A Word About Formal Night Appearance

[Robin7]

[quote name='fridayeyes']Example: Two of my good friends including my cruise buddy travel with a laptop and a piece of medical equipment called a CPAP. Neither item can go as checked luggage. That's two carry-ons right there and the airlines won't let them take anything else aboard the plane.[/quote]

Your friend needs to look up Air Carrier Access Act 14 CFR Part 382.41, specifically part D which says: Carriers shall not, in implementing their carry-on baggage policies, count toward a limit on carry-on items any assistive device brought into the cabin by a qualified individual with a disability.

Sleep apnea is a disablity under the Americans with Disabilites Act. I printed the entire ACA Act 14 CFR Part 382 and keep it in my CPAP bag so if I'm questioned, I can pull it out and educate them on the FAA regulations. I've flown a lot since getting my CPAP last fall, and I haven't had a problem yet.

I take my roll aboard, my purse, AND my CPAP. I've never been questioned.

Google it. Whoever has told her her CPAP counts as one of her 1+1s for carry on is dead WRONG (as long as it's an American Carrier she's using. I had to adhere to the usual regs when flying between the US/Australia/New Zealand on Qantas).

Robin

[debshomespun]

We enjoy "dressing up" for formal night. I don't really notice what all the other passengers are wearing. Doesn't matter to me. I have been on cruises where people have had their luggage lost. Or, maybe there are other extenuating circumstances as to why someone isn't "dressed properly" for formal night.

[fridayeyes]

[quote name='Robin7']Your friend needs to look up Air Carrier Access Act 14 CFR Part 382.41, specifically part D which says: Carriers shall not, in implementing their carry-on baggage policies, count toward a limit on carry-on items any assistive device brought into the cabin by a qualified individual with a disability.

Robin[/QUOTE]


Oooooh! Excellent. I'll tell both of them right away! My male friend with the CPAP, an agent once tried to tell him he couldn't board with it and tried to make him check it or not fly. They had no idea what it was and didn't believe it was a medical device. (Awful funny looking for a bomb...) Things got a bit... heated.

Thanks bunches!

Friday

[Harry1954]

[quote name='babyher']Like I mentioned in an above post, These are people who just have to mind everyone elses business be it on a cruise ship or at home, work, wherever. they don't need to know "the facts". They see, they dislike , they judge.[/quote]
In my posting I was not suggesting we should mind others business .. I was merely pointing out that what IMHO is the reason many get bent out of shape is that they believe, rightly or wrongly, that others are 'not following the rules' .. Americans use to believe in the rule of law and justice prevailing. Unfortunately for some, this is out the window and it is every person for themselves .. it is the themselves crowd that is the [U]problem[/U] and yes, Copper, it is a problem - not one that I intend to attempt to police - but still one anyway. For when rules are allowed to be broken anarchy reigns. Hence, the dining room manager should attempt to properly enforce the rules or else GET RID of them.

For those who are concerned about lost luggage - it happened to me on one B2B trip - gone 30 days and for the first 10 or so I had no luggage. Now I was fortunate - my wife at the last minute had packed in her suitcase a) my speedo and b) my artic gloves. We were going first to North Cape and Spitzbergen and then down to Italy ... hence the extremes. Now, I could have shown up on formal night in my speedo - but I chose to attempt to follow the rules. I begged and borrowed from fellow pax and crew and had sufficient clothes to a) have a jacket b) a tie all for formal night. I try to follow the rules .. I know, bfd ... but still .. the ones who are self-serving will not follow them period. And that is indeed the problem.

harry

[carlmm]

Just imagine, there were more than 30 people whose luggage was lost on my last cruise.
So they had to run around in shorts and t-shirt on formal night - not, of course. They were all appropriately dressed, most men just rented tuxes on board, people bought something in the shop, borrowed items from others passengers or even staff etc.
A few items did not match but they just made the effort. One man was not able not find black dress shoes in his size, another one showed up with white socks, allright, even this problem was solved after the first port stop.
It is not like there are no shop and no friendly helpful people around.

[michmike]

1979 - "teacher... teacher... johnny's chewing gum..."

2009 - "did you see those rule breakers?"

relax.. enjoy.. do what YOU know is right and don't sweat what everyone else is doing.. you're on VACATION... and in this economy too many of us lose sight of just how fortunate we are to even be able to travel

this isn't worth all the angst

[singlecruiser70]

[quote name='lettienets']Just in case of lost/delayed luggage I carry on my best formal night outfit, (the one most expensive to replace) a bathing suit, sling backs, undies and a casual outfit. Then I am all set for any unforeseen problem.[/quote]
I do it a little differently. I wear my formal outfit without a tie, (its in my pocket), during embarking. That way, I don't have to worry about it getting wrinkeled or stained with the broken wine bottle.:D

Have a nice day
Dick

[fridayeyes]

Reminds me a bit of the sock inspectors when I went to high school in Brazil. One school was Protestant and the other Catholic though both were considered 'public'. One uniform called for tan pants and navy socks while the other called for brown pants and black socks. The gate to get in was only wide enough for one person at a time and as you passed thru, you had to hitch both pantlegs so the sock inspector could root out any offenders.

If your pants were the wrong shade of tan/brown, you got sent home. If your socks were the wrong color (black instead of brown), didn't match, were entirely missing (*gasp!*) or were simply not a dark enough shade of the proper color, you got sent home. If the proper patch or a single button was missing from your regulation white shirt... you get the picture.

On the upside, all you had to do to get a skip day was make sure there was an issue with your socks. ;)

On a tangent, the school lunch was... interesting. I vividly remember being handed a bowl of thick spaghetti noodles colored a shocking yellow. Something about the texture/sheen seemed odd to me, and I inverted the bowl in the air to see what would happen. Not a single noodle moved.

[fridayeyes]

[quote name='michmike']1979 - "teacher... teacher... johnny's chewing gum..."

[/QUOTE]

LOL!! OMG, don't get me started. I have a kid in grade school right now.

"Teacher, teacher! He's holding a book in line." I kid you not. My child was spoken to for holding/reading a book. Can't let 'em read books in school, you know. It might lead to independent thinking and then where would we be??

[michmike]

[quote name='fridayeyes']LOL!! OMG, don't get me started. I have a kid in grade school right now.

"Teacher, teacher! He's holding a book in line." I kid you not. My child was spoken to for holding/reading a book. Can't let 'em read books in school, you know. It might lead to independent thinking and then where would we be??[/QUOTE]

laffin.. well I'm a 12 yr old trapped in a 61 yr old's body, so wasn't too impressed when I was in the library a month or so ago and this 7 yr old girl was patiently waiting as her mom looked thru the video rental ring binder and the little girl tugged on mom and exclaimed.. "Mom! That old man has 7 books!"

I sulked the rest of the day.

[lettienets]

[quote=Cruisin' Ron VA;19018851]How easy is that? You tell us.
That is a lot of stuff to pack in a carry on bag. The airlines are becoming a lot less friendly these days as well.
Could you please share with us your secret?
Do you always pack this way?[/quote]
I don't think this is a lot of stuff in a carryon case that is regulation size. One evening dress/pant suit, a pair of long pants, 1 top, 2 undies and a pair of dress shoes/sling backs and bathing suit. Fits in my carryon case 9x13x20", which I would rather take than get separated by accident from all my luggage. And I can go in the pool at sailaway or hot tub and have something to wear to dinner. Do it for every cruise.

[babyher]

[quote name='fridayeyes']Reminds me a bit of the sock inspectors when I went to high school in Brazil. One school was Protestant and the other Catholic though both were considered 'public'. One uniform called for tan pants and navy socks while the other called for brown pants and black socks. The gate to get in was only wide enough for one person at a time and as you passed thru, you had to hitch both pantlegs so the sock inspector could root out any offenders.

If your pants were the wrong shade of tan/brown, you got sent home. If your socks were the wrong color (black instead of brown), didn't match, were entirely missing (*gasp!*) or were simply not a dark enough shade of the proper color, you got sent home. If the proper patch or a single button was missing from your regulation white shirt... you get the picture.

On the upside, all you had to do to get a skip day was make sure there was an issue with your socks. ;)

On a tangent, the school lunch was... interesting. I vividly remember being handed a bowl of thick spaghetti noodles colored a shocking yellow. Something about the texture/sheen seemed odd to me, and I inverted the bowl in the air to see what would happen. Not a single noodle moved.[/quote]

*LOL* I am a Catholic school survivor myself. I remember them taking a ruler and measureing the length of the girls skirts.

One little 7th grade harlot had the nerve to not only have her skirt too short , but actually wore dangeling earrings AND lip gloss on the same day.

Sister Mary Mengele told her if she wanted to look like that, she should try out as a Goldigger on The Dean Martin Show. (This was in the early 70s)

[tuckmics]

First, I want to say that the reason we are sailing on HAL to Alaska is because it is highly recommended and meets our vacation needs (quiet, relaxing, possibly older clientele and less families/children, great service, etc). We had decided early on that we were not going to eat in the dining room on Formal Nights (and possibly not any other night). We don't want to carry formal attire on board. I'm sure I will be flamed for this, but will say it anyway. Comments by some seem to infer that if you don't want to "dress up" then you should sail on another cruise line. Well, sorry but we can sail on any cruise line we want. It isn't anyone's business. We certainly will have "appropriate" attire for the Smart Casual nights and will possibly eat in the dining room. However, as many have stated here, the discussion of Formal Night seems to revolve around the dining room but you see others discussing any public area of the ship. This is a vacation, not a Catholic School and the idea of these stringent dress codes are antiquated at best. No, I won't be wearing cut offs and baseball caps, but I am not going to be brow beaten into wearing tuxs or suits when I am strolling the deck or sitting in the lounge. I wouldn't dress that way at home and certainly won't be doing so on vacation. Folks need to realize that the world is more casual than it was in 1850 and we need to move along. In particular, the Pacific NW is more casual and you will rarely see people wearing tuxs and evening gowns to even the most "formal" events (and let me tell you that I have been to plenty). I realize that people, particularly from other parts of the country/world may not agree with that, but that is the way it is. For those who want to dress to the nines, please do, but do not place judgement on me.

[kryos]

[quote name='Harry1954']We can dance around the real problem if we want, but I suggest that we should confront it - no one likes 'rule breakers' - and when someone who consciously did not pack appropriate clothes for formal night decides to go anyway, they are 'breaking the rules' - and most of us resent it. If they did not have alternative choices such as Lido or Room Service or Poolside, then it would be different. The truth is they are self-centered and not willing to follow the rules - make up their own instead. These folks are the real problem IMHO and whether we pay attention to them or not while dining is irrelevant.

harry[/QUOTE]
And in that case, Harry, I would suggest you have a quiet word with the matre 'd ... "do you really feel they are dressed for the main dining room?" Then it is up to the Matre 'd to handle it, not you. You don't know the specific circumstances and therefore have no right to meddle. Maybe that family had a piece of luggage containing all of their formal wear lost in transit. Maybe the front desk, who has been trying deligently to get it to the ship before sailing ... but failed ... has been working on the problem with them. Maybe the front desk has already spoken to the dining room manager about the "problem" and made arrangements for the family to be able to eat there sans formal wear. You don't know the specific details and by saying something to those people, all you will do is possibly embarrass or even anger them ... and that's not good, nor even fair to them.

Yes, there are other venues in which to dine ... but did you ever consider that maybe this "inappropriately" dressed family cruises specifically to enjoy elegant dinners in the formal dining room? Maybe at home, for various reasons, they just don't get a chance to dine out very often. When they are on a cruise that experience is one of the major things they look forward to.

All I am saying is that it is not other passengers' place to "correct" or "educate" their fellow passengers regarding appropriate styles of dress, or anything else concerning their cruise experience. HAL has onboard staff for that purpose. They are paid to maintain order and have the authority of the captain of the ship behind them. If something another passenger is doing (or not doing) bothers you that much, then you need to go to the appropriate HAL employee (in the case of the dining room the matre 'd or a head waiter) and get him to handle the matter. Then, of course, if he doesn't handle it to your satisfaction, you then go to the front desk later on that evening if it truly bothers you. If no one handles it, then you are certainly free in the future to find another cruise line which would more appropriately meet your comfort level ... may I suggest Cunard?

But neither I nor you are in a position to play "cop" with our fellow passengers, and frankly, I would be more offended by the behavior of a fellow passenger who did that than I would be by the person who didn't dress appropriately for dinner.

Just my opinion.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

[quote name='babyher']And remember Rita, these self appointed police officers don't just limit themselves to cruiseships. they are usually the "Mrs Kravitz' of the neighborhood, the supplyroom police at work etc etc etc. :([/QUOTE]
Supply room police ... yes ... how well I know.

That's the nice thing about working the overnight shift. I just "midnight requisition" anything I need. Just like one of the security officers told me ... as long as that item never goes out the front door, it's not stealing ... rather it's simply a "reallocation of company resources" ... nothing wrong with it at all. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

[quote name='jhannah']It almost used to be that way! In the early years of flight, folks dressed to the nines to travel![/QUOTE]I have a co-worker whose brother works for one of the major airlines. He told me ... if you ever want to maximize your chances of getting a free upgrade to first class, dress up for the flight. When there are a couple of extra seats in first class that need to be filled, the gate agent will always choose the better dressed people to upgrade ... not the ones wearing tee-shirts and flipflops. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

[quote name='Boytjie']Is it OK to be self-centered enough to wear shorts, flip-flops, a tank top and baseball cap into the dining room any night? :rolleyes:

Or is there only a certain level of self-centeredness that is tolerated, and what would that threshold be?[/QUOTE]No, it most certainly isn't ... and even I ... a formal night "renegade" ... would not try that ... on either a formal OR a casual night. Simply put, it's over the top. But then, I would like to assume, the person walking into the dining room so dressed wouldn't make it past the matre 'd podium. It's his job to tell them they are not appropriately dressed, and I would imagine in a case such as this, he would.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[babyher]

[quote name='kryos']And in that case, Harry, I would suggest you have a quiet word with the matre 'd ... "do you really feel they are dressed for the main dining room?" Then it is up to the Matre 'd to handle it, not you. You don't know the specific circumstances and therefore have no right to meddle. Maybe that family had a piece of luggage containing all of their formal wear lost in transit. Maybe the front desk, who has been trying deligently to get it to the ship before sailing ... but failed ... has been working on the problem with them. Maybe the front desk has already spoken to the dining room manager about the "problem" and made arrangements for the family to be able to eat there sans formal wear. You don't know the specific details and by saying something to those people, all you will do is possibly embarrass or even anger them ... and that's not good, nor even fair to them.

Yes, there are other venues in which to dine ... but did you ever consider that maybe this "inappropriately" dressed family cruises specifically to enjoy elegant dinners in the formal dining room? Maybe at home, for various reasons, they just don't get a chance to dine out very often. When they are on a cruise that experience is one of the major things they look forward to.

All I am saying is that it is not other passengers' place to "correct" or "educate" their fellow passengers regarding appropriate styles of dress, or anything else concerning their cruise experience. HAL has onboard staff for that purpose. They are paid to maintain order and have the authority of the captain of the ship behind them. If something another passenger is doing (or not doing) bothers you that much, then you need to go to the appropriate HAL employee (in the case of the dining room the matre 'd or a head waiter) and get him to handle the matter. Then, of course, if he doesn't handle it to your satisfaction, you then go to the front desk later on that evening if it truly bothers you. If no one handles it, then you are certainly free in the future to find another cruise line which would more appropriately meet your comfort level ... may I suggest Cunard?

But neither I nor you are in a position to play "cop" with our fellow passengers, and frankly, I would be more offended by the behavior of a fellow passenger who did that than I would be by the person who didn't dress appropriately for dinner.

Just my opinion.

Blue skies ...

--rita[/quote]

Once again I agree with you Rita.

I am trying to put myself in the maitre D's place.

Someone comes up to me and tells me some fellow pax are upsetting their meal. They point them out and there is a nice family, sitting at a table, quietly enjoying their meal, having polite conversation, enjoying themselves and not hurting a soul.

I am going to hurt and embaress them at their table by walking up to them and adviseing them they have to leave because someone is bothered by their dockers and polo shirt??????

[babyher]

[quote name='kryos']Supply room police ... yes ... how well I know.

That's the nice thing about working the overnight shift. I just "midnight requisition" anything I need. Just like one of the security officers told me ... as long as that item never goes out the front door, it's not stealing ... rather it's simply a "reallocation of company resources" ... nothing wrong with it at all. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita[/quote]

Oh yea same here , no one is bringing anything home, we just need it while we are at work.

[kryos]

[quote name='geoherb']One of the reasons we like to fly down the day before the cruise is so that any luggage mistakes will hopefully be solved before we get on the ship. We have dined with people who were not dressed appropriately on formal nights. For one couple, on their honeymoon, they just did not know better. I blame their travel agent. The husband made an effort by wearing a tie without a jacket. And I'm glad they decided to come to dinner on formal nights even without being prepared because everyone at the table would have missed them if they had not been there.
[/QUOTE]
I thank God I had a decent travel agent on my first cruise who took out a half hour of his time on the telephone to "educate" me about the customs of cruising. To be honest, I wouldn't have even known to pack formal wear if I wanted to dine in the main dining room. He told me what the guidelines were, but was very quick to reassure me when I expressed discomfort, that I was certainly free to eat in the Lido on those nights (I think there were only three of them) or to enjoy room service in my cabin.

As for heading to the pier a day ahead of time, no question ... this is a great idea. Sadly, however, some of us are simply unable to do this for various reasons ... job schedules, availability of vacation time, etc. ... and therefore, we must take our chances and just hope for the best.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[HALFans]

[quote name='kryos']...Yes, there are other venues in which to dine ... but did you ever consider that maybe this "inappropriately" dressed family cruises specifically to enjoy elegant dinners in the formal dining room? Maybe at home, for various reasons, they just don't get a chance to dine out very often. When they are on a cruise that experience is one of the major things they look forward to.[/QUOTE]

Rita,

You said it yourself, they're there to "enjoy elegant dinners in the FORMAL dining room".

On formal nights let them dress for the experience, or eat elsewhere in the venue provided for appropriately (un)dressed people... the Lido - Informal dining room.

The Formal experience is one of the things I look forward to.

[kryos]

[quote name='babyher']Once again I agree with you Rita.

I am trying to put myself in the maitre D's place.

Someone comes up to me and tells me some fellow pax are upsetting their meal. They point them out and there is a nice family, sitting at a table, quietly enjoying their meal, having polite conversation, enjoying themselves and not hurting a soul.

I am going to hurt and embaress them at their table by walking up to them and adviseing them they have to leave because someone is bothered by their dockers and polo shirt??????[/QUOTE]
I had a couple of very extensive talks with the matre 'd on my last cruise ... actually they call them dining room managers today. I was writing a lot of artcles, and one of them was about dining room service so we had a lot of opportunity to chat.

He told me quite candidly ... and I certainly am paraphrasing here ... because he didn't put it in quite these words ... that the dress code rules were a pain in his a** ... he said that he's "dammed" if he does, and "dammed" if he doesn't enforce them. He told me it wasn't such a big problem on our cruise, a 35-day one, because most of the passengers dressed more than appropriately in the main dining room, but on the shorter cruises (like the Alaska season they just finished before our cruise) he really has his hands full because a lot of the people who take them are more informal to begin with. They won't think anything about coming to the dining room on a formal night with a simple pair of slacks and a button down, open at the collar shirt. Technically, that's against the dress code, and he shouldn't allow them in. But often he said he will have to gauge the overall level of dress in the dining room that night, and make his enforcement decisions based on that. In other words, if there are a goodly number of people not dressed formally, he will let it go. If there are only one or two, then he will probably request that they head back to their stateroom and get a jacket.

But he said ... regardless of how he handles it, he gets some gruff from someone, and it's always a losing battle for him since someone will always complain no matter how he chooses to handle it.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

[quote name='tuckmics']Comments by some seem to infer that if you don't want to "dress up" then you should sail on another cruise line. Well, sorry but we can sail on any cruise line we want. It isn't anyone's business. We certainly will have "appropriate" attire for the Smart Casual nights and will possibly eat in the dining room. However, as many have stated here, the discussion of Formal Night seems to revolve around the dining room but you see others discussing any public area of the ship. This is a vacation, not a Catholic School and the idea of these stringent dress codes are antiquated at best. No, I won't be wearing cut offs and baseball caps, but I am not going to be brow beaten into wearing tuxs or suits when I am strolling the deck or sitting in the lounge. I wouldn't dress that way at home and certainly won't be doing so on vacation. [/QUOTE]
I think you are fine ... in any venue on the ship ... in casual clothing in the evenings. Yes, it used to be that HAL requested you stay off the public decks on formal nights if you did not choose to dress formally, but today that no longer applies. As long as you are wearing a nice casual outfit ... no shorts, flipflops, etc. ... you can sit in any lounge you choose and enjoy a drink. You can also go to the show, play in the casino, browse the shops ... and do just about anything else you'd like to do. In fact, on some cruises, you can even dine in the main dining room in a nice "resort casual" outfit on formal night and no one on the staff will bat an eyelash, because there will be lots of other people dressed the same way. What's HAL gonna do? Start sending everyone back to their cabins for a jacket? The Lido manager would kill the dining room manager if all of a sudden he had this huge influx of passengers showing up to eat ... people he is not staffed to handle ... all because the dining room manager sent them all packing. So, even as to the main dining room ... it's gonna depend on the cruise and how the majority of your fellow passengers decide to come dressed that evening.

Let's put this whole thing into perspective ... and it also explains why you could even choose to eat in the main dining room on a formal night dressed in what would basically be resort casual wear ... HAL, just like all cruise lines, is squeezed financially today. They want happy passengers onboard who will freely spend money. If you are sitting in your cabin having dinner from room service, and then watching a movie on a DVD you brought along with you, you are not spending money. If you drink from that bottle of wine sitting in your cabin, rather than sit in a lounge, enjoying the music and sipping a cocktail you bought there, HAL makes nothing.

So, rest assured, HAL has no problem with people in casual wear enjoying the ship in the evening, even if it is a formal night ... because when you are out and about, it's cha ching! And that makes HAL happy.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[skayebs]

My husband and I just returned from the Panama Canal on the Zuiderdam. We did not take any formal clothing with us, although we did have smart casual clothing. We only used it when we ate at the Pinacle on smart casual nights of course. The rest of the time we ate in the Lido. That was fine, we didn't want to dress up so the Lido was for us.

I did mind the expectation that we were to hide out in our rooms and not be seen in the public areas of the ship in less than proper dress. We did go to the casino where we found other casual diners. We didn't go to any of the shows or lounges as we didn't want to be "breaking the rules". It did make me decide that I would never cruise on HAL again.

We live in Houston, which is an area that is very casual. I know of only one restaurant that requires a jacket. Only private functions require a tux. It is the way people live here and we like having a casual life style.

Why go on vacation and have to dress formally for dinner? No reason to do so unless you want to.

[RuthC]

[quote name='kryos']Yes, it used to be that HAL requested you stay off the public decks on formal nights if you did not choose to dress formally, but today that no longer applies. [/quote]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=royalblue]HAL still makes that request. It's compliance and enforcement that is lacking. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]