Two4Sea

Regarding St. Pierre & Miquelon,

-What are France's covid rules for US visitors?

-For covid purposes SP&M residents have been able to continue their privilege of local travel to and from Canada almost as if they were Canadians. Connecting themselves with another country could impact that.

Bill

Caveat: we have 10 times more days on Seabourn than on Crystal.

Dining -I'm not sure if you wish to dine solo or are asking if company can be arranged. Nonetheless we have always received a table for 2 when we asked for it, no significant wait either. Seabourn is open seating, Crystal was just adapting to it when we tried them. We have seen Seabourn solos with a table to themselves and deduced it was their choice. Then we know of a frequent traveler who always had an intermediate officer at her table, maybe it was a break for the officer too. The maître d' often asks guests if they would like to share a table but that is just as an offer to them not a nudge. Seabourn also has hosted tables most nights and singles are particularly sent invites, which they can take up, decline or let it be known that they are not interested. It is also not unusual for guests to extend on the spot invites to acquaintances newly met at cocktails before dinner. So whichever style you are thinking of you'll be able to get. With only 225 couples the maître d' remembers preferences very quickly.

Food -we slightly favour Seabourn but Crystal's specialty restaurants are particularly good.

Attentiveness -Seabourn's old practice seemed to default to doing whatever the guest asked rather than "if it's not in the book, don't do it". The only limit was the obvious that it mustn't impose on others and the cost has to stay trifling. Having said that, the outstanding case was when a lady's wedding ring fell into the water as she stepped off to go on a tour. She was stricken but forlornly went on her way. When she returned she found that the company had hired two divers and recovered the ring. A much smaller instance was when we were sitting in a quiet observation lounge as sunset approached. The captain wandered in and we discussed the "green flash". He said it was easier to see with binoculars and went down a deck to the bridge and got us a pair.

Bill

jjs217 -Seabourn has planned their exact dates already, the announcement said that the Quest's winter 2021-22 cruises will be same as winter 2020-21. The day of the month will be the same, just change the year. As I mentioned in post #3 above you can get the 2020-21 brochure from Seabourn's website. This is what the plan now looks like:

Nov 7 2020 2021 43 days Miami-Santiago-Falklands-BA

Nov 29 2020 2021 21 days Santiago-Falklands-BA

Dec 20 12 2020 2021 24 days BA-South Georgia-Santiago

Jan 13 2021 2022 21 days Santiago-Falklands-BA

Feb 3 2021 2022 21 days BA-Falklands-Santiago

Feb 24 2021 2022 24 days Santiago-South Georgia-BA

Feb 24 2021 2022 45 days Santiago-South Georgia-BA-Manaus

Mar 20 2021 2022 21 days BA-Manaus

Mar 20 2021 2022 36 days BA-Manaus-Miami

Apr 10 2021 2022 15 days Manaus-Miami

Apr 25 2021 2022 no announcement yet

Bill

The independent websites I use just deleted the Quest's 2020-21 Antarctic schedule but Seabourn still has their 2020-2021 brochure online, open it then download the PDF while you can. A quick glance says all the trips are identical except for direction and whether they go via the Falklands or South Georgia.

We took the Pride all the way around South America in 2009 and enjoyed all the Chilean and Argentinian stops, one of our best trips.

Bill

Sorry, it was not HAL's descriptions that I thought had changed, it was their itinerary list and map. Alas I did not keep copies to back up my old memory.

Bill

Thanks for the clarification Chief. I do recollect small modifications being done to The Quest's hull before Seabourn started their original Antarctic program.

What we seem to have come to is that the Polar Code rules for existing ships are not quite the brick wall deadline that they first seemed to be. The neccesary modifications may be achievable after all

Bill
 

 While I wrote ChEng replied to the Oceania board

Bill

For interest:

Bill

Part I -the rules
I too have appreciated ChEngKP75 input on this subject to CruiseCritic. In view of it, I'm going to try a layman's summary of Antarctic rules.

Ice Class -is a long running rating that is to do with the hull's ability to withstand hitting floating ice and to hit back, breaking ice up to the heaviest levels. Ordinary cruise ships have little or no rating here.

The Polar Code is a new requirement to do with:
-the officer's training for navigating in the cold and ice
-the fitness of the bridge equipment re cold and ice encrusting
-the fitness of the fire system re cold and ice encrusting
-the fitness of the lifeboat system re cold and ice encrusting
-the ability to protect and muster the passengers under those conditions
-the ability to evacuate them despite those conditions
-the ability to do all this despite the great distance to any help.
It also includes some items about respecting the polar environment particularly the type of fuel carried.

The Polar Code came into place Jan 2017, at that instant all existing ships were grandfathered. The grandfathering is to expire at the ship's first major inspection, that being an appropriate time to install any needed modifications. As the space between major inspections is 5 years, all the existing ships will have reached one by Jan 2022. So there will be no grandfathered ships left at that point and only ones that have been built or refitted to the Code will be eligible to enter the Polar code areas.

The Polar Code applies to any area south of 60 degrees in the Antarctic and north of 60 degrees in the Arctic except for a bulge around Northern Europe. A ship at the 60 degree south line can barely see the outermost reach of the Antarctic at South Georgia Island, nothing else. Seeing berg bits or wildlife would be random.

The Code has 3 degrees of requirements based on the ice one expects to encounter. This ranges from sticking to completely clear water to brushing by floating ice to serious ice breaking.

Part II -opinion
So a cruise ship with no Ice Class rating and being careful to only sail in clear water could qualify by just meeting the knowledge, cold, ice encrusting and survival equipment requirements. The industry's initial reaction seems to have been that such a refit would be too costly however and that expedition ships were the way to go. The fact that landings are limited to small ships would contribute to this view.

One other drawback to a refit would be the revenue lost while the ship spent extra days in the yard. This may be what Covid has changed, the ships are laid up anyway so the work would not be a five million dollar a week revenue loss (say US$500 p/p per day, 700 pax medium/small ship). There is also enough lead time here to see how well bookings take to the idea before actually having to contract with the ship yard.

So far:
HAL -has been using "Antarctic Experience" in their 2022 write-ups but their itineraries and maps had not shown actually going south of 60 degrees. When I look today however they do reach the Palmer Archipelago.
Oceania -has a Jan 9, 2022 trip with Antarctic drive cruising points named and a map showing them.
Seabourn -has announced that the Quest will perform their customary full 2020-21 Antarctic visit and landings in 2021-22.

I think what we have here is that the lines are coming around to seeing how to run their familiar Antarctic cruises and still conform to the Polar Code.

My two bits worth, Bill

Your cancellation may be just be a case of Seabourn revising the Quest's 2021-22 program to take over its previous 2020-21 plan.

After they have a chance to contact everybody you may find you can book something close to your intended plan and, fingers crossed, close to the past Antarctic pricing. CruiseTimetables still has Quest's pre Covid 2020-21 schedule on display, it can be translated to 2021-22.

Bill

P&O's 1954 Arcadia, 3 days around Vancouver Island 1973. The best part was 30,000 ton us quietly coming up behind a 2 man tugboat with a log tow in narrow Muchalat Inlet (Gold River). When our captain realized the tug hadn't noticed us he gave a long blast on the horn. Never saw a tug move so fast. The third night we were already back in Vancouver harbour but anchored rather than tie up so that we could party without breaking the liquor laws of the day.

Bill
 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2755299-regatta-ph-connecting-suite/?tab=comments#comment-60165947  post 13 solved the concern completely.

Bill
 

I would have though the long term break even was more like 60-75% But with the present high cost of standing still, any income you can get that is greater than its immediate direct cost is good because it will at least pay part of those fixed costs. Yes a program should pay for all of its fixed costs but for the short term this will get the monthly loss to go down.

Bill

LHT -so the time the plane's outbound leg to Vancouver the day before was delayed by European radar problems and while we barely made our onward connection at Heathrow our bags didn't get forwarded until the next day; ...that all didn't happen? Or the time the plane was bit late, lost its gate slot and we had be bussed from the spot where the plane got parked at a cost of about 45 minutes? My original point wasn't to split hairs on cautious timing, it was to suggest to ToxM what O can face in offering air to many of its customers.

ToxM -it's your cruise but I wouldn't consider all website statements to be that expertly written. The other posters have spoken well enough to the potental meanings.

Bill

ToxM -I've seen this as a broad statement before. The majority of O's clients are from North America, they can't get to Southampton for an early afternoon boarding without an overnight either on the plane or in a hotel. O is just cautioning them that if they take O's air, the low price ticket may well be on a flight the day before and O isn't going to pick up the hotel cost.

For instance if I left Vancouver today (Wednesday) the earliest I could make a 2pm boarding in Southampton would be Friday, one night on the plane with a mid-day arrival at Heathrow and then an overnight in London or Southampton. There is not only 9-10 hour's flying time from the west coast there is an 8 hour time change against me.

As a UK resident this of course would not be relevant to you.

Bill

Turtles06 -We did LAN Ushuaia-El Calafate- BA-Cordoba a decade back. At each landing the passengers applauded the touchdown. The ex-military pilots prided themselves on getting stopped halfway down the runway so that they could turn directly to the terminal instead of having to taxi back from the far end.

TiogaCruiser -We did a wine tour east out of SCL. If I took the Spanish off the road signs I could have sworn I was in BC's Okanogan wine country.

Bill

2 hours ago, rafinmd said:

I'm pretty sure their laws lump the entire EU together.  Many of the river ships plying the Rhine are registered in Malta.

 

Roy

Norway cooperates with but is not part of the EU.

Bill

Looked at the newer Insignia pictures (after Dec 2018 refurb). Because the TV is now on the sitting area wall and the sofa needs to be opposite it the designer placed the TV on the connecting door/dressing table side and the sofa on the non door side. That way the second chair for the dining table beneath the TV is all that needs to be moved when the door is needed.

Bill

I think the loose PH sofa bed and the small dining table are exchangeable. I visited Insignia 8010 last year and it was laid out opposite to LHT's 2017 Regatta 8010 photo. The OP's 8019 is the starboard equivalent to Insignia's port 8016, its table was against the connecting door.

Connecting doors do leak voices and TV. Oddly it's the high notes that pass, because of the small gaps at the door jamb. We could hear part of our neighbor's breakfast conversations while we were having ours. A steward on a HAL trip once fixed this for us by applying tape over the gap at the door jamb, all the way around. That matte finish Scotch Magic tape would be good as it doesn't leave a gum even after  weeks. The R class has a small weatherstrip seal in the door jamb but it has hardened over the years.

Bill

On CruiseTimeTables, after selecting a ship, the key is to click on "Departures in 2021" at the top. Then you see the whole year. Clicking the date there will give a map and itinerary with times.

Bill

With regard to "other factors" I would give a bit of weight to the stability of Turkey's political positions. Our 2016 visit to Istanbul had the consolation of being very uncrowded because of issues in the preceding months. The downside was that the last weeks steaming towards there had us concerned about the call being cancelled. It's a fine point of personal choice, we'd readily go again but would give a moment's thought to a last minute plan B.

We've been to ports on both seas and agree that there is lots of appeal to them. With only 5-6 ports in mind have you just written out the port names, Googled TripAdvisor "best active things to do in xxxx" and noted what would wow you? Maybe that would tip the scale.

Bill

Princess and HAL have had an edge at Glacier Bay because of their 50 year histories in Alaska tourism but all the lines have a chance at getting slots. Our 2017 Crystal cruise included both Glacier and Hubbard.

Bill

Queen Charlotte Sound -an expanse of ocean, lucky if you can see the mountains on the shore

Yakutat Bay -RKA's answer, on the way into Hubbard Glacier

Hubbard Glacier -very good, plenty beautiful from the ship. Ventures won't get really close because of unpredictable ice calving.

Inian Island -Ventures excursions

Icy Strait Point -a private tourist town

Glacier Bay -RKA's answer

Stephens Passage -RKA's answer

Misty Fjords -RKA's answer

Prince Rupert, Canada -a maritime city of 12,000

Whale Channel -follows Princess Royal Channel. Leads to Grenville Channel, a novel straight passage between the mountains

Princess Royal Channel -a narrow scenic channel to sail through for some distance

Alert Bay, Canada -a fishing village of 1,000 and a local ferry terminal

Simply Google the name of each place, info pops up on the right and a clickable map shows where it is. On Seabourn's website itinerary click the "Learn More" on each place for a description and a shore excursion list which will show what type they offer and what they see. On a print of the itinerary map note the arrival and departure times to realize that some of these places might just be steamed by on the way to the next port or even be passed in the night. Seymour Narrows is very attractive but the time is controlled by the tide **. Large ship cruises often go outside Vancouver Island rather than through the Narrows, Seabourn's itineraries are much better at truly following the scenic Inside passageways.

Bill

** On Sept 17, 2021 the turn of the tide at Seymour Narrows will be about 9pm, then 4am and 10am on the 18th. 9pm is too soon after departing Vancouver so I guess they would go slow and then pass early on the 18th. This will mean a liesurely evening steaming to the Narrows.  http://www.dairiki.org/tides/monthly.php/sey/2021-09

A range of thoughts here:

-are we looking at a lack of communication between itinerary planning and the ad writers who are just copying the previous year's text?

-we need to reread the SeaDog posts made last year. I think the emphasis was not so much on the Ice Class of the hull as much as on Antarctic relevant bridge abilities, Antarctic environmental concerns and an ability to protect the passengers from the cold when help for an emergency is far away.

-the IMO has posted a summary at http://www.imo.org/en/MediaCentre/HotTopics/polar/Pages/default.aspx . It does not sound as tough as I had thought when I posted at Seabourn last month. Other than a realistic way to handle immersion suits for a senior clientele the new requirements might not be so hard to accomplish. However look at the sailor demonstrating a suit at 5:30 in the IMO video, can you see granny doing that? This is where the small expedition ships would more readily be able to cope.

-and to come full circle, even if the Code can be conformed with, the maps in the current ads clearly show that one would barely be able to see the most northerly Antarctic site, South Georgia Island, on the horizon. The occasional berg bit, seal and bird passing by doesn't make an Antarctic experience for me.

Bill

I was on the last trip of a ship being sold on for continued use.  One of the many tasks being done was to remove electronic/computer/software equipment which was licenced but not owned. That would include licenced navigation & communication equipment as well as administrative and entertainment equipment.  Corporate branded materials (china, linen, uniforms), shop stock, stores, bar stock and artwork would also be removed.

Bill