balcony will ruin mine.

 

I do not pretend to know the answer to this problem, but a problem it is, indeed, for all of us.

[seamenow]

IMO the goal of the vociferous anti-smokers is to eliminate smoking altogether. While they would prefer to do it all at once (as evidenced by some of the posts on this thread), they understand that this cannot be done. Thus, their intent is to do it incrementally. Once done, since health is the new religion, they will turn their attention to other deadly sins.

 

Well I think we should start now. It is my opinion that obesity is incredibly harmful to society. The costs of obesity to the medical system are huge! This is an epidemic that must be cured!

 

"It has been estimated that the annual cost of overweight and obesity in the U.S. is $122.9 billion. This estimate accounts for $64.1 billion in direct costs and $58.8 billion in indirect costs related to the obesity epidemic, a sum that is comparable to the economic costs of cigarette smoking."

Source: http://www.obesityinamerica.org/economicimpact.html

 

The eating habits of obese people set a horrible example for impressionable children who should be protected at all cost from the deadly killer. Children on a cruise ship are exposed to glutinous people grazing the buffets while needing to use a scooter to get around because their bodies can no longer carry their own weight.

 

Therefore, the cruise lines should be forced to start weighing people as they board their ships to determine if they should be allowed to partake in the buffets, or if they should be put on a healthy diet while cruising.

 

Again, this is to protect society from the costs of obesity, to protect impressionable children and bluntly to protect the individuals from themselves and their harmful eating habits.

[sail7seas]

Jemima and Golfette said it. When you live in a state with very limited smoking permitted in public, we are hardly ever exposed to it. We never encounter it in any work place. Almost everyplace you would go is a workplace for someone. There are parks and beaches where it is banned. It is only on the ships where we encounter smoking sections and people smoking in lounges etc. Between cruises we don't even consider being exposed to smoke so when we are it is all the more noticeable to us on the ships. And, it bothers us all the more because in our regular, daily lives we almost never smell cigarette smoke. Makes it that much more unpleasant for us.

 

That being said......DH and I have always enjoyed sitting at the bar in both Ocean Bar and Crows Nest. We are fully aware smoking is permitted there. It is rare when someone's smoke bothers us at either bar but if it does, we leave. In two weeks on Maasdam last month, we encountered maybe 3 or 4 people who smoked a night here or there in Ocean Bar. There were many nights when no one lit a cigarette the whole time we were at the bar. There were somewhat more smokers in Crows Nest but luckily they were seated on the other side of the bar from us. And even there, the number of smokers was very low. We have found the percentage of people who smoke on HAL (usually) is quite low. Our last 10 or so cruises, we encountered small numbers of people smoking. There are less in society as a whole so fewer on the ships, as well.

 

Which makes it all the easier for cruise lines to make it more restrictive. It will make higher and higher percentage of people happy and fewer and fewer people displeased.

 

 

[Two if by Sea]

I do not pretend to know the answer to this problem, but a problem it is, indeed, for all of us.

 

I DO pretend to know the answer to this problem. Some cruise ships have done it. Have the downwind (aft, I presume) cabins be smoking and the upwind cabins non-smoking. Same on deck. That would be a cheap solution for the outdoor areas.

 

The expensive solutions are for the indoor areas. Short of having smoking and nonsmoking cruises (every other week?) they'll have to put money into proper ventilation of separate smoking areas in enough bars that everyone is happy.

[DedeM]

Jemima and Golfette said it. When you live in a state with very limited smoking permitted in public, we are hardly ever exposed to it. We never encounter it in any work place. Almost everyplace you would go is a workplace for someone. There are parks and beaches where it is banned. It is only on the ships where we encounter smoking sections and people smoking in lounges etc. Between cruises we don't even consider being exposed to smoke so when we are it is all the more noticeable to us on the ships. And, it bothers us all the more because in our regular, daily lives we almost never smell cigarette smoke. Makes it that much more unpleasant for us.

I totally agree. It always catches me off guard when I'm on a ship.

 

In Florida there hasn't been any smoking in bars and restaurants for so long and it's been wonderful. Initially smokers were very upset about this law change and yet everyone has managed. The bars and restaurants didn't go out of business and being indoors became a more pleasant experience.

 

I hope that one day the cruiselines ban smoking in all enclosed areas. I believe that everyone will survive that too.

 

*dons flame retardant suit*

[prescottbob]

Ahoy!

 

Perhaps to keep the 'Holier than Thou' crowd, aka, the 'scowl and wave crowd' happy HAL might consider installing the following shelters throughout the various bars and decks:

 

http://www.portafab.com/smoking-shelters.shtml

 

Bon Voyage and Good Health!

Bob (one of the 'lepers'):)

[Candy]

...Hence the "waving arms & coughing" which is not feigned, but a real reaction to the smoke.

A great many of these arm-waving/nose-pinching/pretend-coughing gestures are merely a social comment from people who think they are superior to the perceived 'offenders', something like the Prius Hybrid owner rolling her eyes at a Lamborghini.

While I sympathize with you & feel there should be designated smoking areas, I do NOT believe smoking on balconies should be permitted. There is nothing on a balcony I can do, short of a blaring radio or screaming constantly that will impact your enjoyment of your balcony, while "your" smoking on the balcony will ruin mine.

The inability to smoke on my balcony will ruin mine.

But my husband and I believe in a loose interpretation of "following the rules"

My favorite 'interpretation' came from a lady holding a swim-diaper-clad toddler in the hot tub chastising a man for smoking near her.

[rebeljohn]

These smoking threads are interesting reading.............I like to have a cigar while checking out the comments...........then when the thread gets too controversial, it is pulled, and everyone goes to the next thread.............It would be nice to have just ONE smoking thread, that the moderators don't pull, and everyone can vent in one place. It would be fine entertainment.................

[rebeljohn]

Candy..........Where is your ZuiderPrincess sig line? Your post doesn't look right without it................

[prescottbob]

Ahoy!

 

During embarkation check-in HAL will distribute arm bands with an 'S' to be worn by all smokers during the cruise (color coordinated for elegant casual and formal nights, of course). Thus, this 'group' can be readily recognized by one and all. Those who choose not to wear the bands and are indeed deemed by fellow cruisers as 'the evil ones' will need to be publically ridculed by 'walking the plank' over the Lido pool. Herding the 'S' group on port tenders would also avoid those folks who wish not to be in contact what-so-ever with 'the evil ones'.

 

Seems abit reminiscent of something that went on in Europe in the late 30's and 40's. Geez, what was that now?

 

Bon Voyage and Good Health (cough)!

Bob:)

[Candy]

Candy..........Where is your ZuiderPrincess sig line? Your post doesn't look right without it................

I usually use it only once in a thread, to cut down on 'sigfile clutter'. I thought I'd already posted here.

 

Candy the ZuiderPrincess

[rebeljohn]

I usually use it only once in a thread, to cut down on 'sigfile clutter'. I thought I'd already posted here.

 

Candy the ZuiderPrincess

 

 

.......that's better...............I like the smoking icon too..............I guess that means I can smoke while reading the thread..............

 

Since you are the Zuidy expert...........where is the best place to smoke cigars on the Zuidy....................?

[Candy]

.......that's better...............I like the smoking icon too..............I guess that means I can smoke while reading the thread... Since you are the Zuidy expert... where is the best place to smoke cigars on the Zuidy...?

The Oak Room comes to mind... it's just off the Crow's Nest on the starboard side.

 

Candy <-- will check it out for ya in November

[yarlenna]

Sorry guys, Jemima has it right. We live in CA which is a non-smoking state. We can literally go for weeks, months in which we do not encounter smoke.

 

Although it has been said countless times, smokers do not realize the impact smoke has on non-smokers & how easy it is to smell from a considerable distance away. Hence the "waving arms & coughing" which is not feigned, but a real reaction to the smoke.

 

While I sympathize with you & feel there should be designated smoking areas, I do NOT believe smoking on balconies should be permitted. There is nothing on a balcony I can do, short of a blaring radio or screaming constantly that will impact your enjoyment of your balcony, while "your" smoking on the balcony will ruin mine.

 

I do not pretend to know the answer to this problem, but a problem it is, indeed, for all of us.

Well said

[kakalina]

For anyone interested -- I am starting a new group -- ex-smokers for smoker rights -- I and hubby just quit (decided to save the money as az passed a $1.00 a pack tax for low income child care -- yeah -- like your kids are my responsibility because I smoke -- I am just hoping that the next law will be forced sterilzation of all those people that can't afford to have kids -- too many kids hurts the environment and impacts my taxes -- so shouldn't their rights be dictated too -- just like smokers??) Anyway, its been two months now and we will not start up again. However, I am still appalled that people think it is okay to view others as disgusting, etc -- because they engage in a behavior you dont. I find athletic jocks who sweat all over the promenade deck as they bump me out of the way during their run to be truly disgusting -- coming in contact with their bodily fluids is a true biohazard and much more dangerous than the poor person standing outside in the wind smoking a cigarette. Right now, moralistic attitude towards smokers is socially acceptable -- one smoker on a cruise is not going to lead to your death. You just need someone and something to hate -- and it is okay (even applauded) for it to be smokers. May you all experience such social ridicule at some time. Your SUV, etc. causes more potential damage than my smokes ever would have -- so get off your high horse. May your judgments be returned to you 1000 times over.

 

Mina: I am with you. We smoked our last cigarettes on June 30. Thanks to the wonder pill Chantix. I can talk to a smoker or walk through a smoking area and it doesn 't cause me to cough and act like I'm doing the hokey pokey. In Arizona lots of restaurants and bars have installed outdoor patios for smoking, so it is still around. I like you attitude about the new tax.:D