WK-Orlando

Mark, The problem on Epic is the toilet is NOT behind a heavy door. There is a semi-trans glass shower door that gives privacy but no real isolation. Picture being asleep and someone flushes one of those toilets about 12 feet from your ear in the dead of night... Actually the opening and closing of that shower door itself is very noisy as they are old and likely have not had the hanging rollers lubed since the ship was built. Door was almost worse noise than the flush itself... Door open, it focuses the noise toward the rest of the cabin and closing it just makes even more noise... I am sure after a week or two someone might get used to it but I doubt it. When my wife saw the layout, I think she almost made me leave the ship. :-) As I originally said, no way in %$@ a woman had a say in the layout.

I actually take a Bose headset along as a noise cancelling solution for a different sound source... :-) So less a problem for me than my spouse but since I am the one that has to get up at 3am EVERY night... Lets say I had a bit of kissing up to do in the morning and we were def sleeping in because of it. We have sailed NCL on other ships years ago and stopped because of the food and the rather lame entertainment back then. 10+ years ago. So this was an experiment for us. Actually our fourth cruise of the year. I occasionally take out corporate groups in the 100-150 head range so I wanted to see how they are doing these days since they have started sailing more Orlando dates. Afraid they are not likely to get that business from me. The shorter trips come packaged with the drinks and is not optional and after I saw the very poor venue waiter counts and long waits for drinks (low staff levels) along with the poor food in the main dinning areas (buffet was good but groups want to eat in the large dinning rooms), do not feel like risking a group getting ticked off with me taking them there. People will put up with most anything as long as you feed them ok with out up-charging and don't make it too hard to get a drink. NCL seems to have forgotten this rather basic rule.

My wife and I are elite on several lines/travel programs and decided to sail Epic over xmas this year to give NCL another try after not sailing them for a few years. I have always thought Epic was the ugliest cruise ship I had ever seen and being an avid business reader, knew a bit about the former NCL CEO that had a had in screwing the ship up and running the costs through the roof. That said, curiosity and opportunity won out and we took the trip to see what it looked like on the inside.

Before you start to read, I am going to start out about the ship which is not flattering. Read the whole thing though as the rest is mostly positive...

First thing that came to mind is that I am sure no women were involved in the design. It is very cramped feeling (much worse than any ship I have ever been on) and the decor is 'blah' to say the least. Biggest tip off is the lack of an isolated bathroom in the cabins. Toilet and shower are on opposite sides of cabin door behind glass shower doors that do not really seal. Who in their right mind would put a ships vacuum toilet in the same room with the bed. Every time someone needs to use it at night, the partner is awakened like a bomb went off in the cabin. If you and your spouse are not on identical 'cycles' this is a real sleep killer. Again, no way in hell a female designer would ever sign off on this little 'feature'. Don't get me started on if one person is having a bit of a blow out and the smell gets thick... :eek: Right there is a major reason to stay away if you and partner are not very sound sleepers. Had to start waking my wife when I got up to pee so the toilet would not give her a heart attack when flushed.

All of the spaces on the ship feel much tighter than on other ships, even other NCL ships we have been on. My understanding is that is a product of the former leadership trying to stuff Oasis competitive options into a smaller box. It did not work very well. If you are the least claustrophobic, stay off this ship and go with something else. Even other NCL ships. The exact opposite of a RCL, Princess or other ships in terms of feel. I understand how it got this way but between the very squeezed hallways, tight common areas, very confusing layout (even for experience cruisers) no atrium to speak of.... you get the idea.

OK, enough about the ship The designers screwed up enough said...

Now for some serious positives.

First, the shows. Burn the Floor is one of the best shows I have ever seen afloat. Easily on par with the better Oasis class shows (no not Cats.. echh...) The show employs REAL dancers and not the shuffle and pose 'dancers' that make up most of the casts. These folks must burn more callories in a show than most dance teams burn in a week.

The second main show is Queen of the Desert. Very interesting show in that it was the most social commentary oriented show I have ever seen afloat. Very dark for most of the show and really not for kids too young to understand. A show I would have liked to see ashore but for a vacation cruise, just too dark... Performers were very good though. Again much better than on most ships/lines.

Last major show is a dinner theatre with eastern european circus performers that were very good. (The food is the show was fixed menu 'Mariott' fare so eat first in the buffet... disapointing considering the $50 per person cost to get in...) The performers were very good but you do get an idea of what steriod abuse in eastern europe might look like 15 years later... Very good show for the kids. Performers make rounds before the show in full costume (very interesting) so make sure you bring a good lower light camera. It is a long event so make sure you visit the WC first. Not easy to get up and out in the middle of the show as the venue is small and the preformers move through the seats. Oh, and the PREMIUM seats are worth the extra cost!

Other entertainment is rather good as well. Cruise staff did a good job with games and events. They were fairly active and always had something going. Don't waste your time on the commedians. There were four on our trip and only one was moderately funny. The rest need to head back to rehab... Guess this can vary cruise to cruise but ours were just plain sad. You can tell they have no materials when they spend half the set asking audience where they are from...

Regarding the food:

NCL is really big on breaking the dinning out into many venues. Some good and some not. The free dining rooms tend to have the same food and the menu is very small. Food is maybe ok but definately not up to average for the various cruise lines. Mine was usually cold and had been sitting around for while... Obvious they do not want the free competing with the pay venues.

The food in the pay venues varied greatly. The Brazilian was by far the best value along with the Japaneese Tepi (sushi was good as well but again, most lines do not charge you extra for sushi... free in the buffet). Great food! The French and the 'Steakhouse' were simply not worth the money. Nothing special food for more than you would have paid for ashore at a place like Outback. I expect to pay extra for a Fillet but to charge me for simple sides that are free at the other venues on a cruise is overly cheap... Take a dining package because the alcarte prices are nuts and the even charge for sides like fries... (be warned, one person takes a drink package, cabin mates must take as well) Buffet was average and well stocked. After one sit in the 'free' dining room, we moved to buffet as our main choice. Took a three meal dinning package but ate in all four of the main pay spots to try them out. In the future, will stick with Tepi, Brazilian and the buffet on NCL.

All in all, a good cruise that would have been better if not the Epic. Got home overly tired because of the lousy cabin design and feeling nickled and dimed worse than usual. On the upside, the best ship entertainment we have had in years. I would definately go NCL again in the future but will stay away from Epic and go to the other ships so I can sleep without late night toilet bombs going off in my ears.

btw, I am not a drinker so this did not impact me much but for those that are, think carefully on NCL. They have open drink packages (drinks were VERY expensive without it) but I have never seen so few waiters in the venues. You want a drink, you are going to have to fight your way to a bar and get it yourself. Restaurant drink service was also rather slow after the first drink, just stopped coming. Watched other guests get a bit bent about that. Guess this helps the margins.

Happy sailing to everyone!

Hi,

We just got off the Freedom today on her last med cruise of the season. Have to say we were in shock and not sure if this was just an isolated experience or others had the same take on the ship.

The ship seems to be in really desperate need of repairs. Screwed up elevators, broken chairs, not a clean sheet, napkin or table cloth in sight. We have sailed RCL for years and never experienced this before.

First item was our cabin. Totally gross. The bathroom wall looked like someone gargled and spit up on it and the toilet seat had crusted gunk on it we had to scrape off. Garbage behind the side table and under the bed. drawers so dirty we lined them with towels before putting out stuff away. Fridge broken, tv flakey... what the ??? like I said, never before have we seen the like.

Our steward was a rather large Jamaican woman that was sort of friendly but when we complained about the filth, made us very uncomfortable. on top of that, she and the floor supervisor ( the only other islander we saw working on our floor) seemed very chummy, spent a lot of time bs ing in the hall and snarking at the southeast Asians cleaning the other cabins. Was not comfortable to complain as the supervisor appeared to be her bud... I have heard of these situations on the ships and this one was really blatant. Took to just cleaning it up ourselves and getting as little service from her as we could manage as I did not want to risk retaliation on our belongings while ashore. Obvious there is a major breakdown of management here. Will not go into the stained sheets and gross furniture.

Would like to say this was isolated but the first night we go to the main dinning, took two tries to get clean glasses (as in no lipstick stains) the table cloth was stained (we were first to sit there that night), and the cutlery was dirty. Not to mention the napkins all stained up. At this point we wondered what the ??? again, never had this kind of experience on an RCL ship. Was the laundry broken down? After that and the pay steak I got that could not be cut, we dropped the main dinning room and stuck to the buffet for the rest of the trip. Food there was fine.

Seemed like a number of the elevators were having issues from buttons that simply did not work to one having a breakdown with myself and a few others in it. Lasted only a couple of minutes and we managed to get out. Chair arms laying on the floor of the theatre along with bottoms of chairs that seem to have fallen off and been left were they dropped.

There was more but my point is HELP! this is not the RCL we are used too and hope this gets back to management. I plan to call in when we get stateside but thought this would be a way to get someone's attention as the surveys are not really read I think. Have they just gotten too many ships or is this a case of the company needing to board and kick as5. I suspect our cabin was more an issue of a steward that did not have much interest in doing the job and a supervisor that was her bud. The other stewards were really hustling when we walked by... just our good luck I guess. If not for the blatant buddy buddy with the manager, we would have complained.

As for the rest... we were on Freedom for the first ride of the med season and strangely enough, the last as well. Did not plan it that way but that was how our dates worked out. The difference was startling. First ride was much better with the ship clean and in good shape. End of the season beaten up and looking ready for the refurb yard.

Welcome any contact from RCL to discuss. We like the line and hit our 140 days this week. That said, they really need to put a team on that ship and look it over.

Most of the lines are good about the distilled water but, as a backup, I just repurpose a small water bottle, label it distilled, and put it in my carry on with the CPAP. Just enough for a night or two. By then, you will have it. The ships actually us a lot of distilled water in various departments so never been in a situation that it was not aboard.

Years ago, they did not get usual supplies and they brought it to me from the medical center supplies...

Lately NCL has not exactly been the winner on price and after the last couple a yawn cruises, my family was not exactly making them a priority in our searches. After this little stunt, we are just going to drop them altogether. Def a $$$ issue with them. I do not drink alcohol or much soda, so the canned tea drinks (go Arizona!) I carry on are the only thing I have outside of water which I just take in the buffet. If this is enough money for them to play this game, will take my money elsewhere.

If everyone remembers the interview that their CEO did awhile back on the news (long story) he was very clear that the bar was a major revenue source and basically let it be known that non-power drinkers were not very desirable customers.

Think the other lines are going to watch the fall out on this to see if they will copy it. If you are sailing NCL anytime outside of the cancellation penalty window and can move to another line, DO IT, as a community service to all cruisers. Mass cancellations are the only message these companies understand. If enough people drop them, all of the lines will think twice about this BS. If the real reason is the concern over the employees slinging overly heavy bags full of bottled water (like these companies care about staff...), make the price of water on the ship reasonable. I would pay more onboard just to not have to mess with packing it but I will not pay 'bar' prices for water on a cruise. Should be able to pre-order a case of it for no more than double the supermarket price.

Lately NCL has not exactly been the winner on price and after the last couple a yawn cruises, my family was not exactly making them a priority in our searches. After this little stunt, we are just going to drop them altogether. Def a $$$ issue with them. I do not drink alcohol or much soda, so the canned tea drinks I carry on are the only thing I have outside of water which I just take in the buffet. If this is enough money for them to play this game, will take my money elsewhere.

If everyone remembers the interview that their CEO did awhile back on the news (long story) he was very clear that the bar was a major revenue source and basically let it be known that non-power drinkers were not very desirable customers.

Most people are not aware that most cruise ships report all onboard purchases or accounts that run up at least $600 or so in purchases of possible duty items. What they are not aware of is that some of the cruiseline owned shore shops (say anything with a gem type and the word international in the name) are likely doing the same. This is so customs can get a leg up on collecting duty. Problem with this, aside from ruffling my Libertarian ideals regarding privacy, is that the sales people tell you everything is duty free when it is not. On top of that, they often botch the reports and tell customs you bought something subject to duty when it is not.

My wife and I are actually kind of boring people in that we do report our purchases to customs if we go over allowance which is very rare. We are also a bit more educated than most on what is subject to duty and what is not. Just today we got off of Oasis of the Seas after purchasing a jewelry item aboard. The item was US sourced merchandise which the sales people seemed completely ignorant about. They failed to properly stamp the documents and then the ship reported our purchase to US customs for duty. We spent almost two hours stuck in customs inspection watching families miss flights and other bs because of this practice of customs extorting these lists from the ships under very dubious interpretations of laws not intended for the purpose. What's worse is that the cruise line does not give an accurate description of the purchase to customs leaving the passengers to negotiate confusing rules without proper information. In our case, we were provided incorrectly filled out documents from the ship jewelry store and the ship reported the items as subject to duty to Customs. Fortunately for us, there was a customs agent that recognized the brand when we pointed out it was US sourced and she directed the inspector to pass us without charge. If she had not been there, we would have been charged duty and maybe fined.

Strongly suggest avoiding purchases of duty items from the ships or any of the 'recommended' shops until they clean this up. First I feel the reporting to customs is a violation of my privacy especially for things not even bought on the ship. Second, if they are going to cave and report, GET IT RIGHT so passengers do not go through long delays and missed flights. Lastly, stop lying to passengers many of whom do not have experience with customs rules by telling them that it is all 'duty free'. It most certainly is not going to be unless someone has already paid the duty such as purchasing items that came from the US in the first place or the total of your purchases is under allowance. (We stick to those brands) The duties kill the price advantage for most expensive items and the fines for screwing up can easily exceed the price of your cruise. Items may also come from countries currently under US government punitive measures and are subject to a 100% duty. The stores are certainly not going to tell you that in the ports and I would hope the ship would not be selling such items but after today, not so sure.

Best way to make the point is just shop in places that do not make the cruiseline any money. There are reputable shops in most ports that do not report sales to the cruiseline. (NOT telling you to cheat on custom declarations, but at least you do not get held up for nothing) If enough people take this path, they will clean this up. Should be VERY easy for them to track duty requirements for merchandise, disclose them at time of sale and correctly report duty totals correctly. They are just TOO LAZY and GREEDY to do the right thing. Just way to easy for them to say it is the passengers problem and charge you a hour of internet time while you try to figure it out...

Lastly, and this is slightly off topic, if you are going to take expensive stuff out on the ships, take pictures of everything that might trigger a duty argument, print them out with a date and sign them with a notary. My bank does this for free. This way, when customs wants to demand proof you did not buy it while on your vacation, you can politely tell them to bug off and have the documents to protect you. Has not happened to us yet, but I have encountered people that have been hassled for items they have owned for years and even laptops, ipads, etc. Most passengers would never even consider taking receipts for all of the wife bling onto the ship if they even have receipts...

I will end this by saying most of the customs people I have met over the years are ok, polite and not overtly nasty even though they deal with a lot of really s%$ty people every day. That said, have encountered a few that make the case for changing the rules that govern firing federal employees. Protect yourself with a little preventative paperwork and save the stress. Do not be afraid to ask for a supervisor as most of these agents are men and like me, do not know jack about jewelry brands or where they are made.

Safe Sailing!