happysailor1001

31 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Interesting, since the P&I clubs are mutual insurance, meaning they only insure the members' ships.  I have not heard of this, but it could be a tactic short of asking the company to leave the Club due to high risk.  P&I premiums are based on the historical cost of claims by the member shipping companies.

Sorry this is a fact.  You may not have experienced this, but this is a fact.  I am not working for NCL, but the Captain on the Norwegian Dream who was involved in the incident in the English Channel many years ago was let go after pressure from the P&I Club.  The actual premium a company is paying to a P&Club is 2-fold.  One is the overall cost for the P&I Club based on their members claims.  If they have a lot of claims, everyone's premium will go up.  The other factor which determines the premium or discount for the individual company is also based how well the company is doing.  For a Cruise Line this covers a wide area.  One example is how many lawsuits a Cruise Line have against them from passengers who may have claimed the company to be negligent, like a slip and fall incident on board. You were correct about the shaft on the Epic.  Crew on the Epic has mentioned on social media that one of the shafts was locked on the way back to Florida.    

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Yep, and in this case, since it was found that the Captain did not follow the company's ISM procedures for bridge resource management and planning to safely complete the docking evolution, he was disciplined and likely fired.  Unless the same thing is found in this instance, then he wouldn't be disciplined as other posters have said.

This is a little bit of a grey area.  As an example the Captain may have followed all procedures in the SMS, checks completed etc.  The Captain may still have the support from the leadership in the office.  The challenge is when damages or losses are starting to go above 1 million dollars and the company wish to submit a claim to the P&I Club, the P&I Club may then ask for discipline.  The P&I Club may tell the company that they will accept claim, but the shipping company must terminate the Captain due to their loss in confidence in the Captain.  Over the years Captains have lost their job due to pressure from the P&I Club or their threat to withdraw the protection and indemnity insurance a company have for all of their ships. 

58 minutes ago, mking8288 said:

It's still plotted on Marinetraffic, looked like ship planned slowing down and then did some sort of maneuvering, like an inverted J turn ... maybe testing the bow & stern thrusters. As tugs were assisting with the final docking at the pier. That spot is like 10 nm off the barrier island/Coca Beach ... mariners familiar with the area would know better if they can access charts & tidal info, could it that shallow ? I think not for them to run into sandbars ... Bermuda with the coral reef is different.

 

Meanwhile, anyone seeing work crew and or divers by the Epic this morning doing work or inspections ?  Safe journey & travel to those heading home and embarking later.

If the Epic had not received the final clearance to enter port, they would have to slow down or stop until this was cleared.  If a ship has mechanical problems the Class will have to issue a separate certificate pertaining to the situation on board.  This certificate will have to be submitted to the Captain of the Port (USCG).  Once reviewed he/she will give the final clearance for the ship to enter port.  Did not look like the Epic had to wait to long to before starting the transit inbound.

12 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

If there is nothing wrong with either the steering or the actual propulsion system, as opposed to the diesel generators, which is what has been stated in the past, then no, the USCG will not require a tug escort, as the ship will have its original redundancy in propulsion and steering, and nothing affects the navigation of the vessel.  Even with only 4 diesels, the ship has more than sufficient power for all harbor evolutions.

Not my experience with the Coast Guard.  I guess the webcam in Port Canaveral will be showing the Epic arriving this afternoon.  

4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 

With all due respects, I don't know what you mean by a "challenge".  Yes, documentation is required, but from personal experience, I know that CBP very readily gives out PVSA waivers (and it is the PVSA, not the Jones Act) for missed ports due to mechanical difficulties.  The biggest is probably the Norwegian Star back in 2004, when she lost one azipod, and could not make it to Fanning Island, the closest foreign port to the Hawaiian Islands, so she continued to sail a strictly Hawaiian Island itinerary for 2-3 months, carrying a couple of thousand passengers each week, until a drydock berth could be arranged.

 

With all due respect, were you on the bridge of the Epic?  Whether the Captain or Staff Captain would have taken the conn for the docking is not a given.  It depends on the Captain, the pilot, the familiarity between the two, and the local harbor regulations.  While most NCL Captains will take control of the helm, telegraph, and thrusters on the bridge wing for docking, it is quite common for the pilot to still have the conn, and be directing the Captain on how to maneuver the ship, particularly when tugs are involved, as they were here.  I don't know the tidal currents in San Juan harbor, but there was some unusual condition that necessitated the actual use of the tugs, rather than the more common "just standing by" that most cruise ships use, since they don't like the tugs dirty, black tires rubbing on their pristine white hull.  I'm home from my ship now, so I will try to see all the video of the incident, to see if your statement of the incorrect turn into the berth is correct or not.

I am sorry, I have all respect for every who has served and your background in the maritime industry .  I do have some background from this business myself.  In general no pilot ever actually docks a cruise ship.  The only place where you have this is in New York where you have the option to board a docking pilot just before you reach the berth.  Sometimes this docking pilot handles the control and dock the ship, sometimes he takes the ship towards the berth and the Captain/Staff Captain may take over the Con the last 10-50 meters before the ship reach the required position for docking.  In San Juan the pilot never actually docks the ship or handles the controls.  The handover is done shortly after passing the Coast Guard Station inbound for the berth.      

27 minutes ago, mking8288 said:

 

Indeed, if this is still NCL's "monkey" plan C.2a for this evening.  Kudo & thank you for posting and trying to help the critics informed, updated in the middle of the chaos (thankfully, no medevac got into the way ...)   

 

Get ready for lights, camera, videos and action on the pier later on - as some/most of you know, this is all over the news media circus, around the world as I heard from "my" oversea folks.  

 

I am wondering if NCL decide that they will offer complimentary, standby housing overnight for those arriving today, unaware & showing up with nowhere & no place to go/stay (i.e. hotels nearby all booked/sold out, etc.) instead of running cruise terminal cot housing inside the building - letting those who can, wish or just wanted to get off the ship this afternoon/evening - free up those cabins, do a quick turnaround cleaning & then on a standby, first come - first served basis, a cabin for those on the shorterned 5 days, to be on the ship by late evening ?? - a floating hotel on the pier for the next 2 days, until they finished the repairs, inspected & cleared to sail, etc. 

 

All these can and should be handled differently & better, and communicated in a more coherent fashion, which NCL isn't - as seen by us - as coming up far short and inadequate.  

As per today's schedule in Port Canaveral there is a Carnival ship due to sail from Port Canaveral around 4pm, followed by a second ship.  The Epic has probably been given a time slot to arrive and maybe why you have seen a higher speed earlier today.  If they arrive around 3PM they will probably be told to wait until last cruise ship has departed.  Coast Guard will probably require the Epic to have at least 2 tug boats as escort on the way to the berth. 

17 minutes ago, mking8288 said:

 

No, NCL will get a waiver for this due to unforeseen circumstances - see the comments on PVSA by *cheng* (one of our respected, "resident" expert on these matters - post #83) - in reply to the question that I set up, anticipating that this could come up ...  

 

 * * * Latest AIS "live" tracking data * * * 

Last night, 24 hours ago, we tracked the Epic sailing out of San Juan & managed to get up to almost 18 knots - ETA to making a stop at Freeport was given as 8 p.m. (maybe 10 p.m.) AST/local time.  Well, Epic's cruise speed has been below 13 knots all day and currently at 13.1 - passing way north of Nassau, nowhere near GSC and still (very roughly) 100+ nm east of Freeport as tracked by MarineTraffic or 8+ hours in getting there, if they are still going to make a quick stop ... closer to daybreak.  

 

Distance (additional) to PC in Florida is about 150 nm, and at 13 knots - 12 more hours at sea, for a Saturday evening arrival. 

With all due respect to *cheng*.  CBP does not give out Administrative Waivers without a challenge.  NCL may have suffered a mechanical failure, but this was not an "Act of God" .  Not every cruise line have had 100% success in arguing similar cases in the past.  With all due respect to *cheng* at least 2 videos from the incident in San Juan clearly shows the Epic Bridge team failed to line up the the ship correctly for making the port turn into the basin where pier is.  The Captain or Staff Captain would have taken the Con from the pilot a few minutes after passing the Coast Guard Station in San Juan.  The person at the control would have to make a decision on how wide of a turn to make towards the pier.  AIS providers showed Easterly Wind around 20 knots when the Epic docked, which would have been on the Starboard beam of the Epic as she turned to the north.  Where the cruise ships dock in San Juan there are minimal currents if any.

24 minutes ago, jwkde said:

Would they make exceptions for ships with 'issues' trying to limp home?

I do not think CBP will make any exceptions, they are bound by the regulations they enforce.  The fine is per passenger, additional fines may be imposed for the ship itself.  I know 9 years ago the fine for violation of the Jones Act was $425, fee was passed onto to me by the cruise line.  I had to get off the ship after sailing from Miami the day before.  

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Getting an "engine" (if you mean a diesel) would be far easier in Miami or Port Canaveral than in Freeport, where nearly everything a ship needs for a drydock period needs to be brought in at the time.  There are several marine diesel engine repair companies in Florida, licensed by the engine manufacturers, and they carry stocks of parts.  If you think there is a problem with one of the propellers (frequently called an "engine" on CC), then it might require a trip to Freeport, but Miami Divers are very competent to do most common repair work in the water.

Lots of speculations about Freeport.  Simple reason for this, the ship must declare a foreign port otherwise they risk paying $400 + fee to CBP due to violation of Jones Act.  All foreign cruise ships sailing out from US ports are sailing something called Closed Loop Cruise.  The cruise must start and end in the same US Port.  Puerto Rico is a US Territory, not considered a foreign port.  The ship would have emailed the full passenger and crew manifest to the ship's agent in Freeport.  He in turn will go to the custom office, get all paper work stamped, fees paid (yes, they will have to pay current port tax for all paying passengers onboard the ship).  You will must likely see a small boat or tug meeting the ship outside Freeport, all the paperwork will be handed to the Chief Purser so they can clear the ship on arrival Port Canaveral.