Emelda1967

I was on the Brilliance out of Tampa on its first voyage with half capacity on December 16. Everyone stayed masked for the most part and the crew was enforcing the use unless passengers were eating or drinking when inside. Needless to say there was a lot of eating and “drinking”. I saw one crew member stop a group of non-vaccinated (no bands) passengers from using the casino as a throughway. Social distancing in elevators went out the window, but that was expected. Ate in the dining room with a couple of friends. They are not arbitrarily seating people who are not traveling together at the same table. Passengers traveling alone were seated by themselves.

Some venues were for vaccinated passengers only, like the casino. Others were segregated, in the main event location, vaccinated only on the lower deck (5) and everyone on the upper deck as they desired. I don’t normally go to shows but went with my friends. Also went to the tiny theater to see movies, people remained masked. Activities were modified but still fun to participate in.  I was diligent about masking and sanitizing my hands as were my friends. We remained negative before and after. And we had a good time, it’s not quite the same, but that is to be expected. And I was glad to be onboard.

If you can’t or won’t wear a mask as required, perhaps you should wait a bit longer. I’ve five more cruises booked between now and the end of March which includes two cruises back to back for 20 nights. I’m sailing on January 3 for five nights but playing the rest of the cruises by ear.

On 10/13/2021 at 2:00 PM, JMKreno said:

Part of the issue with COVID is that it is the morbid "sweet spot" for being a big enough issue that society can't ignore it, but it is just survivable enough that most people don't see its effects first hand.

If COVID had a 10-20% IFR while maintaining its initial R0 of 2-3, the world would have done a hard lockdown like China. The national guard would have been ordered to enforce restrictions (possibly augmented by the military under the epidemic authorizations allowed for domestic military use in H.R. 5122). If things were not under control, even supply chain essential businesses would have been shut down - likely electricity restrictions, water restrictions, and other wartime-like controls would be put in place to limit the amount of people required to "keep the world turning".

But with an IFR of .5-.1% (Delta is likely closer to that 1% figure in immuno-naive individuals, although new treatments are helping) and heavily biased towards the elderly? It's just deadly enough that it's a big deal for society (and also is a severe enough disease to overrun medical systems), but not deadly enough that people see and feel the danger day to day. It allows denialism to fester, and allows people to rationalize the absurdity of not getting a safe and effective vaccine.

If COVID had an IFR of 10-20%, there would be no noise on vaccines being mandated. We wouldn't be having these conversations. If the disease was not controlled entirely by the hard lockdown mentioned earlier, the national guard would have had to secure distribution of the vaccine because people would have been so desperate to get it.

Unfortunately here we are with the IFR just under 1%, and so we're having a bunch of political and social drama about having to force people to do the right thing. Because it's necessary to protect the many, but it's not so dangerous that an individual can't roll the dice and end up ahead most of the time even without the vaccine.

I live in Florida, so I stick close to home and use a mask when I go out as well as hand sanitizer. Fully vaccinated and was boostered a few weeks ago. I'm catching up with old friends and learning a new language. After 17 cancelled/rescheduled cruises and three major trips cancelled in the past two years, this is definitely not how I planned to spend my retirement. The deaths are hard enough to deal with (three in my family last year), but people forget that the short and long term effects of COVID are still being investigated. One of my friends was among the first in January 2020 I knew who had the disease. She still can't walk 10 feet without breathing difficulty and they can't figure out why, the tests come back within normal range. My friend who contracted it in August (right before she was supposed to get vaccinated because her doctor finally cleared her medically to do so) still can't taste or smell properly. A healthy 26 yo contracted COVID in September 2020 and still has brain fog, while her boyfriend is fine. COVID will be considered a pre-existing condition since no one is sure how it will affect someone later on; medical premiums will be skyrocketing. Treatments have been successfully developed. Diseases should not be politicized. But people should ask themselves: "Do I want to be the one who turns out to be a long hauler?" We should all do what we can to be happy and healthy at the same time. 

I so enjoyed reading this, Maureen. I laughed, I cried (I spent three weeks in Italy without my luggage so I definitely felt your pain), it became a part of me (especially love Dale and the "naked" diver). If I ever see ducks laying around onboard, I will start looking for you! Thanks for the great review.

Can't wait to see what the venues look like with passengers! Have fun!

9 hours ago, Kathscof said:

Go get that sucker! I am cruising for the first time in May next year and have taken advantage of price drops since we booked in July and we have called NUMEROUS times for price adjustments.....I am now at a “cruise fare” of about 53% of the one we booked at! (Not discounting taxes and fees) 

Kathscof is correct. I call every month or when a sale is on to see if I can get a drop in price. Most of the time, it may only be a small amount but it does add up. One thing that was shared with me is that the closer it gets to the sailing date, on the newer ships at least, the total cruise fare increases exponentially, so a sale doesn't get the price down to the level of the original booking. And if the class of staterooms is sold out, you are out of luck because they have nothing to compare the original cost with. 

On 7/12/2021 at 11:20 PM, klfrodo said:

I would highly recommend that you double check and ask very specific questions regarding your BC/BS coverage.

I also have international coverage with my BC/BS policy.

I recently experienced a $3600 ER medical visit in Cancun. BC/BS paid a grand total of $72 due to using an Out of Network facility

I agree, I was told by my BC/BS representative to check and see what hospitals, clinics, and doctors were in-network for all of the ports I would be visiting. And to take that information with me. Fortunately most of the ports are in major cities where there were in-network facilities. 

I notice the Geo Blue does not cover things expense of quarantining for asymptomatic people, i.e. hotel expenses, food etc. Are there any insurance policies that also have contingencies for these events?

On 6/25/2015 at 7:08 AM, OTownNick said:

 

I'm not a slots player but based on your math I would have to place 700 $5 bets just to win $100 rebate?

I think those of us who play slots would play them anyway, so if we get something back from the casino, it’s great. I play for entertainment purposes only.  I just claimed my “free” cruise for 2022.

This was a great idea to start this topic.

On 4/8/2021 at 10:50 AM, trtog7 said:

You are expected to tip on all cruises unless they are included and then you have paid them ahead of time

Another perspective to offer. Most countries in the world don’t tip and if they do it is not to the level that we do in the United States. I’ve heard that some countries have even banned/discouraged tipping. So I understand the point of view of the other cruiser. We do not pay a decent wage to servers, bar tenders, etc. in the United States. Tips supplement their income. The U.S. average is about $2.13/hour, certainly not a living wage. Within the last couple of decades, servers get taxed on the perceived tips based on the cost of the meals, at least in the DC area. 

 I think “expected” is the key. The gratuities that we can pre-pay are automated but not mandatory. If you read the cruise line websites, there are opportunities to change the amount you pay as long as it’s done before the last day of sailing. I was on an RC transatlantic cruise from England to Ft Lauderdale and I saw a couple of passengers ask to have the gratuities completely removed from their bills. So it can be done if you wish. You can also probably argue the tips automatically added to other bills, such as the spa. It seems churlish.

I pre-pay because it’s easier even though I rarely participate in the dining room, etc. In addition I tip my stateroom attendants generously depending on the service. Working on a cruise ship is no joy ride, I’m just glad that someone is willing to do it. 

Great news. As expected the CDC did their job based on science, not some idiot politicians' views. The CDC is allowing cruises from the United States with 95% vaccinated passengers and 98% vaccinated crew, which allows for passengers under the age of 18 to 16 and those medically unable to get vaccinated to cruise. It will be a microenvironment with herd immunity.

I do so love when DeSantis is forced to back down....he should be modifying or "forgetting" his executive order banning businesses from requiring vaccination in order to provide service soon. It will be interesting to see him act like it was his own idea. What an idiot.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2021/05/01/cruise-covid-vaccinations-port-canaveral/4905928001/

2 minutes ago, Emelda1967 said:

Why does everyone think that any recommendations made by the CDC would stay the same as more is learned about the virus?

 

If you think that the government is not tracking people arriving from other countries, think on. All of your information, including your biometrics is available, if you’ve used some of the CBP apps or are a trusted traveler, for analysis and tracking. If there is an outbreak/increase in COVID cases in your home area, the government will come looking for you. 

 

From a recent article on Cruise Critic:

“Bayley clarified the pathway to the resumption -- one for ships with fully vaccinated passengers and crew and one without. A vaccinated ship would have no requirement for a test voyage, and "would be a quicker way for a resumption of service."

 

"A highly vaccinated cruise means that as soon as you have your port plan ready and lined up you can submit your request to cruise and the CDC will try their best to get you a response within five days," he said. "The target that has been stated and what we are all working towards is mid-July. And I think that after what we received last night is looking very realistic."

On 4/28/2021 at 5:08 PM, rs45thompson said:

No, cruising is not more important. With that being said vaccinated individuals according to the CDC can be outside unmasked with other vaccinated people, Be inside Unmasked with vaccinated people, don’t have to quarantine from work if exposed, etc.  So I don’t understand how a Boat full of vaccinated people will put public health and safety at risk.  I am truly perplexed.

 You are correct. The problem is not the CDC the problem is people like the governor of Florida, where the largest number of cruise originate in the United States and where most of the cruise lines have their headquarters. He had issued an executive order that no businesses, including cruise lines, can require vaccination in order to provide services. The governor of Texas has done the same. Idiots all! It is most likely that other states, California, Maryland, etc. will allow fully vaccinated cruises and the cruise lines will begin limited cruises in the U.S. from those states. TX and FL will just have to wait for another 6-7 months when the restrictions relax. It is very hard for the CDC to refute the science of a created microcosm of herd immunity aboard a ship with fully vaccinated adults and tested children with negative results.  If you have a problem...contact those governors.

Why does everyone think that any recommendations made by the CDC would stay the same as more is learned about the virus? 

From a recent article on 

Bayley clarified the pathway to the resumption -- one for ships with fully vaccinated passengers and crew and one without. A vaccinated ship would have no requirement for a test voyage, and "would be a quicker way for a resumption of service."

"A highly vaccinated cruise means that as soon as you have your port plan ready and lined up you can submit your request to cruise and the CDC will try their best to get you a response within five days," he said. "The target that has been stated and what we are all working towards is mid-July. And I think that after what we received last night is looking very realistic."

Seems like the senator from NJ understands science.

If folks want to cruise now, they can try another country. Although residents of the United States are pretty much persona non grata, so you might not get in. The countries that are allowing U.S. visitors will probably end up shutting their countries down when their infection rates climb or not and let their citizens get sick and/or die. 

The study done on the Princess indicated that the air filtration/distribution system was the primary culprit in spreading coronavirus. If you put fully vaccinated adults and tested children on a ship, and use appropriate safety protocols, then the cruise starts with the lowest risk possible. But the governors of FL and TX are against keeping passengers and crew safe that way, by banning businesses from requiring for vaccination in order to provide services, why is that? 

Cruise lines can’t function without healthy crews to work on the ships. Because no vaccine is 100% effective, having coronavirus onboard can still have an adverse impact. Being vaccinated doesn’t mean they won’t get sick and/or be quarantined, hopefully the vaccines will prevent hospitalization and/or death.

I am fascinated how everyone keep comparing the United States with the worst COVID record (STILL) after over a year into the pandemic than any other country in the world, to other countries where cruising has begun. Literally every other one of the 136+ countries have significantly lower raw numbers for infections and deaths. Every one of those numbers represents someone’s family member, friend, colleague or neighbor. It is only the fact that we have a large population that our death rates are lower than some and now with some of the population getting vaccinated. The U.S. still has twice as many COVID cases as the next closest country, India. 

We are almost at 575,000 deaths from COVID and counting. One sixth of the deaths in the entire world have occurred in the United States!

Per a recent survey, 28% of the Republicans in the U.S. are not planning to get vaccinated. Compare that to countries who have over 50% of the total population fully vaccinated and are still vaccinating, like Israel, a country where RCL will be starting cruises with vaccinated adult passengers and tested children.

People can complain all they want, by not allowing fully vaccinated cruises which the CDC would be hard pressed to deny, states like FL and TX are shooting the United States in our own foot. 

https://apple.news/AvGppoXm4R7GqMrWxHaMMyQ

If anyone really wants to have a better understanding of immunity and COVID-19, this is a pretty interesting article. 

On 4/9/2021 at 6:48 PM, Tree_skier said:

I sent the email clia requested.  I doubt it will do much good being sent to the worthless politicians that it is being sent to but you can always hope.  With regards to flying... I'm heading to the airport in an hour and half.  I'll let you know how full my plane is and what seats are marked off.

 

The idea that cruising can't restart with reduced capacities and a fully vaccinated ship is preposterous.  While cruising is a more extended period of time compared to flying, flying is a far more concentrated congregate setting.  The malls are packed, restaurants are operating and all sorts of activities are being engaged in safely.  To suggest that cruising can't do the same isn't reasonable.

We agree on a fully vaccinated ship with additional precautions.  “Safely” is a relative term but the CDC is not looking to achieve zero risk with cruise ship travel.

I am still confounded as to why people disagree with probably one of the most effective safety procedures of “fully vaccinated” passengers. The governors of Florida and TX have issued bans on businesses requiring proof of vaccination before providing services, including cruise ships. Norweign was planning to propose fully vaccinated cruises to the CDC, which would likely be difficult to turn down with other reasonable safety precautions in place (requiring negative tests, changes in procedures and venues, etc.) However, the FL governor effectively killed those types of cruises out of Florida. Cruise lines will continue to move their departure ports outside of the U.S. for the foreseeable future.

I think we can get off track comparing a mall or a restaurant where one spends a limited amount of time to a cruise ship; it’s like comparing diamonds to coal. There may be some similarities (origin, organic makeup, etc.) but the differences are significant. 

There was a retrospective study done on the Princess cruise ship outbreak. It was determined that the air distribution/filtration system was the major culprit in coronavirus dissemination. Cruises are two nights or longer, potentially thousands people are in close proximity during that time-all breathing the same air (laughing, talking, eating and drinking) and moving around the ship, thousands of touch points around the ship, hundreds out of the thousands not washing their hands or using sanitizers (we’ve all seen them) as they are supposed to...probably everyone on this post has been on at least one ship with a norovirus outbreak. And how many of us have seen people wearing their mask below their noses? Many viruses can harbor in nasal passages for up to 72 hours. 

Airplanes have long had built in HEPA filtration systems which remove about 95% of potential disease agents. I think the new Virgin Voyages ship is the only ship built with a HEPA filtration system. The other cruise lines are looking to retrofit some of their ships. That process is probably uncomfortably expensive. 

The longest flights usually range from 11-13 hours, domestic flights are usually between 1-6 hours. You stay in your seat most of time, now you are wearing a mask, your potential disease spread is likely limited to 3-6 ft without a mask while actively eating or drinking (depending on which study you agree with). The airport is probably about the same risk level as a mall?

Hope the flight went well. 

On 4/9/2021 at 10:05 PM, publicpersona said:

And not a single one as a result of cruising. While unfortunate that people are dying, the number is dropping quickly, and full vaccination has proven to be 100% effective against severe cases or death. On a cruise where everyone is vaccinated, how is your statistic relevant?
 

Not to get into an argument, but your statement: “full vaccination has proven to be 100% effective against severe cases or death” appears to include the assertion that vaccination is 100% against those two scenarios.

It is not...as I stated nothing related to a vaccine is 100%. Since the vaccines are said to be only 65%-95% effective, that alone indicates that they are not 100% effective against severe cases or death. I think that when people quote medical/scientific information without having a medical/scientific background, the information is often taken out of context or misunderstood. I don’t know what your background is and don’t mean to offend. However, I’ve had a medical degree for over 40 years with a 28 year career specifically in disease exclusion and eradication.

Please don’t think that we disagree about the safety of fully vaccinated. I agree with you completely on the subject. I just like to keep the misunderstandings to a minimum. 

13 hours ago, publicpersona said:

And not a single one as a result of cruising. While unfortunate that people are dying, the number is dropping quickly, and full vaccination has proven to be 100% effective against severe cases or death. On a cruise where everyone is vaccinated, how is your statistic relevant?
 

Probably because there are so few people from the U.S. who are cruising. But you have no basis for your statement because there is no database tracking who died from COVID as a result of a cruise available to the public. 

However, I can say with personal knowledge having administered thousands of vaccinations in my career that there is no vaccine that is 100% effective against anything. There are multiple factors that affect efficacy, immune status and the body’s ability to respond, age, administration, maintenance of the vaccine, the list goes on and on.  

I agree that ‘fully vaccinated’ cruises (ages 16 and above) are safer than not mandating vaccination. Even safer would be only allowing age 16 and older as fully vaccinated; no children under 16 as this age group is the most likely to carry the disease asymptotically, variants included. But even I wouldn’t suggest that. The vaccines make people safer, every precaution we take to keep ourselves and others safe make will get us closer to cruising. 

CDC is not going to decrease requirements without appropriate effective safeguards in place. We would be better off requesting our politicians to go with the fully vaccinated scenario.

I’ve never understood how people are willing to kill themselves or others (or worse have chronic post disease issues) because of they think they have the right to do so. You have the right to not get vaccinated but you don’t have the right to jeopardize someone else’s health. If you don’t want to get vaccinated, stay home a little longer...The latest survey indicated that most people would definitely cruise if everyone was vaccinated.

Airplanes have HEPA filtration air systems that are efficient in deactivating most viruses and bacteria. Most cruise ships do not. And you don’t remain on a plane for 3 nights.

The CLIA letter is supporting the restart of cruising from U.S. ports without appropriate safeguards in place. They can resume cruising in other countries because theIr disease rate is much lower than the United States and they have appropriate restrictions in place. So there is less risk of COVID departing from other countries than leaving from here. Comparing those countries to the United States is almost ludicrous.

The CDC is not going to change their requirements just because of CLIA or any other entity; the United States has the highest number of cases, 31,000,000 and deaths (560,000) in the entire world. This is a shame and an embarrassment because the U.S. has the best medical resources in the world. But unfortunately, the past administration minimized the disease and the risks and therefore did not do what was needed to control the disease here.  (I know because it was my job, before I retired at the end of 2019 from the federal government, to keep diseases that affect animals and humans out of the U.S.)

Norwegian was planning to request the CDC to accept cruises with “fully vaccinated” adult passengers with negative testing for 16-yo children and under along with other safety procedures to speed up the process of allowing cruises from Florida and other states; which probably would have worked, especially if other countries were successful.

CLIA should be urging the states to support “fully vaccinated” cruises for now, and getting these governors from FL (my home state) and TX to reverse their executive orders banning businesses from requiring proof of vaccination in order to provide services. I am constantly amazed how these two continue to shoot their constituents and their economy in the foot by their thoughtless actions. And by people who support those actions. Cruise lines are busy moving their business to other countries, their economies will grow. The states that do support fully vaccinated will have cruises long before FL and TX. 

The requirement for vaccination wouldn’t even last that long, probably a year or less. It would give time for the pandemic to slow down and also give those of us who are vaccinated a chance to sail and use up some of those future cruise credits (12 cancelled cruises and counting.)