Cruise ships aren't cruise ships any more...

[PennyAgain]

That may be the case, but now LV is tanking. I cannot tell you the number of "come ons" I get from a lot of the hotels in LV. Bigger and glitzier is not always better. With the economy the way it is, I wonder how many ships of all sizes will be sailing half full in the near future?

 

Since I live in a town of less then 2100 people, there's no way I want to be on a cruise ship that has a larger population than my town.

 

Are you all saying that Crystal doesn't make a profit? I believe they do and a nice one at that.

[NAJNLA]

Is there anyone out there besides DH and me who is not thrilled with the "can you top this?" mentality of the cruise lines as they continue to build mega-ships and mega-mega-ships that are more like Las Vegas theme hotels than they are cruise ships? Thousands of passengers, skating rinks, boxing rings, real grass lawns, ice bars, indoor spaces made to look like outdoor spaces, outdoor spaces made to look like indoor spaces... I know cruise lines take great pride in building floating cities filled with "firsts" at sea designed to out do the competition, but it appears that more and more ships are being designed to look and feel like anything but cruise ships - which is what they're supposed to be, no?

 

We've cruised on several different sized ships from the size of the Song of Norway (about 1,000 passengers) to the size of the Mariner of the Seas (about 3,300 passengers), and haven't found the bigger ships to feel any more crowded than the smaller ships. Bigger ships have bigger and/or more public places to go, so onboard crowds seem about the same to us -- never that much of a problem no matter the size of the ship. And even if you're on a smaller ship, the ports can be crowded if there are a lot of other ships in port. Just my $.02.:)

[sailinglisa]

The OP and those who agree (which includes myself), are not the "target market" for these ships. The industry has to reach a younger average aged passenger, and family while holding the price down to keep it affordable. If they fail to attract a younger average age, over time the industry would contract. Cruising would become "Something your parents or grandparents did." I think the growth in the cruise industry over the past 10 years is directly attributable to the launch of larger, glitzier ships. It's basic basic marketing. Expand your customer base by diversifying your product offering. Attract new customers from land base all-inclusives, by making the ship a destination of its own. JMHO

 

 

In many ways, I agree with your assessment. However, in building bigger and better and glitzier, the cruise lines are alienating a whole segment of passengers who love cruising the way it used to be 10 years ago......you actually knew you were on the ocean, you didn't have 3 - 5 thousand of your not so closest friends and acquaintances to fight with and I feel the service was more personalized and more attentive.

 

Yes, these ships may be bigger and offer more to new cruisers or those who have only cruised in the last 5 years or so, or to those who just have to experience the "bigger and better". I just hope the cruise lines don't lose sight of those of us who prefer smaller and friendlier and less hectic.....after all, we are the ones who helped cruising become what it is today.....drive us away and we will be gone permanently.

[PhoenixCruiser]

We really like some of the options the bigger ships offer. I wasn't interested in the Freedom Class and the Oasis looks awesome to me (except for the amount of people, lol).

 

I think the Radiance Class ships are absolutely perfect!!

 

###

[iheartbda]

We have been on a couple of the "floating cities" and manage to make them work for us.

 

My TA is also very much against them. She calls them "Small Cities." Who wants to cruise with 5000+ people!!!

 

I'm soooooo disappointed that RCCL didn't pick my name for the new ship.

City of the Seas.:p :D

[Philip217]

PennyAgain,

 

You got it right the first time,

 

Crystal Cruises has not made a profit in several decades.

It is only through the generosity of their owner, Nippon Yusen Kaisha, (A very wealthy and successful Japanese commercial shipping company) that Crystal continues to operate.

[Philip217]

All of mass market cruising - and most of the rest as well - has been taken over by middle America. Think of it as "Disneyland at Sea".

 

Disneyland would be far nicer if they allowed only a few hundred people at a time to enter the park.

 

But it's not going to happen is it...................................??????

[Cooks_Bay]

In many ways, I agree with your assessment. However, in building bigger and better and glitzier, the cruise lines are alienating a whole segment of passengers who love cruising the way it used to be 10 years ago......you actually knew you were on the ocean, you didn't have 3 - 5 thousand of your not so closest friends and acquaintances to fight with and I feel the service was more personalized and more attentive.

 

Yes, these ships may be bigger and offer more to new cruisers or those who have only cruised in the last 5 years or so, or to those who just have to experience the "bigger and better". I just hope the cruise lines don't lose sight of those of us who prefer smaller and friendlier and less hectic.....after all, we are the ones who helped cruising become what it is today.....drive us away and we will be gone permanently.

 

You missed my point, which is that these ships broaden the product offering. The options you seek still exist in HAL, Regent, Crystal, Oceania and to a lesser degree Carnival, so nobody is being "alienated."

[sailinglisa]

You missed my point, which is that these ships broaden the product offering. The options you seek still exist in HAL, Regent, Crystal, Oceania and to a lesser degree Carnival, so nobody is being "alienated."

 

 

Even those cruise lines you mentioned are going "bigger and better" HAL just took delivery of the Eurodam and has more on order(as have Celebrity, Princess, Carnival and NCL). Regent, Crystal and Oceania are out of the price range for many of us (especially those of us who cruise as singles or solo). What has Carnival built that is smaller? Everything they build is bigger....and their smaller, older ships are on itineraries that don't exactly draw repeat cruisers seeking different itineraries and traditional experiences. Add to that, that some cruise lines put their smaller ships on more exotic and longer itineraries, then that takes them out of play for a lot of us with limited vacation time.

 

I agree that RCCL is broadening their appeal, but they are leaving a lot of their other passengers behind. I love the Radiance class of ships.....just the right size and they are beautiful! Too bad they are not doing many Caribbean cruises. The Sun class of ships on Princess (Dawn, Sea and Sun) are great ships too....too bad the Sun has been moved to Australia and the Dawn will follow this September after my Alaska cruise on her; and the Sea is being marketed to the British market.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Is there anyone out there besides DH and me who is not thrilled with the "can you top this?" mentality of the cruise lines as they continue to build mega-ships and mega-mega-ships that are more like Las Vegas theme hotels than they are cruise ships? Thousands of passengers, skating rinks, boxing rings, real grass lawns, ice bars, indoor spaces made to look like outdoor spaces, outdoor spaces made to look like indoor spaces... I know cruise lines take great pride in building floating cities filled with "firsts" at sea designed to out do the competition, but it appears that more and more ships are being designed to look and feel like anything but cruise ships - which is what they're supposed to be, no?

 

This is why we have been sticking with HAL the last few years -- they haven't gone into the "mega" ships yet with all that other stuff.

[kitty9]

I would like to know how Philip knows what Crystal's, or any other line's profits are? If they are all losing money, why aren't they ALL in Chapt 11?

[cruiselover57]

Although I have yet to try one of those mega ships, it does have me curious maybe one day in the future. However, we prefer the longer cruises and most of the newer ships only go for 7 days. It has us a bit concerned though with disemarking thousands of people (esp. in a port where you have to tender in). We were on the Summit last year to Hawaii and while that's an adequate size ship, it seemed to take forever to get off the ship on one of those tendering days - over an hour! So, while they seem to have all the glitz and glamor of Las Vegas and Hollywood, I'll still look at the pictures on-line, look at reviews and then maybe one day consider it - just not right now. The first ship I was on in 1972 was the Song of Norway (RCI) - it was 18,000 tons - anyone remember it? We eventually went on Sitmar and those ships were 25,000 tons - boy, those ships at 25,000 tons seemed huge! Now it seems the average cruise ship is around 80,000-100,000 tons - average, amazing! I think a ship at 80,000 tons is big enough for me!

 

Laurie

[madra2112]

There is another upside to the mega-ships from the point of view of people who want a relaxing cruise, and that's the fact that they will attract families and younger cruisers. That should then leave the smaller ships free for those who seek a quieter time.

 

Next week, we go on our first cruise on board Navigator of the Seas, and my two teens (15 and 14) are really excited about it. If they were on a smaller, more relaxing ship (say, for the sake of argument Azamara or Oceania), I suspect they'd be walking around bored, and bumming out everyone they meet.

 

I'd love to try Oceania, or Fred.Olsen some day, but I wouldn't dream of bringing teens onto them. On the other hand, when m 14 year old son saw the Oasis video the other night, his tongue was hanging out. The companies want the family market because that's where the money is.

[sail7seas]

Is there anyone out there besides DH and me who is not thrilled with the "can you top this?" mentality of the cruise lines as they continue to build mega-ships and mega-mega-ships that are more like Las Vegas theme hotels than they are cruise ships? Thousands of passengers, skating rinks, boxing rings, real grass lawns, ice bars, indoor spaces made to look like outdoor spaces, outdoor spaces made to look like indoor spaces... I know cruise lines take great pride in building floating cities filled with "firsts" at sea designed to out do the competition, but it appears that more and more ships are being designed to look and feel like anything but cruise ships - which is what they're supposed to be, no?

 

 

Try sailing and "S" or "R" Class Holland America Line ship. They fabulous ships. They look like ships; they feel like ships; they are very beautiful ships.

 

"S" class ships are: Statendam, Maasdam, Ryndam and Veendam.

"R" class ships are: Zaandam, Voldnedam, Rotterdam and Amsterdam

 

HAL's Vista class ships are somewhat larger but are definitely still 'ships' vs. floating apartment buildings. They are Zuiderdam, Westerdam, Oosterdam and the very beautiful Noordam.

 

And if you want a REAL world cruiser, ship of ships, there is Prinsendam....the former Royal Viking Sun. Fabulous!

[Greengo]

We agree completely. We came to this conclusion two years ago when we pulled into port on a Mediterranean cruise and saw 140 tour buses waiting for OUR ship. That's why our last three cruises have been on: The Tahitian Princess (approximately 650 passengers - most of whom appeared to be in their 30's and 40's); The Celebrity Xpedition (approximately 100 passengers - most of whom were in their 40's and 50's); and the Seabourn Legend (approximately 200 passengers - most of who were in their 50's and 60's. Our preference is for a small (under 1,000 passengers) cruise ship that can get into smaller, less-crowded ports. We also prefer a more active itinerary, which we have found in the smaller ships. That's why we have future cruises already reserved on Seabourn, Oceania and the TP. I understand that the smaller ships aren't for everyone, but neither are the huge ones. There's something out there for everone.

[Deaf Dude]

I also prefer the smaller ships. Some of the new ships are just way over the top for me. Check out the "Pinacle Project", a new ship idea that shipbuilder Fincantieri has pitched to Carnival. Looks like a fun ship but I doubt if it will eer get built.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NLavy54daqk

 

Paul

[bakechef]

I am sad to say that I too believe that the smaller ships will go away especially with the cost of fuel continuing to rise. The smaller ships are often older and most likely less efficient. Most modern cruise ships hold 2500 and up, many small ones 12-1500, I can imagine that it is far more profitable to fit 2500 on one ship than the same amount on two.

 

I loved my cruise last year on the NCL Majesty, what the little ship lacked in glitz and gimmicks, it made up for in charm.

 

MAC

[chasetf]

That may be the case, but now LV is tanking. I cannot tell you the number of "come ons" I get from a lot of the hotels in LV. Bigger and glitzier is not always better. With the economy the way it is, I wonder how many ships of all sizes will be sailing half full in the near future?

I donot know what LV you are talking about..:rolleyes: ... The real estate market is in the tank but not the casinos.

 

Las Vegas welcomed just over 3.1 million visitors in February, up 3.1% from last year, according to the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority. The year-to-date visitor count is at more than 6.2 million, a 1.2% increase over the same period last year. Convention attendance increased 15.8% for the month. The LVCVA recently released its 2007 Visitor Profile Study, which noted that 81% of last year’s visitors were repeat visitors to Las Vegas. The average number of nights stayed was 3.5, and 84% of visitors gambled while in town. The average trip gambling budget was nearly $556. 54% of last year’s visitors traveled here via ground transportation and 46% traveled by air.

Since I live in a town of less then 2100 people, there's no way I want to be on a cruise ship that has a larger population than my town.

Sure limits your choices then ;) ........ Plus probably increases the price you'll pay.

[Bramcruiser]

The OP is soooo correct. Unfortunately the core market that these lines are chasing are not the classic cruisers of days gone by and thus we're becoming the minority rather than the sought after market.

 

The unfortunate part about all of this is that the cruise lines are all starting to look alike as they try to out-compete each other.

 

David

[rimau]

We really prefer really small ships. Have been on a few Cruise West ships, the Star Flyer, and a realy small Canadian ship on the St. Lawrence Seaway. Those are my ideal cruises. That having been said, I have prefered the Grand Princess over the Dawn Princess. I liked more pools and loved MUTS. If you are going to this kind of cruise, I think a little bigger is better but I think the new ones would be over the top. I do want to be on a cruise, not visiting an odd city.

[bermuda triangle]

Is there anyone out there besides DH and me who is not thrilled with the "can you top this?" mentality of the cruise lines as they continue to build mega-ships and mega-mega-ships that are more like Las Vegas theme hotels than they are cruise ships? Thousands of passengers, skating rinks, boxing rings, real grass lawns, ice bars, indoor spaces made to look like outdoor spaces, outdoor spaces made to look like indoor spaces... I know cruise lines take great pride in building floating cities filled with "firsts" at sea designed to out do the competition, but it appears that more and more ships are being designed to look and feel like anything but cruise ships - which is what they're supposed to be, no?

 

I agree with you 150%

 

Laura

[ondeckatsea]

The largest ships we've sailed on were the Explorer and the Adventure and they were much too large for us. We prefer the Radiance class on RCIand the Millineum class on Celebrity. As a matter of fact my husband refuses to cruise on the big ones. We like a ship that feels like a ship and not a floating resort. But....different strokes for different folks.

[SargassoSage]

In the USA bigger is always better. Americans are bigger and their ships are too. These cruiselines are following the american formula for success.

If you build it they will come. Viva Mega Mega!

[Melissa at Mohair Meadows]

With the larger ships, RCI is trying to hook the younger market. Ziplining, wall climbing, surfing - these are all things that I would have enjoyed 20 years ago, but I think would cripple me today. :)

 

I am fearful, however, that to make these megaships profitable, RCI will need to economize on items my generation prefers - like eating. Already the menus have been pared down. They have lost a lot of the WOW factor. I still enjoy them - but not as much as before.

 

We may try the Oasis sometime, but I think will stay with the smaller ships. I hope RCI will build a few more of these to keep the fleet current for all passengers' preferences.

[ssantow]

First let me state that the best cruise I ever had was on the original Pacific Princess with a total of 740 passengers. It was a 15 day full transit of the Panama Canal.

I must say I am going to have to agree with the majority of the business experts that say Royal Caribbean has made the biggest mistake in their history since they tried to purchase Princess. The total cost of the Oasis of the Seas will be over 2 billion dollars. That price tag puts the per berth cost around $330,000. Compare that with the average newbuild cost of just $100,000 per berth. Now add all the extras they plan to include and you can just about guess those extras will cost the passengers extra.

Now for the scary part. Royal Caribbean has two of these ships on order. If crude oil prices continue to climb the airlines will charge more as well as add extra charges and it will be prohibitive for the average person to afford to get to the ports let alone cruise on these floating cities.

I really think the Carnival Corporation approach to wait till we see what the market will bear before building is a much better idea.