Poll: Roatan Zip-Line Tragedy

[wisconsincruisers]

As everyone agrees, this is a horrible horrible tragedy. My heart goes out to the family of this woman. I couldn't imagine such a thing happening.

 

In regards to ziplining, my husband and I happened to be on the same cruise as this woman. Two days after our Roatan stop we headed to Belize where we ziplined there (on an independent tour...not via NCL). It wasn't until after we finished the zipline that we heard about the tragedy of the woman from our ship. Had I known about this before we zip-lined....I may have not been able to go through with the excursion. However, I guess I never really thought about zip-lining as being a "high risk sport." Even though I was unaware that a woman had lost her life doing the same sport 2 days before, I felt completely safe on the excursion. I didn't think anything of it, just as I don't think anything of getting in my car everyday and driving to work even though someone probably lost their life driving to work that very same day.

 

The point is, this was a tragedy. No one is to blame and we shouldn't focus on trying to blame someone. We just have to remember that every second of life is precious and to live it to it's fullest. We don't have to be a dare-devil, but enjoying opportunities as they present themselves is a must.

 

On a side note. Did any one hear of the 3 passengers who were taken hostage the week before in Guatemala? This was our 2nd cruise to the Western Caribbean. To be honest, I think I sometimes forgot that we were in 3rd world countries. Yes, stops such as Roatan, Guatemala etc. are becoming more and more popular, but that doesn't mean we should let our guard down.

 

Live well, be responsible.

[Firefighterhoop]

There is ALWAYS a risk when participating in an activity like this. Plus being out of the USA, safety inspections, that we take for granted may not be required.

 

Would I do a zip-line? if the price was right, yes.

[California Native]

any thing lke this has the potential of danger. A friend was on a Mexico cruise and went para-sailing. They brought her down too fast and she broke her leg in several places. She had to fly home and had several operations. The driver of the boat left her on the beach and would not even get help.

[eblebl]

Dear Readers,

 

Having been in the adventure industry for 25 years now and having installed over 400 zip lines and being the first installer of tours in the United States, I am deeply sadden by the news of this accident. My heartfelt prayers go out to the family.

 

As folks discuss what is right or wrong, safe or not safe, it is fair to say that not all tours are installed or operated equally. I read a comment in this thread that a guide on a Kauai operation brushed off the fact they only needed a single cable. I truly wish the guide would have taken a more professional approach to the question. 1 cable is actually 5 times stronger than 2 ropes.

 

In this industry, the words "cable", "rope", "wire rope" are loosly used and seem to have the same meaning. Actually, they are VASTLY different. All of our systems are engineered and wet stamped by TWO professionally licsenced and insured engineers, plus we carry our own insurance. Most of the courses in Costa Rica and Internationally, are a plastic covered rope rated between 5,000 - 7,000 pounds at best. With number that low, I would even desire a third rope. In the US, a "cable" or "wire rope" on lines longer than 400 feet, require 1/2" diameter materials rated to at least 26,600 pounds. From there, there is an engineered woorking load limit ration of 1:5, so cables rated this strong will still never see loads greater than around 5,000 pounds. There is some more calculations that go into this figure, but this is a rough description note, not a engineer report.

 

In the United States, the Professional Ropes Course Assocaition (PRCA) has sent industry standards since May 2004 for this activity. While it may be a breach of rules here, I think in the spirit of education, it may be fine to post the website link : www.prcainfo.org

 

Also, for educational information purposes, travelr can become more educated on what to ask, bring, or do by visiting www.eblcanopytours.com Here you will find information about US based tours, specifications, and Traveler Tips to help you plan for your tour.

 

This is an industry growing FASTER than commercial operators can build the tours. As much as I would like to think all tours are equal, they just are not. When I see pictures of ropes lashed to trees, non-locking carabiners used for safety hook-ins, no helmets, no standards for harnesses, attachements, lanyard strength, hand braking, and all the YouTube video's, I am fearful that this will not be the last accident.

 

In the US, ANSI, OSHA, NFPA, CI, PRCA, and many other agencies regulate "fall protection systems" by which a zip line would fall into this area. EVERYTHING must be designed and engineered by a qualified person to determine what is or is not appropriate. The PRCA, as mentioned above, is closing on a 2 year process of having its standards for the canopy tour industry becoming the ANSI American National Standard, by which then many other countries will adopt. We are moving as fast as we can, but want to produce quality as well.

 

So, I would caution folks not to make too many "knee jerk" statements, but also do you homework and understand what you are signing up to do for any activity.

 

If anyone would like to contact me off-list for more information, please do so.

 

Regards,

Steve

steve@ebl.org

www.ebl.org

www.eblcanopytours.com

[Cuizer2]

Dear Readers,

 

Having been in the adventure industry for 25 years now and having installed over 400 zip lines and being the first installer of tours in the United States, I am deeply sadden by the news of this accident. My heartfelt prayers go out to the family.

 

As folks discuss what is right or wrong, safe or not safe, it is fair to say that not all tours are installed or operated equally. I read a comment in this thread that a guide on a Kauai operation brushed off the fact they only needed a single cable. I truly wish the guide would have taken a more professional approach to the question. 1 cable is actually 5 times stronger than 2 ropes.

 

In this industry, the words "cable", "rope", "wire rope" are loosly used and seem to have the same meaning. Actually, they are VASTLY different. All of our systems are engineered and wet stamped by TWO professionally licsenced and insured engineers, plus we carry our own insurance. Most of the courses in Costa Rica and Internationally, are a plastic covered rope rated between 5,000 - 7,000 pounds at best. With number that low, I would even desire a third rope. In the US, a "cable" or "wire rope" on lines longer than 400 feet, require 1/2" diameter materials rated to at least 26,600 pounds. From there, there is an engineered woorking load limit ration of 1:5, so cables rated this strong will still never see loads greater than around 5,000 pounds. There is some more calculations that go into this figure, but this is a rough description note, not a engineer report.

 

In the United States, the Professional Ropes Course Assocaition (PRCA) has sent industry standards since May 2004 for this activity. While it may be a breach of rules here, I think in the spirit of education, it may be fine to post the website link : www.prcainfo.org

 

Also, for educational information purposes, travelr can become more educated on what to ask, bring, or do by visiting www.eblcanopytours.com Here you will find information about US based tours, specifications, and Traveler Tips to help you plan for your tour.

 

This is an industry growing FASTER than commercial operators can build the tours. As much as I would like to think all tours are equal, they just are not. When I see pictures of ropes lashed to trees, non-locking carabiners used for safety hook-ins, no helmets, no standards for harnesses, attachements, lanyard strength, hand braking, and all the YouTube video's, I am fearful that this will not be the last accident.

 

In the US, ANSI, OSHA, NFPA, CI, PRCA, and many other agencies regulate "fall protection systems" by which a zip line would fall into this area. EVERYTHING must be designed and engineered by a qualified person to determine what is or is not appropriate. The PRCA, as mentioned above, is closing on a 2 year process of having its standards for the canopy tour industry becoming the ANSI American National Standard, by which then many other countries will adopt. We are moving as fast as we can, but want to produce quality as well.

 

So, I would caution folks not to make too many "knee jerk" statements, but also do you homework and understand what you are signing up to do for any activity.

 

If anyone would like to contact me off-list for more information, please do so.

 

Regards,

Steve

steve@ebl.org

www.ebl.org

www.eblcanopytours.com

 

I want to thank you for your post. I quality post in my opinion. However, I would suggest that the phrase I highlighted in red would not be the best phrase to use under the circumstances. Perhaps saying, "... which is the classification for a zip line adventure" would be a better choice of words.

 

Further, I have a couple of questions for you. You mention that a single cable is five times stronger than two ropes. While I agree with this, a single cable is still just that, a single cable. I would think that a dual cable system would be safer, since both would have to fail to result in a fall. You don't say what is the requirement in the United States (though you list many of the regulating agencies). So ...

 

Question one - what is the requirement in the United States? Is a single cable okay, or does it have to be a dual cable system?

 

Question two - given the strength of the cable (whether it be 6,000 pounds or 26,000 pounds) what is the reason for the weight limit (since clearly even a 400 pound person would be less than 10% of even the lower cable's rating)?

[eblebl]

Good comments and questions. I will do my best to answer, but knowing the information that circulates around this topic comes from about 25 sources, thousands of pages of documents, history in cross and closely related fields, break testing, and 25 years of experience.

 

First, the words highlighted "fall protection systems" addresses more than just the cable. "System" accounts for all the gear; lanyards, helmet, carabiner type and operation, load drap of the cable when under use, clamp termination, and so forth. I don't desire to turn this into a "how to post" so I will stop here. Also, ANSI and OSHA have regulations for cantenary lines for rigging personel in high rises and building structures. Window washers have standards; tree climbers have standards, etc. All of which have applicable standards and lessons for the canopy tour industry. It is professional and prudent ot examine these standards for lessons and safer practices.

 

So, the cross related standards plus the current standards for ropes challenge courses call for 5,000 pound pulleys, harnesses, lanyards, UIAA approved helmets, etc. NFPA for example, calls for pulleys to be 9,000 punds if used for commercial applications, up from personal use pulleys of 5,000 pounds. The application of the material and use must be considered to determine what is or is not appropriate.

 

Now, is one cable "wire rope" better or safer than two wire ropes? Or the other way around? Depends on how they are attached and installed. I have seen two wire ropes installed and there is nothing really gained. Except, you have twice the gear to manage and you increase the potential for human error by two fold. My belief is "less is more" when it comes to the amount of gear a guide has to manage. Keep in mind this guide might see 400 persons a day. Keeping systems simple and to the point is a key step in avoiding confusion. Speed in guide clip-ins can be bad. Slow down, double check what is going on, and check your ego's at the door. Everyone is responsible for safety, in my opinion and anyone can make a mistake.

 

While single wire rope zip lines may appear to only be "one" cable, they are actually flexible and are comprised of up to 32 micro wires, wound into 7 strands (32 micros wires times 7= 224 micro wires), wound into one wire rope (26,600 pounds for an average grade of steel. Higher grades of steel wire rope can get upwards of 29,000 pounds). Larger diameter wire ropes carry higher strengths yet. Per foot of wire rope, you are allowed to have up to 10 (I think) micro wire breaks over different strands, or 5 within one strand. (I'm a little fuzzy here as it has been some time since I last read the rigging retirment code for wire rope by ANSI. Plus, wire breaks are just one indicator; rust, ovalling shape, material loss, and other factors play into the issue of retirement.)

 

All this mentioned, the retirment imposed for a life line such as a zip line fall protection system, even one micro wire break of any strand, is cause for retirement, along with pitted rust, loss in diamter, oval shaping, etc. Having done destructive testing of our systems that have broken micro wires (filaments), 10 broken ones still rates almost the wire rope strength rating. Please note, we took this cable out of service on the spot and it had seen some 8,000 people in about 3 months time.

 

I do not wish to make light of the situation, but think of it like kayaking. If one life jacket is US Coast Guard Approved and required, then would wearing two life jackets be better and safer? Or just be in the way to cause additional issues? At ski resorts, how many people ski and snow board each year? How many cables make up the chair lift? One. AND, it is engineered and properly inspected and replaced as needed. In the TRAM industry, this is also done to a ration of 3:1 safety factor. Again, canopy tours in the US and the PRCA standards call for 5:1 safety margins. www.prcainfo.org

 

Lastly, I think your final question was about a 400 pound person. OSHA requires for up-graded equipment once a person exceeds 310 pounds. Many tours have weight ranges not so much for load issues, but to make sure they transport across the wire rope in a controlled and predictable fashion. A 50 pound person might come up way short of the termination due to window resistance, but a 290 pound person could come in much faster. Also, the weight of the person determines how much the wire rope will or will not flex up or down; and a host of other reasons too. Women and men cary their weight differently, causing different centers of gravity. So, oftne, larger people are in a chest harness for additional upper body support. All tour participants should always remain upright while zipping and not flip up side down. Nothing is more challengeing than hanging up side down for 20 minuets with your shoe lace caught in the pulley or arriving at the plateform with a stuck shoe lace, way too fast, because you couldn't slow yourself down with the required hand brake practice.

 

I cannot stress enough proper managent and wire rope inspection. Our tours are looked at four times per year until a working history is established. Then, inspections happen more or less frequently depending upon common wear and tear issues. Some operators may do more frequent builder inspections. However, guides should do a daily visual, a monthly planned and documented inspection, followed by the insured builder doing the quaretly inspections until the wear and tear patterns foreach wire rope are determined.

 

I truly hope this information is helpful to all readers as they determine the amount of risk, perceived or actual, they are willing to take on.

 

Sincerely

Steve

www.ebl.org

www.eblcanopytours.com

[mbardsley]

Dear Readers,

 

Having been in the adventure industry for 25 years now and having installed over 400 zip lines and being the first installer of tours in the United States, I am deeply sadden by the news of this accident. My heartfelt prayers go out to the family.

 

As folks discuss what is right or wrong, safe or not safe, it is fair to say that not all tours are installed or operated equally. I read a comment in this thread that a guide on a Kauai operation brushed off the fact they only needed a single cable. I truly wish the guide would have taken a more professional approach to the question. 1 cable is actually 5 times stronger than 2 ropes.

 

In this industry, the words "cable", "rope", "wire rope" are loosly used and seem to have the same meaning. Actually, they are VASTLY different. All of our systems are engineered and wet stamped by TWO professionally licsenced and insured engineers, plus we carry our own insurance. Most of the courses in Costa Rica and Internationally, are a plastic covered rope rated between 5,000 - 7,000 pounds at best. With number that low, I would even desire a third rope. In the US, a "cable" or "wire rope" on lines longer than 400 feet, require 1/2" diameter materials rated to at least 26,600 pounds. From there, there is an engineered woorking load limit ration of 1:5, so cables rated this strong will still never see loads greater than around 5,000 pounds. There is some more calculations that go into this figure, but this is a rough description note, not a engineer report.

 

In the United States, the Professional Ropes Course Assocaition (PRCA) has sent industry standards since May 2004 for this activity. While it may be a breach of rules here, I think in the spirit of education, it may be fine to post the website link : www.prcainfo.org

 

Also, for educational information purposes, travelr can become more educated on what to ask, bring, or do by visiting www.eblcanopytours.com Here you will find information about US based tours, specifications, and Traveler Tips to help you plan for your tour.

 

This is an industry growing FASTER than commercial operators can build the tours. As much as I would like to think all tours are equal, they just are not. When I see pictures of ropes lashed to trees, non-locking carabiners used for safety hook-ins, no helmets, no standards for harnesses, attachements, lanyard strength, hand braking, and all the YouTube video's, I am fearful that this will not be the last accident.

 

In the US, ANSI, OSHA, NFPA, CI, PRCA, and many other agencies regulate "fall protection systems" by which a zip line would fall into this area. EVERYTHING must be designed and engineered by a qualified person to determine what is or is not appropriate. The PRCA, as mentioned above, is closing on a 2 year process of having its standards for the canopy tour industry becoming the ANSI American National Standard, by which then many other countries will adopt. We are moving as fast as we can, but want to produce quality as well.

 

So, I would caution folks not to make too many "knee jerk" statements, but also do you homework and understand what you are signing up to do for any activity.

 

If anyone would like to contact me off-list for more information, please do so.

 

Regards,

Steve

steve@ebl.org

www.ebl.org

www.eblcanopytours.com

 

 

Thank you, I agree, and if it was not for my all the people that were doing it with me and not looking like a fool (or chicken, lol) I would not have done the zip line do to the safety equipment (bring my own next time, lol) especially non-locking carabiners. I just hope that people will learn from this families terrible ordeal, and help police the tour operators more. If it was in the USA, or a territory, would not be an issue. Just for your info, there cables wire metal, uncoated with a single crimp style connector, looping around the trees.

[eblebl]

"Just for your info, there cables wire metal, uncoated with a single crimp style connector, looping around the trees."

 

This helps me get a certain level of understanding, but not a complete picture. Please know that in the US, on a crimp style termination, which may be numerous methods, most commonly a copper ferrule, two are required, not just one as they can slip and fail. This would also suggest to me, perhaps incorrectly, that a 3/8 inch wire rope was use, and is rated to roughly 14,400 pounds. 5:1 safety factor and termination stlye, drops you down to about 2,300 working load limit. Now, line tension, length, person weight, can have a mathmatical applifcation from the middle of a 250 pound person to 2,000 pounds to the ends or more. Add the guide going out for a retrieval, and now you could be 4,000 pounds plus in tension. Add cable fatigue, poor inspections, or a whole host of other factors and you get into a poor situation quickly.

 

I am not suggesting this is what happened in this case because I have NO idea of even perhaps 5% of all the variables at play. I'm only thinking out loud to help educate.

 

Again, my heartfelt prayers go out to the family for their loss.

 

Regards,

Steve

www.ebl.org

www.eblcanopytours.com

[MWC]

I was on the Guambalimba (sp?) zipline from a Carnival cruise in December. The operation AS DESIGNED looked safe. However, after 2 legs of the adventure, the operators stopped using the safety backup line, instead hooking the safety connection to the main cable. I questioned this and was brushed off. After two of what I considered unsafe "legs" (and difficulty in controlling speed because of wear grooves in the gloves provided), I felt uncomfortable enough that I wanted OFF. I was escorted by a staff member down the zipline, thus doubling the weight on that main cable. Very scary....

 

I notified Carnival IN WRITING of my safety concerns through written comments on the cruise line feed back form. How tragic that a woman died from unsafe operation observed by myself and others who have written on this forum.

[adventureman49]

Until we have some facts here, it is really not possible to make a judgement about this "accident." So far all we have are some unconfirmed reports and an indication that an investigation will be taking place. We don't event know what "failed" on this tour: the harness, a zip wire, a zip wire termination, what?

[DizzyDallasDi]

I am that person whose life will be ended with a magarita in one hand, a cigarette in the other, a huge smile on my face and screaming "WOW... What a Ride!!"

 

I have an incredible zest for life and adventure and will do darn near anything I want. I went scuba diving (60 ft.) the first time with only a 15 minute lesson in a 4 ft. pool; I was 53 when I took my first skydive and I took my son with me -- we both LOVED it; I was 55 when I went whitewater rafting for the first time and heaven forbid I do level 1 or 2...hell no, I'd never been before so I chose the level 3-4 rapids -- I got ejected in a level 4 rapid and almost drowned but I'd do it again in a heartbeat (man, that was FUN!) and the way I figure it, I got more thrills for my money that the rest of the folks in my raft. I've jumped off of bridges into rivers, snowmobiled, and done a slew of other things "just for thrills." Most of these have been in my 40's and 50's. Call me crazy, and a lot of people have, but I don't believe in sitting back and watching life from the sidelines.

 

I would love to try ziplining and probably will before my life is over. As so many of you have said, daily life is a risk. I'm more scared during my work commute in Dallas traffic than I have ever been doing any of the "crazy" fun things. Life is short...let's live it to the fullest until the Good Lord calls us home.

[Cuizer2]

I went scuba diving (60 ft.) the first time with only a 15 minute lesson in a 4 ft. pool;

How did you get to 60 feet in a four foot pool?

[Mar-Don]

Dear Readers,

 

Having been in the adventure industry for 25 years now and having installed over 400 zip lines and being the first installer of tours in the United States, I am deeply sadden by the news of this accident. My heartfelt prayers go out to the family.

 

As folks discuss what is right or wrong, safe or not safe, it is fair to say that not all tours are installed or operated equally. I read a comment in this thread that a guide on a Kauai operation brushed off the fact they only needed a single cable. I truly wish the guide would have taken a more professional approach to the question. 1 cable is actually 5 times stronger than 2 ropes.

 

In this industry, the words "cable", "rope", "wire rope" are loosly used and seem to have the same meaning. Actually, they are VASTLY different. All of our systems are engineered and wet stamped by TWO professionally licsenced and insured engineers, plus we carry our own insurance. Most of the courses in Costa Rica and Internationally, are a plastic covered rope rated between 5,000 - 7,000 pounds at best. With number that low, I would even desire a third rope. In the US, a "cable" or "wire rope" on lines longer than 400 feet, require 1/2" diameter materials rated to at least 26,600 pounds. From there, there is an engineered woorking load limit ration of 1:5, so cables rated this strong will still never see loads greater than around 5,000 pounds. There is some more calculations that go into this figure, but this is a rough description note, not a engineer report.

 

In the United States, the Professional Ropes Course Assocaition (PRCA) has sent industry standards since May 2004 for this activity. While it may be a breach of rules here, I think in the spirit of education, it may be fine to post the website link : www.prcainfo.org

 

Also, for educational information purposes, travelr can become more educated on what to ask, bring, or do by visiting www.eblcanopytours.com Here you will find information about US based tours, specifications, and Traveler Tips to help you plan for your tour.

 

This is an industry growing FASTER than commercial operators can build the tours. As much as I would like to think all tours are equal, they just are not. When I see pictures of ropes lashed to trees, non-locking carabiners used for safety hook-ins, no helmets, no standards for harnesses, attachements, lanyard strength, hand braking, and all the YouTube video's, I am fearful that this will not be the last accident.

 

In the US, ANSI, OSHA, NFPA, CI, PRCA, and many other agencies regulate "fall protection systems" by which a zip line would fall into this area. EVERYTHING must be designed and engineered by a qualified person to determine what is or is not appropriate. The PRCA, as mentioned above, is closing on a 2 year process of having its standards for the canopy tour industry becoming the ANSI American National Standard, by which then many other countries will adopt. We are moving as fast as we can, but want to produce quality as well.

 

So, I would caution folks not to make too many "knee jerk" statements, but also do you homework and understand what you are signing up to do for any activity.

 

If anyone would like to contact me off-list for more information, please do so.

 

Regards,

Steve

steve@ebl.org

www.ebl.org

www.eblcanopytours.com

eblebl

I'm not sure you completely understand the 2 cable system. It is not 2 cables that you hang on. You hang on the main cable and the 2nd cable is parallel to, and 1-2 feet away from the cable on which you are riding. There is a safety strap that is connected to a d-ring on the back of your harness and the safety strap clips to the 2nd cable and just slides along loosely. If the cable you are riding on fails for some reason the 2nd parallel will hopefully catch you and prevent you from hitting the ground.

[Carnac767]

How did you get to 60 feet in a four foot pool?

ROTFLMAO. Now that's funny :) .

[DizzyDallasDi]

How did you get to 60 feet in a four foot pool?

 

The 15 minute lesson was in a 4 ft. pool. The dive was 60 ft. down in the ocean. You're too funny!:D

[232271]

I was on that ship last year, and posted a review of that cruise. In it i did complain about the lack of safety on the zip-lines. I was a trained climber in my younger days, so know alot about the equipment, the harness is very secure, with proper safety. The problem is the tour operators not folowing basic safety protocols. I had about 30% of my zip stations that I was not hooked to the safety line, but my safety gear was hooked to the main line, WOW, does that make sense. If the main line had failed, i would be lost, just like this poor lady.

 

But all this is operated outside of the US, with who knows what kind of safety, and inspection laws, if any. But i sure would believe, the main line snapped, and she had her safety line hooked to the main line.

 

I totally agree with you on this one. We did this tour June 2007 and thougt it was odd the way they hooked the safety line up....we questioned it and they laughed it off saying it wouldnt matter anyway. Well it did matter to someone! An innocent person lost their life. I know it was an "accident" but it was caused by something that might have been prevented IF the people really took time and did their job's correctly.

[Cruiser42]

In March 2005, I took the NCL excursion Tabyana Beach & Canopy Tour in Roatan. The tour operators took their time - which is saying something because there were about 30 of us, and it took a long time to get our harness, helmet, and gloves on. They made sure we had fun, while stressing the safety guidelines. At no time were 2 people on the line -- it was strictly one at a time. If a participant got stuck, the operators would talk them to the platform, but did not leave their post to retrieve them. The platform before would not release the next person until they got the word it was clear. At each post, they held you while unhooking you from both lines - and I was always hooked on both lines. Never did they deviate from this. I felt VERY safe and had a BLAST.

My 74 year old mother wants to try it, and I've told her I don't want to book it anywhere else because I felt so safe. I told her that there's no way to tell by looking at an excursion in a book if they have 2 lines, are consciencious about always hooking you to the main line and the backup line - that they are serious about your gear, etc. We havent been to Roatan lately, but are going in 09 -- now she will never do it. I might - if the same safety features are evident to me -- but it remains to be seen if canopy/zipline tours like this will be available or not.

 

I cannot imagine the pain that this loss has caused this womans' family. It has made me tell my family, specifically my aunt and mother, whom I cruise with every March - that I love them, that I love my life, and if anything happens to me on our cruise, that I had the ride of my life and I regret nothing.

 

Safe journey, everyone.

 

Lisa

[fruitbat]

My experience?

Went ziplining once, broke my leg ziplining once.

 

If I was injured every time I got in a car, I'd reconsider doing that too!

 

I'll never do it (or a high risk excursion similar to it) again, and consider myself lucky that I didn't die like this poor woman did.

[ChBoxers800]

In March 2005, I took the NCL excursion Tabyana Beach & Canopy Tour in Roatan. The tour operators took their time - which is saying something because there were about 30 of us, and it took a long time to get our harness, helmet, and gloves on. They made sure we had fun, while stressing the safety guidelines. At no time were 2 people on the line -- it was strictly one at a time. If a participant got stuck, the operators would talk them to the platform, but did not leave their post to retrieve them. The platform before would not release the next person until they got the word it was clear. At each post, they held you while unhooking you from both lines - and I was always hooked on both lines. Never did they deviate from this. I felt VERY safe and had a BLAST.

My 74 year old mother wants to try it, and I've told her I don't want to book it anywhere else because I felt so safe. I told her that there's no way to tell by looking at an excursion in a book if they have 2 lines, are consciencious about always hooking you to the main line and the backup line - that they are serious about your gear, etc. We havent been to Roatan lately, but are going in 09 -- now she will never do it. I might - if the same safety features are evident to me -- but it remains to be seen if canopy/zipline tours like this will be available or not.

 

I cannot imagine the pain that this loss has caused this womans' family. It has made me tell my family, specifically my aunt and mother, whom I cruise with every March - that I love them, that I love my life, and if anything happens to me on our cruise, that I had the ride of my life and I regret nothing.

 

Safe journey, everyone.

 

Lisa

 

Lisa, Don't know if you are aware of it or not, but this accident was on the same line you went on. I had the same experience as you, the day before this tragic accident. Evidently tho, there are others that have done this zipline and their experience's varied greatly from ours. Safety cables not being connected, etc. I'm wondering if it just depended on who was working the lines on any specific day.

[JennLynn]

A tragic accident, but she was a consenting adult and obviously had to be aware of the possible risk associated with this excursion.

[marieinsouthfla]

I have been involved in rope sports for the past 32 years of my life from mountain rappelling, to rock climbing, and yes zip lining. I have also been an instructor in 40 hour courses in both Basic and Advanced Rope Rescue Operations and Technician Levels. I have taught rope sports at summer camps for kids of all ages as well as professional rope rescue for firefighters and rescue workers. Lastly, my wife and I are former owners of a high adventure summer tour company for teens in which rope sports were a main focus of the program.

 

Things to look for on a zipline if you are considering riding one. Any zipline system should have a back-up of redundant system in place in case the zipline fails. This would consist of an entirely separate zipline that you are attached to in addition to the one you are riding on. This redundant zipline may not even be loaded with your weight during the ride but you are still attached. Ziplines compound the forces on the anchors at either end of them. This means that each anchor point supporting the cable can have in excess of 6 times that of the load. Not to mention, how much force is already on the cable keeping it taught. Metal cable also does not have much give or stretch in it, so this further stresses the anchor. A back-up system at least will catch the rider if the main cable fails. If the main cable fails, the back-up line you are connected to catches you. There may be a short fall but when the back-up system catches, it assures that you are not hitting the ground. Redundancy is the key to safety here. If you are relying solely on a single system to support your ride, you're taking chances. Harnesses and connection points for ziplines rarely are a problem from a failure standpoint. The real danger is the zipline itself. Poor safety standards and inspection practices are a reality in many of the third world countries that feature these exotic rides. The forces applied during one of these rides are considerable. The physics involved tells it all. Most people don't realize the science behind the applied forces including those who construct and even operate the ride itself.

 

Ken Wooldridge

[Cruiser42]

ChBoxers800 --

Thanks -- I kind of suspected it was - but the name Gumbalimba didnt mean anything to me - not sure that name was around in '05.

I think you are absolutely right -- who knows, there's a better than good chance the the people who worked there in 05 are long gone -- and I remember mentioning at the time that you really had to have a lot of patience for that excursion -- and not a lot of people do. I figure, hey, I'm in paradise ~~ I'll wait ! Beats a good day in the office anytime.

 

I hope we get the facts from the investigation. And for the record, my mother has said NO WAY.

 

Happy Cruising, everyone!

Lisa

[bnaj]

We were at Roatan just after this tragic accident. My condolences to the family and friends of this adventurous woman.

 

I used to be really adventurous. Now that I have a family I am toning it down a little but I am encouraging my kids to take some chances (within reason) and try new things. We did the Zip-line in Belize and had a wonderful experience and I would do it again in a heartbeat.

 

I think it is important for us to be aware of our surroundings and if something doesn't look right, or feel right, we need to speak up. The pressures of having all those people lined up behind us usually makes us just go along with things and keep quiet because we don't want to look stupid. This happens far to often. I would rather have someone hold up a line because they were asking "the appropriate" questions of the guides and making them explain the procedures "over and over" if it meant that they might catch a missed step. We are usually too rushed and anxious which makes the operators rushed and possibly careless. I want to take my time and really enjoy the whole experience without being rushed.

 

Again, I don't think we should stop being adventurous, just be more aware of what is going on around us.

 

Just my thoughts...

[NPCruisers]

I was with a group of 29 cruisers on the Norweign Spirit when the zip line accident happen.

 

That incident happen on Tuesday at our first port of call. On Thursday in Belize, 24 of our group went on the zip line excursion which we had scheduled weeks before our cruise. The ages of our group was from 17 to 53 (I happen to be 49) and every single one of us would go back and do it again.

 

We knew and where sadden about Barbara's accident in Roatan, but at no time did any of us feel in any danger. The safety of the zip line excusion was of the highest. There were two very thick cables (my husband stated that the cables where the same as the cables found on the big truck wreckers) and a two pulley system; should one of the cables break you were hooked to a second cable. The harness system that you set in also had numerous hookups to keep you safe not only on the cables but also on the platforms. There was a second harness system for those heavier participants that gave them extra hold for their upper bodies.

 

I can not say what the cable system in Roatan was like since I did not go on that excursion; but I would not hesitate for a second to get back on the Belize zip line or any zip line that was put together with all the above listed safety precautions.

 

It was the most exhilarating, exciting, and wonderful excursion I have ever been on and seconded by all my group.

 

NP Cruiser would like to offer our thoughts and prayers to Barbara Fojtasek's family.

[ChBoxers800]

Ken & NP Cruisers: The zipline in Roatan where the accident occurred was exactly as you both described. A dual cable system. One was the actual zipline which supported all of your weight during the "zip". The 2nd cable parallel to the first, about 2 feet away, which your safety cable attached to. It bore no weight and just glided along with you when you zipped. It's purpose was solely a backup if for some reason the main cable failed.

 

Reports are that for some reason, this lady's safety cable was disconnected by a guide when she became stuck (stopped) somewhere along the zipline prior to getting to the next platform. I was not there and do not want to report incorrect info, but that has been the general statements of those that were there.

 

So it certainly looks as if a failing main cable, and human error (disconnecting her safety line) caused this horrible tragedy.