Never been there and I'm never going back!

[paulinuk]

I dont wish to go to the faroes, they drive whales dolphins etc into the bay harbour? And kill all, by stabbing chopping its horrible, its done every year

[k9x8]

I would have to put Israel, Ephesus, etc. on my list. Even though my wife is Jewish and has a cousin in Israel, I have experienced tourism where religious tourism is also around. Even though I am sure that the locations are beautiful and historic, having people on the cruise or tour who are only there for the religious experience seems to be depressing to me. I just don't understand why they would go halfway around the world to see a place where a man was killed 2000 years ago.

 

 

That is just my personal opinion. I know some will differ, and that is your right. Me, give me a scenery and good food and happy passengers, and I will be happy.

 

I understand your not wanting to share a trip with those on a religious pilgrimage; indeed, I somewhat agree.

 

However ... as cruise mom says, those places are drenched in history. I take it a step further- the religious aspects of Israel and Ephesus and so many other places are woven into the heritage of every Westerner. Ancient history IS religion.

 

That doesn't mean you have to be a believer to appreciate, say, the historical importance of the journeys of Paul. You don't have to believe that the bones of Peter are underneath the Vatican (and as a skeptic, I have my doubts) to understand the historical significance of that site. That underground tour was fascinating, because it was a journey from the old religion to the new.

 

Sacred sites are my favorite places to visit. Our guide at Ephesus explained that the House of the Virgin Mary is on a place considered sacred since "the time of Mother Earth." Delos: the birthplace of Apollo. Delfoi: the belly button of the Earth. This past year, I released my mother's ashes into the wind at Tara, the sacred center of Ireland.

 

Scenery and good food make for a great vacation, and it really enjoy both. But give me history, especially pre-Christian history, and I am most happy. The history of humankind is written religion; it is how our ancestors explained both catastrophic events and more personal things, like birth and death. Religion was part of daily life and the way many were governed, hence the magnificent temples we visit. I will never forget my first temples. It was at Paestum, in southern Italy, and tears rolled down my cheeks as I stood and beheld them.

 

It's not just that a man was killed 2000 years ago; it is a great transition period in our history.

 

Again, I do understand your reluctance to be on board with people visiting places in a matter of worship, but I would never let religion, or lack thereof, keep me from immersing myself in sacred sites. Heck, I've known folks who would never consider visiting St. Peter's simply because it's Catholic. I've known others who think of pagan sites like battlefields, where Christianity triumphed.

 

My only regret is knowing there are so many places no longer safe to visit. Even worse is the destruction of ancient sites and artifacts by intolerant fanatics.

 

This has been a very interesting thread. Still, I find many of the things posted before its recent resurrection to be somewhat disturbing. Given the opportunity (time and money), there's no place I wouldn't visit. Travel should vanquish intolerance, not increase it.

[Floridiana]

Travel should vanquish intolerance, not increase it.

 

True, but many people on cc do not travel. They cruise for the ship or to escape winter or "to do" a site they thought they would have "to do". I sometimes read requests for "can I have my brand of yoghurt/soda pop/whisky/kale breakfast drink/any kind of special food without medical or religious reasons." This is not the kind of travel to widen horizons.

[kimlovesfl]

My dream vacation, since I was a small child, has always been an African safari, and I fear I will never get to do this, not only because of financial constraints, but because so much of that part of the world is no longer safe to visit. Sad.

 

I have no large desire to visit Antarctica, because I hate the cold, although I imagine it is indeed beautiful. The rest of the world is OK for me, I would go almost anywhere given the chance.

[k9x8]

True, but many people on cc do not travel. They cruise for the ship or to escape winter or "to do" a site they thought they would have "to do". I sometimes read requests for "can I have my brand of yoghurt/soda pop/whisky/kale breakfast drink/any kind of special food without medical or religious reasons." This is not the kind of travel to widen horizons.

 

When all is said and done, cruising is not cultural immersion. One of the downsides is the sameness. There are exceptions of course, but as far as food selection and wine lists, we could be Anywhere USA.

 

We never had any desire to cruise. We own a boarding kennel, and many of our customers take cruises. One sent us a postcard from Santorini, and my husband stared wistfully at that postcard for several years. So, after three land trips to Italy, we decided to try it as a way to get a taste of Greece.

 

For us, it's all about the destination. Things like kale and yogurt aren't part of the equation, nor are drink packages, entertainment, and all the other minutia I read about here. We look for a good meal in port for the local food and wine, then top off at the buffet for supper.

 

We will never get rewards perks on any cruise line, because we pick the ship that goes where we want to go, and because we alternate cruises and land trips.

 

Maybe someday we'll have the leisure of cruising simply for the pleasure of being at sea. With only two weeks per year, we look for seven night cruises so we have time afterwards to visit more of Italy. (In six visits, there is still much more to see in Rome!) We splurge, not on suites or luxury, but the occasional private driver. They have all been founts of information.

 

I truly fail to see how a person can condemn an entire country based on one day in port.

[slidergirl]

I'll agree with both on the religious/non-religious aspects of travel in Israel. Been there twice with my now-ex when he was there for business. Both times, we went to Caesarea - love that place. We drove up in the Carmel hills to the Carmelite monastery on top - amazing view down into the valley. Drive through the Druze villages on the way back to Tel Aviv. The drive through to Tiberius and the Sea of Galilee is beautiful. Masada is an amazing piece of history and architecture. Jerusalem left me in conflict. Yes, it is historically significant on so many fronts. But, it was somewhat like Disneyland for me. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre was especially Disney-like: Waited in line with a group of Filipino pilgrims who sang hymns and praise songs the entire time. We were then finally allowed to enter the shrine and given a whopping maybe 15 seconds inside before being ushered out. Wanted to, but didn't get a chance, to visit Al-Aqsa mosque ("the Dome of the Rock"), but we were there both times on Friday afternoon, and were not permitted access (Israeli police wielding automatic weapons shooed us away).

Cruises are mostly for "drive by" tourism - either hitting the tourist bars and beaches and getting drunk or the quick stop at a landmark so one may check it off the "hey friends, look at all the places I've been" list. When I cruise, I prefer to go off the path, to places where the other 2,000 people on the ship are NOT going to. I like the Caribbean, but not on a cruise.

If I followed the State Department list, I would never have gone to Israel in 1998 (when Saddam was lobbing scuds), nor Eqypt and Jordan, nor London…everyone has to find their comfort zone and follow it.

[greatam]

If I followed the State Department list, I would never have gone to Israel in 1998 (when Saddam was lobbing scuds), nor Eqypt and Jordan, nor London…everyone has to find their comfort zone and follow it.

 

Ain't that the truth!!! 1/2 of those State Dept warnings are written by people in Washington who call some admin in-pick a country. "Oh, yes, it is very bad over here-we had a murder yesterday." Rarely do the State Dept employees seek info from "legal attache's" which are very often CIA operatives who really are tuned into what is going on. Instead they rely on behind the desk people in country who THINK they know what is going on.

 

There are still warnings about going into Kuwait (as a general rule, most Kuwaiti's LOVE Americans) and into parts of Peru (FARC is still operational yes-but most tourists aren't going to the Peruvian/Columbian border deep in the jungle where FARC operates).

 

I take most of those State Dept warnings with a huge dose of salt. Better info in Financial Times, BBC and sometimes even CNN.

[grand isle joe]

Ain't that the truth!!! 1/2 of those State Dept warnings are written by people in Washington who call some admin in-pick a country. "Oh, yes, it is very bad over here-we had a murder yesterday." Rarely do the State Dept employees seek info from "legal attache's" which are very often CIA operatives who really are tuned into what is going on. Instead they rely on behind the desk people in country who THINK they know what is going on.

 

There are still warnings about going into Kuwait (as a general rule, most Kuwaiti's LOVE Americans) and into parts of Peru (FARC is still operational yes-but most tourists aren't going to the Peruvian/Columbian border deep in the jungle where FARC operates).

 

I take most of those State Dept warnings with a huge dose of salt. Better info in Financial Times, BBC and sometimes even CNN.

 

.......name one thing the government doesn't screw up?

[Mary Ellen]

.......name one thing the government doesn't screw up?

Congress does a pretty decent job with their own pay raises and perks. :rolleyes:

[Karysa]

I'll agree with both on the religious/non-religious aspects of travel in Israel. Been there twice with my now-ex when he was there for business. Both times, we went to Caesarea - love that place. We drove up in the Carmel hills to the Carmelite monastery on top - amazing view down into the valley. Drive through the Druze villages on the way back to Tel Aviv. The drive through to Tiberius and the Sea of Galilee is beautiful. Masada is an amazing piece of history and architecture. Jerusalem left me in conflict. Yes, it is historically significant on so many fronts. But, it was somewhat like Disneyland for me. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre was especially Disney-like: Waited in line with a group of Filipino pilgrims who sang hymns and praise songs the entire time. We were then finally allowed to enter the shrine and given a whopping maybe 15 seconds inside before being ushered out. Wanted to, but didn't get a chance, to visit Al-Aqsa mosque ("the Dome of the Rock"), but we were there both times on Friday afternoon, and were not permitted access (Israeli police wielding automatic weapons shooed us away).

Cruises are mostly for "drive by" tourism - either hitting the tourist bars and beaches and getting drunk or the quick stop at a landmark so one may check it off the "hey friends, look at all the places I've been" list. When I cruise, I prefer to go off the path, to places where the other 2,000 people on the ship are NOT going to. I like the Caribbean, but not on a cruise.

If I followed the State Department list, I would never have gone to Israel in 1998 (when Saddam was lobbing scuds), nor Eqypt and Jordan, nor London…everyone has to find their comfort zone and follow it.

 

I don't think that I would be interested to see any place that scud missiles were being lobbed in to. :eek: This does remind me off a funny story though. During the second round of SARS in 2002-03 one of the Dr's from the north part of Toronto was dealing with SARS patients, and relatives from Isreal decided not to come on their planned visit and instead offered to have his wife and their 2 children come visit and stay with them. This was during a time that Isreal had many suicide bombings. They turned them down and thought that at the time Isreal would be at the bottom of their list of places to go. You are right everyone has their comfort zone and this story reminded me of just that.

[WupperAV]

Nagasaki. I believe we rub the Atomic Bomb in Japans face. I also don't like all the Germ-a-phobic Japanese because they aren't very smart. They wear a mask to keep gems out but it isn't a surgical mask so it protects you from them. Did like the coffee on "every" corner.

Vietnam: Same **** hole it was as in 1968-69 and stinks like rotten garbage on a 120 degree day in a garbage bin.

Nassau: someone slashed my hand with a razor.

I've been in all the states, 18 countries and want to see S America next.

BTW/There are warnings against travel in Italy if you look hard enough.

Edited March 9, 2015 by WupperAV

[jamessemaj]

My travels would only be limited by the horror of air travel. Don't care in the least about religion, but religious sites are history, which does appeal to me. Cold places are a no for me now in old age, although I have been to Alaska and to Ushuaia, which is about 500 miles from Antartica. If I can ride a boat there, not a plane, I would be open to every place.