Cruise ships aren't cruise ships any more...

[jsmeeker]

I donot know what LV you are talking about..:rolleyes: ... The real estate market is in the tank but not the casinos.

 

 

 

I wouldn't say the casinos are in the tank, but this Summer, I have been seeing some really great rates. Better than I have seen in some time. The softening economy is certainly a factor hear. I suspect to see this trend to continue through the year. But it's all good by me. I'm heading there Friday!

 

 

Anyway, I've only been on one ship. NCL Star. I thought that thing was pretty damn big. But really, comparing it to the ships out there now or on their way, it's not all that big. Which is crazy. Some of the big ships appeal to certain parts of me. But I would think it would feel really crowded with all of those people on it. Then again, I was slightly worried about that on the Star, and it really wasn't a problem.

[dna1990]

We too like em small(er). And it is the ports that have be overrun by so many pax unloading. I liked a sleepy St.John or a quaint Cayman. Nowadays, they are looking like SixFlags on a summer day.

 

It is our fault really, my wife and I. Sorry everyone. Becuase for years we would go around saying 'where are there other 2400 some odd people that are on this boat'. I guess we have a timing and scheme that puts us on deck or in a buffet line just at the right off-peak time. Well clearly RCCL heard us talking and realized that yes - there is actually room to squeeze on another 1000 people....So that every rail, table, bar, slot machine, spa, etc - is just a short enough line that people will stick it out.

 

The cruise boom will eventually catch one of these lines and their massive fleets, I for one hopes it is not RCCL - but as others have said...it very well could be reaching the top of a long ride down.

[chasetf]

I understand all the "what is becoming of the cruise industry" concern to some extent as the cruise lines add climbing walls, skating rinks, peewee golf, ....on and on. But this was started the day the first ocean liner was transformed into a cruise ship. An ocean liner was purpose built for transporting a large number of people from one point to another.

 

The concept of the cruise ship is the ship is no longer a transporter or just a means of transportation... but is now a destination in and of itself. So now we are trying to express how much of a "destination" we want the ship to be.

[cruiserbryce]

In the USA bigger is always better. Americans are bigger and their ships are too.

 

wow...strange how new ship builds can draw the worst in people...funny how you dont have any details in your profile and are generally anonymous....makes it easy to toss around comments like this;)

[momofmeg]

The largest ships we've sailed on were the Explorer and the Adventure and they were much too large for us. We prefer the Radiance class on RCIand the Millineum class on Celebrity. As a matter of fact my husband refuses to cruise on the big ones. We like a ship that feels like a ship and not a floating resort. But....different strokes for different folks.

 

Unfortunatly Celebrity has joined the gang it seems. I have no desire to be on the Solstice so I can stand on grass. I have grass in my yard.

 

ths same goes for skating rinks, bowling alleys and rock climbing walls. I have all that right here at home. I take cruises to get away from it all, not to bring it all with me.

[Janan]

You have lots and lots of company...including "yours truely" here. If you scroll around these boards' date=' you'll see them.

 

I have absolutely no interest in these behemoths....wouldn't ever consider a cruise on one of them. I love to cruise..... For me, the experience is the sea, some good food well prepared and served, an attentive staff, a quiet balcony and a good book....and leave me alone, please.

 

I believe these monstrosities will be marketed to 1st time cruisers and those who have only cruised lately and only a few times.

 

Veteran cruisers aren't looking for Disneyland, Las Vegas or shopping malls......else we'd pay to go to those places. So many new cruisers have no experience at what cruising is about.

 

Oh well, different strokes, I suppose. I'll stick to the smaller ships where you are expected to make your own private experience - and where you are left to your own desire and comforts.[/quote']

 

I figured I would add my two cents and started reading the previous posts........got to the first one and had to go no further, as the post above expresses both my wife and my opinion about this! I do wish that the "mass market cruiselines" would also take us into consideration.

 

It is beyond me why they (the cruiselines ) haven't figured out that there are enough people who "long" for the smaller ships (no pun intended:D )...that if they built them and raised the price even to double what they charge now....people would be happy and would gladly pay the extra! I myself can't afford to go on one of the smaller all inclusive lines...however I could probably manage (with the right itinerary) to pay $1000.00 per person for an inside cabin, for a smaller ship going to the smaller islands.....and the service as well as the food would improve....the waitstaff and service personell would not be so harried or stressed and might actually get to know the passengers and also from what I've heard (and being somewhat of a cook myself, somewhat being the operative word:D ) it's easier to control quality the less people you cook for.

 

Please someone from the cruiselines read this.....you can take all the credit for the smaller ship idea....just PLEASE!!! give us our smaller ships!

 

Andy

[GORDONCHICK]

I would like to know how Philip knows what Crystal's, or any other line's profits are? If they are all losing money, why aren't they ALL in Chapt 11?

 

Most of these companies are public, and their financials are public record. You just need to know where to look. DH does it all the time since he's interested in that. And if you reread what Philip said, they have very profitable parent companies who choose to allow them to operate at a loss or break even. The parent companies could choose to close them down at any moment if the whim strikes them.

 

And Philip has worked on cruise ships for a number of years (read his posts - especially funny/sad are the cruiser complaints he has to deal with), and is probably on a ship somewhere as I type this. I love his informative posts. I'm sure we will begin to see some more interesting "insider" postsfrom another CC member, Sake'sDad, as he has just joined the Eurodam crew in the entertainment department.

[lady_cruiser]

Cruise ships are now floating resorts and I love them.

[gin_runner]

Is there anyone out there besides DH and me who is not thrilled with the "can you top this?" mentality of the cruise lines as they continue to build mega-ships and mega-mega-ships that are more like Las Vegas theme hotels than they are cruise ships? Thousands of passengers, skating rinks, boxing rings, real grass lawns, ice bars, indoor spaces made to look like outdoor spaces, outdoor spaces made to look like indoor spaces... I know cruise lines take great pride in building floating cities filled with "firsts" at sea designed to out do the competition, but it appears that more and more ships are being designed to look and feel like anything but cruise ships - which is what they're supposed to be, no?

 

true. cruise ships are barely "ships" now - they are more like giant floating hotels on barges.

 

but the only reason they are building them this way is because that's what the public seems to want.

 

you want older style cruising? Those sort of lines do still exist. You might try HAL(to a degree), but there are other, niche speciality lines that specialize in a more traditional cruise such as Olsen, -- although these lines are small. some of the luxury lines specialize in being more traditional but are costly, of course

[hunter2004]

Is there anyone out there besides DH and me who is not thrilled with the "can you top this?" mentality of the cruise lines as they continue to build mega-ships and mega-mega-ships that are more like Las Vegas theme hotels than they are cruise ships? Thousands of passengers, skating rinks, boxing rings, real grass lawns, ice bars, indoor spaces made to look like outdoor spaces, outdoor spaces made to look like indoor spaces... I know cruise lines take great pride in building floating cities filled with "firsts" at sea designed to out do the competition, but it appears that more and more ships are being designed to look and feel like anything but cruise ships - which is what they're supposed to be, no?

We have been on RC, Mariner in January 2004 and it was a largest the day we sailed but was the 2nd largest the day we were back in port. We also on Freedom of the Sea on June 2007, and it was a largest class for now. We also sailed on Radiance, Jewel, Enchantment, Vision and Celebrity Millinnium. We liked all of them, because all we did was spending sometime together almost dating all over again. My DH liked to drink coffee and looking out to the ocean on deck 5, see the show and visiting the port.

 

My DH all about relaxing and ocean sometimes we forgot that 3000+ are on the ship with us. So because of what we do big ship or small ship are not an issue for us for now as long as the price is right:D

 

See the ocean during the day and have a date with my DH at night in main dinning room :) and donate money to casino in some night:mad: , we always enjoyed our cruising in all size and shape for now

[lel5344]

It wasn't all that long ago that a 70,000 GRT ship was considered a "megaship". W've been on ships as small as the Norwegian Crown and the largest (to date) has been the Norwegian Sun. Next is the Star Princess.

 

We like smaller ships for their intimacy, larger ships for heir variety. To us, it's a cruise, and we're going to have a wonderful time. We're going to be relaxed, flexible, pampered, overfed (if we're not careful). We're going to love the itinerary and the days at sea. We're going to unpack once and take our hotel with us. And, again, we're going to have a wonderful time.

[rich_cathybrock]

I agree with most of the posters who prefer a cruise which feels like a cruise to one that feels more like the floating version of the MGM Grand!

 

That said, we have been on the old Noordam (our first cruise) and the Prinsendam, as well as the Rotterdam and the Golden Princess.

 

I loved the personal treatment we received on the two smaller ships and feel that the Prinsendam was the best of them all.

 

That said, we did a lot more walking on the larger ships, and enjoyed them almost as much - again - the most notable difference was the service, which was never poor, just not as attentive and personal, for obvious reasons.

 

Just my two cents....

[Happy ks]

There is another upside to the mega-ships from the point of view of people who want a relaxing cruise, and that's the fact that they will attract families and younger cruisers. That should then leave the smaller ships free for those who seek a quieter time.

 

Next week, we go on our first cruise on board Navigator of the Seas, and my two teens (15 and 14) are really excited about it. If they were on a smaller, more relaxing ship (say, for the sake of argument Azamara or Oceania), I suspect they'd be walking around bored, and bumming out everyone they meet.

 

I'd love to try Oceania, or Fred.Olsen some day, but I wouldn't dream of bringing teens onto them. On the other hand, when m 14 year old son saw the Oasis video the other night, his tongue was hanging out. The companies want the family market because that's where the money is.

 

 

 

I love this response, it makes me want to book an Oceania or Azamara cruise right now! A cruise without families sounds heavenly to me. I have nothing against kids, have 2 myself, and I think the larger ships are perfect for families of all ages.

 

Our teenaged kids have been on a number of cruises with us and don't have any real desire to accompany us on another. We also burned them out on Disneyland before they were 10 years old. Oh well, I suppose we'll have to go without them and they can stay with the relatives ;)

 

We had the pleasure of a preview of Liberty of the Seas on a pre-innaugural and while we think it would be a lovely choice for a large group or family, it's just not for us. We really want an ocean experience, not a mall experience.

 

So...I'm in full support of the OP and their opinion, keep the smaller cruise ships sailing, there's a lot of us who love it!

[CruisnGram]

I do believe that the general public (those not into cruising a lot) believe that bigger is better.

 

I'm considering booking the NCL Magesty before she retires next year. Hear great reviews about her except that "she's small". I live about 1/2 hour from the port in Baltimore and last Saturday, drove down to see her sail. When you are close to her, the idea of anyone calling her "small" is ludicrous. Yet she is small, compared to today's ships. She carry's about 1800 to 2000 passengers. To me, that's perfect as I don't want to do battle with 5000 people at the buffet.

 

It truly is "to each his own" as I can understand those that want the ice skating rinks, rock walls, flo riders, etc. but as long as the small ships are offered, that's where I'll be sailing.

[cruzeluver]

Cruisngram-

 

The NCL Majesty is a terrific ship!

 

We sailed her out of Charleston two years ago to the Western Caribbean and plan to do Bermuda next Spring.

 

It will be such a shame when she is removed from the NCL fleet as she is one of the few smaller ships still sailing for the mass-market lines. Soon we will have to go to the premiuim lines for smaller ships.But I guess the thinking is to attract new cruisers they have to keep adding more and more distractions so people aren't reminded they are not at DisneyWorld or Las Vegas. :rolleyes:

[davecttr]

One persons loss is anothers gain!. NCL selling Dream and Majesty to Louis Cruise Lines may mean one of them appearing in Thomson Cruises livery in a year or so to replace The Emerald of 26,431 tons and 1000 passengers.In fact all Thomson ships are 'small' with the largest carrying 1450 passengers.

[forensic]

You have lots and lots of company...including "yours truly" here. If you scroll around these boards' date=' you'll see them.

 

I have absolutely no interest in these behemoths....wouldn't ever consider a cruise on one of them. I love to cruise..... For me, the experience is the sea, some good food well prepared and served, an attentive staff, a quiet balcony and a good book....and leave me alone, please.

 

I believe these monstrosities will be marketed to 1st time cruisers and those who have only cruised lately and only a few times.

 

Veteran cruisers aren't looking for Disneyland, Las Vegas or shopping malls......else we'd pay to go to those places. So many new cruisers have no experience at what cruising is about.

 

Oh well, different strokes, I suppose. I'll stick to the smaller ships where you are expected to make your own private experience - and where you are left to your own desire and comforts.[/quote']

 

You are "missing the boat" so to speak. That is the great thing about these ships. You can do anything you want on them. When you have a family sailing not everyone wants to do the same thing. I am a TA and when a couple comes to me wanting to go on a cruise they will say that they want a quiet place to read and relax but their teenage children want fun, fun, fun. Or, the family they want to travel with want a putting green, or rock climbing wall. They build these great ships so that there is some of everything for everybody. What would you tell these families? Oh well you and the other family have to sail on different ships?

 

My DH and I are like you we love to spend our cruise on our balcony reading and watching the beautiful sea go by. Sometimes though I love to go to the Solarium or outdoor pool. We also enjoy going to the Martini Bar each night before dinner. I disagree that they are only for first time cruisers as we go back over and over to the M class ships and can't wait to sail on the Equinox.

 

We find that =X= offers choices without losing the opportunity to find beautiful, quiet places to read and relax.

 

But the best part about cruising? There are ships and cruise lines out there for everyone. Bon Voyage!

[momofmeg]

You are "missing the boat" so to speak. That is the great thing about these ships. You can do anything you want on them. When you have a family sailing not everyone wants to do the same thing. I am a TA and when a couple comes to me wanting to go on a cruise they will say that they want a quiet place to read and relax but their teenage children want fun, fun, fun. Or, the family they want to travel with want a putting green, or rock climbing wall. They build these great ships so that there is some of everything for everybody. What would you tell these families? Oh well you and the other family have to sail on different ships?

 

My DH and I are like you we love to spend our cruise on our balcony reading and watching the beautiful sea go by. Sometimes though I love to go to the Solarium or outdoor pool. We also enjoy going to the Martini Bar each night before dinner. I disagree that they are only for first time cruisers as we go back over and over to the M class ships and can't wait to sail on the Equinox.

 

We find that =X= offers choices without losing the opportunity to find beautiful, quiet places to read and relax.

 

But the best part about cruising? There are ships and cruise lines out there for everyone. Bon Voyage!

 

No you are MISSING the point of her post. All of these things I can do within 30 miles of where I live INCLUDING iceskating and attending iceskating shows and in a rink ten times nicer then those on the voyager class ships. I have no need to book a cruise to go to Johnny Rockets either as I have one 4 miles from my home. (never eat there either-not my "cup of tea")

I cruise to "get away" from things I can do at home NOT to take those things with me.

[Philip217]

Momofmeg,

 

Forensic may be missing the point of the post, but you and the poster are missing the point of "Mass Market". They call it that because it is tailored to satisfy the MASSES - not YOU and not ME.

 

Just like Disneyland (another MASS MARKET venue), the Mass Market cruise ship must offer enough vartiation on entertainment and activity to satisfy nearly everyone.

 

Those who take a relatively inexpensive mass market cruise and then complain that it was not as satisfying to them as an individualized (and much more expensive) cruise are wasting everyone's time. It's not going to change until they are willing to pay more money to get the custom experience they desire.

 

If I purchase a Volkswagen and then complain that it doesn't perform like a BMW, shame on me.

[sail7seas]

Then there are those who book the costly Suites on the mass market ships and pay dearly for them.

 

Where do they fit in that schematic?

[PhoenixCruiser]

Then there are those who book the costly Suites on the mass market ships and pay dearly for them.

 

Where do they fit in that schematic?

 

I was thinking the same thing.

 

Just today I read a complaint in the Cruise Travel magazine from a cruiser who paid big $$$ for the Disney Wonder. He stated that he was provided a Yugo experience with a Cadillac price tag.

 

###

[soedergren]

Well, I think there are different ships for different tastes ... and that's a good thing.

 

Personally, however, I wouldn't set foot on any of the modern mega liners. I very much prefer the supperior service and usually more interesting itineraries of the smaller ships.

 

If I want a Las Vegas style experience, I can just go to Las Vegas. I don't have to have that on the ocean.

 

As to the point that cruise companies can only make money with bigger ships, I simply cannot follow. That maybe true for American cruise companies, but then this has to do with the way they do business, as there are plenty of European, Asian, and even South American cruise companies that are making good money with small ships. Pullmantur of Spain, for example, was even so successful with their smaller and older ships that RCI eventually became interested in buying them.

[lilybug]

Me! That's why we're cruising on Oceania later this month. I enjoy the "ship" feel, if I wanted a huge resort, I'd stay in one of those.

[cruisemom42]

I'm really not sure what all the fuss is about. Yes, there are people who adamantly love smaller ships. But as can be seen by the fact that the so-called "behemoth" ships sail fully booked every week, there is clearly a strong market for them.

 

I, for one, am just happy that there ARE still choices for everyone. As Philip pointed out, the smaller ships do NOT make money. This was also confirmed to me in a conversation with staff on my recent Princess cruise. Princess has 3 small ships no one has mentioned: Tahitian, Royal, and Pacific Princess, each of which carry about 675 passengers. Princess makes no money on these ships, but they are able to continue to operate them because they do make money on the larger Grand and Gem class ships. They realize their passengers want variety and that some like smaller ships. I am less familiar with HAL, but would guess they are in a similar situation as they also have several smaller ships.

 

So it seems that cruise lines, even mass market ones, have "small ship" options. It's good to have choices. As someone else pointed out, the larger ships are there for those who want them (and I disagree that only "first time" cruisers book them), and the small ships are available for the niche market that enjoys them. When I travel solo, I would prefer a smaller ship. But when I travel with DS (teen), I book a larger ship, knowing that he and I will both be happy. When I'm sitting on my balcony reading my book and watching the waves go by, there is no difference between a smaller and a larger ship!

 

For those who enjoy the smaller ships, please vote with your pocketbooks and cruise them (even if the cost is more than a larger ship) so that they remain viable. Sadly, the experience in cruising has mostly been that people will go for the less expensive cruise on the larger ship more often than not.

 

Check out the 3 smaller Princess ships...

[sail7seas]

For those who enjoy the smaller ships, please vote with your pocketbooks and cruise them (even if the cost is more than a larger ship) so that they remain viable. Sadly, the experience in cruising has mostly been that people will go for the less expensive cruise on the larger ship more often than not.

 

 

We do exactly that. We do not limit our choice specifically by cost. We love HAL's so-called "S" Class ships that are in the 50,000 ton range and have sailed them hundreds of days.

 

Noordam is our other HAL favorite. She's a magnificent ship at about 82,000 ton she is mid-range at largest by today's standards.

We will sail HAL's new Eurodam (slightly larger than Noordam but under 90,000 ton) and that is the largest ship we will sail.

 

We are happiest when on Noordam and Maasdam. The huge monster of the seas ships just don't appeal to us on any level, in any way.

 

But it's great they are available for those who enjoy them. More room for you if we don't go on them. :)

 

 

I, for one, am just happy that there ARE still choices for everyone. As Philip pointed out, the smaller ships do NOT make money. This was also confirmed to me in a conversation with staff on my recent Princess cruise

 

 

 

HAL brings Maasdam to Boston every spring/summer/fall to sail Canada New England itinerary (with a 35 day break for a transatlantic round trip). I suppose they do that to lose money every year. If Maasdam was not making money each summer sailing Canada/New England at high per diems, HAL would have repositioned her long ago.

 

The per diems for those sailings are very high.

She's a GREAT ship with a fantastic crew.