Oldlady chloe

I am not sure if you understand how cash tips work. If you remove auto tips and pay them cash, they do not get to keep the cash that you give them. The must turn the cash into the tip pool and they get their regular share of the tip pool. This means that if you cash tip them less than the auto tip amount, they get less instead of more cash in the end.

 

Now if you leave the auto tip on and then give them some extra money, they do get to keep all the extra money.

 

Hope this helps.

 

DON

How on earth would they enforce this? I would think cash tips would be pocketed regardless, especially since no one would know until after the cruise if you removed the auto gratuities. Right?

I suspect that most crew workers (at least the ones in the tipping pool) are kept busy to the point that any free time after their shifts are spent talking with family members (skyping or whatever means via computer that they can do)' date=' relaxing, sleeping. But not going on line to post on Cruise Critic or any other forum.

 

The website the OP has mentioned is known for being run by an ambulance chasing type of lawyer, only one devoted to suing cruise lines. As someone suggested, a website to either ignore or take with a grain of salt and just view for the sake of entertainment. There's another website that lists various "incidents" at sea (one of the cruises we were on got mentioned because some kid fell off the gangway into the water while we were docked in Ensenada -- the toddler did get saved, but the mother should have been more careful).

 

We started cruising before the auto-grats were instituted, and spent some time on the last day of those cruises stuffing tip envelopes with cash. The auto-grats made things easier on us as we left them in place, and then if the crew members gave excellent service (which is much of the time), we'll tip extra in cash on top of the auto-grats, and even fill out a "consummate host" card for these crew members.[/quote']

 

I just thought, in asking, that there might be someone who had some inside information from the staff level... I was not advocating this particular lawyer in any way. I began to sense there were issues with cruise tipping, so I went to google. His website comes up very early in the search. And while I have no idea what he does, or how ethical he is, it does appear that he speaks some truth as to the tipping. It is a more complex system than we are used to in the US, and it does appear the cruise line benefits in using the tips to help pay for wages, although I am not 100% sure of this. Researching further, I have found some forums that slant away from auto gratuities, this one seems to support them. I do see how it makes the cruise less stressful! I appreciate all of the information people have provided.

Having read the entire thread, I can provide some additional information, having spent 40 years at sea, mostly Ro/Pax, but with the initial 7 yrs working on UK flag passenger ships. My experience is limited to a couple of cruise lines, who I worked for, our son worked for and we cruised with until 2015 - P&O & Princess.

 

I will start by responding to some of the individual posts

- #6 Stated some crew never see tips. We have met many, many crew that keep returning to the same company. If those in the tip pool were being stiffed by the company, I can't see them returning to the same company. The composition of the tip pool is a closely guarded secret, even our son, as a senior Deck Officer, was not privy to that info. Many are not included, which I know includes - Deck dept, engineering dept, security, spa, shoppies, cruise staff. Singers/Dancers? I certainly don't believe cruise lines are witholding funds, but do question the % given to the Maitre'D, as opposed to the crew that provide the service.

 

- #7 Complained about low wages. Salaries/wages are supply & demand. When I started as 3rd Officer in 1978, my salary was the minimum required by UK shipping, as most officers wanted cruise ships. Cargo ships paid 10% more and tankers 30% more, however I still made more money than most 21 yr olds at the time and my benefits were extensive. Standards have reduced significantly, as our son received a N/American contract, receiving cash on board every month. No benefits or vacation were provided. He later received a UK contact with the same company receiving a significant increase and benefits. Therefore, if we have a complaint over wages, I suggest rather than being concerned about low wages, I suggest the concern should be inequality for the same job.

 

The service crews, while they receive comparatively low remuneration compared to N/American & EU standards, they are frequently very well off in their own countries. Hence the reason they keep returning.

 

- #11 - An excellent summation of MLC 2006 and impact on cruise ship staff, by a fellow mariner. MLC 2006 was ratified in 2013 when the required 30 countries ratified the convention & incorporated the standards into their Flag State regulations. At present I believe over 80 countries accounting for >90% of tonnage have ratified the agreement. Unfortunately, countries that have not ratified the convention may not have implemented the standards. Fortunately countries that have ratified, can impose the standards on ships that visit their ports. I do not believe the U.S. has ratified MLC 2006.

 

- #39 - Australia cruise fares include DSC - this has been our experience with cruises based from Australia

 

- #42 - Not sure I would agree that a 6 to 9 month contract is relatively short. Yes, many years ago we had 30 month foreign service contracts, but having completed one 9-month trip as a cadet, it was a long time away from home working/studying at least 12 yrs per day, every day (remember seafarers don't get weekends)

 

- #43 - Do seafarers get free room & board. In most cases the answer is yes - the spa employees on Princess being the only exception that I am aware of. However, most crew must maintain a residence ashore and also have additional costs keeping in touch with family & friends.

 

Personally, I have great difficulty with the cruise line's DSC, as I believe tipping is personal and is provided after the fact, recognising service above and beyond. However, that is no longer the custom on cruises, so if I wish to embark on a cruise, I put my personal thoughts aside and accept the DSC, unless the cruise has gratuities included.

 

The percentage for front line staff (DR waiters - fixed seating & Cabin Stewards) are based on the number of pax they look after. On our last Princess Cruise, our cabin steward had 4 more cabins than the steward in the next section. Consequently he received more from the DSC pool. As a pax, if you deleted or reduced the DSC your cabin steward's percentage dropped. On our last cruise they also mentioned that the DSC pool is now spread across the company's entire fleet and not by individual ship.

 

Provided you do not adjust the DSC, my understanding is that any additional cash provided to a crew member can be retained by that crew member. However, I have never seen it in writing and as previously mentioned the DSC is a closely guarded secret.

 

In response to the OP question, would I pre-pay. Personally - No, but again this is personal preference, as the crew get no benefit to pre-paying. However, the cruise line has your money for a longer period before disbursing to the crew.

Thank you so much!

OP, don’t be scared off. I don’t think anyone has been critical of you. Generally this topic just turn into name calling, which hasn’t happened yet.

 

I’ve never worked on a cruise ship so can’t speak to what the staff wants. I used to be a server though. We did a mandatory gratuity on large parties. If I could have done that on every table I would have. Yes, on some tables I would have made less but it would have been heavily outweighed by making more on tables that didn’t tip or tipped very low. I also would have taken a higher hourly wage with no tips, which sounds like how the service charge may be distributed on some lines. But relying on voluntary tipping for a majority of your income is a frustrating way to be paid.

 

I do think that most people who remove the gratuities to ‘tip in cash’ don’t tip or tip less than the auto gratuity. Not saying the OP would do that, but I would guess that the crew would prefer the auto gratuities so we always leave them in place.

 

 

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I agree with this 100%!

I want to address the way you worded your question because there is a HUGE misconception of "prepaying." By default there will be AUTO-gratutities, unless the cruiser asks for them to be removed. The auto-gratuities can be pre-paid but this is for the cruisers budgeting style only (otherwise is billed at the end of the cruise) and either choice is not better or worse for tipping the crew.

 

If the question is "do the staff prefer auto or cash tips?"... I don't have insight on this except to assume that they prefer which ever is more $$ :)

I am learning all the differences! When I said prepaying, I meant the auto gratuity option in general.

Geez! My first posted forum question as a first time cruiser and all the hate. My TA asked me how I wanted to handle gratuities. I thought they were included, I was wrong, so told her I would let her know. Researching online I went down a rabbit hole, so thought I would ask a simple question whether anyone had asked the staff THEIR preference. Lots of people auto tip, lots of people don’t tip, and lots of people are in between. I didn’t think asking the question was out of line? I guess put me up there with the lanyard question guy!

One more post and then I'm done with this thread, before it degenerates as all "tipping" threads do.

 

Walker presents no evidence that the cruise lines retain the DSC.

 

No, the DSC money is not distributed directly to the crew, it goes into an account for the ship, and payroll draws on this account to pay the crew. Crew are unhappy with some of the changes to the DSC pool, like including back of house workers in the pool that weren't there before, and withholding specified amounts for crew welfare (parties, excursions).

 

The crew are also complaining because they are getting reduced wages due to so many passengers reducing or removing the DSC, yet the crew think the passengers are still paying it (hence the claims of the company holding back), and the claim that wages are reduced due to complaints is also due to passengers reducing/removing DSC. I have yet to see any documentation, from a crew member or from Walker that cruise lines are withholding DSC from crew.

 

I used to work for NCL, so I know how shipboard compensation and shipboard employment contracts are handled.

Thank You! I think we all just want to do the right thing by the workers who serve us. Reading the assorted forums, the one thing missing was the perspective of the employee. That was the purpose of my question.

I suppose we could do the math. Anyone know the crew numbers and how many participate in the tip pool?

I read somewhere on cc that on Anthem of the Seas, an average of 400 people opt out of tipping through RC

Chengkp75 used to work on cruise ships and while he didn't work in a department that used tips he was certainly aware of how things worked since he attended meetings where such things were discussed. Yes, there are a lot of people who think passengers are being duped, but look at it this way- the crew knows exactly how much passengers are paying in tips. Do you really think they would tolerate not receiving those tips from the company in one form or another?

Actually, I think it could be possible (maybe not likely) that the tips are not being disbursed. There is such a power imbalance between ceos and poor third world workers who have families to support.

Tipping on cruises is such a controversial topic. It comes up over and over ad nauseum on forums. I think it is because people don’t feel good about the system. Something about it seems fishy.

This lawyer write lots of articles on the subject. I have no idea as to his reputation and am not promoting him. It is the comment section comments that have me questioning what the right thing to do is...

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2015/05/articles/worst-cruise-line-in-the-world/loyal-to-royal-expect-to-pay-higher-gratuities-and-the-moneys-not-for-the-crew/

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2018/03/articles/worst-cruise-line-in-the-world/ncl-raises-gratuities-again-the-greedy-gets-greedier/

Thank you everyone for your input! Very good information as to how the tips are dispursed. I would just love to hear from actual staff, wouldn’t you? How we are told things work may be different from actual practice. The comments in the article seemed authentic in their tone and basically said we as cruisers were being duped.

John Walker is a lawyer who specializes in suing cruise lines. In other words, he makes most other lawyers look like outstanding citizens.

 

DON

I was more focused on the comment section where multiple people stated they worked on the cruise ships and never saw the tips

I have never seen posts by cruise employees saying that. Was this on CC?

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2017/04/articles/crew-member-rights-1/usa-today-takes-a-look-at-cruise-ship-gratuities/

Here’s one example. Read the comments after the article. I was just curious if anyone had ever asked a crew member what they thought about it...

I have read many forums and blogs on cruise gratuities. I understand the pros/cons and why people do what they do. I am not looking to stiff the workers. My question is: what would the cruise staff prefer we do? Prepay or cash? I am concerned by posts by proclaimed cruise employees that say the cruise lines keep the gratuities and that they don’t actually change the wages of the staff. Does anyone have insight about this?