Cruise4Real

Except that the dining package is the most often chosen since it usually provides the best deal (assuming the person isn't a moderate to heavy drinker.)

 

Right now the dining package is no more than second best, and only if the pax aren't drinkers (in which case it's only third best).

 

Promos change all the time, of course, but since August 1st NCL has been giving EVERYBODY (OV or higher for cruises in 2016 and beyond) a choice of "free stateroom gratuities" (meaning free DSC), free UBP, or free dining package. (The shore excursion credit and internet time seem pretty lousy but might work for specific cruisers?) That "dining package" is SDP -- for a 7 night cruise pax who select this option get four nights of specialty dining. NCL sells this package for $79. Free DSC comes to $13.50 pppd, or $94.50 for a 7 day cruise. Unless you're planning on adjusting DSC (and not making it up with cash tips) you're clearly better off taking the free DSC and buying the SDP -- for a 7 day cruise each pax is ahead by at least $15.50. For longer cruises it's even more pronounced as NCL is stingy with the extra meals -- cruise 12 days and you only get five free specialty dinners. (You have to pay 18 percent whether you buy the SDP or take it as a perk, so that's a wash.)

Whether the drink or the dinner perk is better is up to individual. We like our wine with dinner and usually a couple more drinks throughout the day, but not constantly. We are looking forward to having it taken care of before we cruise. We will enjoy a drink before dinner, maybe one during the show, or even while we enjoy the activities in the morning. It is just nice to know we don't have to worry about the bill when the cruise is over.

 

For those considering taking the SDP as their promo perk, the relevant comparisons aren't with UBP but with the free DSC. That gives you $13.50 pppd, while on a benchmark 7 day cruise you get just four specialty dinners with the SDP perk. NCL will sell a four-night SDP for $79 (plus 18 percent). You don't have to be a math whiz to see that (7 x 13.50) > (4 x 19.75). In other words, take the free DSC as your perk and if you want specialty dining, buy your SDP and you are definitely ahead on the game. (And the longer the cruise, the better is the free DSC deal vs. SDP.)

This is a 12 day cruise we are looking at and "a few" can easily turn into a several over the course of an evening, and then there are the sea days, so its looking like the UBP might be the best value.

 

thanks again for the explanation

 

And a 12 night cruise only gets you five specialties with the dining package as your perk, so it's only another $15 in value over the 7 night cruise package (four specialties), while that UBP keeps on chugging, day after day!

If we drink a few of glasses of wine each per day and the occasional beer for my DH is the UB package a better deal than the UD?

 

If "a few" means THREE, then your best bet from the promo perks is probably the UBP. If less than that, you are probably better off with the free DSC. Assuming you don't adjust DSC, that perk is worth about $94 pp. The dining package is worth $74 pp (4 nights of specialty dining), and you have to pay 18% of that amount, too. UBP costs you $70 pp for the service charges, so you'll need to drink $70 + $94 (opportunity cost of the free DSC) = $164 pp over the 7 days to make it "pay." This is between 2 and 3 drinks per day, pp, which most any drinker(s) should be able to handle.

 

Right now the dining package is only second (and probably only third) best, no matter what. The free DSC beats it easily. If you drink at all, UBP easily beats dining package, too. The shore excursion credits and/or internet minutes are both inferior to the other choices. Pax 3+ sail free is the best option, but only for specific low demand cruises, and only if you have others you want to cram into your stateroom.

FDR has explicitly stated he wants to move away from "affordable" cruising and into higher dollar / higher value cruising.

 

So you don't see any problems or issues with filling all the cabins on the present ships, not to mention adding 6000 new cabins on mega-ships over the next few years? Just raise the prices and the pax will come a-flockin'?! Even as you change the product to a more a la carte (nickel-and-diming) experience, which sure as heck doesn't sound very "upscale" to me!

 

I already pointed out that NCLH have two upscale brands. Transitioning NCL toward more expensive and upscale experience potentially cannibalizes customers from the upscale lines. Also the plan is apparently to shift the older, smaller, less exciting ships to the more exotic itineraries. I know a lot of people say they prefer to cruise on the "smaller" Jewel-class ships, etc., but my guess is that's in part because they often aren't as expensive as the new mega-ships with all their bells and whistles. Compare prices on Dawn and Breakaway -- you pay a definite premium to cruise to Bermuda on the newer mega-ship compared to the "tired old Dawn." Those older ships are only going to get older and more prone to breakdown or whatever as we go forward. Meanwhile the mega-ships will be shifted to the "milk runs." There are plenty of times during the year when they aren't able to (easily) fill the mega-ships, even on the milk runs. The idea that you're going to use your snazziest and newest and biggest ships for the less expensive itineraries just makes NO sense to me.

 

It's as if the strategy they thunk up several years back when they started building the Epic/BA/GA has been completely tossed aside and a completely new one has been implemented. Maybe if they could cancel the new builds, and try with a new class of more luxurious but smaller ships (and put THEM on the "upscale" itineraries), they might make this work. As it is they're stuck with what looks like to me a mish-mosh of strategies that seem unlikely to work with the tools at their disposal.

 

I really don't see how they're going to square this circle.

In fact, THIS is the purpose of the concierge guiding you onto the ship and seating you in the restaurant or suite guest only bar (in our case) on your way to lunch @ Cagneys. It's a perk for the suite owners coming on board but it's also a mechanism for giving the concierge that initial 1-on-1 time with the newly boarding suite guest.

 

Interesting. We definitely didn't get any 1-on-1 time with the Concierge when we were led, in a large pack, from the pier waiting area up into the ship. In fact we sort of got screwed by that as we got led up to The Haven lounge area and dropped there. They were coming around with these "sliders" and fries (that were totally nothing special) and, being noobs, we figured Okay this is it. Come to find out later that we should have gone "behind the scenes" and into the actual Haven restaurant (where, when we ate lunch there later in the week, we had very good and enjoyable lunches). I suspect we got a sort of Haven version of what the rest of pax were experiencing -- being shepherded away from MDR and into the Buffet upon boarding.

 

I've cruised enough to know that a nicer (than the Buffet) sit-down experience awaits in the MDR and if not for the "perk" of being led (astray!) up into the Haven lounge, that's where we'd have been. If there ever is a next time, we'll make sure to get lunch in the actual Haven restaurant (or Cagney's) when we board.

Dawn will almost certainly be cheaper for most weeks than Breakaway. Parking is cheaper in Boston than NYC (though you can easily save $100 off parking next to the cruise pier in NYC by using alternative parking garages that are a short 5-10 minute walk from the pier -- still more expensive than parking at Boston's Black Falcon terminal though). (It will be more difficult to easily find cheaper parking than Black Falcon, especially within walking distance.) Likely everything else in Boston will be a bit cheaper than NYC too, like if you were looking for hotel pre- or post-cruise, etc.

 

Breakaway is definitely a better itinerary than Dawn. Especially with Dawn's one day out, two days back vs. BA's two days out, one day back. Even if you can discount the psychological effect of the homestretch taking longer than the cruise out, the fact that Dawn arrives on Sunday vs. Wed. is pretty significant. Check the bus/ferry schedules on Bermuda and you'll see what I mean. Everything seems to shut down earlier on Sunday than the weekdays. (And I think on Wed. they run later than other weekdays, too.) And the fact that NCL JUST trimmed two hours from Dawn's arrival day -- from 11 am to 1 pm -- only exacerbates this problem and likely makes it difficult (or expensive, using taxis, excursions, etc.) to do much of anything other than explore the Dockyard area the day of arrival.

 

Breakaway is a bigger and likely more exciting ship than Dawn, has a better itinerary, with slightly more (and more usable) time on Bermuda. But it's more expensive. Aye, there's the rub!

Meh.

One would hope these guys would know their business better than me. :)

 

But I have to think there's a reason that many cruises are 7 days long, and generally start/end on the weekends. That's because an awful lot of the working stiffs who must make up the bulk of cruisers on NCLH's "contemporary" line, NCL, you know, work. And for most of them workers, their week is M-F, with weekends off. So if you're going on a 7 day cruise you can actually do that with just five days off from work -- you get to use the weekend on either end for travel, etc. Americans get what, the least amount of paid time off of any workers in the world? (Other than Thai fishing slaves, I guess.)

 

You start making your cruises longer than 7 days and you run into situations where you can no longer do your vacay with just five days off from work. If the cruise starts on Tuesday and ends on Thursday, toss in travel to get to the port and you can come close to using 2 weeks of paid time in order to do your 9 day cruise. You only get to use a single weekend to help avoid squandering your precious time off.

 

God bless 'em. They have two other lines that cater to affluent older cruisers who don't have to worry about these issues as much as the stiffs on NCL. Del Rio started off the conference call saying that they have three lines that aren't competing with each other, and that's great! And then precedes to outline a plan where they can start competing with each other. Brilliant!

I think the way to think about this is to realize that EVERY balcony on board BA/GA will have about the same amount of "private" space as any other. They ALL (to my knowledge) are protected by about 3-4 feet of overhang from the deck above. But the ONLY cabins (again, to my knowledge) that ALSO have some degree of unprotected space (meaning greater potential for sunbathing, etc.) are the B1s, B6s, and M6s.

Have you considered parking (if you're driving in to the pier)? That will cost you $40 per day ($280 for the week) if you use the right-next-door lot. If you don't mind a 5-10 minute walk you can drop your party and bags at the pier and then go to a pre-reserved parking space a few blocks away. We used Park Whiz and it cost $175 for the week. Indoor parking, too. We'd ABSOLUTELY do this again.

We got an Upsell into an H3 Owners Suite on Breakaway in April -- we went from an aft balcony B1 to the H3 for $1500 extra for the two of us, or $2500 to $4000, all in. I'd probably do that deal again, though I also consider this a pretty much once in a lifetime opportunity. I do NOT consider "the suite life" cost-effective at full list price -- to do an H3 OS on BA at full price would likely be at least double what we paid and (for us) that's just too much money for not enough value. Some people have waaaay more money than others (you know, that pesky 99 percent vs. 1 percent thing you've been hearing about for the past four years at least) and they may consider The Haven a deal. Or if not a deal, it's spending money slower than it's coming in. If you're getting a million dollars a year that's $20,000 a week, so what the hell, book the Garden Villa!!

 

We tipped both Butler and Concierge, but honestly I am really not sure about the "service" the Concierge provides. Perhaps it's because in comparison to concierges in land hotel situations, what makes their job so difficult? If I go to a hotel concierge in NYC and ask him to get me tix to some hot Broadway show, he's got to go and find them or use his connections or somehow wheedle or cajole people to get the tickets.

 

But if ask the Concierge to do something for me on board a ship, what is he doing? He gets on the phone and does it. Because the person on the other end HAS to. If they don't the Concierge sends an email to their boss and trouble ensues. They all report to the same Captain. Either the Concierge has the right to demand that these pax get into Rock the Floor tonight or he doesn't. If he does, he's just doing his job -- making a phone call. No wheedling or cajoling necessary. Indeed, most of the things a Concierge can do for you on board you can do yourself.

 

The one thing that we DID find useful that the Concierge did for us was priority disembark, both at GSC and back home in NYC. But again, this really just felt like his job. Took him all of five minutes to lead a bunch of us down the back elevators and jump us to the front of the line. Again, not like he had to grease any palms to do that, it's just the rules. I honestly feel it's a bit of a rip-off. We did tip the Concierge $50 but for maybe ten or fifteen minutes of work, in total (and some of that time split with the other suite passengers disembarking at that point), it seems kind of absurd.

 

Much of the rest of the suite perks are, by themselves, not all that valuable. Sure the Haven robes were very nice and luxurious, but if I had to pay a la carte for them, would I? Maybe $5?? Most of the perks come down to that. I wouldn't have paid $1 for most of the afternoon snacks the Butler brought. I suppose we could have worked at maximizing value gleaned from the Butler, cracked the whip and demanded better stuff than the little PB&J sandwiches, or somewhat gross ham and cheese thingies, but I'm (a) not good with confrontation and ordering people to do things for me and (b) I'm on vacation, and that just feels like too much effort for not nearly enough payback.

 

On the other hand the H3 OS was a really beautiful and luxurious room. The shower was probably the largest and nicest shower I've EVER had the enjoyment of using. (We didn't use the bathtub at all, no jets for one thing and we're just not tub people.) The room itself was far and away the reason to take the Upsell, all the various perks didn't add much to the experience. The Haven restaurant was also very nice and very personable. We enjoyed all our meals there and were truly treated like "owners" LOL. We also seemed to receive good and fast service when we ate in MDR and elsewhere (contrary to many reviews complaining of lengthy MDR service), and if that was because we were presenting platinum color (suite) keycards, that would be an unspoken perk. (In other words, it's certainly not a listed perk, but might still be something NCL does?)

 

OTOH we likely would have enjoyed that large aft balcony (on deck 9, no less!) more than we did the H3's, where wind made it uncomfortable to use while under way. But it was really awesome when coming into port, a totally commanding view.

 

Anybody considering a suite or Haven, either "list" or Upsell, would do well to find the various threads on here about "suite perks" that contain a list of all the perks you get. Put a dollar value next to each one. Add them up. You may find it difficult to justify the extra money you'll need to part with, especially at list prices.

 

TL;DR Upsells are awesome and if you ever get the opportunity to do one and you can afford the extra money, think carefully before you let it pass. Booking a suite/Haven at list price? Meh, not so much.

Does that mean that we could eat dinner in one of the complementary dining rooms and then go to La Bistro for dessert and just pay for dessert?

 

Ding ding! This is what I mean about that "annoying human ability" to figure out how systems work and then how to game them.

 

Honestly, at the present moment, from what I can tell about the new "a la carte" policy, you could do exactly that.

 

A per seat or per table minimum could be an obvious response by NCL if what you proposed became widespread. But so far there's nothing like that in the policy.

Hmm, pretty interesting that you can reserve space at, for instance, Cagney's without putting a penny down. When in the past if you pre-booked online you got charged immediately, long before you set foot on the ship. As many have noted, usually all the tables available for online pre-booking were sold out before sailing -- a short-term interest free loan for NCL!

 

I can't imagine this will continue. What will they do about "phantom" bookings? If you can reserve time without putting skin in the game (admittedly, this is exactly how it works on land), and then cancel without penalty, the problem of specialty restaurants being redlined but strangely appearing to be half empty (reported on here time and again) will become even worse.

 

Obviously they keep back some number of tables for booking online, but if you can make complimentary bookings online, will you be able to make them on board, as well?

 

Seems like an odd choice for a management team that considers pax a "captive audience." This new policy seems to be giving the captives an awful lot more power than they had before! If you're not sure whether you want to go at 6:00 or 7:00, you book 2 for 6:00 and your wife books 2 for 7:00 and you go to whatever actually works best for you when that day arrives.

 

This has all the look of a not-well-thought-out policy and I don't imagine it will survive for long. Humans, captive or otherwise, have an annoying ability to figure out how the system works (and then immediately following that, how to "game" it).

If you're booking a Large aft balcony on BA or GA, be aware that on each deck there is ONE B1 that is a bit "thinner" than the others. These are the B1s that are immediately to port of the HC B1 on each deck. For instance on deck 9 it's cabin 9322. If you examine pics of the aft part of the ship you can see that 9322 (and those vertically above it) are 2 "rail panels" wide while the other B1s are 2-1/2 "rail panels" wide. (You can even sort of see this on the deck plans if you look carefully.) Due to the curve of the rear railing 9322 (and the others above it) are probably deeper than other B1s on the same deck, but I'm pretty sure they're still considerably smaller (like 15+ percent smaller) than other B1s on the same deck.

 

I don't know how to compare the size of, say, 9322 with one of the 2-1/2 panels wide B1s on a different deck. But if you have a choice on a particular deck, I'd avoid the ones I've pointed out.

 

Edit to add: Compare this video:

(around 1:50 or so) with the other one posted upthread and you'll see what I mean. As far as I know the actual cabins are the same size (but if they're not, guess which one is smaller). To complicate your search further there's also the issue of "bed by balcony" vs. "bed by closet" to consider. And to add difficulty to THAT question it's clear (when you compare these videos with what you can see from the "bumps" on NCL deck plans for GA/BA) that what you see on the website may or not be accurate (on the question of bed location).

Hi. Myself and my elderly mother have free UBP for our upcoming cruise on the Spirit Oct 2016. Couple questions.

 

1, I am seeing conflicting reports that even though the UBP was a free perk I will have to pay gratuities and Spanish port VAT on it. Is this true?

 

Secondly I know it is one drink per customer per transaction. My question is would I be allowed to get my mothers drink with her card? She has a serious case of the shakes and wouldn't be able to carry a drink over to seating herself so she would generally sit down and I get the drinks.

 

Thanks

 

Don't know anything about Q. 1. But as far as Q. 2 I suspect each ship may handle this differently. I've read on here where some ship (can't remember which) was pretty strict about needing both cards (maybe even both pax right there?). But on our April BA cruise you literally could NOT get staff to take both cards. (They wouldn't even bother to check if my friend's card had a UBP sticker.) They took one and charged both drinks to the one card.

 

My guess is you won't have any problem getting a drink for dear ol' mom!

Also for OP, the 18% both in bars and speciality restaurants when paying by drink/dinner is called auto-gratuity, not service charge - do your math.

 

I may be misunderstanding your point (or maybe NCL has changed the wording?), but I'm pretty sure that NCL labels the 18% on beverages as "gratuity and beverage service charge" and that on dining as "gratuity and specialty service charge."

 

For instance, from here: https://www.ncl.com/specialty-dining-package/faq you can find this:

 

ARE GRATUITIES INCLUDED IN THE SPECIALTY DINING PACKAGE PURCHASE PRICE?

No, an 18% gratuity and specialty service charge will be automatically added to the cost of your package.

 

Not to say that they might use different text elsewhere on their site or on their receipts....:rolleyes:

I booked 10/11 last night with the UDP. Who knew it only meant four days? Doesn't "U" signify unlimited? Oh well, no biggie, I reserved Manhattan for the three days in port but it was still a surprise.

 

I'm pretty sure I've read on here that people have been able to get their promo changed. Free DSC gives you $94.50 in value. 4 nights of specialty dining gives you $74.00 in value (you pay the 18 percent whether you get the four nights by promo or you pay). Times 2 passengers and you are letting $41.00 slip through your fingers. To me that would be worth making a phone call for.

No, service charges are $13.5 per person each day.

 

If you drink alcohol, the UBP is a no-brainer. You will have to pay 18% gratuity on the regular price of the package, but will still come out ahead of you have 8 or 9 drinks the entire cruise.

 

LOL, we meet again on another UBP thread.

 

Let's see if your math is correct. OP could pick free DSC, that would represent a savings of $94.50. Or they could pay an extra $68.04 (18% on UBP) and receive free drinks for the whole cruise. So the cost (direct and opportunity) of picking UBP comes to (94.50 + 68.04 =) $162.54. This equates to roughly 16 drinks for the week or close to double the number of drinks you suggested would make it "pay." Most drinkers could do this without too much trouble -- as you say a "no-brainer" (though perhaps not quite as much of one as you thought).

 

A problem might be if one half of the couple drinks and the other doesn't. The drinker in this case now has to consume over 30 drinks in a week. This jumps the calculation up toward only working for "moderate to heavy" drinkers. If you really only like a couple per day and the other half doesn't drink at all, one of the other choices is likely better.

 

I don't see why they have even bothered to include the 4 night specialty dining package in "competition" with free DSC for the current promo. You really have to be pretty feeble at math to pick that one, especially given they whack you 18% for the "service charges." (Or as another poster indicated, misunderstood what NCL means by "U.") Even if you didn't have to pay the 18% on the four nights of specialty dining, free DSC is a better deal.

2 bottles of wine without the UBP $30 x 2 = $60

UBP aprox $60 per day

Ergo 2 bottles a day is the break even point.

 

Not rocket science!

 

Without UBP, $60 can buy you 11 beers, 6 drinks, or 2 bottles of wine.

With $60 spent on UBP, you can get 11 beers free, 6 drinks free, or 0.4 bottles of wine free.

 

If UBP could get you 2 bottles of wine free, that would be the breakeven point (for bottles of wine). What you (and Keith) are saying is that $60 can buy you two bottles of wine or a day's worth of UBP. Since a day's worth of UBP can NOT get you 2 bottles of wine, both of you are comparing apples and oranges. There's no equivalency between your two choices because they do not buy/get you the same thing. No equivalency = no breakeven point.

Should I just book a large one?

 

That's what I'd do, if I was going to book a cabana. You might meet folks on the cruise that you'd want to invite to join you in your cabana or something.

 

Weird they're the same price.

I don't recall ever hearing that Sheehan left a mess, he increased profits, saved the company and most of the customers loved him.

 

As I said, I don't know. I wasn't paying attention to NCL during most of the time Sheehan was in charge. I can see there is a well-spring of good feelings toward Sheehan as evidenced by comments from many on this board over the past six months or so. (We likely cruised NCL in April as a result of polices instituted by Sheehan.) My point was to push back against those who are tossing out the red herring of "Well if Del Rio sucks, you should remember how badly Sheehan sucked!"

 

It doesn't matter that somebody else might have sucked at some other point in time. What matters is that RIGHT NOW, NCL management sucks.

Who cares whether Sheehan or Del Rio are "better" or "worse" than the other. That seems like utter red herring material. Sheehan's gone. Whether he was good or bad, or better or worse, than the current bunch running NCL is irrelevant.

 

What matters is what is happening RIGHT NOW. And right now it's pretty clear that NCL is changing and not for the better. That it changed before (if it was for the worse -- I don't know) is even more of an indictment of the current bunch -- they should have been fixing the mess that Sheehan (supposedly) made and instead they've doubled down with the cuts and price hikes.

Although the words that LtgPizza is apparently sticking into my mouth are actually in line with what I am actually saying.

 

Meanwhile, you are continuing to talk about something totally unrelated to what I'm saying.

 

What you ACTUALLY said is that the breakeven point when buying wine by the bottle with UBP is TWO BOTTLES. It's only that if you are buying very expensive wine. If you had meant the breakeven point when buying wine by the glass was the EQUIVALENT of two bottles, why didn't you just say that in the first place? :rolleyes:

Actually, if you're buying it by the glass then it is a lot less than 2 bottles a day. You need to buy it by the bottle (or preferably multiple bottles using Viva Vino) for the break even to by 2 bottles a day or more.

 

Okay you honestly seem confused now.

 

Buying two bottles of $120+ wine per day will get you to the breakeven point with UBP. You will have to buy around EIGHT bottles of $30+ wine per day to make UBP pay.