ExoticDestinations
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On 8/5/2020 at 4:40 PM, jonikal said:
Confirmed... canceling Norway... https://www.borsen.no/nyheter/hva-dette-koster-har-ingen-betydning/72717397
Summary:
"SeaDream1 is anchored in the corona quarantine outside Bodø with over 160 people on board, evenly distributed among passengers and crew.
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Saturday's six-day voyage from Oslo to Bergen with a handful of stops has been canceled because the government has introduced a two-week ban on landing ...
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Brynestad puts new trips on hold until the autumn until he knows what the government is doing after the first 14-day ban on going ashore."
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13 hours ago, JES4845 said:
Indeed ... thanks to your post I checked just now and the Norwegian voyages there yesterday have been removed ... the first voyages shown are in mid September in the Med which seems quite unlikely.
Agreed. My contact says the rest of Norway is canceled.
- https://seadream.com/no/ now redirects to https://seadream.com/luxury-cruise/luxury-north-south-america-cruise/north-south-america-ports/
- No SD1 voyages until 10/24 out of Lisbon (assuming Spain will even allow it).
- No SD2 voyages until it magically appears in STT on 11/14 (assuming each island will allow it).
Also interesting/concerning - the COVID Updates messaging and link has been deleted from website???
Sadly, all these people who recently booked Norway or those who hadn't yet canceled their 2020 Med can expect to be treated they way we all were during Round 1 and 2 of this debacle. A cryptic "if you cancel us before we cancel you, no refunds without penalty. Refer to our Terms" message. Then when SD officially cancels each one, they will will have to wait 90 days to get their refund.
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Quick update from one of my FB Friends over in FL: The SD Office in Miami, which had been shuttered since March, was permanently abandoned in mid-June. Folks who had personal items were given same-day notice to grab what they could. There are no plans to open another US office as they are still running a skeleton crew at about 20% normal staffing levels, all working from home.
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On 6/8/2020 at 5:50 AM, kla203 said:
We booked the 12 days cruise from July 21. Just talked with our TA. There is a run for this offer and 7 days too and TA expect all planned trips to be sold out quickly. Let's hope they are right.
I'd have to imagine that a good portion of this Norwegian "demand" are really people cashing in their free voyage.
SD has no choice but to throw any voyage possible together to bleed down their 6-7 month backlog of free credits where people didn't ask for a refund. Probably 25%-30% of the cabins will be credits/non-revenue, with the (rest at these highly discounted price). And that percentage will only go higher once American's and Brit's can travel and the yachts are in more desirable/accessible ports.
Let's hope the Owner make an announcement soon that addresses their long-term viability, the dry-docks, crew updates, Miami office status, etc.
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On 6/7/2020 at 11:45 AM, cabosal1 said:
We have converted our January Caribbean cruise to a "floating" week and would like some opinions on cruises during the holidays (Christmas, New Years). Are these bad times if we want to avoid the kiddos? (Yes, we do).
Triple check that you can use your credit during the Christmas & New Years' voyage. They usually black those out. However, Thanksgiving is almost always wide open. And yes, there will be Minions aboard. But I've found them to be "well-traveled", so not a huge bother. And the crew is good about giving them boundaries and scooting them along if they are being loud or irritating.
Pro Hint: If they tell you that you can't use your credit on the Holiday voyage, just threaten to cancel and request a refund. They will then offer you as much as 150%. This is what they offered on the closer-in voyages they just canceled. No reason you shouldn't get the same deal.
Extra Hint: Do the above just before your next payment or your 25%/50%/100% penalty date.
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On 6/4/2020 at 6:06 PM, BeignetBoy said:
Our TA just sent us an email indicating that she was contacted by SeaDream and notified of a cancellation of the fall westbound from Malaga scheduled to depart on October 24. They are offering a refund, or a 120% credit for trips made before the end of 2022. Did anyone else receive such a call?
Be sure you ask for a refund, not the 120% credit. That starts the count-down clock AND SeaDream either immediately - or after a little time will - come back with a better offer. Probably more like 150%. Remember, they are cash starved so will bend over backwards to keep your money.
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9 hours ago, Jim Avery said:
Just received an attractive email from SD touting the upcoming Norwegian cruises. Nice pictures and description.....Except nowhere in the email does it mention being restricted to Norwegians. I guess the intent is to get me to call in and maybe buy some other future speculation.🍸
Well of course they don't mention that most anyone flying to/from Norway will have to quarantine on both ends of their trip. Not when they might get someone to drop a deposit that they don't have to refund for three to six month. 😞
And check this out:
- The Norwegian microsite shows SD1 in Norway until 21 September (https://www.seadream.no/).
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Then look at the global website at: https://seadream.com/voyages/search/destinations/caribbean-mediterranean/months/9-10-11-12/years/2020/options/none/yachts/seadream1-seadream2.
- Shows SD2 accepting online bookings from Venice on 5 September for a "25 day voyage" through Valletta, Nice & Rome through the start of October. 25 days? Interesting how it is "wait-listed"?
- And SD1 missing in action until it magically teleports to Marigot on November 7th.
They obviously can/do update the website. So why not put the Norwegian voyages on the main site? Just weird.
it all seems like just more of their shenanigans to get/keep money with no sensible communication. Like in March when they were forcing people to fly to San Juan only to cancel hours before sailing, email blasting about Champagne & Caviar then changing the itinerary, giving crazy discounts to "stay on board" to those already there, and trying to get people to show up in Barbados even if their flights were canceled. Meanwhile, every other cruise line was adhering to the pandemic guidelines.
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18 hours ago, Scspartan76 said:
I called them today. It is only one voyage that start at 1900usd. The 12 night sailings start at 3900USD per person. And goes up to 10000usd for the owner suite.
The first sailing from Bergen to Oslo is almost sold out according to my TA. And it is open for sale for Danish as well.
Good Intel!
Should be interesting to see the level of service at this price. Given all the international travel restrictions, are they bringing back the Thai Spa, Philippians or Club staff from the UK or South Africa?
$3900 is a little better. But 93 days of one ship at perfect 100% full-paying occupancy is still less than $3.4M gross revenue. And they won't get close to that level of paid occupancy in Norway without more discounting. So the math still doesn't work out for them unless they get a loan or investors or government protection.
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3 minutes ago, Scspartan76 said:
The web site is updated, and they are sailing from June 20th in Norway
Global site is not updated. Check it out:
- The Norwegian site shows SD1 in Norway until 21 September (https://www.seadream.no/).
- The global website shows SD1 accepting online bookings from Venice on 1 September and then Valletta, Nice & Rome through the start of October. See: https://seadream.com/voyages/search/destinations/mediterranean/months/all/years/2020/options/none/yachts/seadream1.
Which is it, Norway or Venice? She can't be in two places at the same time. 🙂
Updating a website takes amateur skills these days, so just make the fix, no? Unless there is just no one smart enough left? If not, they should take the main website down. Otherwise, it could look like they are willing to take bookings on voyages they know aren't sailing but haven't cancelled yet so they don't have to refund until 90 days after notification.
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17 hours ago, Joe817 said:
I never heard of them either. But sure enough, there is a forum right here on CC.
https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forum/136-seadream-yacht-club/
18 hours ago, Saint Greg said:Never heard of it but good news. Hopefully they don't screw it up.
Yeah... they are a small. Just two 35-year old ships they bought back in 2001.
Be sure you read the more recent threads in that forum thoroughly before you send them any money. They closed their USA office, canceled almost all voyages through September but don't update their website, laid off almost 90% of company, changed their payment terms and haven't paid a refund since February, refuse all communication, etc. So lots of unhappy customers left to wonder if they will be around much longer.
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15 hours ago, JES4845 said:
Will be interesting to see how the pricing holds up ... whether these super low bargain basement prices are very capacity controlled, whether there is an exchange rate issue too, or just what. Seems awfully low IF this is going to be to the superb level SD has consistently provided over the years. One issue or angle in that regard is the availability of crew both quantity and most importantly those who know the SD way ... any thoughts/insights???
Exactly... At $1900, that's $270 per day for Deck two. If you plus that up for Deck 3 & 4 & the Suites, and with 93 days on this schedule, the most they can hope to make is $3M.
But they'll be discounting the hell out of it to try to get passengers and having to give away cabins to any who had credits. Yet in their best years, their average occupancy was around 75% and these 12 day voyages will have an even lower daily rate. So $2.5M is maybe the most realistic number? Then pull out operating cost of what, 60%? Now you are down to $1.15M?
AND they now have to cancel the remaining Med through September. PLUS they have SD2 sitting idle, generating only cost, no income. THEN canceling the much needed drydock/refurbs to reposition both yachts back to the Caribbean only to have half the passengers waiving their 150% credits at them?
No matter how gracious you are with the math, there will be no where near enough to cover all the refund requests payable from February through September. Especially with the Miami office shut down, so no one selling or supporting new bookings or charters in their #1 market. We can only hope the Owner is pumping money into SD until all the refunds bleed down so they can re-hire sales and refurb both yachts.
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On 5/21/2020 at 5:25 PM, Jim Avery said:
This screen shot shows the 601 Brickell office open at present and closing at 7pm. Who knows if that is true?
seadream yacht club miami office - Google Search.webarchive 2.23 MB · 10 downloads
Ok, screen shot didn't work. Good thing I don't work for Google.....🍸
Miami City is allowing non-retail to be open again as of last week and the Brickell Key building is open to all tenants. But SD office is still closed and remaining employees have been warned not to attempt to go there. Rumor is they are still not paying rent and not going to move back in anytime soon, if at all.
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1 hour ago, Scspartan76 said:
their refund policy clearly States 90 days https://seadream.com/payment-refund-policy/
In regards to 90 days this is in Line with the latest travel law and regulations both from The Eu and Norway. The New law in Norway was back dated giving travel companies up to 90 days to refund. This was backdated to all cancellations/refund requests from March.
This was implemented by the Government to support the tourism industry and avoid they all companies goes under.
SeaDream is a Norwegian company and are allowed to follow this law.
Their t&c reads:
- THIS PASSAGE CONTRACT SHALL BE GOVERNED BY AND CONSTRUED IN ACCORDANCE WITH NORWEGIAN LAW, EXCEPT FOR NORWEGIAN CHOICE OF LAW PRINCIPLES. IF THERE IS CONFLICT BETWEEN NORWEGIAN LAW AND A PROVISION OF THIS PASSAGE CONTRACT, THE CONTRACT PREVAILS.
- ANY CLAIM FOR EMOTIONAL OR BODILY INJURY, ILLNESS TO OR DEATH ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THIS CONTRACT MUST BE BROUGHT AT THE ASKER AND BAERUM DISTRICT COURT, NORWAY, TO THE EXCLUSION OF ANY OTHER COURT.
This can all be found here: https://seadream.com/about/policies-terms-conditions/
I am angry too. Why? Because the confirmation email/PDF everyone gets upon booking and 1st payment says; "Please contact us to receive a full description of these policies or visit our website at http://www.seadream.com/paymentrefund-policy" But check it out - this link is missing a dash between "payment" and "refund". And when you click on it, it redirects you to the main T&C page (https://seadream.com/about/policies-terms-conditions/) where there is no mention of 90 days. Can anyone else confirm their Booking Confirmation PDF has the same link?
Regardless. it is only when you email SD to cancel that they send a different link - https://seadream.com/payment-refund-policy/ (note there is now a "-") - which is identical to the T&C page refund policy except it has the extra paragraph about 90 days. And this new link isn't referenced anywhere else I can find the documents or website.
I am not saying this is some conspiracy to keep from refunding, as the missing "-" on the confirmation document may just be an honest mistake. But the mere existence of a separate refund policy page distinct from the T&C page with no ability to read it beforehand is mighty curious. And it shows the CC company that no one could know about a 90 day policy when booking. Only when they request a refund.
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1 hour ago, Scspartan76 said:
their refund policy clearly States 90 days https://seadream.com/payment-refund-policy/
In regards to 90 days this is in Line with the latest travel law and regulations both from The Eu and Norway. The New law in Norway was back dated giving travel companies up to 90 days to refund. This was backdated to all cancellations/refund requests from March.
This was implemented by the Government to support the tourism industry and avoid they all companies goes under.
SeaDream is a Norwegian company and are allowed to follow this law.
Their t&c reads:
- THIS PASSAGE CONTRACT SHALL BE GOVERNED BY AND CONSTRUED IN ACCORDANCE WITH NORWEGIAN LAW, EXCEPT FOR NORWEGIAN CHOICE OF LAW PRINCIPLES. IF THERE IS CONFLICT BETWEEN NORWEGIAN LAW AND A PROVISION OF THIS PASSAGE CONTRACT, THE CONTRACT PREVAILS.
- ANY CLAIM FOR EMOTIONAL OR BODILY INJURY, ILLNESS TO OR DEATH ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THIS CONTRACT MUST BE BROUGHT AT THE ASKER AND BAERUM DISTRICT COURT, NORWAY, TO THE EXCLUSION OF ANY OTHER COURT.
This can all be found here: https://seadream.com/about/policies-terms-conditions/
It is important to know that all tourism companies use money for cash flow when they get money. No tourism company will just sit on the money they received for bookings.
I understand that people are frustrated, but SeaDream is within their legal right to spend 90 days before refunding.
37 minutes ago, JES4845 said:Good luck trying to win that legal argument in a U.S. court or many others for that matter.
SeaDream has an entity incorporated under the laws of the state of Florida (where I now reside as a retired attorney), listing U.S. citizens including SD’s President as the relevant officer. SD sold voyages via the Miami office (and Oslo too), in US Dollars, and cited the government’s closure of the Miami FL USA office as a reason for delaying the promised refunds well beyond the initial 10-14 day period. The attempt to retroactively change this to 90 days simply wouldn’t fly.
Correct. They are a "Florida Profit Corporation". See: http://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/GetDocument?aggregateId=domp-p01000079045-551820b2-9f14-42f3-bc07-f10fd1ba0e3c&transactionId=p01000079045-246a4dd4-db05-4f18-9280-8c81325c2132&formatType=PDF
I am told, the President, Andreas Brynestad (listed on the above filing), not a US Citizen.
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2 hours ago, beachbooles said:
Hi all!
Has anyone succeeded in getting a refund from SD? Seeing that April, May, June, July and August voyages are now cancelled (and even the end of March maybe?)...I was wondering. We cancelled our August 29th departure from Malta, ending in Rome, and they said it would take up to 90 days. It's been 34.. 🙂 I feel i'm going to end up having to get American Express involved but i'm hoping not. So, if others have gotten their refunds, i'd love to know!! Thank you!
Thanks for starting a new thread.
I am not speaking for anyone else, but the only people I've connected with to have gotten any money back was by going through their credit card company. Otherwise, I haven't seen any stories here or elsewhere of refunds being paid since before mid-February, which is over 90 days ago. And with communication being non-existent and their offices remaining closed, sadly, you may need to go this route too. If you do, here is what someone shared with me.
"Upload your booking contract and/or a screenshot of their terms and conditions web-page which has the original refund policy. Then note that when you booked, 90 days was not their policy and still isn't on their T&C page. Include a short statement on how SD changed to 90 days and made it retro-active to your existing booking without contacting you or posting a policy announcement on their website. Meaning, you were told one thing when you booked and another when you tried to cancel. And if you have any unanswered or cut/paste emails or bounce-backs from terminated employees, include those as well. This would support the claim by showing they are unable or unwilling to honor their original terms. Depending on your card and the thoroughness of your appeal, you could get instant notification of success or they may ask for more information. Either way, SD will have to respond to the CC company and may actually even try to contact you with another offer so you will cancel your appeal."
Post here any updates so we can all benefit from your experience? Thanks!
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I don't see a way they can execute a summer season even with re-positioning SD1 to Norway when it is running at half crew. Wouldn't they need to bring more back staff from places like the Philippians/Thailand, and/or recruit/train new people, and/or cut amenities and quality? Or maybe they could further transfer staff from SD2, and then mothball her somewhere cheap? Plus they fired 95% of their shore side team such that they can't even keep their website updated or reply to simple emails.
So is it reasonable to see them sailing again before September/October at the earliest?
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On 5/11/2020 at 8:47 AM, JES4845 said:
Rumor/intel suggests owner wants the assets closer to home. Also attempting to use them for Norwegian cruises with Norwegians and others who can get there, which actually makes some sense given the dismal conditions in the Med. Probably less expensive in Norway for docking, etc. Supposition would be added wrinkle easier to get crew home from Norway than other places given SD is a Norwegian company with more connections and options there than elsewhere.
They just updated their COVID statement to "the end of May" - https://seadream.com/covid-19/
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9 hours ago, Jim Avery said:
SD II appears to have moved to anchor in the port of Lisbon. SD I is northbound off the Portuguese coast with the aforementioned Rotterdam as destination. FWIW.😎
https://www.cruisemapper.com/?imo=8203438
Is anyone hearing WHY SD1 is heading north? I am asking my FB connections, but I wish they would just tell us what is happening.
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On 4/15/2020 at 10:02 AM, ctbjr1309 said:
The SD website now showing first scheduled cruises to be May 22 on SDI and May 25 on SDII.
It looks like SD1 is still booking voyages from Nice on 25 May and Rome on 29 May, even though it is on the way to Oslo? Likewise, SD2 is still taking bookings for Rome on 22 May, even though it is sitting in Lisbon with a skeleton crew. Perhaps those have already been canceled and they just haven't updated the website?
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On 5/6/2020 at 2:22 AM, Scspartan76 said:
This is really strange because I am not able to locate any newspapers/sources that claim this. I live in Norway and there have been no news on Mr. Brynestad's liquidity.
And in regards to ports, if you read cruisemapper.com you would see that several French ports are opening, same with Norwegian ports.
France has opened for travel from EU and Schengen without quarantine.
If you are out to spread fake news, make sure you can not be caught.
I was not "spreading fake news". I was sharing what I heard, then asking what others might have heard. Please excuse any impression to the contrary.
Anyway, here is story she was referencing: https://e24.no/naeringsliv/i/g7Aov9/brynestad-har-opplevd-upassende-motstand-fra-gaardeiere-etter-stenging
And here are some links regarding the published SD1&2 ports of call for the next 30 days (https://seadream.com/voyages/) -
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France: https://www.gouvernement.fr/en/coronavirus-covid-19 -
- International travel - The borders of the European space (the European Union, the Schengen Area and the United Kingdom) are shut until further notice.
- Intra-EU travel - French citizens and nationals of the European Union, the Schengen Area and the United Kingdom are authorized, along with their spouse and children, to enter the national territory in order to travel to their homes. Please note that you will need a certificate to travel in France."
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Spain, Italy & Greece - https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5097/ -
- Spain: "has closed its land, sea and air borders to non-residents -- originally for 30 days from March 23; now indefinitely."
- Italy: "The entire country of Italy is in a government mandated lockdown that has been extended indefinitely. No cruises are permitted to visit."
- Greece: "Bans are in place for all cruise ships and sailboats arriving into Greek ports. The port of Piraeus (Athens) is closed until at least June 1."
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France: https://www.gouvernement.fr/en/coronavirus-covid-19 -
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Chatting with some of the skeleton and furloughed crew on FB, they confirm there are no plans to bring the rest of crew back in the next 2 months. So they are as confused as the rest of us as to why the upcoming late May and June voyages haven't cancelled yet. There is no way the yachts could staff up even if the ports were to open, and all summer Med charters have already cancelled. They also confirmed there is no dry dock planned for the rest of the year. Checking cruisemapper.com and sure enough both I and II are still both "wet docked" in Lisbon, so the above information would appear to be accurate.
Some other things she mentioned are that no refunds have been paid out since late February, that the entire global sales teams are gone and the club directors didn't get their Q1 payouts. The Miami office stopped paying rent and are locked out by landlord. And that the Owner's other businesses in Norway are getting what little cash flow they can scrape together. She even cited a news story (in Norwegian) that confirmed how grim their liquidity is. Also that there has been a huge spike in credit card companies refunding customers and charging back to SD.
All these certainly explain why SD won't pay refunds, instead making crazy offers on future voyages that will never happen. Anyone else confirm any of these or heard anything else?
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What is status of SD’s Miami office now?
in SeaDream Yacht Club
Posted
I went back to my source with Andreas' posting to verify, and am satisfied nothing I posted was false, misinformation or a lie.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum
These are the same word-games they played back in March when they changed the refund policy on a separate web page outside their Terms and Services page. Then say "Look at our terms" as justification for holding on to deposits.
He could be coming on here to instead answer questions or give updates, not spreading his own brand of misinformation on irrelevant minutia that can be easily fact-checked.
K.