Saw this about Carnival

[chrisa222]

I was reading the Carnival board, someone had posted a question about the age you have to be to travel, and I thought it was very good..this is their policy:

 

How old do you have to be to travel alone?Guests are required to be 21 years old (on embarkation day) to travel. Guests under the age of 21 must be accompanied in the same stateroom by a parent or guardian 25 or older. The exceptions Carnival will make to this policy are:

Married minor couple - The booking must be documented that the couple is married. The couple must have proof of marriage at embarkation or they will be denied boarding without the benefit of a refund.

Domestic Partners/Same-Sex Union minor couple - The booking must be documented that the couple are legal Domestic Partners/Same-Sex Union. The couple must have legal proof of partnership/union at embarkation or they will be denied boarding without the benefit of a refund.

Guest ages will be verified at embarkation. Guests not conforming to this policy will be denied boarding and assessed a 100% cancellation penalty. NO exceptions will be made at embarkation.

The Group policy is slightly different because of stricter group terms and conditions including mandatory chaperones, damage deposits and other considerations.

 

I think its great that they recognize same-sex union couples. Its sad that something so simple like that basic right would make me so happy (it should obviously be understood) but it isn't. Anyway, great job Carnival!:D

[Boytjie]

I think its great that they recognize same-sex union couples. Its sad that something so simple like that basic right would make me so happy (it should obviously be understood) but it isn't. Anyway, great job Carnival!:D

 

Domestic Partners/Same-Sex Union minor couple - The booking must be documented that the couple are legal Domestic Partners/Same-Sex Union. The couple must have legal proof of partnership/union at embarkation or they will be denied boarding without the benefit of a refund.

 

I wonder what qualifies are legal proof.

[etoile]

I find that policy distasteful, personally. I live in Virginia, and no-way no-how could I get any kind of legal proof of partnership. DW and I are long past being minors, but if we were still young, we'd be S.O.L. for taking a cruise by ourselves, apparently. While I appreciate that Carnival is trying to be inclusive by offering an alternative to "you must be legally married," I don't think they're taking into account things like restrictive laws, etc. I think I'll write to them...

[etoile]

I submitted the following comment on their Contact Us page:

Not sure I'm sending this to the right dept., there wasn't anything for just comments. Anyway, I wanted to express my opinion on your policy regarding same-sex minor couples. Carnival was great to realize that there might be such couples on board, and to include this in your age policy. However, requiring "legal proof" of domestic partnership or civil union is inappropriate. I live in Virginia, and if my wife and I were under 21, we would have no way of sailing with you because Virginia absolutely does not provide legal recognition of same sex couples. In fact, only a few locations do - Vermont, Massachusetts, California, Maine, Oregon, Washington, Connecticut, New Jersey, Washington DC, New York City, Tucson, Toledo, and a few other cities across the country. If a couple is in the other 42 states, and not in one of the few cities that allows partnership, they are unable to sail on Carnival as a minor couple. I encourage you to reconsider your criteria for this matter.

I would have said more but they have a maximum of 1000 characters.

[skf]

I imagine a copy of their marriage/civil union license is what they'd need.

Hey, Etoile ! You forgot New Hampshire, where everybody loves the Gov, and the legislature (General Court) snuck thrugh our stealth amendment to the Marriage Statute allowing Civil Unions for same-sex couples.

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

Well at least the Canadians and those from MA will benefit from this policy.

 

I live in the Commonwealth of Virginia and it is not legal to marry here or even register as a domestic. Oddly enough my company does recognize same sex relationships and I take advantage of our company policies and benefits that way.

 

Carnival is making a small step but does need to tweak it a little.

 

I guess they figure they must have proof other wise they will have under age same sex hertero's claiming to be "married" too just to be able to book.

 

I dont know what the answer it. But this policy wouldnt benefit me if I were that age.

[alphakitty]

My former employer only required proof in the form of a jointly signed lease/mortgage/rental agreement and joint finances such as a checking or savings account. It proved you were living together, not legally married. They allowed same sex couples to obtain health insurance, family plan, this way. I wonder if this is what they mean by proof?

[skf]

Well at least the Canadians and those from MA will benefit from this policy.

 

I live in the Commonwealth of Virginia and it is not legal to marry here or even register as a domestic. Oddly enough my company does recognize same sex relationships and I take advantage of our company policies and benefits that way.

 

Carnival is making a small step but does need to tweak it a little.

 

I guess they figure they must have proof other wise they will have under age same sex hertero's claiming to be "married" too just to be able to book.

 

I dont know what the answer it. But this policy wouldnt benefit me if I were that age.

I'd guess, like you, that they don't want the ship overrun by teenagers.

[adventuregrrl]

Kudos to Carnival for trying, but I agree that their policy falls a bit short. My better half and I are also several years past having to worry about this, but we do have our wonderful British Columbia marriage license.

 

 

Hello to my fellow Virginians! My gal and I were legally married in Canada the same year that we became second class citizens in our Virginia Constitution.

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

I'd guess, like you, that they don't want the ship overrun by teenagers.

 

I apologize if I gave that impression, but it is not what I meant.

 

I was just saying that some non legit "couples" could take advantage and say they are married and are not just to be able to book and not being of age according to Carnival policy.

 

I could care less the age of my fellow passengers. So it is not what I meant at all.

 

:)

[RetiredFL]

California give you a certificate which I presume would be sufficient.

[bots99]

guess my age is showing. kudos to carnival for being inclusive, my boggle comes from the thought of anyone under 18 - married, gay, straight, bent, single or neuter - being able to afford the cost or time to cruise unless it is underwriiten by parents. More power to the kids if they have found a way.

[etoile]

It says you must demonstrate a legal relationship, so I'm guessing a joint mortgage or whatever wouldn't be enough - I could be wrong, but it seems like they want actual DP/union/etc papers.

 

Which, again, we three Virginians posting in this thread could never ever get!

 

I believe the cutoff is 21, bots99, and I guess there could be some very dedicated 20-year-olds who have worked since HS and want to cruise now...but I agree that the policy has to do with teens not running rampant.

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

I guees in 30 days we can add CA to the list along side those in MA who will be able to provide proof.

 

:D

[Ephraim]

Well at least the Canadians and those from MA will benefit from this policy.

 

It may on paper, but it belies the reality in Canada (and especially in Quebec) where few people both to marry anymore and common-law is a large part of the legal relationships. Common-law is essentially recognized after a year in Canada and something as simple as a lease or joint tax returns should be enough. Yves and I have been together for 18 years (okay, so we are too old for the policy) but none-the-less, we don't have a need for a piece of paper, we are common-law and don't need an government piece of paper to validate our relationship.

 

From the standpoint of Canadians and worse, those from Quebec, cruise lines are enormously antiquated and behind the times. Between the fact that we allow adults to drink at 18 (or 19), the fact that we have so many people in common-law relationships and finally the fact that married couples don't usually share a last name (and never do in Quebec unless they married before the early 80s), most American companies are like dinosaurs in this regard. Computer systems in the US don't seem to be programmed to handle couples with different last names, never mind same sex couples.

[NYCFOD]

DH and I were married in Toronto in June 07, even though we live in NYC. There is a reason people elope to Niagara Falls ON, it's because you can get married as soon as you've paid for your marriage licence.

 

I don't think Carnival's requirement of proof is unreasonable. They are trying to overcome the problems they had in the past with drunken, party kids etc. Two men or women under 25 might be prepared to lie and tell a cruise line that they're a couple, but they're unlikely to put it on the public record by getting married in Massachusetts, Canada, Spain, The Netherlands, Belgium South Africa, or swear an affadavit as is required by jurisdictions where civil unions or domestic partnerships are legal.

 

Carnival's policy is at least even handed, it applies equally to gay and straight couples. The other exception to the policy is that if one of the couple is in the military they don't have to have proof of relationship (presumably because Carnival can complain to the military), so if one half of a gay couple is in the military (for say the UK, Canada, Australia or NZ) they could travel without proof of relationship.

[etoile]

DH and I were married in Toronto in June 07, even though we live in NYC. There is a reason people elope to Niagara Falls ON, it's because you can get married as soon as you've paid for your marriage licence.

 

I don't think Carnival's requirement of proof is unreasonable. They are trying to overcome the problems they had in the past with drunken, party kids etc. Two men or women under 25 might be prepared to lie and tell a cruise line that they're a couple, but they're unlikely to put it on the public record by getting married in Massachusetts, Canada, Spain, The Netherlands, Belgium South Africa, or swear an affadavit as is required by jurisdictions where civil unions or domestic partnerships are legal.

 

Carnival's policy is at least even handed, it applies equally to gay and straight couples. The other exception to the policy is that if one of the couple is in the military they don't have to have proof of relationship (presumably because Carnival can complain to the military), so if one half of a gay couple is in the military (for say the UK, Canada, Australia or NZ) they could travel without proof of relationship.

That's great that you were able to go to Canada, but not everyone can do that. Quite frankly, I'm shocked that you suggest it's an "even handed" policy given how hard it is for gay couples to get legal recognition of their relationship, when it's so easy for straight couples. And to be honest, it's not legal unless it's recognized by your home jurisdiction, and Carnival has every right to insist that it be a truly legal document. I'm dismayed that you would imply two people would try to take advantage of this - just because some people might try to take advantage, that means it's okay to put unreasonable expectations on young gay couples? :confused::mad:

[NYCFOD]

That's great that you were able to go to Canada, but not everyone can do that. Quite frankly, I'm shocked that you suggest it's an "even handed" policy given how hard it is for gay couples to get legal recognition of their relationship, when it's so easy for straight couples. And to be honest, it's not legal unless it's recognized by your home jurisdiction, and Carnival has every right to insist that it be a truly legal document. I'm dismayed that you would imply two people would try to take advantage of this - just because some people might try to take advantage, that means it's okay to put unreasonable expectations on young gay couples? :confused::mad:

 

A straight couple in a domestic partnership would still have to provide Carnival with some kind of legal documentation of their relationship if one of the couple is under 25, in that sense it is even handed. In most states you can't register a straight or gay domestic partnership, you're either married or not married. NYC and New York State provide equal respect to all marriages performed in Canada, so DH and I are lucky. NYC also registers domestic partnerships, both gay and straight, although we don't need to register because NYC respects Canadian marriages.

 

I think enterprising 18 - 25 year olds who wanted to go on a cruise to party would take advantage, although it is more likely these days that they'll book the cabins in male/female pairs. Shock horror, even in the 1960's and 1970's some guys claimed they were gay to avoid the draft. I'm not saying it's right, but it happens.

 

BTW, Air Canada flies twice daily between Richmond International and Toronto. It is possible for you and your wife to get legally married in Toronto, it's just that the Commonwealth of Virginia won't recognize it, nor will any Federal agency. I'm Australian, the Australian government doesn't recognize my marriage, but hey, I don't care that much given that I live in NY.

[etoile]

A straight couple in a domestic partnership would still have to provide Carnival with some kind of legal documentation of their relationship if one of the couple is under 25, in that sense it is even handed. In most states you can't register a straight or gay domestic partnership, you're either married or not married. NYC and New York State provide equal respect to all marriages performed in Canada, so DH and I are lucky. NYC also registers domestic partnerships, both gay and straight, although we don't need to register because NYC respects Canadian marriages.

 

I think enterprising 18 - 25 year olds who wanted to go on a cruise to party would take advantage, although it is more likely these days that they'll book the cabins in male/female pairs. Shock horror, even in the 1960's and 1970's some guys claimed they were gay to avoid the draft. I'm not saying it's right, but it happens.

 

BTW, Air Canada flies twice daily between Richmond International and Toronto. It is possible for you and your wife to get legally married in Toronto, it's just that the Commonwealth of Virginia won't recognize it, nor will any Federal agency. I'm Australian, the Australian government doesn't recognize my marriage, but hey, I don't care that much given that I live in NY.

We will have to agree to disagree, I think - my feeling is that Carnival is asking gay people to do something much more complicated than what they are asking straight people to do. (Also, it says that straight couples must be married, not DP's - they have to provide a marriage license.) Oh well, disagreeing is allowed. ;)

 

I wouldn't fly out of Richmond though, Dulles and National are MUCH closer! :D (My wife doesn't want to get married, though...we had the opportunity in BC once and she declined.)

[NYCFOD]

We will have to agree to disagree, I think - my feeling is that Carnival is asking gay people to do something much more complicated than what they are asking straight people to do. (Also, it says that straight couples must be married, not DP's - they have to provide a marriage license.) Oh well, disagreeing is allowed. ;)

 

I wouldn't fly out of Richmond though, Dulles and National are MUCH closer! :D (My wife doesn't want to get married, though...we had the opportunity in BC once and she declined.)

 

I am happy to disagree:). Marriage isn't for everyone, I wish you and your wife all the happiness in the world.

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

I am happy to disagree:). Marriage isn't for everyone, I wish you and your wife all the happiness in the world.

 

 

 

It is totally pointless for my fellow Virginians and I to fly all the way to Canada to get married. It means nothing once we step off the plane back home.

 

I do agree with you that Carnival is trying but it is not a perfect system.

 

I do think that they should also include domestic registration where that is allowed.

 

I would never suggest anyone fly to Canada to get married so they can go on a cruise. It is much more important than that. And some of us stand on principle and prefer to fight our own battles here at home to get equal rights. On the other hand some people would prefer to go flying off someplace to get a piece of paper that means nothing legally at home.

 

So I am with my Etolie and will continue my married life here. Besides I am old enough to go on any cruise line.

 

I am happy that you and your husband are fortunate enough to live in a state where you can do such things. But we can't. Not yet.

[NYCFOD]

DH and I got married in Canada because we love each other and wanted to make a public commitment to each other. When we made that decision we did not know whether or not it would be recognized in NY State or City, we knew that neither the US nor Australian federal governments would recognize our marriage. The Australian government does recognize interdependent relationships of three years standing for immigration purposes, which means that once you've been living together for three years (provided you have some evidence like a lease, a joint bank account, domestic partnership agreement/registration or marriage certificate) the Australian spouse can sponsor the non-Australian spouse for immigration.

 

I would not advocate people registering a DP just to get on a ship. I think that people should read the cruise contract before they buy their ticket and make sure that they will be able to board the ship. If one line does not allow under 25's to sail without a 25 yo in the cabin, they should either find a line that does or take some other kind of vacation.

 

Personally, marriage is an important commitment for us, but not everyone wants or needs that. I say live and let live.

 

It is totally pointless for my fellow Virginians and I to fly all the way to Canada to get married. It means nothing once we step off the plane back home.

 

I do agree with you that Carnival is trying but it is not a perfect system.

 

I do think that they should also include domestic registration where that is allowed.

 

I would never suggest anyone fly to Canada to get married so they can go on a cruise. It is much more important than that. And some of us stand on principle and prefer to fight our own battles here at home to get equal rights. On the other hand some people would prefer to go flying off someplace to get a piece of paper that means nothing legally at home.

 

So I am with my Etolie and will continue my married life here. Besides I am old enough to go on any cruise line.

 

I am happy that you and your husband are fortunate enough to live in a state where you can do such things. But we can't. Not yet.

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

Personally, marriage is an important commitment for us, but not everyone wants or needs that. I say live and let live.

 

We are not saying that we do not want or need it. I would love to go through the whole process if it were legally binding.

 

My point is that the marriage between same sex couples is not legal where I live and therefore it is pointless to fly to Canada to get married. I can set up a tent in my back yard and have a ceremony and get the same effect.

[etoile]

I thought the policy only applied to under 21's?