vsgnorwich

Thank you so much DeltaQueenie for the fabulous photos - that red circle gives it such perspective. From the photos on the internet we had seen, we had decided not to do this tour, but now we will relook. It would be great to hear from others too of what they did or enjoyed in town locally.

Hello. I would be very grateful if people would like to post how they found Isafjordur, especially any trips, either Princess or independent. Thanks 

Should be the same on P&O, but somehow a significant number of passengers were ashore with major mobility issues that meant they were unable to separate their legs or stand on one leg in order to do the big step.

One man needed 4 crew to lift him

Davecttr: the P&O document says "stepping unaided over a distance of 45cm/18 inches" see post #175.

I agree with SussexBoy and this is how we have previously experienced cruise companies assess capability e.g P&O and Celebrity. However, many passengers on our Azura incident reported that they were not asked to do it, especially the excursion passengers.

I think we all have to bear in mind that it is very different doing it on the floor, as opposed to timing what can be a huge gap between a moving ship and a tender that can move enormously when seas are rough. The crews are always great with helping with this timing, but if you don't have good, confident mobility and balance it becomes very dangerous for all.

We have always loved tender ports, but this experience has taught us to not treat tender ports so lightly and to take a lot more personal responsibility for our own risk assessment and preparation of we do risk going ashore

Not what you expect on a luxury cruise. I have never slept with so many strangers!

DaiB: I think your directions are from Monte Carlo? We tendered in Fontvieille.

There are lots of hotels in easy drive distance of Geiranger and I have never read of a tender in Geiranger having to be cancelled due to notorious rough seas as with Monaco and agree with kruzseeka's comments too.

TerrierJohn: another incorrect assumption, as we are Diamond RCI and Elite Celebrity, so have experienced them numerous times. It is better to deal with facts. 

I am not aware from any forums that Fontvieille has been used as a tender before, so I am not convinced yet that anyone, except those on that trip, could give a valid opinion on whether it was feasible to find anywhere more "comfortable" "to relax" for all the many disabled and people with musculoskeletal or other health issues

DaiB: the Azura Captain told us directly that sourcing hotel accomodation is step one of the contingency plan and that is why 3 years ago he advised P&O / Carnival to not tender at Monaco during the yacht show (as I have already detailed in the review)

https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=667425&et_cid=3214772&et_rid=118174872&et_referrer=Boards

Re Tring's question of the steptest what was meant to happen I have attached the relevant P&O document, which seems perfectly appropriate, but was not adhered to. 

Completely agree with CarlaMarie.  Every cabin was given the clear P&O statement regarding tendering, including "you must have independent mobility. By that we mean you must be able to negotiate the steps, the gap and height difference unaided.....and demonstrate this ability via a mobility test.....over a distance of 45cm/18 inches......there will be crew members there to guide and steady you as you embark, but they cannot support, carry or lift guests....."

There was a lot more pertinent detail on the statement, which both passengers, crew and officers ignored.  This put all the other passengers and crew at severe risk.  I am disabled myself and a part time wheelchair user, but would never selfishly put other peoples' health and lives at risk. I was extremely offended by terrierjohn's post #114 "in P&O's case I might be biased because as a wheelchair using couple we can never use a tender on a P&O ship, but on RCI and Celebrity we would also have been ashore if the weather had changed, because they do go the extra mile to provide a good experience to all their passengers"

especially as these comments were made after admitting that they had not read the review, which detailed the issues of the non compliance of the steptest by passengers that could not stand / walk unaided being carried onto / off tenders and tender exits blocked by wheelchairs and scooters etc.

Personally I think it is unreasonable to expect any staff from any cruise line to risk their own health, spine and safety by lifting passengers onto tenders. Lastly P&O do not prevent wheelchair users boarding the tender "providing you have enough independent mobility to be able to get out of your wheelchair / mobility scooter and embark on foot.......you or your travelling companion are responsible for assembling and disassembling your wheelchair / mobility scooter".   

10 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Can I ask what was the “tone” like on the ship and then later if you have contacted P&O back at home. Were they apologetic about it onboard / back home or defending the situation?

At the Q&A session with some of the affected passengers and in the letter that was placed in the cabin of those affected, the Captain "wished to apologise for the disruption you suffered during our call in Monte Carlo". At the meeting they defended the decision to anchor and tender, by the weather and sea forecast being good. As detailed in the review, the Captain also volunteered that 3 years ago he had warned P&O / Carnival not to tender during the yacht show and also 2 weeks before, they had tried to secure tender facilities at Villefranche, but were unable to do so. 

The tone on the ship following the event was mixed, there were many passengers who were extremely angry and tearful (some reporting recurrent nightmares and extreme emotional distress); others who were very accepting; some a mixture of both; there were many unaffected passengers who had no idea of what we had gone through and were horrified at the stories and photo evidence; others that were cross at the press coverage, either thinking it was exaggerated and others thinking it was underplayed. There were also a large number of affected passengers who took many days to recover from the ordeal either due to sleep deprivation, fatigue, musculoskeletal problems or emotional distress, so had most of the 2nd week of their cruise wiped out.

Our evaluation of these varied reactions leads us to believe that it depended on: 

1. The physical condition of passengers prior to the event

2. Whether this was your first cruise or not

3. The exact individual experience e.g. if you had been one of the excursion returners at 5pm who had been told by the Intercontinental man not to join the queue, but to seek shelter and facilities in the commercial centre, or if you had queued from 1.30; if you been one of the unlucky people in the 2 horrendous priority tenders and suffered a traumatic hour being thrown around in a tender in the pitch black, with  those around you screaming, vomiting and having panic attacks, whilst being trapped by all the wheelchairs, scooters and buggies in the exits; if you had managed to get a blanket, stretcher, camp bed, food or had to lay on the cold, concrete floor on top of a flattened biscuit box etc etc.

Re back home, as detailed in the review we received a hamper, with a compliments slip stating "a warm welcome home from all to enjoy from P&O cruises". There was no accompanying apology. The response to date to our complaint letter thanked us for our email and "I have taken note of your comments and have passed them on to our guest relations team, who will respond within 28 days.....I would also like to thank you for taking the time to share your feedback". I personally feel, that given the severe nature of this event and the hundreds of affected passengers, that P&O would already have allocated dedicated staff to address the complaints that would be coming in on an urgent basis, rather than the standard acknowledgement and response time.

Can I ask please when was your incident and which ship?

Re new cruisers I see your point, however we feel all cruisers, whether new or regulars, on ALL cruise line tenders, should have the information and potential risks, so that they can make an informed decision and prepare adequately e.g. taking meds / supplies for 2 days and whether they want to take the risk. Hundreds of our fellow passengers were extremely worried, as they did not have their medication for the evening, nighttime or following morning. If they hadn't managed to eventually get the tenders secured back on the ship it could have been even longer

17 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

While this situation was not fun for those involved to put it into perspective how many of us have ever been stranded overnight like this.

 

In all the cruises I have done (Stopped counting at 100 😀) I have never been stuck on shore. I may have had very long tender queues in the sun, rain or cold and been annoyed by that fact but I have always got back onboard. I would guess this is not a frequent issue and I’m sure we would not want those new to cruising reading these boards to think that it happens a lot.

 

So other than the contributors to this thread who had this recent issue on Azura, how many of you have actually ever been stuck overnight?

This incident on Azura affected more than 1100 passengers and crew. I agree this is perhaps and thankfully an unusual occurrence. However, it should not detract from the fact that as with other, thankfully, one off / rare events or numerous near fatal / life changing events, that they are not avoidable, badly handled or that very important lessons MUST be learnt from them

Thank you Stephen and others for your pertinent comments. It was a horrendous experience

We were amongst those stranded in Monaco and I have just had my review published on here. It is a long read, but I felt it was important to give the facts so you can make your own judgements. 

http://click.email.cruisecritic.com/?qs=070cdfa5ec678c1b7a207c609f9ec74584b467cab0e62a743287ede70dd093970fa466a2314b239f4e9f3540896bb60130d47b962e3d2b9a

I guess I tried to make this point earlier, but perhaps was not clear. This is not an international vessel, it is a domestic ferry! Similar in some respects to a state run ferry here in the U.S.

What comes to mind is the ferry that runs at Galveston island or some of the state ferries in Louisiana. This is not by any means a cruise ship. It is a coastal ferry that stays within the countries borders. It's main purpose is to move cargo and local passenger traffic. Using it as a "cruise ship" is certainly a secondary use at best.

I don't think that any of the international laws/rules/regulations apply.

Have you been on Hurtigruten? It only financially survives because of the "cruise" passengers. The Norwegian road system is so good now, unlike 100 years ago when Hurtigruten started, that it is not used that much for cargo and local passengers. Often at ports there was no cargo or local passengers at all. We had a frank discussion with the Hotel Manager and the survival of Hurtigruten relies completely on international guests. Here, as you point out, may be where the weakness and contradiction lies. We, as international cruisers, booking through cruise agents or at cruise fairs expect the same security standards. Hurtigruten, it seems, from what you are suggesting, does not have to abide by these standards, hence my warning to potential guests. Clearly if one is paying way above average cruise prices, not ferry prices, one expects a certain level of service.

Not accusing anyone of lying, just saying that there may be more to this than you understand. Laymen typically don't understand industries they are not employed in, and there may be nuances here that were not explained to you by the line's personnel or the port personnel. Many people in the industry do not understand all the myriad regulations involved, and customer contact personnel are not always the best trained.

Thank you. I will use your expert information in my case to ABTA and CLIA, who will then see that Hurtigruten are not following industry standards as you outline. As I have written before there was CCTV evidence of the thief leaving with the 2 huge suitcases, but without an ID check or record how will they find him, unless he is well known to the police, but in that case they would have got him by now?

I find the OP's explanation of how "visitors" can walk on and off the ship without any proof of ID to be somewhat fishy. First, the port of Bergen must abide by the IMO's ISPS (International Ship and Port Facility Security) Code, which requires port areas to be defined security areas, where proof of identity is required. Second, Hurtigruten must meet these same ISPS regulations, and this must be spelled out in their ISM (International Safety Management) System. I can't walk on the Casco Bay ferry to take a 10 minute ride to Peaks Island without showing my driver's license. So, to my thinking, after 40 years in the industry, is that there will be a proof of identity log with the person's name (it may take the police a while to find the right person), and a security video somewhere in the port area showing the person taking the luggage. Sorry, something here just doesn't add up to me.

Thank you for this information, that may prove very useful for my case. It is a shame that those contributing on here have not been to Norway or been on Hurtigruten. I can assure you my account is completely accurate. This is the whole point of the thread, that people have lost focus on. I was trying to warn people about the complete lack of security that as you point out is expected in 2014. Bergen is the only stop where there is a terminal building. The other stops people just wait on the quayside. The stops are "manned" by one man in a forklift who does the loading and unloading of goods and the ropes. There are no other staff. We watched many near misses where the people were waiting on the quayside to get on when the cargo flap would come down nearly on top of them. Many visitors are local people coming on for a coffee or meal. I can assure you again there are no ID checks or records or bags scanned. My only aim was to warn potential passengers, so they do not ever go through the nightmare that we experienced and continue to suffer as we are financially so out of pocket. I did not expect to be accused of lying. I was asking for help. I am not the criminal here. Please remember that when you posts your replies. I feel we have suffered enough.

What has your insurance company said?

 

As you probably know, when booking a holiday from the UK travel insurance is mandatory, so you should be filing a claim with them.

 

If for some inexplicable reason you didnt buy insurance then your household contents insurance may allow some claim to be made.

 

Its why insurance is there.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse tryping orrers.

Our travel insurance have said to pursue all avenues with Hurtigruten first, as they are liable. Our argument is that Hurtigruten were negligent in not having adequate security measures to protect passengers and their belongings whilst in their care. Hurtigruten should be claiming on their public liability insurance. We are £3000 out of pocket in possessions alone. Our travel insurance will pay a maximum of £1500, which I think is an average policy cover. We have never had to add up the value of our cases before. When you next pack it would be worthwhile making a detailed list and then putting the replacement costs next to each item. I think you will be shocked to see how it all adds up. Normally one does not have all your luggage stolen in one go as well. Packing for a winter holiday is far more expensive than packing for a summer holiday due to the specialist items of clothing e.g. one thermal top costs £40 compared to a £5 T shirt.

Thank you. To clarify a few points:

We DID NOT have any jewellery in the cases;

The contents were expensive, as it was an extremely cold, long journey in Norway, so we had all our ski clothes, ideal for the conditions and these are very expensive. We also had tripod, binoculars, AV cables & chargers, my varifocal 2nd pair of glasses etc;

Hurtigruten have reneged and withdrawn on their original email received whilst on the ship, which offered 10,000NOK on production of receipts in the UK. So total received 20,000 NOK (£1950 / $3300)

As one poster has pointed out, Norway is an exceedingly expensive place to buy emergency clothing, so the emergency funds of 10,000 NOK (£975 /$1650) given on the 1st day only bought 2 suitcases, 2 sets of thermals, 1pair of socks, 2prs gloves, 1pair of ski trousers. So clearly £1950 did not replace all our belongings. The police on their report estimated the contents of 2 average cases to be 40,000 NOK so Hurtigruten have not given even what the police suggested.

In regard to the postings saying it is sold as a ferry -ferries are not sold at international cruise shows or sold by cruise agents or discussed on cruise forums nor are allowed to be members of CLIA (cruise lines international association) or cost £118 ($200) per person per night when on a 50% off special and you don't go on a ferry for 12 days. Hurtigruten only remind people it is a working ferry when it suits them, certainly not at cruise fairs when they are selling them.

My husband and I, 2 English passengers, had all of our luggage stolen from a Hurtigruten ship March 2014 after embarking in Bergen for the 12 day round trip. We feel we must highlight the incident and dangers to other current and future international passengers, who will naturally expect in 2014 a certain level of security. Global passengers do not expect when sold a cruise that anyone off the street can board a ship, steal passengers’ suitcases that Hurtigruten have left unsafe in corridors or in unlocked luggage stores and walk off the ship with the suitcases completely unchallenged. There is no security.

Hurtigruten are refusing to replace our stolen possessions, even after admitting that the suitcases were in their care and it is therefore their responsibility to put the situation right, as they were negligent by allowing a visitor to steal the 2 big suitcases and walk past the staff completely unchallenged.

If you want to read the full story and about the rest of the awful voyage

http://cruisecritic.co.uk/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=254129

This horror cruise story still goes on months after the voyage and remains unresolved.

Welcome to Cruise Critic.

 

What a horrible experience.

 

If this person had a visitor's pass, shouldn't there be a record of this somewhere showing his name?

No, Hurtigruten allow "visitors" on to the ships without any security checks or record of identity. Visitors simply walk on, get given a card which says visitor, then are free to roam the ship. On leaving, they simply hand the visitor card back in.

In our situation, at 9-9.30pm, when all the guests were in a welcome meeting and there should not have been any visitors the thief came on board, stole our 2 huge suitcases and the staff said goodnight to him when he handed back his visitor card and watched as he walked off into the empty terminal.

Common sense should have told them that no passenger would be leaving the ship 30 minutes before the ship set sail, let alone one with a visitors pass.

The senior vice president of Hurtigruten hotel operations said to us "they cannot defend the indefensible", but they still refuse to pay us for our stolen possessions.

My husband and I, 2 English passengers, had all of our luggage stolen from a Hurtigruten ship after embarking at Bergen for the 12 day round trip. We feel we must highlight the incident and dangers to other current and future international passengers, who will naturally expect in 2014 a certain level of security. Global passengers do not expect when sold a cruise that anyone off the street can board a ship, steal passengers’ suitcases that have been left unsafe in corridors or in unlocked luggage stores and walk off the ship with the suitcases completely unchallenged. There is no security.

Hurtigruten are refusing to replace our stolen possessions, even after admitting that the suitcases were in their care and it is therefore their responsibility to put the situation right, as they were negligent by allowing a visitor to steal the 2 big suitcases and walk past the staff completely unchallenged.

If you would like to read the full facts, the link is below.

http://cruisecritic.co.uk/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=254129

Any helpful advice to help us fight this case?

What is your reaction to a voyage sold at international cruise fares and governed by CLIA to the complete lack of security?

Do you think that Hurtigruten should replace all our stolen items or monetary value of them, as the bags were in their care when stolen?

Do you think Hurtigruten should be compensating us for our ruined holiday, distress, upset etc?