Crown & Anchor Program Revisions - join the merged discussions here

[trafficlaw]

 

Well, I have my Crown and Anchor Application in front of me, the "form" date 1/02. It has the advertised benefits listed for Gold, Platinum, and Diamond. There was no Diamond Plus. It states:

"Diamond {10+ cruises completed}, Cruise Vacation Benefits, Concierge Service on select ships." In practice that was the Radiance class ships and larger, plus the Enchantment, and I think there are one or two others that have CL's. Promise? "Depends upon what "is" "is" I suppose.";)

It clearly states, if you will: "Do this and you get that." RCCL's method of fulfilling that 'promise' over the past 8 or 9 years is clear. Past practice has made it quite clear to those receiving the benefit, and those striving for that benefit, exactly what that 'benefit' was. There is no confusion here. The Diamonds fulfilled their part of that agreement, and RCI is reneging on their part of the agreement. That is dishonest.:mad:

 

By the way, just saw a piece on CNBC on 'cruise lines' which highlighted NCL. They explained that their 'repeat customers' were their 'life blood', and they could not survive without them. Maybe RCCL should change their name to "Dumbo Caribbean".;)

 

It appears RCCL had their "fingers crossed" when they made these promises!

[cruzendude]

this is one change I will not take to, IF they change this I WILL STOP cruising with RCL as I do not want to go without service...

 

I tip above the guidelines for GOOD SERVICE and have also tipped the WJ servers in addittion to the MDR when we get waited on extra special etc BUT I ALSO tip below for below average service.... and YES the towel animals is one criteria when I am traveling with my kids...

 

 

I think the tip system as is now is the ONLY and BEST WAY to keep the service level HIGH... IF they know it is coming for swure why strive... some will but will ALL OR MOST???

 

Now I have heard it all...withholding of tips for the lack of towel animals....NICE!!!! :rolleyes:

[trafficlaw]

:eek:

 

 

If the elimination of diamonds from the CL has caused an uproar, you can just imagine what would happen if they decided to take that perk away from the D+'s:eek:

 

I wonder if the Suite guests and D+ that complain about the "whiners" would remain silent if RCCL simply eliminated free drinks from the CL?

[bobisles]

The RCCL decision to elliinate Lounge access for D+ members is a terrible public relations decision. Why violate an agreement with your best customers. If the lounges are overcrowded, prohibit non member guest who coat-tail in with members. Or RCCL may want to consider current D+ members as "grandfathered" to the old rules. In any case I feel that my trust and rspect for RCCL has been severely diminished.

 

After thirty+ cruises, with 15 on RCCL I am going to switch my loyalty. I just completed a cruise on the Emerald Princess and have to say that in many respects, including food and and ship amenities, they exceeded those of my recent RCCL cruises. And, unless their policy changes back soon, I am cancelling my 28 day back to back this fall. I am also a RCCL share holder and now I have even further loss of confidence in their business savy.

[bhughey]

Whether the change in C&A benefits affect you directly or not -- when a company, a cruise line, a restaurant, etc. start raising costs, implementing new fees and reducing benefits to customers - how on earth can that be a GOOD thing?

[ws1965]

The RCCL decision to elliinate Lounge access for D+ members is a terrible public relations decision. Why violate an agreement with your best customers. If the lounges are overcrowded, prohibit non member guest who coat-tail in with members. Or RCCL may want to consider current D+ members as "grandfathered" to the old rules. In any case I feel that my trust and rspect for RCCL has been severely diminished.

 

After thirty+ cruises, with 15 on RCCL I am going to switch my loyalty. I just completed a cruise on the Emerald Princess and have to say that in many respects, including food and and ship amenities, they exceeded those of my recent RCCL cruises. And, unless their policy changes back soon, I am cancelling my 28 day back to back this fall. I am also a RCCL share holder and now I have even further loss of confidence in their business savy.

 

 

Bob, the issue is that they eliminated the CL to Diamond members. We feel that at least since we are diamond before the July 1st deadline, that we should be grandfathered and allowed to enter the CL. We are not drinkers so the free drinks dont matter to us, its just the principle. We are also stock holders and am angry that we no longer get the SH credit.

[pcur]

I discussed these changes with the Loyalty Ambassador on the Majesty last week. She informed me of them when I went to see her.

 

It was nothing new, though. She said they did not anticipate the huge numbers of Platinum and Diamond members, and it just wasn't cost effective for them to continue providing the CL privileges to everyone. When 300 - 400 show up on one ship it's hard to staff the CL properly, open up satellite bars and staff them, etc.

 

The is no cheating or skull-duggery going on here, folks. This is a businss and they provided, for a short time, some perks to certain frequent cruisers. They didn't "owe" anyone anything, and they decided (as business owners tend to do all the time) to change their product. There was never any implied or stated guarantee that these C&A perks would continue into perpetuity!!

 

So, spend your dollars as you choose. I can see how disappointing it would be to lose these perks once you were accustomed to them, but I'm not nuts about my new cable TV provider not having any PBS channels, either!! You choose what to pay for and take the products as they are delivered.

 

I am delighted, by the way, that they will / may start including automatic tipping. Our cruise last week was actually #2 in a b2b, and we were on the Constellation before the Majesty. Celebrity is automatically adding tips, and I heartily agree with the decision. It is positively shameful that these crew members are taking a hit on their salaries WHILE STILL WORKING JUST AS HARD. None of us would want to tolerate a drastic cut in pay, and neither should they. Yay for making sure they get paid!!!!

[RetireeWannabee]

Did you report the sub-par service? Scaling back the tip is something that only that staffer knows, but alerting mgmt to the problem should solve the problem.

 

I feel the same way about pre-paids or auto-tips - if the service is lacking, COMPLAIN! Don't just pay your money and stay quiet.

 

But, I tend to agree that a pre-tip is not a tip, it's a fee!

 

...I LOVE to cruise but at the point where they "add tips" then they are NO LONGER TIPS they are then fees, ...I have also been on the flip side where service was so poor that I would not ever come back, so then WHY should I tip for that... one I never even saw except when it was time for the tip to be given, he had ignored our requests for ice, for towel animals, and the room was cleaned quite poorly, so his "tip" reflected that service... but had tips been added automatically what recourse would we have?

[RetireeWannabee]

Whether the change in C&A benefits affect you directly or not -- when a company, a cruise line, a restaurant, etc. start raising costs, implementing new fees and reducing benefits to customers - how on earth can that be a GOOD thing?

If you're a stock holder, "survival of the fittest" might mean something to you. Would it be better for RC to just continue with no changes? Would you still think the same thing if you found out that they were losing money every single quarter by not adapting to the economic realities?

 

Wouldn't people shut out of the CL be angered by all the people getting free drinks instead of them? Would you want to pay the real cost of the cruise?

 

Look around, cruise lines aren't the only businesses trying to survive.

[bhughey]

If you're a stock holder, "survival of the fittest" might mean something to you. Would it be better for RC to just continue with no changes? Would you still think the same thing if you found out that they were losing money every single quarter by not adapting to the economic realities?

 

Wouldn't people shut out of the CL be angered by all the people getting free drinks instead of them? Would you want to pay the real cost of the cruise?

 

Look around, cruise lines aren't the only businesses trying to survive.

 

That is exactly my point... no matter which side of the argument you fall on - these changes *do* indicate a "survival of the fittest" climate for the cruise industry, and that is not a good position to be in... for anyone.

[ws1965]

If you're a stock holder, "survival of the fittest" might mean something to you. Would it be better for RC to just continue with no changes? Would you still think the same thing if you found out that they were losing money every single quarter by not adapting to the economic realities?

 

Wouldn't people shut out of the CL be angered by all the people getting free drinks instead of them? Would you want to pay the real cost of the cruise?

 

Look around, cruise lines aren't the only businesses trying to survive.

 

 

I am just wondering that when you retire ( see screen name) , and you expect a certain amount per month, and they tell you that in 3 months we are only going to give you half, what your reaction would be. It seems like that from your post, you would say " OK times are tough so its ok to only give me half my pension." I highly doubt this. I think you would be mad.

[trafficlaw]

 

I am delighted, by the way, that they will / may start including automatic tipping. Our cruise last week was actually #2 in a b2b, and we were on the Constellation before the Majesty. Celebrity is automatically adding tips, and I heartily agree with the decision. It is positively shameful that these crew members are taking a hit on their salaries WHILE STILL WORKING JUST AS HARD. None of us would want to tolerate a drastic cut in pay, and neither should they. Yay for making sure they get paid!!!!

 

 

As long it is included in the advertised cruise fare, I think it is a fine idea. (But if I know RCCL, they will sneak it in at the last minute of booking, kind of like their infamous fuel surcharge fiasco) In any event, the company should have been paying their wages all along anyway instead of guilting cruisers into picking up their slack. With tips included in cruise fare, cruisers can still give small, individual cash bonuses for excellent service they might receive as further incentive/reward.

[ws1965]

"Welcome to the Nation of Why Bother" ™® RCCL :D

"Sail with us or not, because Royal doesn't Care" ™® RCCL :D

Crap and Anchor Society -- Diamonique status :D

 

I LOVE IT!!

[texlatin1]

While I realise that this thread is about the taking away of C&A benefits, if I can interject to this gentleman...........that either he was in an OS on the Voyager...........which has both a shower and tub.........or is dreaming.

 

There is not a GS to the best of my knowledge, on any Royal Caribbean ship, Oasis excluded, that has both a stand up shower and bathtub in that catagory.

 

Now back to the discussion at hand.

 

Rick

 

Yes, I stand corrected, we were in an OS on the Voyager. Not that I purposely got off topic on my posted previously quoted, I was merely responding the the person who utilizes a wheelchair and inquired about this issue.

[pcur]

Did you report the sub-par service? Scaling back the tip is something that only that staffer knows, but alerting mgmt to the problem should solve the problem.

 

I feel the same way about pre-paids or auto-tips - if the service is lacking, COMPLAIN! Don't just pay your money and stay quiet.

 

But, I tend to agree that a pre-tip is not a tip, it's a fee!

 

Yes, I did report the noise and they gave me a credit toward a future cruise.

 

I don't care if we are "tipping" or "fee-ing": those crew members deserve to get paid, and we're the ones that pay it through the cruise fare, the add-on, or the tips. I just want them paid so they can continue to give me great service on my cruises. :D

[critterchick]

I am just wondering that when you retire ( see screen name) , and you expect a certain amount per month, and they tell you that in 3 months we are only going to give you half, what your reaction would be. It seems like that from your post, you would say " OK times are tough so its ok to only give me half my pension." I highly doubt this. I think you would be mad.

 

The difference being that the pension is a contracted amount. C&A benefits can be changed at any time, as posted on the RCI website. Same as the frequent flyer or frequent guest programs run by the airlines and hotels.

 

Don't get me wrong, even though I'm not currently affected by the change, I don't like it. Many of my cruising friends are "mere" Diamonds and I've been looking forward to cruising on Radiance this fall and socializing with them on RCI's nickel.:) So now RCI will save more money because I won't be in the CL as much, either. And I fully expect that D+ will get the boot in the next year or so as well.

[kauppias]

Now I have heard it all...withholding of tips for the lack of towel animals....NICE!!!! :rolleyes:

 

WHEN I cruise with my kids, I make a POINT OF TELLING the cabin attendant that it is a BIG DEAL for the kids (2 and 4 year olds) and therefore if they choose not to make them then yes that affects the amount we tip, as the service is not up to par... when I started cruising on royal there was a towel animal nearly every night, now it is dependant on the attendant whether there is any at all...

 

I have NEVER not left a tip, but the tip amount has allways been adjusted to the level of sercice received :)

[sealord]

 

There was never any implied or stated guarantee that these C&A perks would continue into perpetuity!!

 

 

You are 'kidding' right? Other than standard 'disclaimers' similar to frequent flier programs, etc. ... there certainly was at least an implied guarantee. "The more you cruise, the more you get." And, then they presented the "what you get" for each level of C&A. When it might, and for many does, take 10 years or more to achieve Diamond status, it is certainly implied that this is intended to be a "long term" committment in both directions ... loyalty is a two way street. And, I might add that no place on the C&A application itself are there 'any' disclaimers. They simply state that "complete terms and conditions available on request." Diamond members have received these benefits for approximately eight years ... so I would dispute the point that this benefit was provided for a short time, also. You can be certain that many who were looking forward to gaining the Diamond benefits for which they were 'loyal' never got there before RCCL moved the goal posts. That was and is a dishonest business practice and totally lacking any corporate integrity. If your 'loyalty' program is so successful that your 'loyal' customers exceed your capacity, the only honest thing to do is increase that capacity in order to honor your committments ... not renege on those committments and show your 'loyal' customers that they were indeed foolish to stay 'loyal' to RCCL for 6,8,10 or whatever number of cruises. It is not a good business practice to show your customers that they have been gullible and stupid. That tends to make them angry.

[missbogota]

Now I have heard it all...withholding of tips for the lack of towel animals....NICE!!!! :rolleyes:

 

Wow...lack of towel animals, so let's cut his/her tip???? This is why it is so important for RCL Management to go to automatic tips, and go ASAP!

[Ocean Boy]

I am just wondering that when you retire ( see screen name) , and you expect a certain amount per month, and they tell you that in 3 months we are only going to give you half, what your reaction would be. It seems like that from your post, you would say " OK times are tough so its ok to only give me half my pension." I highly doubt this. I think you would be mad.

 

When I started working the rules were that I could retire at age 65 and collect full social security benefits. They changed the rules and the age on me mid game. Chances are that before I reach that new age they will either move the "goal post" again, there will be no funds left for me to collect, or some sort of means test will be applied. I will get less, or nothing at all, after paying into the system for years. Hmmm, seems just like RCI's C&A program. Oh, except that with RCI one has the choice to opt out.

 

So I think you just made the point for RCI's side. The rules get changed. People don't like it. It is the way it is.

[Ocean Boy]

Wow...lack of towel animals, so let's cut his/her tip???? This is why it is so important for RCL Management to go to automatic tips, and go ASAP!

 

I really dislike the concept of automatic tips for many reasons that are really the subjects for other threads. But sometimes I have to shake my head and at least acknowlege why it may be moving in that direction.

[Ocean Boy]

The RCCL decision to elliinate Lounge access for D+ members is a terrible public relations decision. Why violate an agreement with your best customers. If the lounges are overcrowded, prohibit non member guest who coat-tail in with members. Or RCCL may want to consider current D+ members as "grandfathered" to the old rules. In any case I feel that my trust and rspect for RCCL has been severely diminished.

 

After thirty+ cruises, with 15 on RCCL I am going to switch my loyalty. I just completed a cruise on the Emerald Princess and have to say that in many respects, including food and and ship amenities, they exceeded those of my recent RCCL cruises. And, unless their policy changes back soon, I am cancelling my 28 day back to back this fall. I am also a RCCL share holder and now I have even further loss of confidence in their business savy.

 

This really has peaked my curiosity a bit. With 30 cruises behind you and all of the really interesting threads on these boards, what exaclty was it about THIS thread that motivated you enough to register at C.C. and start posting? As I said, just curious.

[texlatin1]

Wow...lack of towel animals, so let's cut his/her tip???? This is why it is so important for RCL Management to go to automatic tips, and go ASAP!

 

Certainly even when and if they do go to automatic tipping, gratuities should still be able to be adjusted according to service offered. I know Carnival takes out gratuities up front and we have in the past adjusted these gratuities and added more. Only once on a Carnival cruise have we taken away and that was because we had terrible stateroom service.:cool:

[RetireeWannabee]

I am just wondering that when you retire ( see screen name) , and you expect a certain amount per month, and they tell you that in 3 months we are only going to give you half, what your reaction would be. It seems like that from your post, you would say " OK times are tough so its ok to only give me half my pension." I highly doubt this. I think you would be mad.

I will not receive a pension, so that won't be an issue. I have a 401k plan (defined contribution) and will take from it as I see fit as it is owned by me. Some years I expect to take more, and others I will take less. There will be dividends from investments I already have, and if I'm lucky, Social Security will still exist (I do not count on that). I don't actually plan to ever stop working.

 

But, retirement planning/living is not what this discussion is about.

 

Taking "preferred customer benefits" away is not the same as a legally binding contract to receive specified monies over specified periods of time, such as an annuity would give you. Not the same at all. However, I do feel for those whose pensions have been grabbed away from them. My best friend's mother was in that situation a long time ago so in her late 70s is still working because she has to. Doubt use of a concierge lounge would give her much consolation.

[RetireeWannabee]

Possibly take the towel folding class and make them for your children yourself?

 

I, personally, would rather have a clean bathroom that a towel animal, but perhaps al a carte room service is coming: cabin steward has 30 minutes, what would you prefer done in your cabin??