Damicom

On 12/3/2023 at 6:43 PM, PhD-iva said:

They are getting some bad reviews on BBB. Might as well stick to the devil I know……

https://www.bbb.org/us/ma/boston/profile/travel-agency/overseas-adventure-travel-0021-3848

This surprises me. My experience has been excellent.

On 12/4/2023 at 8:47 AM, Hlitner said:

Funny thing is most other cruise lines are still going to Turkey and have no issues with future scheduled port calls in Turkey.  Guess the war only impacts “O.”  And Turkey is over 1000 miles from Israel.

The problem with Turkey has nothing to do with the war. It’s a new government that is very unfriendly towards Western tourism. Other line are canceling as well or will be canceling in the future unless Turkey has policy changes. I realize it’s become popular here to blame Oceania for pretty much everything that goes wrong in the world, but this is definitely not Oceania’s fault.

On 11/30/2023 at 1:57 PM, PhD-iva said:

Thanks for the good thought. I met 2 friends on a recent cruise and in 2025 or 2026 they want to do a Cape Town to Doha cruise on Regent, so I will save up my pennies for that pricey cruise.
Other than that, I have no interest in going to Africa. I lived in West Africa in my youth, and I kind of don’t want to replace those memories.

OAT has wonderful trips all over the world. Take a look at their web page. You might like it. No single supplement. Mostly women traveling. Nice group feeling

On 11/29/2023 at 7:14 PM, Subub said:

Oceania should have handled the Middle East tragedy as they did COVID, where they greatly altered  our 77 day cruise in 2022, due to closed countries, and offered three options:  1) A Full Cash Refund, 2) A FCC worth 125% of the original cruise, with no limitations, 3) Sail and receive a 25% Cash Refund.  With over 240 Cruise Nights on Oceania we HAD considered them our Go-To Cruise Line, their on-ship staff being great.  BUUUUTTTT,  Corporate has totally mishandled the Middle East cruises on the Riviera and Nautica ships.  While I understand that they need to get both ships into the Pacific for the Winter, 2024 Season, their twice on again, off again restrictive FCC has shown how desperate they are, thereby causing a PR debacle, which will sting for many years to come, if they survive it, instead of following their COVID strategy and "doing the right thing".

Forcing concerned clients to resort to their Credit Card Companies, the Media, Government Agencies, Social Media, etc. for resolution does not paint a pretty picture of a company that I would be willing to do business with. RIP Oceania.

Honestly, this whole thing has become exhausting. RIP Oceania? You really wish them dead because you’re upset about your cruise? You must know they didn’t start a war in the Middle East simply to inconvenience you. If you know anything at all about the Middle East, you’d know that it’s explosive and risky.  When you booked your cruise, every single communication they had with you reminded you of their cancellation policy and advised you to buy insurance.  You knew this. If you didn’t insure your trip, then you knowingly decided to take the risk. How does that make Oceania complicit? 
I’m scheduled to board the Riviera in Abu Dhabi December 29. I accept that it’s possible the ship won’t get there or I’ll decide it’s too risky to go. That’s why I have insurance and that’s why my husband and I agreed that our lives are worth more than the price of a cruise. If need be, we’ll walk away.  But wishing Oceania dead because you didn’t adequately protect yourself is just wrong and kind of awful. 

5 hours ago, golferpcc said:

Federal Maitime commission won't help as the ship started out of US waters, ship is not registered in USA and neither is Oceania. 

Why would an Attorney General get involved with a cruise ship that had to change its itinerary because of a war?

3 minutes ago, roninman said:

Again very true.  But really irrelevant in the discussion between consumer and corporation, unless the intent is to guilt trip a consumer into silently accepting his unfortunate lot.   That disappointed consumer giving his money to the corporation helps neither Israeli nor Palestinian, although it admittedly does help the corporation.

Irrelevant? Listen to yourself. It’s the crux of this issue. Thank you for making my point.

17 minutes ago, roninman said:

 

Very true.  Nor did customers purchase the service from the corporation expecting the inconvenience.

 

Nevertheless, at the end of the day, the customer is the one inconvenienced.   And the corporation is the one not inconvenienced.   Hard to feel sorry for the party who keeps the money, and not for the party who is without it.

 

If only there were some other way the corporation could have handled things.  To maybe even kind of show hey we're all in this together.

 

 

At the end of the day it’s the Israelis and Palestinians who are “inconvenienced “. And some people here should have some perspective and empathy. 

7 minutes ago, roninman said:

 

Very true.  Nor did customers purchase the service from the corporation expecting the inconvenience.

 

Nevertheless, at the end of the day, the customer is the one inconvenienced.   And the corporation is the one not inconvenienced.   Hard to feel sorry for the party who keeps the money, and not for the party who is without it.

 

If only there were some other way the corporation could have handled things.  To maybe even kind of show hey we're all in this together.

 

 

I never said I think Oceania is right in not allowing FCC. I said I think they should. I also think there is a shared responsibility. When passengers are calling them crooks and thieves, the “we’re all in this together” argument doesn’t hold up. I just think there are more mature and successful ways of dealing with adversity than throwing a tantrum

3 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

There is a lot of truth in here regarding the area this trip was booked - we have always felt it a bit dicey and particularly so after a dangerous situation we were caught in while in Egypt. 
 

That said, I do wonder how you, and others who are not personally affected by this, would feel. Easy to be armchair quarterbacks. We can all fall into that role from time to time, but just step back and think about how you would feel if FCC were offered, then rescinded. Of some people received FCC, and others did not. If some people, likely because they were able to get this story into the NYT (and good for them), were refunded their monies. Yet you, who are no different than these others on this same cruise, are met with silence. 
 

I am 100% in with Cruisemom42 comments post #100. I have followed her for years, and she doesn’t make these types of posts lightly. 

You’re unfair making assumptions about me. I am directly affected. I’m boarding the Riviera on Dec 29 in Abu Dhabi. Also, I’m Jewish.

I do think that Oceania should allow people who feel uncomfortable about the 11/29 cruise to reschedule .  If was offered to me as an option I might take it.  However, I can’t wholly blame Oceania for the situation.  They’re stuck between a rock and a hard place. They did not go to Israel  and start a war intending to inconvenience passengers and keep their money. I do believe they’re struggling to find the right solution but the situation in the Middle East is day by day. I don’t believe Oceania is anymore evil or money grubbing than any other large business and in fact, in my experience they’ve been more generous than some other cruise lines. I’m offended by the insults being hurled at them and don’t believe it’s productive.

I travel quite a bit and I know that the world is unpredictable. That’s why I buy insurance, get vaccinations and do what I can to feel comfortably safe. I also take responsibility for my own decisions. I booked the cruise. Read the contract. Agreed to the contract.
When the war broke out my husband and I agreed that if we were uncomfortable, we’d walk away from the cruise. It would be an unpleasant financial hit but possibly better than the alternative.

In looking back over these postings, initially when the war broke out, most posts were still about finding  bridge partners and other cruise related activities. It was only when ports got cancelled that people got upset. So, it the problem really the war and safety or the disappointment in the itinerary?
Now, I’ve been on cruises where ports that were special to me were cancelled. some in advance of the cruise. Some on the day off. I certainly understand that it’s very disappointing. I’ve been on tropical vacations where it’s rained every day. I’ve been on ski vacations where there’s been no snow. I’ve had theater tickets and come down with a fever. Nobody owed me a refund for these things. I’m a grownup and can accept disappointment and responsibility. 
The temper tantrums and mudslinging we’re seeing here are not the route to problem solving. If I were Oceania I’d have stopped listening by now……and in fact….I’m tired of it and will be signing off too. 

23 hours ago, geoacs said:

We are booked on the 40 day cruise from Barcelona to Singapore. Being Canadians, we have been informed by Oceania that we will not be able to disembark in India due to that country's suspension of Canadian visas.  Since that notice in mid October, India has resumed issuing visas to Canadians, but O has not notified us of the change.  We already obtained our visas prior to the suspension, but wondering if O will allow us to disembark in India???

India decides if you can get off. Not Oceania.

10 minutes ago, Damicom said:

Which cruise lines are offering refunds? I haven’t found any.

Never mind, I found it. Yes, it looks like all the cruise lines are offering credits. I imagine the pressure on Oceania will ultimately be successful. 

21 hours ago, edgee said:

You make a valid point that is generally applicable to cruise vacations. However this horrible war presents the cruise industry and guests with an unprecedented situation. Some cruise lines have chosen to step up and go beyond just their contractual obligations. Oceania has not. And reniging on authorized verbal promises to make things right goes beyond acceptable corporate behavior. Their behavior is NOT ok.

Which cruise lines are offering refunds? I haven’t found any.

22 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

I imagine a lot are by people who THINK they have cancellation for any reason.

 

Conflating a cancellation by the cruiseline with cancellation by the passenger.

 

 

I certainly hope they checked that out before the cancelled. I was booked on a Viking cruise to the Arctic but the ship got stuck in Norway during a storm.  We were in London ready to board but there was no ship and they weren’t sure when it would get there. We were going to miss at least 2 days and 2 ports. The storm and the delay were not their fault but I tried to cancel as I felt I could find better things to do in Europe than wait for a ship that may or may not get there. And the itinerary was no longer the itinerary I signed on for. Viking told me I could cancel and lose 100% of my payment. I mean, there wasn’t even a ship to board and we couldn’t cancel.  We ended up boarding on what would have been our third day of a ten day cruise. There was no compensation. No apologies. Viking did nothing to appease us. Not even a free cocktail. We ended up having an absolutely great time in spite of the setbacks. 🤷🏻‍♀️

21 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

Likely true. I sure hope that for their sake they checked before doing so. 
 

OP is not the only poster here on CC and another social media site who has experienced almost the same exact circumstances. Thank you for further explaining the details of what occurred.
Others finding themselves in similar situations have engaged with TA’s, who have tried to assist.  The booked passengers have as well. Oceania isn’t budging. 
I am just not quite sure how there can be a legit argument made on behalf of Oceania with this specific situation. 

It’s not just Oceania. Other cruise lines are doing the same thing. Itineraries have been altered. They obviously can’t take ships in to a war zone. Other lines have been adhering to the same cancellation policy. This is why they offer travel insurance with pretty much every communication they send you once you book your cruise.  

6 hours ago, Sthrngary said:

@PhD-iva I have NO skin in this game.  I take NO sides here. I also get in trouble every time I post on topics that say, "I will never cruise this brand again."  In all things in life, there are facts, non-facts and the truth.  To get to the truth, one needs to have access to accurate information from both sides.  You won't find that on Social Media even on cruisecritic.com.  We tend to post what we believe the truth is that supports our position.  Human nature.  The brand does not post their positions so to find that out, they have to correspond with their guests in question. The letter I did read above was worded in a very interesting way.  I have not seen the first letter that stated the details of any offer and not sure if it was just verbal. 

 

In this case, the OP has stated they had a window to take actions.  Again, I have not as of yet seen anything in writing on start or end of that offer from the Brand.  I do not challenge those that say they were told they had time.  I also do not put past any brand to pull back an offer when they find out most clients are cancelling.  Each side has a point of view and I bet each side can debate their positions.  We debate on Social Media, the brand rarely puts anything in writing because it can come back to haunt them. 

 

What I do know is one of the ships in question is the Riviera.  I am on the Riviera from November 9 to the 19, 2023. On the 19th when we disembark in Barcelona, Spain, the Riviera was going out for a 10 day and 30 day trip.  These cruises especially the 10 day went from ALL categories in a Waitlist, to WIDE open.  That tells me LOTS of guest cancelled. That would lead me to assume, lots of guest took the offer, LOTS!!!  Then this post comes out about the same cruises.  I think we all can make a determination what happened here when LOTS of folks started to cancel.  

 

Did the OP do something wrong, NO.  They are the injured party here.  Did the Brand in this case Oceania do something wrong, not sure.  Don't have all the facts but sure seems like the could have handled it better.  Please lets be clear, the root cause here is the conflict in the middle east.  The rest is cause and effect from that stimulus. That was nether the guest or the brands fault. 

 

This situation is going to play out and who knows, maybe everyone can have a win.  Stranger things have happened recently.  

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

I imagine a lot of the cancellations were people who have trip insurance that allows cancellation for any reason. 

3 hours ago, brdgplay22 said:

All of these comments are reasonable.  Let me clarify a few things.  We got a revised itinerary on 10/20 at approximately 3 PM EDT - deleting all Middle Eastern ports, adding two more ports in Greece.  This now came to five ports in Greece and one in Cyprus, two from the original itinerary, two from the cancellation of Israel, and these two new ones.  In all of this some ports were deleted, then added back in - but ending with six ports in Greece and Cyprus.  Then nine consecutive sea days to Dubai, including cruising the Red Sea and Suez Canal.

 

When we called on Monday, 10/23, we were told that we could get FCC as long as we made a decision by our SAIL DATE, i.e., 11/30, and we could select any cruise through 2025.  We would  not be able to use on more than one cruise.  If it cost more than the original cruise, we would owe more; it if was less, we would receive no refund.  On Tuesday, 10/24, we looked at future cruise options to decide what trip we wanted to take.  On Tuesday morning, a friend notified me that Oceania had pulled the FCC offer.  When we called about it, they confirmed we could no longer get an FCC, that "upper management" had rescinded that offer.  That is when we wrote O and received the letter posted above, advising we could go on this now Greek Isle and repositioning cruise or forfeit the money we paid for the Holy Land and Arabian Jewels cruise.

 

Keep in mind, the original information O provided us verbally said that we had until November 30 to make a decision about changing.  They did not notify us that the date for that decision had changed.

 

We have been on many cruises.  There have been times when ports were changed. (Unfortunately, in 2016, Celebrity had to substitute an additional day in Athens because things were so volatile in Istanbul.)  We have also missed ports because of various reasons.  We have never had a cruise make wholesale changes to their itinerary so that it does not vaguely resemble the tour we booked and paid for.

 

PLEASE do not misunderstand.  I am in sympathy for the people of Israel.  We have several friends with family there.  I do not fault O for cancelling that port or the others.  However, we do not want to go to the Greek Isles again, especially in December - and for the price we paid!  To be perfectly honest I am concerned for our safety in Istanbul, after seeing the demonstrations there yesterday, and am also wary about going through the Canal and the Red Sea at this time.  We would just like O to honor their original offer and give us an FCC on a future cruise.

Do you have trip insurance?

4 hours ago, kate7047 said:

I was asked to move this post to this board. Just meant to be FYI and possibly more statistics than you care for, but I find it useful while waiting to hear if true positive or false positive (or they may never tell us). 

I believe this is a general statement, but the false positive frequency has an inverse correlation with prevalence.    With Sky's passengers and crew being fully vaccinated, the true prevalence should be low, say <1%. Which would make the false positive rate pretty high. This is from an FDA bulletin 11/2020 which explains the inverse correlation. Reference at bottom.- 

 

Remember that positive predictive value (PPV) varies with disease prevalence when interpreting results from diagnostic tests. PPV is the percent of positive test results that are true positives. As disease prevalence decreases, the percent of test results that are false positives increase.

• For example, a test with 98% specificity would have a PPV of just over 80% in a population with 10% prevalence, meaning 20 out of 100 positive results would be false positives.
• The same test would only have a PPV of approximately 30% in a population with 1% prevalence, meaning 70 out of 100 positive results would be false positives.  This means that, in a population with 1% prevalence, only 30% of individuals with positive test results actually have the disease.
• At 0.1% prevalence, the PPV would only be 4%, meaning that 96 out of 100 positive results would be false positives.
• Health care providers should take the local prevalence into consideration when interpreting diagnostic test results.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/letters-health-care-providers/potential-false-positive-results-antigen-tests-rapid-detection-sars-cov-2-letter-clinical-laboratory

 

Punch line is this may be a false positive. Hope so. They will be rechecking. One of the reasons that Iceland dropped incoming visitor testing earlier this month is there had been only a few positives AMONG FULLY VACCINATED ARRIVALS since Iceland reopened and all of them turned out to be false positives. (n.b.- this does not hold true where prior probability of infection is higher, like in un-vaccinated people.) 

 

The passenger was retested and was still positive 

6 hours ago, Clay Clayton said:

He is not aboard our ship. 

He’s in Iceland ready to board the next cruise

6 hours ago, duquephart said:

 

You've answered your own question.

I canceled my September cruise after reading about this. I realized that one positive test can derail an entire cruise. I decided it’s too expensive and too stressful to take the risk right now.  I’ll wait.

16 hours ago, VolTravler said:

Thanks for the report, Clay.  So sorry this has happened and I know the anxiety level will be up on your cruise.  Keep us posted as you can, and we hope this can be resolved quickly.  I think there is Viking precedent for such an event, perhaps the Bahamas?  Anyway, thanks again!

 

Peace!

Bermuda 

Well Bob, I have to say I enjoyed your post. I was only on a segment of the cruise. I played trivia with Betsy and although I didn’t have the opportunity to meet you, I certainly followed your and Betsy’s story. It’s nice to hear that you are both well and happy enough to be making future plans. Thank you for sharing. Happy Holidays

Sorry you were disappointed. I would agree the food quality has declined, which is a mistake at management level, but I’ve enjoyed Oceania and I think that even when the ships are refurbished there’s a “taste” issue in choices of decor and especially artwork that is not great. Neon pink bars and bright orange curtains blocking the views in the Terrace cafe feel dated back to the sixties. But overall I like the laid back ambiance , the destinations, ease of travel.  I find the staff, with occasional exceptions to be excellent. The evening entertainment, yes, is awful but I generally skip it in favor of a good book, rising early for the next adventure.  

I hope you find what you’re looking for in vacation travel

I disembarked in Monte Carlo last summer and we were told that taxis were scarce and it was better to arrange transportation in advance. We were staying in France for a while so we rented a car. The rental office was walking distance from the ship

1 hour ago, tvlbum said:

 

I am jealous of you guys.  How does Oceania treat shareholder credit.  One for the entire cruise or one per segment?  Should I have booked by segments?

What does “shareholder credit” mean?

Congratulations Bob and Betsy. Wishing you lots of happiness and easy sailing.