Steerpike58

On 5/7/2024 at 1:47 PM, crystalspin said:

Oh, that's true -- after walking by the crowd of people with pagers waiting for the MDR on the first night, we simply didn't try again! Well, we called for a reservation on the night of Lamb Shanks, but the only opening was very late and at a large table... so I agree, there is a problem with MDR.

...

 

Did you have Orange Club? That's supposed to improve matters with MDR, is it not?  We are going to be on the Oosterdam in September, and dining as a couple is a non-negotiable - no table sharing for us! Could this be a problem, do you think? We tend to eat fairly late (circa 7:30 or 8pm). On Viking OCEAN, we never had a problem getting a table for 2, without reservations. On Viking RIVER, we had to really struggle to get a table for 2 and we'll never go through that again. 

11 hours ago, crystalspin said:

The Pinnacle Class including the K'dam, are not "new monsters". We did a 16-day B2B and promptly booked (and subsequently re-booked) a 35-day on the Koningsdam. She has the perfect selection of venues so that rarely does anyplace seem crowded.

But what about port visits? Surely that's when the size would become most obvious. The more passengers there are to disembark, the slower it's likely to be, and how can a cute small-town destination (like Kotor, Montenegro) cope with 2-3,000 passengers descending on them at once? 

21 hours ago, Happily@Sea said:

 

This is the 'usual' for Viking. They built their reputation on river cruises and this is a normal perk of all river cruises - no matter the line. River cruises also park right downtown - at least in Europe. They have had years of training doing this - but is it really a bargain for ocean sailing ships or just an extra reason to raise their prices?? Only the cruiser choosing a cruise can answer.

One advantage Viking Ocean has is their smaller ship size; one example - we were able to dock in Kotor, spitting distance from the center of town, while another cruise ship had to 'tender'. Obviously, coming and going was a piece of cake for us.  Our upcoming HA cruise is on a ship with about 1900 passengers, which is more than double the Viking number. I simply cannot conceive of being on a 'big' ship - these new monsters they are building now. 

On our one (and only - never again!) Viking River cruise, several of our visits were to non-descript remote locations on the Danube; in part because of water levels. We couldn't dock in Budapest last year, and ended up in some remote spot with nowhere to go at night. Similar issues near Bucharest. Vienna was perfect - walking distance to town. 

17 hours ago, islandwoman said:

Are these Viking included shore excursions the ones that you would choose if you were to book them yourself or do you feel that since you've already paid for them, you ought to take advantage?

When I went on my one and only Viking cruise (it was a river cruise), I signed up for every one of the included shore excursions just because they were already paid for.  By the end of the cruise, I was SO tired of riding on busses and wished that I had done something different in many of the ports. But then again, I would have had to pay double for shore excursions. 

That's a very good question!  We have yet to ever arrange our own formal excursions. We have so far gone with a mixture of the 'included' Viking excursion (which tend to be a moderately extensive intro to a location, but without anything fancy like big meals, etc - probably the equivalent of a $100-$150 HA excursion) and 'extra cost', more extensive / elaborate excursions from Viking. How they compare to HA's offerings we won't know till September. 

We are nervous about arranging our own excursions due to the usual concerns about getting back to the ship.

In general, we are finding that we prefer to just explore a location on our own, so if the port is close to the destination, or if there's a flexible shuttle or public transit option, then we'll simply explore the destination on our own. We did that in Athens, Istanbul, Kotor, Dubrovnik, Hong Kong, Vienna, Budapest, etc.  I have to say, we've had some disappointing excursions with Viking; I don't think it's Viking's fault necessarily - any time you want to feed and entertain a large group of people, you are asking for trouble! On an 'extension' in Prague, they bussed a coach-load of us out of the beautiful center of Prague and dumped us in a remote rural 'barn', where we were fed mediocre food, mediocre wine, and entertained by terrible singers wearing local costumes ... supposedly an intro to the 'flavors and sounds of Prague'. We would have been 10x happier going to a restaurant in Prague on our own! But you aren't going to find an atmospheric place in the center of Prague that's willing to take 30+ people, that's also accessible by coach. 

17 hours ago, islandwoman said:

 

Also, when comparing Viking and Holland America, don't forget to compare their cancellation policies.

My current impression is that a) HA give you a lot more time to cancel than Viking, and b) HA are more liberal in terms of giving refunds? I haven't researched it in depth. 

On 4/28/2024 at 2:22 PM, Steerpike58 said:

Thanks for all the info here!  I ended up booking two cruises on HA on Friday;

...

Now we get to see how the excursion booking process is, compared to Viking. 

One difference between HA and Viking that I've noticed while booking the excursions for our cruise seems to be 'shuttles' into town.  It seems like HA charge for nothing but a coach into town and back. With Viking, they provided coach shuttles at no cost. Eg - Athens (Piraeus) - 

HA: 

This transfer may suit you if you would like to explore on your own. It consists of a motorcoach ride from the ship to the city. You will be dropped off at a central location, and your escort will show you to the Old Town (Plaka) area and advise you of the pick-up time for the return journey. You will have approximately two hours and twenty minutes to shop and explore on your own.

Viking - in Athens (Pireaus), they just ran a coach to and from a central pickup location and published a schedule for the pickups (roughly every 30 mins or hour, with the last one clearly identified).  This was free, and as noted gave you as much or as little time in town as you wanted.  I do see that HA are providing an 'escort' to get you to Plaka. Google Maps did a fine job as our escort on Viking 🙂

So this is another way HA is charging for something that Viking 'build in' to their (much higher) price. So far, we've run up an 'excursion' cost of about $2,200 ($1,100 each), minus $400 (200 each) HIA credit so $1,800 so far. Viking guarantee at least 1 free excursion per port, so our excursion costs tend to be lower on Viking. The HA approach would seem to favor those who prefer to organize their own excursions, since you aren't already paying (indirectly) for the 'included' ones with Viking. 

At the end of the day, it will be interesting to see just how much cheaper these HA cruises are going to be! 

Thanks for all the info here!  I ended up booking two cruises on HA on Friday; a single-occupancy circle-Japan cruise next March with my buddies (the ones who will be in the Neptune Suite, requiring me to have Club Orange so I can join them) and one with my girlfriend to Malta in September. The price was so cheap (compared to Viking) that we upgraded to a 'Signature' room on the Malta cruise and it's still much lower than the Viking rate for a veranda room. We went for 'Club Orange' on the Malta cruise also; it seemed to give us a much lower price on the rooms, somehow (or at least, our HA travel guy was able to get us a better price than we could get on the website).  The HA travel guy was very helpful. 

We're going to have two nights (one full day) in Rome at the start, and 4 nights (three full days) in Barcelona at the end. HA seem to have fewer 'pre-' and 'post-' cruise extensions compared to Viking, but - we felt the last two pre / post extensions with Viking were not good value anyway so we'll just put together our own package.  

Now we get to see how the excursion booking process is, compared to Viking. 

3 hours ago, Sea42 said:

Wow, that seems expensive for a 14 day, OV, with no inclusions.

Our 22 day, South America w/Antarctica (2025) is that price, all in. It is for a veranda cabin and includes gratuities, WiFi, drinks and 3 specialty dinners. We also were able to choose our cabin.

What itinerary is this?

I kept notes/screen shots. It's a 14-day Iceland cruise, from Rotterdam, but - it's for single occupancy so the rate is basically double the typical 'double occupancy' quote (which gets doubled at the end, for two).  I've since been looking at lots of cruises, and the premium for choosing your own room seems to vary wildly, I believe depending on what range of 'other' rooms exist in inventory.  So, for example, if there's only a few rooms left, and those rooms are at the bottom level of the category, the price difference is zero. But if you started out with, say, obstructed view', then go 'choose your own room', the difference jumps up because the range of rooms shown isn't restricted to obstructed view rooms only.  Thats my current theory! 

26 minutes ago, crystalspin said:

...

You will not be able to order a latte in the Lido during breakfast, but you can use the elevator! 

I try real hard on cruises, especially since Covid, to avoid elevators at all costs - I view elevators as germ concentrators, and stairs as weight-loss devices/gym substitutes 🙂 . But yes, I will find a way to get to the Cafe. Or just eat in the cafe ... 

6 hours ago, YourWorldWithBill said:

I think you're correct about the one night two night issue. Our HAL cruises were 7 day and 10 day, and our next is a 13 day, and all were/will be in each port only one night. But since both of our Viking cruises were 7 days, there were also one night in each port!

To clarify, on the itineraries I've looked at (4 looked at in detail today!), HA typically arrive at a port at 7 or 8am, and depart from the port around 4pm, 6pm, or very rarely 11pm - almost never spend any nights in the port. EG - (HA snippet from a longer itinerary here): 

Compare that to this from Viking, similar itinerary (In reverse) - this is from our recent cruise):  

(I just noticed they didn't state the departure time from Sihanoukville 🙂 - it left around 6pm I believe). As you can see, only in Hue (Chan May) did they arrive and depart the same day. It seems like Viking often give you two half-days in a port, and spend the night in port, while HA arrive very early, and depart very late, but are always sailing overnight.  Again - not a scientific analysis, I just happened to compare these two in detail. 

21 hours ago, QuattroRomeo said:

Club Orange is a little trickier to describe. On only 3 ships is there a separate, private dining room just for CO. Noordam is not one of them. So far, we have only had CO on the private dining room ships. Therefore, you visit the MDR for dinner using the marked kiosk to go in right away. I do not know whether there is a special section within it or if you are seated wherever is empty. Hopefully someone who has had CO lately on Noordam will know!

...

My friends tell me the Noordam has a 'dedicated VIP section' for CO within the main dining room area. So that's why they want me to get CO, so I can join them in that section. Makes sense. 

15 hours ago, YourWorldWithBill said:

We cruised on Viking twice before our first HAL cruise, and once we started on HAL we never looked back. We have the same reason you mentioned - we didn't think the difference in price was justified - but we also like the HAL itineraries and the staff.

Since you have experience with Viking, I do have a question for you if I may. Looking at the HA itineraries, it seems like HA very rarely spend an overnight in port. We just got back from a Viking cruise in Asia (Bangkok to Hong Kong), and HA have an almost identical itinerary (Hong Kong to Singapore). But comparing the two in more detail, we had 5 overnights in port, with some of them two nights/3 days (Bangkok, Sihanoukville, HoChiMin City, HaLong Bay, Hong Kong) while HA seem to only have one overnight, in Bangkok (but HA then goes on to two extra destinations). A couple of other quick reviews of itineraries suggested a similar pattern (though I'm still new to their itineraries, of course). Are overnights in port more expensive for the cruise line?  I also noticed, Viking seem to give you two nights in both the start and the end port, while HA just 'depart' on the first day and 'arrive' on the last day. Not sure what to make of this - though it does give you (on the first port) a bit of a buffer in case you have issues with flying in. 

15 hours ago, crystalspin said:

...

ETA: do expand my quoted selection of your post, above. I've answered individual questions in RED!

 

Thanks for all your detailed responses!  Very helpful!  I'll try to ask follow on questions in context ... let's see if this works ...

(crystalspin said): 

I hate Nespresso machines; I just want steamed milk with an espresso shot. The Exploration Cafe is on Deck 3; Google tells me the Lido Cafe is on deck 9 ... so I'd be running up and down stairs to go between the two. Is the Lido the main location for breakfast buffet, and can I at least order a latte in the Lido (served, and paid for)?  Regarding toast - every breakfast buffet I've seen in the past few years (cruises, hotels, etc) has had a pile of fresh bread next to either a toaster, toaster oven or a 'conveyor belt' toaster.  Do HA simply provide a stock of recently toasted bread in the buffet?  I like my toast fresh, and 'very' dark (I call it cremated, for emphasis!). 

To restate my desires - I feel like my needs are incredibly 'basic' for breakfast - I don't want bacon/eggs/omelets/sausages/benedicts/porridge/cereal/pancakes, etc - just fresh toast, lattes, and fresh fruit. I guess I could 'place an order' for a latte if that's possible in the lido, but if it's a true 'buffet' (pure self-serve), maybe not? The Viking 'buffet' is more like a full-service restaurant that just happens to have a lot of stuff ready to be picked up.  It has an army of cooks and waiters on hand ready to custom make everything, and they'll get you the latte if you ask (I just prefer to do it myself as it's faster). 

(crystalspin said): 

The number of specialty dinners included in HIA depends on the length of the cruise, which you did not mention.

Duration would be 14 days. 

My travelling companions are HA veterans but they've been doing Neptune for so long I don't think they remember what it was like to be in the lower grade rooms!  But they did suggest I get Club Orange, making it sound like I would need to do that to be able to hang out with them easily. 

Thanks again for your help! 

Edit to add (since no replies yet!)

This description says (about the Lido Restaurant, at night)  "A casual dinner with waiter service, from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m., incorporates a couple of entrees from the dining-room menu and other options, along with multiple appetizers, soups, salads and desserts." So does that mean, Lido switches from Buffet (breakfast and lunch) to 'waiter service' for dinner, and if so, does that mean there's no full-blown 'buffet' for dinner? Using the Viking example again, their 'World Cafe' 'buffet' is more of a hybrid full serve/buffet than a classic buffet; they have plenty of cooks on hand ready to grill a steak, salmon, mahi-mahi, tuna, etc plus there's an array of prepared items to take (eg, 'side dishes').  They don't serve you at the table - you have to walk up and either pick up food or order and wait for food. So is there anything like that with the Noordam? 

14 hours ago, QuattroRomeo said:

Welcome to HAL! All specialty coffees incur a charge, as does sparkling water. If you don't drink alcohol, you might consider the Quench Beverage package instead. That will cover both lattes and Perrier, canned water and several other non-alcoholic drinks. 

Thanks for informing me about the 'quench' package! Works out at $21/day it seems - probably worth it if i drink 2-3 lattes and a few bottles of sparkling water, which is my daily dose. But it does say ''Enjoy ... bottled water ... and Exploration's Cafe Beverages".  I'm still not clear on where exactly I can get a latte on the ship to have with my breakfast; I want to have the latte with my breakfast buffet; is that 'Exploration Cafe'? (You mention Lido Cafe above). With coffee, I don't touch a drop after breakfast, but during breakfast, I want them fast and furious! 

14 hours ago, QuattroRomeo said:

There are no nifty espresso machines like you had on Viking for self-service in the Lido Market (buffet), only regular coffee. I'm not sure if Noordam has it but on our last cruise on Rotterdam there was a specialty coffee machine in the buffet, but you had to get a crew member to dispense it and there was a charge. It was never really busy though. 

 

There are lots of threads about Club Orange; in your case it might be worth it, because you are travelling with suite guests who get it automatically. That way, you get priority dining room access too, and can go at any time, not fixed seating. There is an extra entree choice on the menu, along with a few other perks. The nicest feature is the free upgrade to best available cabin in your category. 

 

All restaurants are available to you; you can make a reservation at Canaletto and Pinnacle Grill. 

 

Since my friends already have the benefits of Club Orange, and will presumably make reservations and get seated, won't I simply be able to join them at their table, without needing my own 'priority access'? The extra entrees is obviously a benefit. 

When you say "all restaurants are available to you, you can make a reservation at Canaletto and Pinnacle Grill" (with the Club Orange), is that unlimited - like, every night if I so desired? 

14 hours ago, Steerpike58 said:

I'm new to HA after a couple of Viking Ocean cruises.  I loved the Viking experience but the value proposition of HA is hard to ignore so I want to give it a try....

 

 

Thanks for the detailed replies to my message; I'll review and digest the info and probably come back with more questions shortly.   In the meantime, I did a sample booking and was surprised to see the very high premium associated with choosing your own room!  For a basic 'ocean view' room on a 14-day cruise, the difference between choosing my own room vs letting HA assign it was $700 - 

(and I think the premium was higher if I chose a better room class).  Is this always the case and why do they charge such a premium?  

The more I go through the details, the more I see the 'value proposition' eroding between HA and Viking!  The 'starting price' for HA is much lower, but - Viking include specialty coffees, sparkling water, basic wine/beer with meals, basic WiFi, specific room choice, one excursion per port, (some) specialty dining, and probably more I haven't figured out yet!  It's still hopefully going to be cheaper, but not by as much as I first thought. I guess that's somewhat obvious! (not trying to turn this into a Viking vs HA debate, just making some observations!). 

I'm new to HA after a couple of Viking Ocean cruises.  I loved the Viking experience but the value proposition of HA is hard to ignore so I want to give it a try. I'm looking at a cruise on the Noordam, joining a couple who are already booked on a cruise in a Neptune suite. I will be joining them solo and will be going for an Ocean View or Veranda suite. 

I prefer self-service for breakfast. All I want is toasted bread (toasted by me, to my darkness requirements 🙂 ), fresh fruit, and a few cafe lattes. Viking has a 'pretty decent' self-service espresso machine in the buffet - it's not perfect, but it's better than waiting in a long line for a custom-made latte. Does HA have anything like this available with the breakfast buffet?  If not, what are my options for a latte? As I understand it, the 'HIA' package includes specialty coffees so I guess that means Cafe Lattes are not free? I typically drink 2 or 3 of them in quick succession and don't like to wait, which is why the machine is such a good option. 

Since I'll be in a basic room and my friends will be in a Neptune suite, what options do I have to be able to dine with them?  Are there restaurants they can use that I can't? This description suggests there's no exclusive dinner restaurants that Neptune gets that I don't, other than perhaps reservations at the Pinnacle Grill and Canaletto.  They suggested I get the 'club orange' deal in order to be able to dine with them, but all I see in the Club Orange description related to dining is 'Priority seating in the Dining Room for breakfast and dinner with an expanded menu'.  

The 'Have It All' package refers to: ‘Specialty dining: Dinner at a fine dining restaurant’, and 'Enhance your cruise with award-winning specialty dining at Pinnacle Grill, Canaletto or Tamarind' - does that just mean ONE dinner at one of the specialty restaurants is included in HIA?  

I don't drink alcohol so have no real need for a 'beverage' package, other than for the 'specialty coffees' (which I can't live without).  I also drink a lot of sparkling water with meals - is that included? 

Also - if I don't purchase the HIA package, do I get any internet access at all - is there a basic level of access provided for all? 

Edit to add: One final thing - I saw in this thread some mention of 'open seating' and 'designated seating' (or similar).  We tend to eat later (7pm or later). How exactly does designated seating work? 

One more thing - if I don't dine with them some evenings, will I have trouble eating alone? I'm not always in the mood for dining with strangers. 

Thanks for getting me started on my HA journey! 

8 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

 

No, they will not refund the difference.  Viking vouchers have no cash value.  You also cannot divide the voucher over two cruises.

 

You either have to upgrade your cabin, buy all the optional tours, or spend the money on Spa services, or alcohol or on the gratuities.  (Can't remember for sure, but think voucher value can be spent on gratuities....)

 

This is where at the beginning of the pandemic some folks got caught with vouchers that we 125% and for some that was a very enticing offer until you had to spend it.  If you were rebooking the same cruise it would be hard to spend 25% more.

 

We will only take cash back refund regardless of the voucher offer.

Ahhhh .... all the extras! - excursions, upgrades, cabin upgrades, etc. Yes, I can imagine taking advantage of those.   We were given the beverages package upgrade on our recent cruise, unasked. Ironically, I don't drink any more (and my partner manages about 1 glass of wine a night) so it was a bit of a waste!  

Following on from my post about Bangkok, we also observed a bit of a problem with our excursion to Macau from Hong Kong. The excursion was scheduled to leave the ship at around 8am.  The excursion coach left pretty close to on-time, and reached the ferry terminal by 8:40am.  We then discovered that our tickets for the ferry to Macau were not until 10am - over a 1 hour wait in the ferry terminal.  That's around 25% of the excursion time spent sitting in the (not very pleasant) ferry terminal.

I imagine they bulk-buy the ferry tickets well in advance, and buy them for the 10:00 am departure to allow for delays in the ship's arrival, and/or delays getting the excursion on the road - fair enough.  But - there is now a brand-new road from Hong Kong to Macau (apparently a spectacular series of bridges and tunnels), providing an alternative to the ferry.  I asked our tour guide why we weren't using the road, he made some reference to traffic, but - even if the traffic were heavy, I can't imagine it would have taken an extra hour. My own reading about that road suggests it is under-utilized.  Does anyone have any idea why they don't use the new road for the excursions to Macau? 

Once in Macau, we thoroughly enjoyed the old town, full of fascinating food options. But we only got a quick walk through the old town, no time to stop, and then on to the next venue (a temple). After that, we were taken to the 'revolving restaurant' at the top of the observation tower for lunch, then on to a very fancy casino. The lunch was outstanding, I have to say, but - we'd have much rather spent more time in the old town area and would have gladly skipped the modern restaurant and casino. Having the option to stay in old-town and re-join the group later would have been ideal (or just make our own way to the ferry terminal for the return trip). 

On 3/22/2024 at 3:26 AM, CDNPolar said:

 

Just a quiet warning about the voucher offer.

 

Be careful before accepting the voucher for 110% as these are very tempting because it is essentially free money, but Viking want to keep your money with them.

 

The voucher restrictions are tight and unless the voucher rules have changed, the voucher must be used in its entirety on your next cruise.  You cannot divide it between two cruises of lessor cost.

 

...

 

Just curious - using simple numbers to illustrate the point, not representative of the specific cruise under discussion - if current cruise were $10,000 then 110% would mean a $11,000 voucher.  What if you rebook on a cruise that is $9,000? Will they refund the difference of $2,000? 

If not, then it would suggest you really need to find a cruise of greater value to get any real benefit from the 110% offer. 

On 4/14/2024 at 4:59 PM, CDNPolar said:

Not to inflame the situation, but we have this exact pre-extension booked and we still plan to go ahead with it.  We could still cancel but we are not going to.  We have weighed everything here and decided to go ahead with it anyway.  We really did not think that it was more than the experience shared here.

Well at least now you know what to expect!  I hope you can use the info in this thread to better utilize the time available. I'd be curious to know if Viking will allow you to stay an extra night in the hotel, and let you somehow join the included excursion the next day - that's what I would have done if I'd have known. Biggest challenge I can see is, they 'block book' the hotels so the hotel doesn't have any record of you as an individual until the month before arrival, so coordinating that one extra night at the hotel, and making sure you don't have to suffer a room change, could be a challenge. I'd be curious to know what Viking say! 

4 hours ago, Mich3554 said:

Since I have mobility issues, ship travel makes it easier for me.  We have a land trip planned in Sept (which does include the Bordeaux River cruise) and am starting to dread the land portion as it is much harder on me.  At least renting a car ameliorates it some, but hauling luggage multiple places (even as light as we pack) is just harder.  

It is wonderful how you simply have to get yourself on the ship and after that, it's all taken care of!  Luckily, we're still very mobile so we don't have to rely on that.  One thought may be to really splurge on 'local assistance'.  Pay top dollar for guides and for 'transfers', and make sure they take care of everything. I've always avoided spending money on such things, but given the amount of money one spends on cruises, it may be 'in the budget'. Something to consider. 

On 4/11/2024 at 2:55 AM, CDNPolar said:

This is very interesting to me because we have this very pre-extension booked for March of 2025.

 

I have read your review against the information Viking provide, and without any illusions, Viking don't promise more than what you got.  The second day of the pre-extension it says that your "day is free to explore more of Bangkok" but what it does not tell you is that because of the time you would leave the hotel you would have to be up at 5am and out exploring to be back in time to get on the bus....

 

I am not speaking against you, I am simply comparing what you are bringing in reality to Viking's description of the pre-extension package and whether there is any value in purchasing this.

I can't say Viking out-and-out lied, but by saying that Day 2 is a 'free day to explore Bangkok' is certainly of dubious accuracy! 

On Day 1, we had to meet in the lobby at 8:00am for the 'briefing' (I took a photo of the instructions so I wouldn't forget), and we departed for the actual day 1 tour at around 9:00am (Grand Palace and Reclining Buddha). This meant we had to be up at around 6:30am for breakfast, which wasn't ideal since we didn't get to the hotel till 3am (not Viking's fault). Our tour ended with a 'lunch', and we had the afternoon / evening free - which was good. 

On Day 2, as you mention, we were supposedly 'free to explore Bangkok' but in reality, you had to be back at the hotel at 11am for the baggage ID, and then there wasn't much choice but to stick around for the 1pm departure to the ship. 

What really annoys me is, they didn't tell us any of this timing ahead of time, and thus didn't give us time to think or plan alternatives. There are three alternatives I would have considered; 1) stay longer in the city on day 2, and get my own transport to the ship in the evening, or 2) stay overnight in the city on day 2, and try to meet up with the 'included tour' on the 3rd day ('day 1' of the main cruise), or 3) stay overnight in the city on day 2 and ignore the 'included' day 1 main cruise tour, and just get a taxi to the ship before departure. 

Now, this is only my third cruise and I never anticipated all these logistical challenges, but this is the second time I've experienced bad timing with an 'extension', so from now on, I will dig deeply into the logistics and see if it's possible to get some flexibility with Viking; or - just ignore their extensions and work out my own plan. 

Your estimate of room costs for the Shangri-La are probably a bit high; Looking today on Hotels.com, I can get a good room for $200 USD for March 2025.  But let's assume $250 with fees/etc. I would have gladly paid the extra $250 and paid for a taxi to the ship, had I known in advance this was the plan. 

I'm most annoyed we had to leave Bangkok at 1pm to get to the ship; the ship didn't sail for another 24+ hours so why not transport us to the ship in the evening at least, and give us a 'day' in Bangkok?  I see from your copy/paste of the Viking description that they offer "... perhaps you would like to join a full-day optional tour to Ayutthaya, a UNESCO World Heritage Site." - that sounds like they are anticipating a later arrival at the ship for those people. 

On 4/11/2024 at 2:55 AM, CDNPolar said:

We purchased this because we thought we would want to see more of Bangkok than the one day of the ship's itinerary.

 

We are now going to look at this seriously and decide if we will keep this.

 

If we do on our own in CAD it would be approximatey:

Taxi (Pre-arranged) Airport to Shangri La - $200.00

Shangri-La Basic room 2 nights - $700.00

Transport to Cruise Terminal  - $200.00

One day tour in Bangkok - $200.00

 

We paid $1,600.00 CAD - To do on own will cost give or take $1,300.00 CAD not including any meals (Viking only include 2 breakfast).

 

No matter how you look at this, I think that it would cost us near the same and we don't have to consider booking any transfers.

I think your transportation estimates are very high - I can't imagine spending $200 for taxis from airport or to the cruise terminal. I would imagine the hotel would help you arrange such things reliably. 

On 4/11/2024 at 2:55 AM, CDNPolar said:

The transfer times back and forth to Bangkok are what they are.  I am not going to consider those.  However I don't want to spend 2.5 hours today travelling to the ship in the middle of the day and then back again tomorrow after boarding the ship.  That equates to 7.5 hours of total time on a bus that I could be spending in Bangkok.

This is the biggest craziness of all! 

On 4/11/2024 at 2:55 AM, CDNPolar said:

The one BIG thing that I might take from this is to stay at the hotel one additional night and board the ship a day later.  Wonder if this can be arranged where Viking take us back to the ship one day late.

 

 

You got this for $600 USD pp, and our cost is $799 CAD which is about right for the conversion from USD to CAD.  Now it is on the MVJ as $$1,299.00 CAD pp.  Nice price increase.  Definitely would not buy this now at the current cost.

 

Here is what is currently on MVJ

 

Extend Your Cruise with 2 Nights in Bangkok

From $1,299 Per Person

Overview

 

• 2 hotel nights in Bangkok (as shown or similar)
• 2 meals: 2 breakfasts (B)
• 1 guided tour: Grand Palace & Wat Pho
• Services of a Viking Host
• All transfers

Itinerary

Day 1 - Bangkok

Fly to Bangkok and transfer to your hotel. Depending on your arrival time, you may choose to relax or begin exploring the city on your own. A Viking Host is available to help you plan your time in Bangkok so you can make the most of your visit.

Day 2 - Bangkok

Spend the morning at your leisure. This afternoon, take a guided tour of the Grand Palace, once the royal residence of the Chakri Kings and an excellent example of an ancient Siamese court. Built in 1782, it was the center of power for more than 150 years. Continue on to Wat Pho, one of Thailand’s most well-known temples. Here, you will see a 150-foot-tall reclining Buddha statue, the largest in Bangkok. Finally, stop at a flower market and browse its large selection of orchids. (B)

Day 3 - Bangkok

Your day is free to explore more of Bangkok, or you may wish to do some shopping—Bangkok offers everything from colorful open air markets to sophisticated shopping malls. Consider visiting Chinatown for some of the city’s best-tasting fare or a farmers’ market to sample local food. See one of the city’s many museums or embark on a traditional longtail boat ride. Or perhaps you would like to join a full-day optional tour to Ayutthaya, a UNESCO World Heritage Site. (B)

Hotels

Shangri-La Hotel Bangkok

Located on the banks of the Chao Phraya River, close to the shopping and business districts, this contemporary hotel has six dining options and three bars, a spa and an outdoor pool set amid tropical gardens. Guest rooms combine Thai tradition with modern comfort and are spaciously appointed throughout. 

Wow - I see NOTHING there that would warrant the increase in price!  Amazing. 

On 4/11/2024 at 7:05 AM, Mich3554 said:

We are still on the Orion, got on in Bangkok, will get off in Vancouver.  
 

We did not fly directly to Bangkok, but flew to Bali so DH could dive for a couple weeks.  Then we took a flight to Bangkok.  We were there 4 days, on our own.  We stayed at the Okura hotel.  4 days was about $800 total, including a very good breakfast buffet.  Taxi to the hotel was inexpensive, as were local dinners.  We did catch a flight out to Chiang Mai to meet up with friends.  We had a car booked to take us to Laem Chang to meet the ship and I think it cost about $50 total.  Our 4 days in Bangkok, transport (not including the side trip) and food included probably cost us around $1000.  
 

Extensions provided by Viking are really not worth it.  We did it once, last year before the world cruise and it just was not a good value for our $$.  We could have stayed at the same hotel (or better) for less.  The only difference is that there is some research involved.  

We did our own 'pre-extension' to Japan for 5 nights and it was wonderful.  We stayed at the GranVia hotel in Kyoto for $300/night, and paid quite a bit for bullet trains, etc - but compared to Viking prices, it was an absolute bargain. Our meal prices were ridiculously cheap (but then, we enjoy eating at noodle bars, etc!). 

In truth, I'm starting to question the value proposition of the whole Viking cruise concept.  It seems to work out around $1,000 per day, for two.  I absolutely adore the dining options on the ship, but if you assume $300/night for the cabin, $300/day for the convenience of being transported between ports, that still leaves about $400 for food - and the food isn't 'that' good!  We planned our own 'land trip' through England and Scotland last year, staying at good hotels, eating really well, and renting a nice car, and I think it came out to about $500 / night. 

6 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

Not our experience at all.  We have had great variety of breads especially in the Chef's Table and Manfredi's.  Not sure what the World Cafe offers in bread for lunch and dinner because if it is not served to my table, I don't go looking for it.

I've always viewed buffets as places for the overweight to stock up on junk food, but World Cafe changed that. You can order Mahi Mahi, a steak, or a Tuna steak cooked to order at any time, plus their hot selections are generally very recently prepared - the turnover means everything is 'fresh' (as it were).  

On the last cruise, they were serving 'prime rib' at the carving station in World Cafe, and my piece was perhaps the best prime rib I've ever had - ever!  A couple of nights later, at 'The Restaurant', I ordered prime rib, and it was decidedly less enjoyable. It was ever-so-slightly over-cooked, but not enough to warrant sending back; the serving at the WC was simply perfect (and I could see that as soon as it was carved / served). 

I also discovered the 'noodle bar' at WC this trip. Every night, a selection of different noodle dishes (dan dan noodles, ramen, etc). This became a staple for me (especially as this was a South-East Asian cruise!).  On our last visit to The Restaurant, it took a long time for the desert to arrive, and when it did arrive, it wasn't that great. At WC, you can simply walk up and pick your dessert, and they are so small (perfectly sized) you can try a few without feeling guilty. I'm not a 'speed eater', but I do get frustrated sometimes by slow service. Being able to get up and choose your own dishes is sometimes a blessing. 

There's a great selection of bread in WC; it just all happens to be very similar to my taste - it's all slightly 'off white', suggesting a whole-wheat component perhaps. I'm all for healthy, whole-wheat breads in general but I just happen to adore the crunchy / fluffy texture of a typical French baguette with my dinner and that was simply not on offer anywhere - including Manfredi's. 

6 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

 

There are other comments here and there about the quality of Viking food declining, perhaps this is also an area of concern?

I've only been on 3 Viking cruises (2 Ocean, 1 River) and so far, I can't say I've noticed a decline.  I'm of the opinion that the food is one of the highlights of Viking cruises (excursions being the lowlight!). 

3 hours ago, WanderingBrit said:

I don't have any photos to refer to, but I thought that by the pizza station there were a variety of breads available in the World Cafe, no?

Oh, there's definitely variety of breads available - they just don't have the one thing I'm hoping for!  They even have a few items on display that say 'for display only' that look like they may hit the spot. 

1 hour ago, OneSixtyToOne said:

You need to take a cruise on an expedition ship. Their bakery is part of the World Cafe and it offers a daily variety of bread. The fresh pretzels 🥨 are delicious.

That DOES look good!  The item in the lower right corner looks exactly like what I'm hoping for! 

30 minutes ago, CCWineLover said:

I do agree with your first point - we most often eat at World Cafe as we are usually disappointed with the Manfredi's and The Restaurant.  At least at WC, if something isn't that great you can try multiple things without waiting to reorder from the Restaurants.

 

However, I do totally disagree with your 2nd point.  Perhaps you've been unlucky.  We also like French baguettes and crunchy firm crusts and fluffy white interiors.  However, unlike you, every cruise except one we've encountered just that at the World Cafe.  Absolutely love their baguettes.  Sometimes they are the long 18 inch kind and sometimes the 6 inch short ones.  But they are ALWAYS that nice crunchy firm crust and fluffy interior!  They are to die for!  Not as good as Paris, but still great!!   Next time I'll have to take pictures and a video of the crunching and pulling apart of the fresh fluffy interior!!  🙂

 

Darn, I must be unlucky!   I did ask, at the 'Restaurant', for a baguette, and it took a very long time for them to locate it and it was some sort of off-white product with an insipid crust.  I'll try again ...

I'm incredibly impressed by the food on Viking cruises. My attitude to buffets has been changed forever, and we ended up eating at World Cafe for 10 out of 14 nights recently, with just two (very enjoyable) dinners at 'The Restaurant', and two somewhat disappointing dinners at Manfredi's and Chef's Table. 

My one complaint is the bread!  Doesn't matter where you eat, it's always the same. I absolutely love French baguettes, and also Italian Ciabatta's and similar. All the bread on Viking seems to be some mushy off-white product with a soft crust.  I would give an arm and a leg for a crunchy firm crust with a fluffy white interior, but alas, this seems to be impossible. I asked for a baguette one evening, and after a LONG delay, was brought some soft-shelled, insipid off-white product. Is there any way to find decent white fluffy bread with a crunchy exterior? 

4 hours ago, John Bull said:

In many ways Cambodia is stuck in the 18th Century, and the poverty isn't because the economy has taken a dive - it's always been a very poor & backward country. Remember this was the country of Pol Pot & the Khmer Rouge, so the country went backwards when the neighbouring tiger economies were zooming forward.

 

When we visited Sihanoukville, in a pretty second-rate way it was Cambodia's playground, In the past decade or two Chinese investment accelerated that - but yes, it back-fired. 

We were there before the building work, and enjoyed our day in and around Sihanoukville.  Others felt that it was an awful port-of-call, but it's part of the world that we live in, it's an education how other people live, and we're glad that we went there.

We don't plan to go back anyway, but making it a Cambodian Macao would put us off whether the high-rises were shells or thriving

 

BTW Quite a few cruise ships stop there, perhaps more because it's conveniently located between Thailand & Vietnam. 

Yes, your overnight stop was probably because Phnom Penh (3 hours e/w) is hardly worth the travel in one day, plus two days also means that for those with deep pockets flight excursions can be arranged to Angkor Wat

 

JB 🙂

 

When were you there?  I would have loved to see it before the building boom/bust. 

It was certainly an education, and for that I was grateful. It got me reading more about Pol Pot/Khmer Rouge, and also, made me want to read more about the whole Chinese investment story. 

I saw a potentially similar situation in Vietnam, though less extreme; there were lots of what looked like stalled construction projects along the road between the port and downtown Saigon (HCMC), and then later, Ha Long Bay.  Ha Long Bay is clearly getting ruined by over-development; it's starting to look like a western city, with a totally out-of-place Ferris wheel, a cable car, and lots of high-rise hotels and low-rise 'vacation villages'. 

I didn't notice any 'stalled construction projects' in Bangkok, interestingly.  I realize that Bangkok is 'ahead' of the neighboring countries in terms of development, but it seems to have escaped the recent blight of failed projects. 

Despite all the setbacks, the people of Cambodia share the lovely 'mellow' attitude that you see in Thailand and Vietnam. 

Do you know how Sihanoukville compares to Siem Reap? We want to visit Angkor Wat at some point and Sihanoukville made me wonder what SR would be like.  

As an aside, I wonder what overseas tourists think about a visit to Las Vegas, if they manage to get 'off the strip'? I once drove randomly around Las Vegas, and once you get half a block from the 'strip', it can be pretty grim - broken streets, homeless encampments, scary sense of danger. 

6 hours ago, Peregrina651 said:

First, thank you for the heads up.

 

Second, please share with Viking directly everything you have shared with us here. TellUs@vikingcruises.com. Tell them everything just as you have shared here. They can't fix what they don't know is broken.

I made direct contact with the 'shore excursions director' (or whatever his title is) on the ship and got an email address for him; he asked me to write up my concerns and send to him. It wasn't his personal address, but an address for (I believe) the specific ship. I will cc the 'TellUs' address (which I hadn't heard about). 

6 hours ago, Peregrina651 said:

While I agree that 2 night extensions tend to be a waste, no matter where you are in the world, yours seemed to be particularly poorly organized and poorly thought out. Your arrival at the airport was certainly not up to Viking's standards. 

 

The normal protocol is not to punish those who have arrived on time. What normally would have happened was that the bus would have left for the hotel on time. Then, either you would have been asked to take a cab to the hotel (for which you would have been reimbursed once you boarded the ship) or a car would have been arranged to take you to the hotel. 

We had issues with missed flights joining a cruise in Venice last year and experienced pretty much what you described - a 'personal limo' to the ship.  In the case above, I guess a lot of people were on the same flight as us so they punished the 'other' guys. As I recall, they had booked the excursion to Siem Reap for Angkor Wat and had a REALLY early departure - like 5am or similar - so they were really messed up! 

6 hours ago, Peregrina651 said:

The transfer to the ship was also a disaster. Why on earth were were you not taken to the ship in time for lunch?? Failing that, it could very easily have been a full day tour with a lunch stop. It has been done elsewhere, why not here?

 

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here; the last thing we wanted was to be taken to the ship in time for lunch - that would have wasted even more of our time in Bangkok. I would have preferred an evening transfer to the ship (or next day transfer). But I did overhear one passenger complaining that we weren't going to be on the ship at their expected registration time - so I guess some people really do like to be on the ship as soon as possible, and don't care about the beautiful city they are in. 

This will likely be our last 'pre/post' excursion with Viking. A recent post-excursion to Prague (from Austria) was also badly handled. We left the ship at around 10am, but instead of taking us straight to Prague, we were taken to a mediocre small town along the way and given a few hours on our own for 'lunch'.  It was a Sunday and most shops were closed, and there were no interesting places to eat.  We finally hit Prague around 4pm, and got stuck in very heavy traffic.  We could have been in Prague by 1pm had they taken us straight there.