LadyMage

I'm reviving this thread in case anyone is still trying to get their money back from the Maxwell and the Seven Seas.

The Attorney General of Arizona, Mark Brnovich, did settle in the case, and if you have not gotten the refund from your credit card company, then please contact the AG's office before August 20th.

Link to his statement: https://www.azag.gov/press-release/ag-brnovich-obtains-refunds-arizonans-after-canceled-concerts

The last sentence contains a link to the Assurance of Discontinuance; BTW Concerts/Alternatix and affiliates are banned from ever producing another Arizona show.

And thanks to all of you who kept on this thing from the start, because this has contributed, in no small part, to a resolution to this case.

The Getaway is the ship hosting the Capital Jazz Supercruise for that sail date.

I'm a longtime attendee of Capital Jazz Cruise productions, but it'll be my first time sailing with Norwegian. Until 2016, CapJazz has been with the Carnival Conquest class of ships, which I enjoyed. Definitely looking forward to seeing how it is.

My very first music charter was on board the Celebrity Century. Been hooked on cruises since!

Excellent point about Tom's Fantastic Voyage...as well as....Festival at Sea, Dave Koz & Friends, Legendary Rhythm & Blues, The Jazz Cruise, The Smooth Jazz, Soul Train, Malt Shop Memories Cruises as well as Capital Jazz SuperCruise...each has legends of very loyal repeat guests who would not keep returning unless they trusted they were receiving value for their vacation $$$

 

The Maxwell fiasco is a classic example of the free market check & balances at work...Maxwell failed because of "greed"...if you asked anyone from the above music charters or any travel agency that sends clients on music charters their response would have been "way over priced" and would pass on booking a cabin...1st time cruisers wanting a full charter music experience might not have been able to heed the Maxwell "red flags"...thankfully trip insurance & credit card travel (fraud) departments provided a "safety net" for those who booked on the Maxwell charter

 

If anything the Maxwell fiasco serves as a reminder to be vigilant

As I said to a friend of mine after all of this went down: going to a music show is both a consumer product purchase and an investment, two in one. You're buying the ticket and seeing the show - that's the consumer-product bit - but you're also investing in the promoter and the artist. The promoter will use revenue from this show to put on other shows, and the artist will use the revenue from their shows to produce more music, both of which bolster the cycle of more music shows, more revenue, and so on. That's the investment cycle in music. And the continued shows and music production are also the return on that investment.

And, like with every consumer product, it has to be priced to sell. If a promoter doesn't price an event to sell, it won't.

This is a lesson to any music lover to carefully vet the events they're attending. They may know the artist, they may even know the venue, but what they need to see and be vigilant about is who puts these events on. A little research saves a lot, especially when it comes to music cruises.

In doing a little price research, I think Capital Jazz is the least expensive music cruise on the market right now, if I go by earlybird prices. But above that, they know what their audience looks for. And look at the results: the ship is sold out already, and the lineup isn't even complete yet. A little market research and prices to sell. Never fails.

I noticed that as well. And it's unrealistic - don't they think that artists will mingle with attendees of their own accord? You're on a ship for 7-8 days. Unless all the artists will have security, it's completely ridiculous to limit access to them to those who paid the VIP surcharge or to give them a little "extra access" - I think they tried to include seating in the first six rows in that VIP price - because come on, if you're on a ship like that, you'll be socializing with the artists anyway.

I think I remember whom you mean, Hattack... Short version: one particular artist came into the Lido restaurant with his entourage, and honestly, impressed no one. I saw more than one raised eyebrow. I mean, dude, you're having breakfast. You don't need security on staff. I don't think he'll ever be invited back, and won't miss him either.

Awesome!! I usually fly solo. I found out the hard way that I'm really not suited for roommates, especially in small spaces. Single cabins on CapJazz are pretty awesome, but for a 10th Anniversary sailing, I think I'd like a little more oomph to my cruising. So - time to pinch some pennies, because I'm on that ship anyway, but it'll take some budget magic to make it happen for a balcony!

I'd be paying $5100 for a balcony on Capital Jazz by myself - and considering next year's the 10th Anniversary, I may be tempted to splurge on that! :)

 

I cannot imagine paying $12,000 for a regular balcony or inside cabin for a 7 day cruise.

Charter cruises generally cost more than regular cruises, but I have yet to see a price tag like this for anything less than an owner's suite on board a charter cruise... I'd love to have a balcony cabin on a charter, but on my charter of choice, it'll cost me about half of that - and I travel alone!

Solo cruisers generally shell out more, but even with that, there's a limit...

I found the article from NBC. It's here: http://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/Cruise-Nightmare-for-Southern-California-Couple-294297501.html

The article and the quote by Royal Caribbean confirms what the folks here have surmised: BTW did not pay Royal Caribbean, and the rest is history.

One thing to mention: David Payne is NOT the head of BTW Concerts, unless something happened in that company that I missed. However, he may be related to Payne Pest Management, whom I know sponsors a lot of events around CA and the general Southwest area.

I just saw a story on our local news about a retired couple who had booked the charter cruise as an anniversary present for themselves. So I was curious as to more of the story and did a little googling and found a blogger who linked to this thread. She had some reservations as she knew that the fare was exorbitant compared to music cruises she has been on' date=' apparently. This was a first time cruise for this company so that's a red flag.[/quote']

 

If the blog post name was "On Maxwell & the Seven Seas" and it was on a Wordpress site, that'd be mine. I wrote a fairly lengthy post about it.

So if these folks who made deposits file claims/disputes through their credit card companies, where do the reimbursement funds come from? I mean, if the promoter is broke, how can the credit card companies force refunds of money that's not available?!

I would think that credit card issuers have fraud insurance of some kind for those things... The money comes from the issuer directly.

And American Express really is the royalty of credit cards for this sort of a thing. You give them documents, next thing you know the money shows up.

There is a YouTube video with the Promoter posted in Nov 2013 announcing BTW's aggressive expansion plans of BTW promoted Jazz Festivals in additional cities plus the Maxwell Cruise....I would suspect that the Maxwell fiasco might put a crimpt in his plans

 

The YouTube video also puts a face and a name to BTW and the Maxwell situation which if I were one of the paid guests trying to get my full refund without having to go thru "extra hoops" I would want to make sure the Arizona AG's Office of Consumer Affairs were made aware of the video....if I were the guests impacted, I would secure a copy of that video, in case it is disabled or removed

 

My question is since Maxwell's name is associated with this situation...has his legal team insulated him from liability or will he wind up as a co defendant on the "People's Court"

 

Sadly, I suspect this situation will unravel even more in the next few weeks and may explode in the media (TMZ) unless the promoter makes good on refunding fully booked guests monies paid...this makes me appreciate how Capital Jazz does business

His corporate registration is also public record.

I'm one of the customers that has to deal with this fiasco and me and my party that was cruising with me was told by BTWConcerts that they are now in litigation with RCCL and that we will get our funds back, but it will take some time. They stated that those of us who purchased travel insurance should file a claim with them and that they too will be contacting them to explain in full the reasons as to why they cannot presently give their customers refunds and to expedite the process of assisting us in receiving our refunds in a timely manner.

 

I've already opened up a claim with BTWConcerts' travel insurance partner Travel Guard, and am waiting to fill out a claim with my credit card company, and also informed the media of the impact that this celebrity cruise has had on thousands of Maxwell fans, and Maxwell himself!

 

I've written a lengthy letter which I will be sending to everyone involved in the mess, and won't stop untill all the funds that are due to me are paid in full! I don't care who gives me my money back, just as long as I get it, and get it promptly! I'm so glad that I informed myself about this cruise by joining this site, or else I'd be less prepared in trying to get back my funds ASAP!

 

It doesn't hurt that I work for the Department of Justice and have an abundance of lawyers willing to look over this particular case, just in case it gets up to the point that no one wants to give up funds I'm due!

You go, Lovenharmony!

I have a cache of screencaps from their pages, most of them of posts they had removed to sanitize, but among them is that one from Jan. about "their payment system being down".

Also...not sure if this might be considered "outing" myself outside cruisecritic (still a newbie) but...I have written a long blog post on the entire thing that has made the rounds at the speed of light, mostly within the music community. If there's anything that you may be able to find there that is useful, I'm only glad to help.

And if he's in litigation with RCI, then he's definitely screwed. It also highlights why people are told that "there's no money" - if RCI is drawing on the letter of credit, then I would bet you that the bank affiliated with the credit line is freezing/seizing whatever assets are in the BTW accounts just based on the total amount owed, and if it's a single-member LLC, I don't think that the owner's personal assets are exempt either. RCI I'm certain isn't pleased with having its name attached to this fiasco.

This guy has burned a lot of people prior to this. If this will be what ends his franchise, I will consider it karma. It grinds slow but exceeding small.

You hit the nail on the head! It's definitely worth it for me. 2-3 concerts per night. Seminars/games and other fun activities during the day and not to mention the people you meet and relationships you build. We have an absolute ball...

Agreed. I am very serious when I say that a music cruise changed my life. Very first cruise was in January of 2009, Celebrity Century with an all-jazz lineup... I met my current clientele and mentors on that ship.

...I'd like to know two things:

1. How could they possibly imagine anyone would want to do business with their events again after this?

2. How can they possibly put on another event, especially if RC drew on the letter of guaranteed credit?

Somehow I doubt they had separate incorporations for their events - usually, events have separate entities formed for just those events; it protects the promoters - and if that's so, then RC drawing on the letter of credit puts their entire concert franchise in jeopardy.

I wonder if the CEO of Smooth Jazz Global Radio (a major sponsor connected to both the cruise & other BTWconcert events) could play a role in resolving the refund situation (leverage)

Doubtful. SJ.com Global Radio was likely just a media sponsor; I'd imagine their role was limited to advertising... Still, doesn't hurt.

I don't know if Payne Pest Management was a sponsor too, because I know Payne had sponsored prior BTW events before.

BTW's festivalFB pages are all down and the websites for the AZ, Las Vegas, and San Diego fests all redirect to the cancellation page. Cancun is the only one that's up... For now.

You're not going to believe this. I have a friend that was going on the Maxwell at Sea cruise and she was told when she contacted the the promoter that they would not be giving refunds only credits to future events that BTW is having. She is livid as she should be!!!!

WHAT.

Then again, my friend also told me that when she called, she was told, "We didn't have the money!" Oh hell to the NO. You screw up, you pay for it, bottom damn line.

Just speculation, I have no inside information... But my guess is they have no liquid funds to provide refunds with. They paid north of a half a million dollars to RCI as the first deposit for the cruise. It appears they missed the next payment, which looks to be just above $1.5 million, and that's why RCI terminated their charter. But they had to provide RCI with an irrevocable letter of credit for the full amount of the charter at contract signing, and I would imagine that RCI has drawn against that letter of credit, so the bank which provided it is also after them. They may have botched this up so bad that the alternatives are to offer credits against future events, or just declare total bankruptcy and liquidate.

I agree. However, they're still liable. And unless I'm wrong, they should've been keeping the client payments in a separate account, a la escrow, in the event that this should happen.

I bet you this money was all spent to put Cancun on.

And frankly, I can't be bothered to care about what they do or don't have. They played fast and loose with money that wasn't theirs, and lost. They really should've thought of all of this when they priced their original charter to nearly double the competition.

The more I think about it, the more I think this has been deliberate. It's just...too many red flags.

They are an LLC partnership. I may be wrong on this too, but these don't have anywhere near the level of legal protection as a C-corp. Tax-wise, there's flowthrough to the partners, but if it's a single-member LLC, then the person who owns it is pretty much done.

True, but at this point BTW has made so many dumb moves (and dishonest moves) that I think the odds of any cruise line being willing to do business with them or their principals ever again is already slim and none anyway.

Agreed. I went on their website to look up their festivals, and all the links on btwconcerts.com redirect to the cruise cancellation page. San Diego, Las Vegas, AZ - all redirect to the cancellation.

However, if you google "BTW concerts complaints", you'll also find a Ripoff Report entry from a prior vendor of BTW Concerts. Short version: rubber check.

For the ticket holders of that event who are reading this thread and working on getting refunds directly from BTW - please request a wire transfer if possible. Anything electronic. If they bounced a check once, they are likely to do it again.

I meant that our final payment 3-3-2015 - was for MAY 17 -cruise - sorry for the typo. I was surprised that a payment for the a cruise two weeks later came before the May 3 cruise. Or was that a Maxwell final payment?

That was a Maxwell payment.

Are you sure it is March 15? Our final payment for the 5-17-2015 cruise is due May 3, 2015.

No, no - that was the payment date for the now-defunct Maxwell charter.

To note, I have saved a LOT!!! of screencaps from the BTW pages. A LOT. They won't be able to weasel out of much.

Wow, the deception just seems to continue - on again, off again! Glad you pasted the text of the announcement, because now they've simply removed the entire Facebook page! Your link just goes to a "content not available" error message now.

I did one better. I screencapped it. I screencapped EVERYTHING I could. Every time someone inquired them about the status and the promoter deleted it, I grabbed a screencap if I could manage; every time they got called out about the cancellation status, etc. Whatever I could find across all the promoter's pages about this, I screencapped.

Apologies if FB links are not allowed...

Now time for them to issue refunds, ASAP.

And might I say it? Thank you to everyone on this forum for keeping the pressure on. This is how we weed out dishonest businesses: put the heat on and keep it lit. Y'all rock. :)

And this just in... If you look at the official Maxwell at Sea event page, they put up a post that it's canceled.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1423822307879800/

Copypasta:

MAXWELLatsea.com

5 mins · Phoenix, AZ

The "Maxwell + The 7 Seas" cruise, previously scheduled for May 3-10, 2015, has unfortunately been canceled due to unforeseen events and circumstances between the cruise line and promoter.

Maxwell, "I'm so sorry that the 7 seas cruise has been canceled. I've been planning it for months, but the experience I had in mind for the fans just wasn't turning out as i had envisioned."

Please contact BTWatsea.com for details.

True. I can't imagine the nightmarish situation that will cause for the staff of BTW employees, and for the rest of the cruisers. I severely doubt the non-event attendees will be very displeased with being shut out from the concerts and entertainments.

Good grief, what a MESS.

I'm with you, I sure hope it doesn't come to that. But their silence, and outright lies to customers as recently as a week ago that the charter is still on - leads me to believe they're in full melt-down mode at this point. I'm betting they simply don't have the money to provide refunds to all the customers that they've taken payments from, and the online silence & lies to customers on the phone speaks to their desperation at this point.

 

EDIT: Here's a post from one of those event pages:

 

I just talked to the promoter today, the cruise is not cancelled! If it should get cancelled we will be notified. They just have a couple items to work out so the entertainers are satisfied with what their customers are getting from them.

January 28 at 12:56am

Yeah, that's what I saw too. The sound you hear is my facepalm.

It just doesn't jive. R.C. confirmed to me that the full-ship charter is canceled - in those words. Detr0tvsEverybody had it on P. 7 that there's no partial or any charter at all, and he (or she) got it from the exec offices. So are the people at BTW trying to salvage it and hit on some sort of a solution, or are they just lying to save face?

Considering they're still playing the delete-the-negative-comment game, I'm putting my money on the second option.

Believe you me, I'd love to see them salvage the event, pull through as a large group - something. Because it'll show that they at least tried to do right by the people who paid them, and it'll live up to the old-age motto that 'the show must go on' - yes, in a reduced capacity, but it'll be major points for them if they do something, anything at all, to salvage this thing.

You are right, it's meltdown mode right now.

But the way it's looking, I definitely do not like, and I think that they're well past the salvage point.