U.S. government plans to fingerprint foreign cruisers at terminals

[AllieInMD]

wayne_trisha, your "liberties" will be affected if other countries retaliate (which they have and will) by fingerprinting Americans entering their countries. Your prints will ultimately end up on a U.S. data base somewhere but not to worry, you've done nothing wrong and aren't planning to. If the government wants your prints, there should be no problem with that...right?

 

I'd have no problem with a foreign gov't fingerprinting me if I wanted to get in and that was their rule - otherwise I'd stay home. LOL - if the gov't wants your prints, do you really think they can't get them unless you voluntarily give them? In your grand conspiracy theories - how come a lawless out-to-get you gov't is stymied by your refusal to give up your prints? Not very logical now is it.

[AllieInMD]

most of this is not worth responding to - you wanna debate history and politics - when this is about fingerprinting tourists. And to those that say it's a small minority of 'patriotic Americans' in this thread - look at the poll results - and I gladly accept the label of patriotic- it's not a dirty word :)

 

-The choice of the word "denigration" may be mine. But it's simply a description of the attitudes that you have repeatedly posted on this thread: "We're Americans, so we're all right. Everyone else can go hang."-

 

BINGO! When it comes to who we allow inside our borders, and under what conditions, you got it - we're right, we're in the right, and if you don't like it - don't come here - period. If you feel 'denigrated' by it - that's on you. I don't try to tell you how to protect your nation and who enters it - I'm not that arrogant to make that decision for you or your country. Maybe you should try the same.

[AllieInMD]

The topic of this thread is the fingerprinting of foreign nationals. Even if these people have been fingerprinted in their home countries, their fingerprints are not going to show up on the database used by US immigration, unless they are wanted as terrorists or similar.

 

do you really believe that if a person is suspect by behavior, associations, etc that gov't across the world do not share information? our gov'ts have huge databases of info on people of all nationalities.

[celle]

BINGO! When it comes to who we allow inside our borders, and under what conditions, you got it - we're right, we're in the right, and if you don't like it - don't come here - period. If you feel 'denigrated' by it - that's on you. I don't try to tell you how to protect your nation and who enters it - I'm not that arrogant to make that decision for you or your country. Maybe you should try the same.

 

Oh my! That's one slippery slope of logic. I wonder if you think the same should have applied when Hitler was killing the Jews in Germany?

 

And how do you reconcile that view with the US's meddling in the politics of other countries, particularly in the Middle East? Seems to me that the US makes a habit of trying to make decisions for other countries.

 

Look Allie, you have one view, based on what you term patriotism for the US. That's fine. But please allow other people to have different views, based on their perspectives. The whole world does not have to fall into line with what the US says or wants.

 

What many of us have been trying to say is that we see flaws in the system of fingerprinting and do not think that it will save the US from terrorism. When/if we come to the US, we will comply with fingerprinting, we won't demand that the US changes the system, but we know that it is not the huge safeguard that many US citizens have been led to believe.

[vjmatty]

Oh my! That's one slippery slope of logic. I wonder if you think the same should have applied when Hitler was killing the Jews in Germany?

 

And how do you reconcile that view with the US's meddling in the politics of other countries, particularly in the Middle East? Seems to me that the US makes a habit of trying to make decisions for other countries.

 

Look Allie, you have one view, based on what you term patriotism for the US. That's fine. But please allow other people to have different views, based on their perspectives. The whole world does not have to fall into line with what the US says or wants.

 

What many of us have been trying to say is that we see flaws in the system of fingerprinting and do not think that it will save the US from terrorism. When/if we come to the US, we will comply with fingerprinting, we won't demand that the US changes the system, but we know that it is not the huge safeguard that many US citizens have been led to believe.

 

What Allie isn't realizing when she says "Stay out if you don't like it" is that many foreign travelers will do just that. This country keeps finding more and more ways to shoot itself in the foot financially and one of the biggest bullets has been with respect to the tourist industry.

 

Between these rules and the proposed changes to the PVSA we may very well see more and more cruise ships basing themselves in foreign ports as some have done already. This will have a dramatic effect on the economy of every port city that is abandoned. Royal Caribbean has already moved two of its ships out of Florida and the trend will continue as the international public keeps voicing their complaints.

 

To me, saying "We can do what we want for security and stay out if you don't like it the rules" is the same as saying "I can charge whatever I want and don't shop here if you don't like the prices". The US has every right to make poor judgment calls, just don't complain when cruising becomes more and more inconvenient for you as a result.

[dot73]

"if you want to come to America, you have to follow our rules - not the ones of your country" - that's a real rich statement considering how some Americans behave in other countires and how they demand their "rights" when they get into trouble.

 

However, you are 100% right with that statement. We will see how the Americans will react when other countries start demanding their fingerprints in retaliation.

 

The day the U.S. government demands fingerprints from Canadian citizens, is the day that I will never set foot in the U.S. again, even though I love the country and most Americans. I'll stick to cruising in Europe and anywhere else where I'm not treated like a criminal. If the ships start feeling economic pains, they won't think twice about relocating their home ports to Caribbean or European countries who will welcome their money and the employment they will provide. If my passport is good enough to get me into countries such as Cuba, China, North Korea, etc., it should be good enough for the United States of America.

 

Flame me if you wish, but I am not giving up my "civil rights" just because a country is totally paranoid and cannot distinguish between friends and terrorists.

[Goldryder]

I imagine Allie might like to live in Burma...where the government has closed its doors to pretty much everyone. Or maybe she might prefer the US to be run like Germany during WW2...only blonde, blue eyed people are allowed.

 

The US is a culturally diverse nation and its government is trying to lose that diversity by closing out those who wish to visit....sorry Allie but it won't be our loss...it will be yours in the long run. Yep, we will stay away and we will have the ships over here seeing as they aren't welcome in your ports....oh and foodstuffs that you import, lets make those so expensive that you have to go without...and while we're at it...the cars, appliances etc that are built in foreign countries, we'll withold those too.

 

Take everything away and lets see how well you survive without the rest of the world feeding your stomachs, your financial houses, your factories and your ports.

 

But even after all of that...I bet Allie will still say her country is always right...patriotic? not really cos if you were a patriot you would be encouraging trade of all sorts with the world....one country cannot stand on its own for long and if you had your way Allie, the US would not last long at all. Good luck to ya, you're going to need it in shiploads (US registered/crewed ships, of course ;))

[Globaliser]

Other than Oklahoma City, all real terrorism against the United States has been committed by foreigners who either shouldn't have been here in the first place, or who were here illegally by the time they acted.

Actually, this is not true. Go and look up some information about the US citizens who have been involved in the plots, even if they were not in the very front line of those pressing the buttons.

BINGO! When it comes to who we allow inside our borders, and under what conditions, you got it - we're right, we're in the right, and if you don't like it - don't come here - period. If you feel 'denigrated' by it - that's on you. I don't try to tell you how to protect your nation and who enters it - I'm not that arrogant to make that decision for you or your country. Maybe you should try the same.

I wouldn't arrogate to myself the the right to make any decision for you. But remember that you and your government are simply looking after a piece of my world, our world. And you might therefore do well to listen, sometimes.

 

Otherwise you will find that your wish will come true. All these nasty, suspicious foreigners - down to the very last one - will stop visiting.

[KC_fn]

I don't think this is any sort of inconvenience at all. It might help keep the weirdos' date=' perverts and cons off the ship.

 

By the time a person reaches adulthood, chances are the fingerprints are on file somewhere anyway...so what's the difference.

 

Things change - times change. When I first started cruising back in the mid-1970's....all you needed was a voter's registration card to prove you were a U.S. citizen.

 

We live in a different world today.[/quote']

 

G'ma -- Guess who said this:

 

“They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.”

[KStevens79]

G'ma -- Guess who said this:

 

“They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.”

 

 

I know, I know...

 

Just goes to show, times haven't changed. We've had security problems since there have been people...

[KC_fn]

I know, I know...

 

Just goes to show, times haven't changed. We've had security problems since there have been people...

 

Yep. Our Founding Fathers anticipated that we would have all kinds of threats, internal and external. They did not intend that the Constitution be set aside to deal with them.