PhilBenz

1 hour ago, hamrag said:

So what are you all going to whinge about now?!

Typical troll bait.

OK, I'll bite. It's not about whinging. It's about getting NCL to step up and do what's right. They took their own sweet time doing it, but they finally caved. It doesn't matter that it probably wasn't our actions but the closing of Asian ports that made them cancel the 17 feb and 27 Feb sailings. What matters is that they cancelled them, and offered full refunds to passengers.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there are some COVID-19 coronavirus cases amongst the crew. They'll doubtless swap out all the crew and wash their hands of the whole thing, and leave Asia to go cruising somewhere else until the smoke thins. I'm reminded of Pete Seeger's "Song of the Punch Press Operator":

Quote

If your hand should slip, why the boss don't shout
He just buys new fingers as he throws you out.

Employees who risk being carriers of the virus will be replaced by fresh meat.

It's a sorry state of affairs, but should serve to remind future passengers that NCL, like most (if not all) cruise lines is a huge corporation interested only in the bottom line. Paying lip service to passengers' health and well-being is part of the dance. Nobody should be surprised at this. It's the way things work in the modern world. Book more cruises, as you like, but remain vigilant to protect your own interests, without the illusion that companies like NCL have anything but their own fiduciary interests at heart.

14 minutes ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

The worst part is that multiple people on this voyage called NCL for clarification on "reasonable," and the call center's explanation was "as long as you're changing flights from economy to economy, we'll cover it."

Actually, that could be a good sign. Make your request in good faith and quote the above, clearly. Perhaps NCL will surprise us and do the right thing.

Sadly, you are entirely at the mercy of NCL's estimation of your "reasonable" expenses, since there is no yardstick for the word "reasonable". But don't forget, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Complain until you are blue in the face, and take all you can get. Don't hesitate to contact press outlets if their offer is distinctly underwhelming.

This said, only do all that if you have lots of time on your hands. You might just have to accept the loss.

I bet that the Jade, currently in Port Klang, Malaysia, is busily scrubbing the whole ship down and rotating crew. They might even change their port of embarkation. I'm sure they are eager to put the controversy of the 17 Feb sailing behind them.

Will they cancel the 27 Feb sailing? Unlikely.

My heart goes out to all those booked on the 27 Feb sailing of the Norwegian Jade. My wife and I were booked on the 17 Feb sailing, and along with other forum members I began a social media and press campaign to get NCL to cancel and refund our cruise.

Although I wrote directly to several NCL addresses (including kbyrd@ncl.com, Astuart@ncl.com, hsommer@ncl.com, sdeaton@nclcorp.com, PublicRelations@ncl.com, jleung@nclcorp.com, jrose@ncl.com), the few who answered me were not helpful, and I suspect the bad press they got also had little effect on their decision.

It was only after the Jade was barred from entering ports in Vietnam (and perhaps dissuaded from further stops in Thailand) that NCL finally threw in the towel, cancelling the 17 Feb sailing.

So, will they also cancel the 27 Feb sailing? Given their past bahavior, I bet they won't cancel... unless the planned ports on that sailing also refuse to accept them.

I mean, look at it from the point of view of ports between Singapore and Dubai: here is a ship that has been all over Southeast Asia in recent weeks, that most recently docked in Singapore where there are also a number of local transmission cases of COVID-19 coronavirus, and now plans to carry passengers and a floating petri dish into their own waters. If you were in charge of some of those ports of call, what would you decide?

NCL is probably going to spend the next 10 days giving the Jade a clean bill of health - sterilizing the entire ship, switching out crewmembers and getting a note from their mommy saying that they've been good little boys and girls. Unless the COVID-19 coronavirus pandemic continues to spread and cause enough alarm to prevent sailing out of Singapore at all, I feel fairly confident in the belief that they will maintain the 27 Feb sailing as is. Business as usual.

Should you cancel? Statistically speaking, you probably are at little risk from the virus, even though it might be hard to relax knowing everything that's been going on. NCL could change their port of departure from Singapore to somewhere with less contact to the pandemic than Singapore, like Port Klang, Malaysia, where the ship is now. IMHO, that is the most likely scenario. Only you can decide what you want to do.

If you need help waging a press campaign, I can help put you in touch with Ron Hurtibise at the Miami Sun Sentinel. He wrote a nice article about the situation, though it only came together after NCL finally caved. Here it is, if you're interested:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-coronavirus-spawns-dilemma-for-planned-asia-cruisers-20200213-oh4medemiva2hjsn74homcr4vq-story.html

Good luck!

Reach out to journalists and spread the news! Especially Miami-based papers, in NCL's backyard.

Wait, I don't understand. How can you hope to travel to any foreign country without a passport? Seems like a must-have item to me. Guests who are just boarding for the day to attend a wedding are a different story. If NCL is springing a last-minute regulation like that without prior notice, that's another strike against them, IMHO.

Thanks again to everyone here for supporting our struggle against irresponsible NCL decisions regarding the 17 Feb sailing. I hope those on the 27 Feb sailing get a similar offer.

FWIW, the Miami Sun-Sentinel posted this article after I spoke to a journalist there.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-coronavirus-spawns-dilemma-for-planned-asia-cruisers-20200213-oh4medemiva2hjsn74homcr4vq-story.html

Sadly, I can't read it because their websites detects my location in France. Perhaps someone could check if they got the story right.

Yeah, we are very, very iffy about ever sailing with NCL again. Maybe it's time to upgrade ourselves and graduate to a serious cruise line, even if it's more expensive.

We are so relieved that the 17 Feb sailing has been cancelled. Sure, it'll be strange staying home for the holidays. Maybe we'll drive to Portugal or the Czech republic instead. The world is our oyster!

1 minute ago, MoniMommy said:

They don't even pretend to be interested in their customers. They make it clear this  changes is only  because no ports will allow them to dock once they leave Singapore. I don't know the price of airfare to Singapore, but I imagine changing a flight form Honk Kong to Singapore is more than 300 especially when done at the least minute. They only took this action out of necessity not out of concern for customers or crew. 

Perhaps. But I have 3,293 reasons to be happy that NCL finally stepped up and offered full refunds.

We were already able to get refunded for our airfaire through Finnair. Still waiting on final confirmation, but the magic eight-ball says it's good to go.

I'll have to look elsewhere on this forum to find out what cruise lines are head and shoulders above NCL. I recall past cruises, I think with MSC, that had great entertainment (comedians, music groups, etc). Which forum should I check out?

Yeah! I just got confirmation from Cruisedirect. Full refund +25% future cruise credit. The ones who suffered are those on the current sailing of the Jade. Brave folks, travelling to Asia on a cruise at this time.

Thanks to everyone on this forum. Even the trolls remained relatively polite. A refreshing change from some other forums that will remain nameless. <g>

So now, I'll have to look into planning our next cruise. With NCL? Mmmmmaybe not. Might be time to graduate to a more professional cruise line.

14 minutes ago, ppcox said:

Fellow Brits please see advice from simon Calder 

https://mobile.twitter.com/SimonCalder/status/1227589671024254976

Thanks for pointing this out, PPCox! Brits can potentially use this legislation to get a full refund.

I doubt we have anything like this here in France, but I'll start looking.

29 minutes ago, hamrag said:

Why do you describe their response as 'unhelpful and irresponsible'? It seems to me to be both helpful and responsible....the opportunity to purchase appropriate insurance for all is readily available. If anyone chooses not to avail themselves, then....

The vast majority of so-called "travel insurance" policies do not cover the current COVID-19 pandemic. They cover you for things that happen to *you* prior to your trip (hospitalisation, etc) not "force majeur" situations.

Who in their right minds would travel to Singapore right now and embark on an NCL Jade petri dish while waiting to see if they come in contact with the coronavirus pandemic?

These posts slamming those who didn't "purchase appropriate insurance" are disingenuous and rude. But if that's how you roll, by all means, have a good laugh at the unwashed masses.

NCL's latest response to my persistent emails:

Quote

Dear Philip,

Thank you for the email.  We understand your concerns and strive to assist our guests whenever possible.  It is because of unexpected situations that we strongly recommend that guests obtain travel protection insurance. As a convenience to our guests, we offer various travel protection plans at time of booking, as well as during several follow up communications. Unfortunately it appears you elected not to purchase travel insurance.  

Furthermore, Norwegian Cruise Line has a cancellation policy which is communicated to our guests at time of booking and can be found on our website here: https://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/Guest_Ticket_Contract_04-2017_2.pdf. This is a policy that our company strictly adheres too. 

We apologize for the frustration you are experiencing, regrettably we are unable to provide you with the resolution you seek.  All guests who opt to cancel are advised to contact their travel insurance carrier.

We thank you for your time concerning this matter and the opportunity to respond.

Needless to say, this is unhelpful and irresponsible. I'll keep you posted if I get replies from any of the news services I've contacted.

5 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

Hasn't the UK put into effect a travel advisory to China?  If they did, wouldn't that be a reason to cancel for your insurance to give you your money back?

If we're still talking about the Norwegian Jade, it doesn't stop in China, as such. They changed the embarkation port from Hong Kong to Singapore, barred Chinese nationals from boarding, and keep flouting their "improved" screening methods.

Security precautions are all well and good under normal circumstances. But the current coronavirus pandemic is an extraordinary situation that NCL needs to acknowledge and take appropriate steps to remedy, such as offering full refunds to valued passengers.

No, they didn't feel they were "at risk".

For those, like me, who booked before the coronavirus epidemic hit the news, it was business as usual. My wife and I are in good health, and we looked around and tried to figure out if there was any reason to spend another couple hundred bucks on travel insurance we thought we didn't need. And it's true that many so-called travel insurance policies wouldn't cover this situation anyway. Nobody could forsee that bats and pangolins would conspire in spreading a biological agent over half the planet.

It is not unreasonable to expect the cruise line to make what we call here in France a "geste commercial" towards their frequent passengers, in order to show that they really do have their passengers' health and well-being at heart. Nobody in their right mind will leave their cozy homes to venture unprotected into a virus-infested zone that has the kind of death toll we are hearing of daily from China. Singapore isn't at risk only because of its proximity to China, but because there are notable cases of local transmission taking place, like those two Brits who carried the coronavirus back home after a conference.

And from what we see happening on board the Diamond Princess, a cruise ship can become a veritable petri dish, infecting more and more victims as the quantine drags on. So I find SeaShark's remarks disingenuous at best, or just plain offensive. It doesn't help to badmouth people who didn't bother "to adequately insure themselves" and who are looking to the cruise line, NCL, to do the right thing. Sure, SeaShark is entitled to his opinion about the relative merits of travel insurance, but the way he's going about airing that opinion just seems sad.

This is my latest contribution to eTurbonews:

Bonjour,

I am happy to provide more information on our situation, and the situation of dozens of NCL customers who have been discussing the current coronavirus epidemic and how it impacts their plans for a cruise.

There are currently four cruise ships that are either in quarantine or unable to deal with port closures. The doubling of new coronavirus cases on board the Diamond Princess quarantined in Yokohama illustrates the very real danger that this epidemic poses to cruise passengers. Whether the transmission of the virus is confined to personal contact, or if there is a more insidious means of transmission through the air circulation system of the ship remains to be determined.

It is unreasonable of those responsible for NCL's refusal to refund passengers who refuse to put themselves in this precarious and dangerous situation to expect those passengers to board a future cruise as if it was just business as usual. We booked a balcony room on the Norwegian Jade sailing on 17 February at the end of December, just before the news broke, and have been trying to get NCL to agree to refund our $3,293.30 reservation ever since. Both my wife and I have mild but chronic respiratory issues, and we can't risk coming into contact with the coronavirus, or being quarantined for an undetermined amount of time while the danger of infection mounts, as it has on the Diamond Princess.

The measures that NCL has put into place, with temperature-based screening and barring Chinese nationals from boarding are woefully insufficient to face the current health crisis. The change in itinerary from a Hong Kong departure to Singapore is not reassuring in the slightest, given that Singapore has also proven to suffer from local transmission cases. Dozens of passengers on the same NCL cruise and the following one have been exchanging information on the Cruisecritic forums, desperately trying to get a reasonable response from NCL. I have sent emails to six different NCL representatives, and get the same disappointing reply each time, when they deign to reply at all. NCL has offered a 10% refund to passengers, as well as a 25% credit towards a future cruise, but we all view this pitiful offer as no better than treating a heart attack with a bandaid. NCL needs to wake up to the gravity of the situation and realize that no one in their right mind will voluntarily place themselves in harm's way for the dubious pleasure of "enjoying" a cruise during the current crisis. NCL simply directs passengers to talk with their travel agency, and use their cruise cancellation insurance, without regard to their very real responsibility to protect the health and well-being of their passengers.

My wife and I have had generally positive experiences with NCL in the past. We are Silver Lattitude members, which is the cruise equivalent of a frequent flier program, and assuming that NCL wises up in the next couple of days, would be happy to travel with NCL in the future. But many people on the Cruisecritic forum are enraged by NCL's unhelpful and irresponsible attitude and declare that they will never cruise with NCL again. I'm sad to say that if we have to kiss our over three thousand dollar payment goodbye, that will be our decision as well.

Regardless of NCL's decision, we will not be travelling on the Norwegian Jade cruise of 17 February, and have already managed to cancel our airfare with Finnair (though we are still waiting for confirmation of reimbursement). NCL must change their irresponsible position on refunds, and show that they really do care about the health and enjoyment of their passengers, rather than treating them with disdain and arrogance as they now are.

Sincerely,

Philip Benz, an NCL Silver Lattitudes member from France

I just received an email from NCL:

"Bonjour Philip,

Please contact your travel advisor in regards to cancelling  your reservation.

Merci"

However, our "travel advisor" still has no new information. 10% refund + 25% credit on a future cruise just doesn't cut it. I'll keep you posted on developments.

We didn't get any cancellation insurance at all. Of course, now, that seems shortsighted. But nobody could have predicted that endangered pangolins in a chinese market would transmit some bat virus. Or however it happened.

We've been on perhaps 20 cruises in the last 15 years, so I guess we could just consider the $3000 some we're losing here is the accumulated cost of cancellation insurance we didn't buy over the years. Still, we hold out hope that NCL will come to its senses and realize what a PR boondoggle not refunding bookings will be. It would appear that any attempt to contact NCL directly is pointless. Only if Singapore and/or Thailand close their ports to cruise ships do we see any hope of the Jade cancelling its itinerary outright.

Second response, from jrose@ncl.com. Word for word the same as the previous reponse (see above). Except for the very first line. Either all the NCL employees have been told to paste the same message, or (more likely) they are routing all inquiries to an automated response system. As NLH Arizona said above, we can only hope that Sinfapore and other ports of call are closed to cruises, so that the entire itinerary can be cancelled.

Well, that was quick! But profoundly unsatisfying. Here is the reply from kbyrd:

Quote

Dear Philip,

Thank you for choosing Norwegian Cruise Line and for being a valuable latitude member.  We understand your concerns and I have included on this communication all measures we are currently taking to ensure the safety and security of our valued guests and crew (this communication was sent to all guests and travel partners sailing in the month of February). 

For those guests who opt to cancel, we advise them to contact their travel insurance carrier for options of compensations.

 

So the final word from NCL: No travel insurance, no cookie.

I have sent firm but polite emails to the following ncl addresses:

kbyrd@ncl.com
Astuart@ncl.com
hsommer@ncl.com
sdeaton@nclcorp.com
PublicRelations@ncl.com
jleung@nclcorp.com

If anyone has access to other addresses, I would be happy to try them too. IMHO it doesn't help to slam NCL (even if they richly deserve it), rather making an appeal as a valued (silver) customer just might yield results.

Yeah, I know, I'm dreaming. But we have no legal recourse. Everything depends on what the people at NCL decide.

As a reminder, we are booked on the 17 Feb Norwegian Jade sailing. 8 days and counting.

Cheers,   --- Phil

10 minutes ago, caneable said:

My advice, leave that phone alone, you know what you want but you might not necessarily get it if you cancel too soon.  Best wishes, Steve

Thanks for the kind words. It doesn't feel right, but we are waiting, hoping for the situation in Singapore to get worse so that the Jade sailing is cancelled. I don't want to wish this disease on anyone, but NCL needs to step up. They can't seriously expect cruise passengers to risk their lives or a 14-day quarantine just to go on a cruise. We booked before this whole situation started, and now we are shaking our heads at the ludicrous "business-as-usual" policy that NCL seems to have adopted.

We are booked on the 17 Feb sailing of the Norwegian Jade and very disappointed that NCL is not offering full refunds. We have decided not to go, even if we have to kiss over $3000 goodbye. I read this morning that the Norwegian Spirit is cancelling their Asian itinerary, so all we can hope for is that the Norwegian Jade follows suit. As far as I can tell, we have no legal recourse to force reimbursement, so we are at the mercy of NCL's decisions.

I hate to knock NCL for this, because we have had nice experiences with them in the past. But NCL needs to know that this will be our very last booking with them or with any Carnival-owned cruise, unless they come through and allow refunds.

Contacting NCL is nearly imposssible. If anyone has an email contact for them, it would be much appreciated.