cr2000

1 hour ago, phuac said:

Sun Princess has been removed from the Port of Kotor port schedule for the rest of the summer.  

So while Princess has already updated the May/June Itineraries to show Bar instead of Kotor, expect the July-Sept sailings to reflect Bar later.  Probably after final payment is due for those cruises.  My guess is maybe in a week (Aug sailing payment due) to a month (Sept sailing) or so.

 

A representative involved in Port logistics for Montenegro has already stated that Sun Princess will have 8 sailings to Bar this year which coincides with the April-September number of times that Sun Princess was due in Kotor.  

 

I'm not sure it is due to the size of Sun Princess vs something economic related on the Montenegro side (ie spread tourism across more ports in Montenegro).  Those in the public won't know unless either authorities in Princess or Montenegro say something.  

 

But all signs are pointing to Bar right now for the rest of the year for Sun Princess.

And someone laughed at me when I suggested this was an intentional decision not to alert customers until AFTER final payment was due. They are essentially false advertising itineraries to keep bookings/revenue. Absolutely shameful, someone ought to be fired - both for miscalculating Sun Princess ability to ever enter Kotor and then also for perpetuating a lie to customers about intended stops (which they know are cancelled).

1 hour ago, Globaler said:

I will never sail a new ship within a one year period. Nothing but problems, broken promises and total disappointment. Too much money and so many other cruise ships and cruise lines. wow Princess has caused some major brand damage on this one.

It's basically theft on the part of Princess. Making false promises and having people pay up. The worst part is that a new ship rollout doesn't have to be this way. Look at RC Icon of the Seas. They hit a homerun with that ships rollout. Princess should have recognized they had numerous issues, put a pause on all guest sailings, and used their employees as "guests" for a few weeks to work out all the kinks. Instead paying customers are getting the shaft. Pulling Kotor (which I knew they would do) was the last straw for me. Princess knew they couldn't sail into that port when they cancelled it the first time but instead they strung people along for a few more weeks and substituted Bar which is basically a cargo port. Shameful.

1 hour ago, Sox Fan Cruiser said:

Bar is still Montenegro but I understand what you meant. 

Ah, yes, meant to say Kotor.

12 hours ago, StevenW said:

 

My 17June stop at Kotor, has been replaced in itinerary by Bar.

 

With Bar only about 30km from Kotor though, I'm hoping there will be a ship tour to Kotor.

I said that would happen weeks ago. Just another epic failure for the rollout of this ship - shame on Princess for lying to customers to begin with. Bar is an an absolute waste of a port stop. Zero comparison as a replacement for Montenegro.

4 hours ago, Sox Fan Cruiser said:

 

 

I did ask, and regardless of staying in a suite, no kids under the age of 16 are allowed in the Sanctuary.  One kid did come in to talk to his parents, but he was escorted in and escorted out by his dad.  He only stayed a little while.  The staff was very friendly to him.  They joked around with him and got him a soda but the parents obviously knew the rules. 

 

Well that's a deal breaker for me. I won't pay a suite premium and not be allowed to have our family together. Overall poor implementation by Princess for a ship (with Park 19) that seems to be enticing multigenerational families. They are falling behind the trend of MSC, Royal, and NCL of a ship within a ship concept for the ENTIRE family.

9 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

"OK.  But let's not tell anyone about this and continue to cancel Kotor at the last minute to protect bookings in hopes that no one figures this out."  When in reality, we all KNOW that the reaction would have been: "OK.  Let's figure out another solution.  Work the phones and find another suitable Adriatic port stop and have our public relations team work up an appropriate press release heralding the benefits of the new port(s) that we will be using instead."  Sometimes I really question whether people here really understand how a multi-billion dollar publicly traded company operates.  

Have you ever sat in on a c-suite meeting? Yes, that does happen, though not in such an obvious way/phrasing. It's quite common to protect sales at a publicly traded company until such a time when you have an alternate plan in place. We're not talking about a safety issue. If someone fouled up Kotor planning, Princess is not going to publicly admit it, and they won't make any abrupt changes until they have a "get well" plan together. My money says they miss the next stop in May, and it then gets pulled from all future itineraries.

6 hours ago, Sox Fan Cruiser said:

But the problem with your argument is that they cancelled the port before we even got on the ship.  A full five days before we were supposed to dock there. Are you telling me that they knew the weather conditions five days a head of time and made the call to not go there?

 

It’s the same with some Santoríni cancellations. There are too many ships in port and the cable car will be an absolute mess. We were the only ship in port yesterday and we walked down instead of standing there for 90 minutes. 

Exactly, he's just wrong. It was not related to weather, it was clearly some type of compliance and/or technical issue that prevented the ship from entering Kotor. I tend to think it's simply the ships physical size (would be the largest to ever enter the Bay of Kotor) though there has been speculation that it's tender related - possibly due to a ballast issue with the ship effecting water height and tendering operations.

And while I don't think Princess has deliberately misled passengers, I do think they didn't do ANY homework when adding that port to the itinerary - much like they have screwed up many other areas of the ships launch. And worse, I suspect they now know they won't call on Kotor but aren't pulling it from posted itineraries just yet because that could effect summer bookings.

2 hours ago, cruisinsince75 said:

According to the Kotor port schedule, the Sun was to be in Kotor on the 11th, again on May 6th, June 17, July 29, August 19, September 9th.  The Sun Princess at 175,000 tons is by far the largest ship on the port schedule.  http://www.portofkotor.co.me/

 

I suspect, as previous posters have pointed out, is the ship is too large to navigate the channel.  Celebrity Edge is slightly shorter and slightly narrower than the Sun, and is 140,000 tons and only calls on Bar, not Kotor for every Montenegro stop this season.

Shame on Princess for selling these cruises with a port they knew they'd never be able to call upon. We're traveling later this year, if they miss the May 6th stop in Kotor I'm cancelling our booking, Bar is an absolute waste of a port stop.

2 minutes ago, Amy G said:

How many times has the port been canceled so far? I was really hoping to go to Kotor this July.

I believe the Sun Princess Maiden visit to Kotor was scheduled for April 11th. So this would be the first time it's been cancelled. The next scheduled stop in Kotor is early May.

22 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Of course it may not be Princess that caused the cancellation per se, it could be that the local port authorities aren't happy about a ship that size going through that channel. The channel has roads either side and damage to one of those could be serious, particularly on the western side where there doesn't appear to be an easy alternative route. 

 

But Princess should have done its homework before releasing itineraries that included Kotor unless, of course, it was a last minute local decision. 

Looking at the satellite maps it does appear to be pretty narrow, but to your point, Princess should have done their homework. Hopefully Princess does the right thing and clarifies this for future trips and gives customers the option to cancel/change. If Bar is going to be the new stop, then the itineary becomes far less desirable and they should adjust the market value as such. Just another item in a list of mishaps on this ships less than stellar launch.

I'd be curious what you find out when onboard with regards to the real reason they cancelled out of Kotor. I wouldn't take anything a crew member says as true, but if you have access to one of the ships officers they might be willing to be upfront about the situation. Not sure how open Princess is with offering tour access to the bridge, but that's also another way to speak with some of the ships officers and get the real scoop.

Bar is a lousy port compared to Kotor, not even a close second or third. They could have continued just a bit further up and substituted Dubrovnik, but even that doesn't match what it's like to sail into Kotor. I'm betting this is NOT a tender issue rather it's a channel size issue which means they will pull Kotor from all itineraries - the question is whether they are honest and do it upfront, or tell people last minute on each cruise. There's no way Princess is just figuring this out now, it's false advertising on their itineraries to get people to book imo. They are already screwing people on Santorini and now they are doing it on Kotor as well. The next scheduled stop in Kotor is May 6th, if they "miss" that stop or pull it from itineraries I'm cancelling my cruise for later this year. So many epic fails on the rollout of Sun Princess, someone ought to be fired at corporate.

So what’s the truth on this port? Is it really just an issue with tenders like Santorini, or is there a miscalculation by Princess on the ships ability (due to size and LNG requirements) to call on this port? Anyone onboard have the real story? Any truth to this port being pulled permanently from Sun Princess itineraries?

7 minutes ago, andreakul said:

I agree that when Park19 is in full swing that it might be distracting but the photo from previous post is the bar and entry area of chairs that aren't padded. The photos I show are beyond the entry and there is a bit of a buffer from the Park 19 area with the white metal shading and space away from the entry on deck 18 aft.t. Not ideal but there is a degree of separation from the play deck above and the main pool and cabana area of the Sanctuary. Hope this helps.

True, but that area by the pool has a small subset of the total lounger space, the bulk of seating is directly under the playground. With concerns around space limitations already, you're now funneling guests seeking a 'sanctuary' into a space with even less chairs. You'll have to be up at 4am to get one of those spots. I honestly think Princess is trying to move away from an adult only sanctuary and towards a dedicated sundeck/pool exclusively for suite guests, At the very least, suite parents will be in this space, with their kids yelling down to them from the playground above. At that point, you might as well just drop the age requirement. Just totally broken IMO. They need to just concede and move to the Royal/NCL/MSC model and not try to have it both ways.

That pictures speaks a 1000 words. Either there was a major oversight when building the ship, or "The Sanctuary" was never really intended to be a "Sanctuary" in a traditional sense, but rather a dedicated deck lounge space with pool for Suite guests only to enjoy, much like Royal Carribean has on Icon or NCL has on Prima/Viva.

You don't suspend a full size playground above an area you intend to be an adult only area. In time, Princess will realize this error and transition this space to a dedicated Suite area for anyone (multi-generational families, children) staying in a suites to use - same model as Royal and NCL. Non-suite guests would be crazy to spend $99 for a relaxing secluded experience, only to find kids dangling above their heads all day long..

1 minute ago, Familycruzer11 said:

Since it seems the Sanctuary is the only Adults Only space on Sun, I don't expect that to change. I agree when booking it should be made clear that the space is for 16+ when booking families.  There also seems to be plenty of other space throughout the ship for families, and kids.  It is not unreasonable for kids to want to be with other kids in the clubs, and parents can have some alone, adult time.  There are many other Suite perks (like concierge lounge, Signature restaurant,) that all family members can still enjoy. 

I don't disagree, but the issue you have is that paying a suite premium confers benefits of a private pool without crowds. Many families will happily pay for that amenity, but excluding children of those families (who also may enjoy a crowd free pool) seems problematic. Royal, NCL, and MSC offer similar suite venues and allow it to be a family inclusive experience. I think Princess has a real marketing issue here, particularly given they added Park 19 to attract families to this ship. It's just not in alignment with the direction of the cruise industry.

2 minutes ago, happy cruzin said:

The other side of that - just as sticky - how do you market the Sanctuary as adult only then allow kids - even if they are in a suite?? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Agree, I think Princess has some work to do here. Logically the Suite Sun Deck should be for ANYONE regardless of age staying in a suite. That Sun Deck is clearly dedicated to Suite guests. It gets tricky with The Sanctuary, because now Princess is making it free to all Suite guests, and only selling passes if there is availability to non-Suite guests. In that sense, you have to question who "owns" that Sanctuary space (and is it even "The Sanctuary" anymore). Is it Suite guests that lay claim to it, or all guests on board? If it's the former, then you're back to excluding paying guests in a suite from utilizing space they paid for just because they brought family with them. How Princess plays this will certainly effect bookings, it all comes down to which direction generates the most $. On Royal and NCL, suite guests get their own private space - and their children are welcome to join them, will Princess take a different direction or move in the direction of the cruise industry?

Thanks for doing this, would really love some clarification on the Signature Sundeck for families staying in a suite. I can understand how the Sanctuary might be adult only, but I don't see how Princess can market suites to families, but then break those families apart if they want to sit together on the Signature Sundeck. Seems like really bad public relations and marketing to do that given the ship is targeted towards families with kids given the addition of Park 19. 

3 hours ago, CanadianBurger said:

Definitely not a King. I’d say a regular Queen is the size. There’s a bit of an illusion where the bed looks short, but because the wall is recessed where the bed is, it’s definitely a normal length. I’m 6’2” and didn’t feel it was short. 

Thanks. I was thinking more in terms of width. It seems the definitions of bed sizes vary between Europe and the US. I was trying to figure out what size twin. Apparently in Europe a twin bed is 35"x79" while in the US it's 36"x75". Push two twins together in the US and you'd have 70"x79" or in Europe it'd be 72"x75". It's confusing because in either case you'd have a bed closer to a King than a Queen, which makes me wonder if Princess is using smaller size twin beds?

I'm wondering if someone might be able to clarify/confirm the bed size in reserve mini-suites?

Princess says the Queen size bed is comprised of two twin beds pushed together. However, Royal Carribean also pushes two twin beds together but they call it a King. So I'm wondering... does Princess use smaller twin beds?

I'd love to get a measurement on an actual bed in a mini-suite if anyone happens to be onboard. Probably could use the measure function on an iPhone to get a measurement since I doubt anyone is traveling with a tape measure. Thanks! 🙂

Incredible thread you put together, this should serve as a comphrensive resource for anyone sailing Sun Princess. I hope someone from Princess reaches out to you and offers you some type of compensation (maybe a free cruise!) for all you've done. Thanks!

Would you have any pictures of the inside of the Signature Dining Room and the Reserve Dining Room? I've only seen limited shots mostly from the outside of the restaurants looking in. Thanks.

Haven’t seen many pictures of kids on the ship seems like a mostly older crowd. Any sense how much that may change as it moves into the summer season?

1 hour ago, CanadianBurger said:

Wandered around both levels of Horizons today. The far aft area is the only place on the ship where you can feel side-to-side motion, enough so that even today my wife wouldn’t be able to sit back there. It’s glass-smooth everywhere else. Also found the chef’s table on 7. 
 

 

 

 

 

I wonder if that side to side motion is also prominent in aft rooms and suites? Would seem if you can feel it pronounced on lower decks it’ll be worse up in rooms above?

Also, based on the pictures, I’d argue

that the main dining room has far a nicer atmosphere than the reserve or signature restaurants. Is that just pictures or does it seem that way in person as well?

14 hours ago, CanadianBurger said:

We got back at 3pm and there was zero line to board. By 4:30, there was a huge queue stretching outside the terminal building. The X-ray scanners and magnetrons were inside the port building. Nothing to do at the ship but scan your medallion. 
 

Don't Reserve and Signature members get priority embarkation and de-embarkations at all ports?