NCL Service Charge - Can this be changed? waved?

[rsinj]

If you take housekeepers and waiters who can make as little as $50 a week (before tips) and then change it to pay them $10 an hour, plus $15/hr over 40 hours thats going from $50 a week to $400 regular, $600 in overtime thats costing cruise lines an extra $1,150 more a week per crew and then times that the amount of hundreds of waiters and housekeepers. It all adds up.

 

James - you still don't get it. Nobody is forcing anyone to take the crewmember's job. It doesn't matter how difficult a job it is, it doesn't matter how many hours they work. They signed up for that job and the pay that goes along with it. They surely know in advance what their pay is and what it consists of - it is right in their contract - do they read that contract before they sign it? Does it say that they are guaranteed tips and that passengers are obligated to provide any guaranteed level of gratuity?

 

It works both ways James.

 

Howard

[98Charlie]

James - you still don't get it. Nobody is forcing anyone to take the crewmember's job. It doesn't matter how difficult a job it is, it doesn't matter how many hours they work. They signed up for that job and the pay that goes along with it. They surely know in advance what their pay is and what it consists of - it is right in their contract - do they read that contract before they sign it? Does it say that they are guaranteed tips and that passengers are obligated to provide any guaranteed level of gratuity?

 

It works both ways James.

 

Howard

Actually, its johnnyboz who was saying (trolling, IMHO) that the cruise lines should pay a living wage, apparently beliving that it will come from the cruise line profits and not be passed along to the consumer.

 

This is just my views on it and I honestly don't really care about tips, I do this job because I like the job and I love working on a cruise ship but most people here are here because of the money.

 

I don't agree with the bottom line of James math bringing the cost of a cruise to $2500 from $599. But, there is no doubt in my mind, that going to a "living wage" structure would increase the cost of a cruise by more than $10 per person per day.

 

Charlie

[rsinj]

Actually, its johnnyboz who was saying (trolling, IMHO) that the cruise lines should pay a living wage, apparently beliving that it will come from the cruise line profits and not be passed along to the consumer.

 

I'm not oblivious to the reason why cruiselines structure their work agreements with the crew as they do, clearly it is because of financial and profit reasons. They choose the approaches they do to maximize their profits and minimize their obligations to the crew.

 

It is fairly obvious that if the "full (no tip) salaries" were to go through the cruiselines, and the cruiselines would not raise prices, the only other place to make up the difference is from their own profits - and I don't think any sane person would believe that a cruiseline will simply change, willingly reducing their profits because "they have enough" or whatever the argument made by johnnyboz was.

 

Howard

[Don Haynes]

The simple solution to those who ask to have their service charges dropped is to have the captain of the ship and security drop them off at the first port of call. No tips, no cruise.

[zqvol]

The simple solution to those who ask to have their service charges dropped is to have the captain of the ship and security drop them off at the first port of call. No tips, no cruise.

 

The real solution is to simply call it a mandatory service charge that cannot be removed and be done with it. It can be billed as part of the fare like taxes, etc. and is part of the non commisionable fees.

 

The real issue is that some people do not want to pay it whether it is a tip, a gratuity, a service charge or anything else, if it goes to the crew their opinion is that it should be in the fare.

 

I would love to hear from someone who has had the fees completely removed since NCL redid their contracts.

[newmexicoNita]

I think everyone who goes into a career where they depend on the bulk of their pay coming from guests giving a subjective gratuity first read and sign a document which states that, and that if they want to go around carrying a chip on their shoulder thinking that the customers are screwing the crew, then maybe such a career really isn't for them.

 

I really couldn't care if making rent is a problem for you or anyone else - that is not my problem. You have a gripe with the amount of money you make, take that up with your employer. I am the customer, not your employer.

 

Howard

good point; I was a car hop while in college one summer. sure we worked really hard, and sometimes we didn't get any tips (olden days plus lots of kids ordering just cokes) I knew when I took the job, how much money I made depended on what type of a job I did and tips would be my main source of income.

 

Nita

[newmexicoNita]

I paid for my cruise. No One ever said there was to be a mandatory $10 pp per day added on when I bought the cruise. These people work for the cruise line. Let them pay them appropriately. Im taking the money off immediately. These thieves rip you off every chance they get. The tours are ridiculously overrpriced as is any other service you want provided on the ship.

Where have you been and what kind of vacations are you accustom to taking? Do you tip in restaurants, did the restaurant advise you, when you walked in, tipping would be required? You live in florida for heavens sake where the resort locations place a 17% auto tip on all bills. yes, the tours are expensive, that is why many of us choose to tour on our own, no one ever said you are expected to take the ship excursions. What about tipping housekeeping when you stay at a hotel, or do you not do this either? I have never seen it written, you must tip these people, but protacal says, you leave a few dollars each day.

 

Why the $10 per day auto tips (which most lines now charge) why can't you bring your own liquor on board, why these things? Because of all the cheapos out there that take advantage of everything they can. So you want the cruise lines to pay their employees better? Well. do you want to pay more for the cruise or do you think the cruise lines are in business to lose money?

 

I will get off my high horse now, but people who makes statements like what you are saying just don't get it.....oh, and I just read your remark about HAL. Man, I guess you haven't cruised for many years. HAL does have higher price than many lines, but they also have a $10 auto tip addition just like Carnival, NCL, Princess etc.

 

Nita

[MrLee]

I paid for my cruise. No One ever said there was to be a mandatory $10 pp per day added on when I bought the cruise. These people work for the cruise line. Let them pay them appropriately. Im taking the money off immediately. These thieves rip you off every chance they get. The tours are ridiculously overrpriced as is any other service you want provided on the ship.

 

 

Regardless of comments here, I certainly hope you and all the others who believe as you do, get exactly the cruise you deserve. :D

[NorthernNeighbour]

Greetings everyone,

We've sailed on Princess and Carnival.

Can someone tell me if the Service Charge is mandatory? Meaning - I realize that tipping is optional in addition to the service charge.... but I prefer doing all this sort of thing on my own and in person.

 

Do I have the right on NCL to ask to have the service charges removed from my account?

 

I'd like to hear of the experience of others. Princess and Carnival allow me to have the entire amount removed.

 

We always give something extra (in addition to the service charge per day) in person. I have found most people do that unless the service was not up to par. So far on NCL, we have never had cabin attendants who were not first rate.

 

The reason the cruise ships instituted this service charge policy was of course economic (their staff depend on tips). A lot of North Americans never tip anyone and, of course, Europeans always expect the tip to be included in the price.

 

I know it seems counter-intuitive that service personnel would make an extra effort when they know they will get a tip regardless -- but in practice it does NOT work out this way. Over 95% of service personnel perform better knowing they will get an automatic tip -- a much greater percentage than those who know only they might get a tip. It seems some people will never tip voluntarily no matter how good the service is.

 

Some people make the argument that after spending thousands of dollars on a cruise -- why should they tip? But the fact that service personnel depend on tips is baked into the price. If there were a 'no tipping' policy, the cruise lines would have to raise prices to be able to pay staff the going rate -- or risk doing business with sub-standard staff, not a wise move!

[Don Haynes]

I can't believe there are so many Scrooges out there that they could care less what others are earning per week, especially during this time of the year. Shame on all of you Scrooges.

 

God loves many who earn less more than those who earn more. Take your high class and shove it.

[dispachcops]

OK, I have remained silent long enough.... As far as everyone that works on the cruise ship getting their fingers in the tip pool, that is not right. The traditional tipping used to go like this:

"As a general rule of thumb, you can count on the following amounts falling within the tipping guidelines:

• Room Steward - $3.00 to $3.50
  
• Dining Room Waiter - $3.00 to $3.50
  
• Dining Room Asst. Waiter - $1.50 to $2.00"

Those were the only people that got tips in the traditional system. The comments that I made on other threads and usually got my head ripped off and told that I was a cheapo and should not be cruising were based on the traditional tipping system. I am all for tipping for excellent service. I remove tips based on the usage that I put on the system. Why tip the maître d' when you do not use his services? It would be like me tipping a butler having never used his services.

 

The cruise lines paid their "non-tipped" employees livable wages before the surcharge/auto-tips were put into place, and only the people that got tipped were paid the lower wages (if they were lower wages... we don't actually know) with the expectation that if they were exceptional in the customer service department, that they would/could make exceptional money with tips, sometimes up to 10x their salary. Mediocre service would make up to 3-4 times their salary. Poor service would be lucky to equal their low salary because people would not tip the terrible service. With the advent of surcharges, the customer service level has gone down. When I cruised in Premier cruise lines in 1989, it had traditional tipping and and the service was EXCELLENT. My cruises on NCL with the autotipping (past 2 cruises) then the change in wording to service charge on this last cruise, so far on the past 2 cruises, the service has been mediocre to poor. Will be looking really closely at the service that we get on our cruise in 2 weeks and rating it appropriately.

 

I agree with El Bac who said that the service charge should be based on cabin... I go further than that and say it should be a percentage of price paid for the cruise just like tips... how about 10%????

THat way the ultra rich would be paying their fare share vs someone in a low level inside cabin where the auto tips are almost more than their cruise fare....

 

 

I agree with Wilba who said: "The issue will grow bigger as time goes on. 35 years ago on my first visit to the US, tipping was regarded as 8-10%........then10% became the norm & 15% for 'Good' service. Then It's 15% the norm & 20% for 'Good' service, & so the figures go on 20/25/30%. Where do you draw the line, If there is one to be drawn?"

Exactly. Where do we draw the line? how about 100%??? hmmm, pay 10 bucks for dinner and 10 bucks for the service. Nope, I like tipping those that give EXCELLENT service, not poor service. If I get medium service in a restaurant, I tip perhaps $1.00/pp. If I get EXCELLENT service, I will sometimes tip 20-30% depends on the amount of the bill and the amount of money that I have. If I have a server in a greasy spoon who is gum chewing, cigarette smoking, spends most of her time talking to the trucker at the end stool, yup, I am not going to tip as much as if I am sitting down in a fancy restaurant with a server that takes your order without writing it down, remembers your preferences, has a smile and friendly attitude and goes the extra mile.... now that person gets a really large tip.

 

Ok, now time to post and get flamed as always!!!!

Yes, I am a cheapo.... not because I want to be, but because my paycheck says I have to be....

[JenDalessan]

To answer the OP's question, YES you can get the charge removed from your bill. However, most of us would encourage you not to do that unless there is a problem with your service.

[NickCDN]

Wow some people are really cheap!!!

 

Im going on a cruise expecting to tip extra for really good service. I am a really picky eater and if my requests are met, some lucky wait staff is going to be really happy with me :)

 

Nick

 

PS not odd requests, just having normal non gourmet food in the restuarants (like steak and potatoes)

[zqvol]

Again to answer the OPs original question. IN 2005 NCL changed their policy and according to the contract and the web site you may NOT remove the charge, it is MANDATORY.

[newmexicoNita]

Again to answer the OPs original question. IN 2005 NCL changed their policy and according to the contract and the web site you may NOT remove the charge, it is MANDATORY.

nope, 2005, NCLA changed it to a service charge, just recently NCL started saying manatory, but they also, if you read all the literature, guarantee satisfaction or the tips can be removed. You do need to try everything possible before removing them.

 

Nita

[hawaiilvr]

I can't believe how big of tightwads some of you are! Sheesh! It is American custom to tip those who work in the service industry. This is their incentive to do a good job. The better the job they do, the more they earn. Plain and simple. Waiters here in my home town make $2.70 an hour plus tips. Right or wrong, that's what it is. A crappy waiter will probably make $2.70 per hour, but a good waiter will often make $15 or more an hour simply by working harder and doing a better job. You may not like it and you might be the guy who leaves a note to the restaurant about the evils of tipping after some guy has worked his backside off to make your dinner a pleasant experience.

 

As far as the - they would be eating dirt comment, what a snobbish, self-aggrandizing statement. These people are just that - people, many of whom has families, commitments at home, and obligations just like you. You are not superior to them. In fact, in many ways you are inferior to them! Man, I know some are just trolls looking to stir the pot, but if you don't like to tip, DON'T GO ON VACATION - especially a cruise. Stay at home and count your money. I hope you feel superior to those who serve you!

[mbisson]

I can't believe how big of tightwads some of you are! Sheesh!

 

I only quoted a bit of your post because it's just above mine...but I certainly enjoyed the whole thing!!!

 

I like your screen name as well...we just booked our Hawaii excursions (mainly renting cars in most ports) and are really looking forward to our 1st ever Hawaii cruise in just under 2 month!!!

[mbisson]

You do need to try everything possible before removing them.

 

Nita

 

But I can save quite a bit of money if I just wait until the last night and then have them removed ;) ;) ;) (I hope everyone realizes the smilies mean I'm not serious)

[Nack1]

I have sailed on both NCL and RCCL, and while I don't especially like the $10 auto-gratuity, I do understand it, and I have never removed it on NCL (you don't remove it on RCCL, you just opt in, or elect to use the envelopes when you make your reservation). The freestyle cruising kind of makes it necessary, but my biggest complaint is that I don't like how it stiffs my cabin steward, who if they do a good job, I usually reward handsomely. The last time I went on NCL, it was a 5-day Western cruise, and I knew that of the $50/pp, the cabin steward would probably only get maybe $2/day of that. I left him an extra $30 in addition to the auto-gratuity at the end of the cruise.

 

I agree that the envelope system (as used on RCCL) allows the customer a lot more flexibility in rewarding individual exceptional crew members, but once again, that works because they do not have freestyle cruising. RCCL gives you the option of passing it out yourself or prepaying it and getting vouchers for the crew members. I elected to pass it out myself, and ended up passing out significantly more than the "prepaid gratuities" amount that I was offered. The last time I went on RCCL (a 4-day Bahamas cruise), demonstrated to me why this (in all situations except freestyle) greater control over my tipping is desirable. The head waiter made a friend I was with very uncomfortable, and the waiter was mediocre, but the assistant waiter was extremely helpful, and very friendly. The head waiter who groped my friend got $0, the waiter who took the orders and only screwed one of them up got $5, the assistant waiter who made everything really nice at dinner and fixed the waiter's mistakes got $20, and the cabin steward, who kept my room spotless, made sure that I always had fresh ice IN the room, not just in a cooler in the hall, made lots of towel animals, gave me extra mints because I mentioned I liked them, provided turn-down service faithfully every night while always replacing my towels with fresh ones, fixed the shower curtain I broke without my even having to ask and without telling me about it, and kept my bathroom completely spotless through the whole cruise, got $40. I passed out $65 (plus probably that much again in tips to my two favorite bartenders) instead of the recommended $40 total, but I passed it out to those who EARNED it.

 

Yes, I realize why this will not work on NCL, and I do like freestyle cruising, and will said NCL again, and will pay the auto-gratuity of $10/day (and probably still leave the cabin steward something extra if the service is good), but I do see the point of those who may somewhat resent the auto-gratuity. Personally, if I am on vacation, I have bigger and more important things to worry about than the disbursement of $10-$20/day. If they make it hard to do because of the cruise format (and again I do like freestyle), letting the cruise line figure it out is ok I suppose, even though I would rather do it myself if it was easy and practical to do.

 

If someone really pisses me off, I'll report them (unless I can deal with it in a tip - lol, the cruise format probably saved the head waiter's job), and if someone really makes my cruise more wonderful, I will report that too. I recognized two crew members by name on my last NCL cruise for exceptional service, and I recognized two bartenders on my last RCCL cruise by name for the same. I did not report the bad head waiter on RCCL, I just stiffed him, and gave 160% of the recommended prepaid gratuity to other more deserving crew members, since the cruise format made that practical due to it not being freestyle cruising. Whether they turned it in or not, is up to them. I know within reason that the assistant waiter didn't turn in his $20 because I saw him looking around after I VERY discretely handed it to him as he set down my third cup of coffee with dessert ("Here is another cup of coffee, sir), prepared just the way I liked it, which he remembered correctly every night since the first day of the cruise. I hope he got to keep it!

[johnnyboz]

they throw people off these ships like its an olympic sport and Im supposed to tip them after that. Im tying myself to my bed at night just so there are no unfortuante accidents where Im not bouncing off a life boat in the middle of the night

[cruznut1111]

they throw people off these ships like its an olympic sport

 

Only the lousy tippers:D

[cruise4kicks]

they throw people off these ships like its an olympic sport and Im supposed to tip them after that. Im tying myself to my bed at night just so there are no unfortuante accidents where Im not bouncing off a life boat in the middle of the night

Only the lousy tippers:D

Where can I buy tickets for this event? I'd pay good money for that! :D

[salty dingo]

Again to answer the OPs original question. IN 2005 NCL changed their policy and according to the contract and the web site you may NOT remove the charge, it is MANDATORY.

 

It SHOULD be mandatory... I'm not sure if it actually is possible to remove them, but it SHOULD NOT be allowed. Hey, if they let you remove tips, why not just refund the entire fare too, while you're at it. I mean, if you don't feel like you got value for your money, why not get a money back guarantee, right? :rolleyes:

 

Look, everyone, you KNEW about the $10 per day when you BOOKED THE CRUISE! (If not, then it's not NCL's fault you weren't told - it is no secret.) This is part of the cost of a cruise. Just like the fare, the taxes, the port charges, etc. Just another fee to consider.

 

When planning a cruise, do you factor in the cost of airfare (or gas and parking?) Of course you do. Just factor in the tips and you can deal with it when you are deciding whether to take that vacation as a cruise or not.

 

One last thing - tips at the end of a cruise have been going on as long as there have been cruises. This mandatory service charge is nothing new, or different, it is just a way to deal with those cheapskates keep those who feel so strongly about a hundred dollars or two that they would keep it in their pocket rather than putting it where it belongs.

 

Selfish people exist, and no policy will change them. We just hope the policy with extract money from them! :D

[johnnyboz]

since you r so free with your money maybe you can pay my tips for me

Where can I buy tickets for this event? I'd pay good money for that! :D

[cruznut1111]

since you r so free with your money maybe you can pay my tips for me

 

 

Thirty-five cruises in an inside cabin? Sounds like you've been kept in the dark way too long! You could have done 34 and paid your own tips.:p