Save the QE2 synagogue?

[pb82]

I have no idea what their plans may be, but should the new owners be uninterested in maintaining the QE2 synagogue, I wonder if it could be removed before the ship reaches Dubai and recreated on the QM2. As Matthew has pointed out on another thread, it is the only completely original space on the ship.

 

Paul

[3rdGenCunarder]

I have no idea what their plans may be, but should the new owners be uninterested in maintaining the QE2 synagogue, I wonder if it could be removed before the ship reaches Dubai and recreated on the QM2. As Matthew has pointed out on another thread, it is the only completely original space on the ship.

 

Paul

 

Oh, gosh, never even thought about that--how likely is Dubai to want a synagogue. And if they decommission it-is there a special ritual to do that? I am not being smartalecky here. I think there are special ceremonies for the beginning and ending of a church's "life," and I would expect a synagogue to have something along those lines, too.

 

Kathy

[exlondoner]

I think Dubai is a pretty tolerant society. (A lesson to us all)

 

Surely they would not want to ditch the only original bit of the ship?

 

Jane

[Kindlychap]

I think Dubai is a pretty tolerant society. (A lesson to us all)

 

Surely they would not want to ditch the only original bit of the ship?

 

Jane

 

It depends on their plans for Three Deck.

 

I think there is a very strong argument for Cunard to request it back - if they don't want it - rather than being left in a skip somewhere.

 

Whilst it would clearly belong to them, I'd hope that it is either preserved as it is (which would be the correct option) or transferred root and branch to the Queen Mary 2.

 

I rather like the idea of the Cunard flagship being the posessor of the only synagogue at sea.

 

Matthew

[stowaway2k]

On the Queen Mary and the Queen Elizabeth, they were known as "Scroll Rooms" rather than Synagogues, such as on QE2.

I havn't read anything regarding any sort of "deconsecration" of them when the ships were retired from service.

 

For QE2's synagogue, Dubai couldn't do much worse than Long Beach did with Queen Mary's Scroll Room, which is now just a storage closet.

http://www.jewishsightseeing.com/usa/california/los_angeles_region/long_beach/sd12-24_the_kosher_oueen.htm

 

QE2 Synagogue

 

 

QE2 Synagogue, Prayer for the Royal Family (both QM and QE had similar)

[DaddyWarbucks]

I think Dubai is a pretty tolerant society. (A lesson to us all)

 

Surely they would not want to ditch the only original bit of the ship?

 

Jane

 

Considering that one cannot enter Dubai with an Israeli passport or even an Israeli stamp on ones passport, makes it difficult to see them as tolerant. The Torah scroll and all the prayer books should be returned to the British Synagogues from which they came. As far as preserving the only original bit of the ship; I think that means little to the purchasers. Those of us who have traveled with her many times over the years will moan at the wholesale gutting of the QE2 that will inevitably occur.:mad:

[Cruachan]

On the Queen Mary and the Queen Elizabeth, they were known as "Scroll Rooms" rather than Synagogues, such as on QE2. I havn't read anything regarding any sort of "deconsecration" of them when the ships were retired from service.

 

Kyle,

 

nice photos of the synagogue. I now very much regret not having taken some myself as I will now never have another opportunity to do so. I walked past many times but always felt that it would be too intrusive were I to go in there with the sole intention of taking photographs. Im not sure why I felt like that as I've taken many photos of the interiors of churches and other places of worship on land. I too hope that the synagogue can be preserved, either on the QE2, on QM2, or if necessary on land.

 

Jimmy

[SeaMatesNYC]

Considering that one cannot enter Dubai with an Israeli passport or even an Israeli stamp on ones passport, makes it difficult to see them as tolerant. The Torah scroll and all the prayer books should be returned to the British Synagogues from which they came. As far as preserving the only original bit of the ship; I think that means little to the purchasers. Those of us who have traveled with her many times over the years will moan at the wholesale gutting of the QE2 that will inevitably occur.:mad:

 

Certainly, prior to the final voyage to Dubai, Cunard should arrange with a London temple to come and perform final services culminating in a formal removal of the Torah scrolls...it would be a matter of respect.

[bobby1119]

The QE2 synagogue is, indeed, a very special place of great religious and maritime significance. Kyle's photos do it justice.

 

I agree with Kindlychap Matthew that it should go to Queen Mary if it is not preserved as it is. Although I am not Jewish, I often stopped in for quiet meditation and inspiration during last year's world cruise. It was just around the corner from my cabin (3040).

[stowaway2k]

it should go to Queen Mary if it is not preserved as it is.

 

Interestingly, Cunard considered transfering Queen Mary's to QE2, but the designer of QE2's felt that Queen Mary's was "not in keeping with modern trends in the Jewish faith".

[DaddyWarbucks]

Interestingly, Cunard considered transfering Queen Mary's to QE2, but the designer of QE2's felt that Queen Mary's was "not in keeping with modern trends in the Jewish faith".

 

 

Other than the pews, most of the Synagogue is really wood paneling as you can see from the photos. There is not much you can transfer to another ship. Moreover, the newer Queens hold more passengers, I would think a larger room would be required, probably holding 50 people. The current one is jammed with 25.

 

Perhaps it's existence is a reflection of Cunard during the time of British ownership which is lacking today. Nowadays, every public room needs to be a profit center.

[pb82]

Other than the pews, most of the Synagogue is really wood paneling as you can see from the photos. There is not much you can transfer to another ship. Moreover, the newer Queens hold more passengers, I would think a larger room would be required, probably holding 50 people. The current one is jammed with 25.

 

Perhaps it's existence is a reflection of Cunard during the time of British ownership which is lacking today. Nowadays, every public room needs to be a profit center.

Yes, but the point is that you will be transferring something that has been a part of the QE2 since her launch. Such a transfer seems to me to be a win-win for both Dubai and Cunard.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Certainly, prior to the final voyage to Dubai, Cunard should arrange with a London temple to come and perform final services culminating in a formal removal of the Torah scrolls...it would be a matter of respect.

 

You've answered my question. If the synagogue on QE2 will no longer serve that purpose, then the Torah scrolls should be removed before delivery to Dubai. If DaddyWarbucks is right about the passport thing, having a rabbi take posession of the scrolls in Dubai might be a problem. I think they should go to a temple in Southampton.

 

Kathy

[bob brown]

I wonder what Israeli-born Ted Arison would think of his son's selling the QE2 to Dubai, if he were alive today?:(

[Kindlychap]

Yes, but the point is that you will be transferring something that has been a part of the QE2 since her launch. Such a transfer seems to me to be a win-win for both Dubai and Cunard.

 

As is well known on these boards, I am an atheist.

 

Equally, I believe strongly that religious buildings are often worthy of preservation for reasons other than simply being a box to hold a service.

 

Anyone who has been in York Minster, Abu Simbel or The Parthenon will know exactly what I mean - and it wouldn't be difficult to add a lot more.

 

I'd like to think that the synagogue would be preserved properly on the Queen Elizabeth 2. But, if Dubai don't want it, lets have it back (as DaddyWarbucks says it is mainly wood cladding) and put it on Queen Mary 2. It must be worth the loss of a couple of inside cabins. Not just as a facility (which may well be too small) but as a stop on the history trail AND a facility for the Jewish.

 

And as a tie in to the past Queens. I'm almost of the view that this is the most important part.

 

But - and this is important - it is up to Dubai now. It will belong to them by December. Any return would be a sale or a gift.....

 

Matthew

[ikelmay]

I wonder what Israeli-born Ted Arison would think of his son's selling the QE2 to Dubai, if he were alive today?:(

 

Probably give him a round of applause - you don't build up an empire without having to make decisions from a commercial perspective.

 

Personally, it would be a nice gesture by Cunard to relocate the room. Somehow I don't think it will be given the respect it deserves in Dubai.

[squirrelgardens]

Thank you for remembering the QE2 synagogue. Long gone are days of the Kosher kitchen on the dear lady too.

 

Interested in the final outcome of this story. Spent Hannukah of 1995 on her. We did attend a service the first night on the seagoing shul.

[RAL72]

The synagogue was largely removed in October, but when i visited in August, it was untouched and a special, special space to be in, no matter how small.

 

[Finch]

I understand that a Rabbi in England got the scrolls and all pertinant items. Nothing there now but the woodwork.

[cunardqueen]

Must admit, l found it a nice place, just to pop into and think for a few moments, besides it being lovely and cool.

And if you timed it right they gave you a drink as well:rolleyes:

[gometros]

I found this discussion fascinating, as I had no idea that any cruise ship/ocean liner had a synagogue. Does the QM2 have a similar space, or was it only the QE2 and QM that had it?

[gometros]

This discussion piqued my interest, so in poking around Google a bit, I found this discussion thred on another cruise board:

 

http://www dot travelserver dot net/travelpage/ubb-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=004606

 

From Wikipedia, which referenced above thread:

By the time of her retirement, the Synagogue was the only room that had remained unaltered since 1969. However it was reported that during QE2's 22 October 5-night voyage, the Synagogue was carefully dismantled before being removed from the ship prior to her final sailing to Dubai.

[cunard1936]

Boy, this makes me thankful I got to see the ship on her last call to Los Angeles (30 March 2008) before becoming like the QUEEN MARY in Long Beach...didn't get to see the Synagogue though for some reason. This thread makes me wish I did.

 

Yeah, they say they're gonna preserve her with little changes, but just look what they did to QM in Long Beach...all we gotta do is hope for the best.

 

Lucky, those who got to sail on the QE2. I've ALWAYS wanted to do that...but I can't complain at least going aboard the ship while still a sailing vessel :cool:

[safarigal]

Boy, this makes me thankful I got to see the ship on her last call to Los Angeles (30 March 2008) before becoming like the QUEEN MARY in Long Beach...didn't get to see the Synagogue though for some reason. This thread makes me wish I did.

 

Yeah, they say they're gonna preserve her with little changes, but just look what they did to QM in Long Beach...all we gotta do is hope for the best.

 

Lucky, those who got to sail on the QE2. I've ALWAYS wanted to do that...but I can't complain at least going aboard the ship while still a sailing vessel :cool:

 

I'm sorry you missed sailing on the QE2. She really was quite wonderful, but I'm glad you did at least see her when you did. I have a couple of photos of the synagogue taken on the QE2 during October 2008

 

http://gallery.me.com/lesleyblake#100311&bgcolor=black&view=grid

 

while we were on her for the final westbound crossing.