mcship

3 hours ago, SCX22 said:

I’m going to throw out a very unpopular opinion…

 

I would like to see all cruise lines, not just Princess, go to direct booking only. Cruising is the last travel segments to not adapt to this.  The airlines deal with many more passengers and are able to handle it.  The airlines did this a long time ago when UX/UI was developed enough for bookings to be manipulated 100% by passengers online and allowed for and it decreased airfare prices because they no longer had to go through a middleman, the TA, who had to get paid commission.  It helped that IATA made electronic tickets compulsory so the airlines were able get rid of physical airline offices and the manpower required to run them.

 

Getting rid of the TAs means no more commission to be paid and would trickle down to lower cruise fares.  It would take a larger initial IT investment, but would pay off in the long run.

 

Only stating this because many are giving opinions on how they don’t want to pay more, but aren’t offering suggestions to cut costs.

It will happen.  I use a TA for NCL, and did for my upcoming Princess, because free grats on the Princess.  NCL it is cheaper thru TA, and free grats.  Carnival on the other hand, cheaper (by just a touch) to use their system.  Since Princess IS Carnival, I would expect that to carry over, but may also be dependent on the PAX.  If most Princess book via TA, they would be careful in yanking that out from under the TA.  But, cutting fare by 50 bucks vs TA, would drive many to the web site.

 

3 hours ago, startedwithamouse said:

This isn't real estate.  They can change things as stated in their T&C that YOU, the guest, agrees to in your cruise contract. 

 

These are cruise ships which sail under flag of convenience. 

 

 

Yes, that would be the "billion words" part I referenced.

2 hours ago, ldtr said:

Just to be clear did everyone  that purchased the FAS program prior to the change get the old term honored.  Basically they got the terms that were in place for the FAS at the time when they purchased it.

 

Or did everyone  that had booked a cruise prior to the change get to purchase the FAS after the change and get the pre change terms and prices?

 

FAS is done at time of booking.  Not really an ad-on.  You either book "sail away" or FAS.  (FAS premium was not out yet).

old FAS had - among other things - 3 specialty dining.  new FAS dropped that to 2.

People with old FAS got 3.

They did not lose a dinner just because the terms changed.

The wifi package changed too, and the old FAS got the old package.  Old was 250 minutes (yea, minutes are stupid, but that is what they had) per booking.  New was 150 per person.   If on the old, you had the 250 total.

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

One claim the same about many other things over the years. Nothing new. 

When NCL changed their FAS program, people who had bought under the old (3 dinners) got their 3 dinners.  New bookings got 2.  It is not difficult.

1 hour ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Gambler?   You're complaining about the changes regarding a few bucks yet you are the recipient of a gambler rate.  You have zero legs to stand on complaining about the changes since you get a fantastic reduced price fare. 

Now, start paying what the majority of people pay and your complaint will have more merit.

The complaint if not about the $$.   it is the principle.  If it were $0.01 it would be an issue.

I am in real estate.  If the seller fails to disclose a 20 dollar fee to the HOA, the seller has to pay.  Even if the HOA changed the fee the day before, and the seller had no say in the matter.  Because that is what was agreed to.  20 bucks on a half million is totally immaterial.  But it matters - in principle.   If the seller finds out during the process, and discloses, it gives the buyer an opportunity to cancel.  Yes, over 20 bucks (no, in reality nobody is going to do this, but could).  that is how a contract works.

Princess said the fare includes oceanNow and pizza from alfredos.  They absolutely can change that going forward.  but need to keep it for those who already booked.  it was part of the "contract"  (and yes, I know, their legal team has a billion words saying otherwise, so "legally" they can do it, I am speaking logically)

3 minutes ago, SCX22 said:

 

This would mean none of the mass market cruise lines have good customer service because all of them engage/have engaged in the same practice.

 

The choice would be to move to more niche cruise lines or ride it out.

I dont disagree there.  

Worst part of all of this, is that is soooooooo simple to properly manage, but they dont.  From a human perspective having 1000 different fare categories, packages, etc is overwhelming, so they think it is "hard".  From a system design perspective it is childs play, so easy and trivial.  But management rarely understands - and that is well beyond just cruise lines.  

52 minutes ago, ldtr said:

The point is that all of the increases have been have been independent of booking dates. for some one could prepay. if one wasn't aware or did not prepay they got the new amount did not matter when they booked.

 

In these cases no way to prepay so everyone gets the prices. but Princess has been consistent price increases on optional items are not tied to booking dates. Notj ust for these but other increases as well.

It is not "optional items".  They were included in the base fare (pizza and oceanNow).  If a company can arbitrarily change the terms of your purchase, then why bother?  Yes, in the fine print, some of this is covered from a lawyer perspective.  But lawyering up is not good customer service.

 

26 minutes ago, startedwithamouse said:

Better be quick if you leave your pool chair go to the buffet! LOL

Chairs will only be included in the PlusPlus84.523 package.

3 minutes ago, Oxo said:

Do you really think with the survey any cruise line would not implement something that would increase profits? Just like all the surveys we fill out when we end our cruise. LOL

"increase profits"

They have to get back to profit first.  Right now they are not forecast to do that until 2024.   Current quarter is looking estimated positive, but not enough to pull the whole year up.

11 minutes ago, ldtr said:

But they have. Everything that one has paid for. The old packages, gratuities, internet, approved obc, etc. specialty dining, Excursions, etc. All that one has paid for in advance are honored.

 

If one has not paid in advance of the implementation date, pay the new price totally independent of when one booked. In this case there was nothing one could prepay for. So nothing to.lock in before implementation date.

 

Princess is actually being consistent. Booking date does not matter for optional items. if one can prepay and does before implementation date they can avoid the increases for some items.

The OceanNow, being part of the standard offering, but no longer being free is apparently a major sticking point for folks.  That and pizza (which I don't understand, but anyway).    It would have been easy to do it the same way as gratuity increases.  So if you are fully paid by X (even if that means you pay in full early) then you still get oceanNow and pizza free.  If you wait past X, you do not.   Or they could have simply had folks choose to make their deposit non-refundable by X, and "lock in" the free pizza.  There are a bunch of very simple things they could have done, which again, would not appease everyone, but would reduce the number.

Same could be said for everything.    

6 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Not unusual for cruise lines to changes prices on optional items without grandfathering. As far as gratuities they will honor the old price for those that prepay by the announced implementation date. Those that do not prepay pay the new price even if they booked prior to the increase.

 

Same with other changes, internet, obc changes etc.

That was my point.  They could easily do the same for all of the changes.  Gratuities are the exact same as anything else.  This would be the better approach, in that it would give folks warning.   You would still have people griping (because people), but less of it. 

14 minutes ago, whitecap said:

But many times, it's not just what they are doing as how they are doing it.  Lets be hones here, the way Princess has implemented this is horrible. 

Agreed.  Easy enough to make the changes going forward.  Or announce that if not fully paid by X, etc.

Just like the pre-paid gratuities.  When those have gone up, across lines, if you have already paid by X date, you get the current/old rate.  After that , the new rate kicks in.  Simple enough to do that for these changes too.  Paid in full by X, you get free pizza.  Wait until after X, and you do not.  If you have plus paid pre-X the pizza does not count as a casual, after X it does.  This is TRIVIAL design.

23 minutes ago, ldtr said:

That changed earlier this year when they sit the Holland America Group. Jan Swartz is nolonger over any brands and the individual brand head now report direct to Josh.

Yep, you are correct, they restructured that in May/June.

Good.  There is WAY to much overhead

Just showing how they don't pay attention, the bio for Padgett says he still reports to Jan.  You would think they would fix that right away.  Me, I would be firing the person in charge of the web site (this is not an IT thing, it is simple content).  If you have to be told to do the obvious...

14 hours ago, LittleFish1976 said:

Just looked at his LinkedIn page; he seems to like the idea of himself as an inventor. As well as being 'focused on creating "Game Changing" Experiences through the fusion of Creative, Technology and Operations.'

 

Not sure people are that happy about having their 'game' changed for them in this way.

Padgett is a brand manager.    He reports to Jan Swartz, another brand manager over Holland America Group, who in turn reports to Josh Weinstein the CEO.  They can put all the fake titles they want on people, but "brand manager" is the one they should have.  It is like a bank, where everyone has "vice-president" titles. 

Josh Weinstein has been in place for a year (August 2022).    So a year.  Needless to say, the changes are going to continue and/or ramp up for quite a while.

And at the end of the day, they all "report" to Micky Arison who is not going anywhere, since his father Ted started the company.  I use quote on "report" because chair of the board is supposed to be out of the day to day operations.  But one does not do well by crossing the chairman.  But, Micky is 74 yrs old.  When he steps down, who knows.  His son Nick is the CEO of the Miami Heat (which Micky owns).  Would he come over to Carnival?  That would be quite a leap NBA to Cruise Industry, but who knows.

9 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

Does not seem to me to be more complicated than what they can already do: know if you have the benefits of Plus-$50 or Plus-$60 or Premier $75 or Premier $80.

It would not be complicated.  They could have 1000 different programs.  Buy X, your medallion is run, it charges correctly.  This is elementary level system design.

Now, from a customer service perspective, the person at the desk, trying to explain to Bob why his package is different than John - over and over and over.  That could be a real issue.

1 hour ago, Steelers36 said:

I don't know that I would be blaming Oracle - they have great database software and applications.  IDK all the situation of course, but it is more likely a people resource issue and not the database software. 

 

I gather you are stating that Cap Gemini is now the provider of IT resources for Ocean project?  If so, I would say that this is at least the second large IT resource company that I am aware of PCL using.  It is certainly a common thing that many companies do - hire on one of the largest 5 or so IT outfits on the basis that they are professionals and do this all the time, etc.  Who knows if they had any experience in the area.  What these companies do is bring some all-stars during pre-sales and then the project is largely staffed with lower-end experience staff or overseas resources and managed by one or two more experienced types.  They have ways to bump up billable hours as that is a goal.  I worked with more than one of the big players on projects in my career (not as an employee) and I was least impressed with the encounter with Cap Gemini, but of course that is based on one encounter and a relatively small number of their resources.  One of my best projects occurred with a large US organization where one of the "Big Five" had been fired and they re-staffed the project with all independents.  This was largest project I ever worked on and there were about 100 of us and about 100 of the organization's own employees also involved.

 

There are a lot of boutique consulting firms that can dance circles around the big players.  But, like trying to find a great TA, it can be a process.  There is an old saying in IT:  "No one gets fired for going with IBM".

Oracle database is good.  But the app space?  Not so much.  But yes, choosing them is a "you dont get fired" choice.

14 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

If you share your log in credentials with every other passenger on the ship, then every passenger on the ship could use what you paid for, just one person using a single device at a time, but it could be a different device each time for that person.

Right.  But the way the package reads, it would imply that for two people, you would get two logons, since the plus package is 60 per person, and their details of the pricing "value" shows the wifi package.  Yes, if you were to just buy one wifi package, then certainly, it would be for one person (one logon).  But looks like "plus" gets a wifi per plus (so a couple would get two wifi packages).  If premier, they would get two packages at 4 devices each - who carries 8 devices on a ship?????

And checking the T&C - it reads"Wi-Fi included for one device per guest."   or  for premier "Wi-Fi included for 4 devices per guest." 

6 minutes ago, NoWhiners said:

 

Not alarmed, just uncertain how far their incompetence will go 😁

Cap Gemini outsourcing.   But, compared to NCL (oracle systems), CCL is perfect.  NCL systems are horrible, but if you have ever worked with oracle data systems, that should be no surprise.

2 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

Princess offers two options for the Wi-Fi.

First is a package which allows the use of one device at a time. Can be used by many people, but only one device at a time.

 

Second is a package with allows the use oif up to four devices at one time. All four can be used by one person or can be charged with as many other people as you want, just no more than four devices at a time.

 

So when they are pointing out the "one device per person", they are just indicating the option for once device at a timer.

 

 

 

Dont think that is correct.  the per person would imply that two people could both use it, limited to one device at a time each.  Yes, you could potentially log out / on and use multiple devices for your personal log on (maybe, depends on how they set it up, but it works that way on the mother ship of carnival)

42 minutes ago, mcship said:

Question.

For the plus package, the 2 desserts per day, and the 2 fitness classes.   I assume that is per person, not per booking.  Since everything else on the list is per person (gratuity, drinks, etc).  But, they specifically call out the wifi as one device per person - that is the only item they specifically call out as per person.  

Note, I cant see me eating 2 special desserts per day anyway, but like to know.

Never Mind.  I found the T&C.  It is per person, as expected.  Now I have to eat 2 desserts per day - ugh, better start dieting now!

Question.

For the plus package, the 2 desserts per day, and the 2 fitness classes.   I assume that is per person, not per booking.  Since everything else on the list is per person (gratuity, drinks, etc).  But, they specifically call out the wifi as one device per person - that is the only item they specifically call out as per person.  

Note, I cant see me eating 2 special desserts per day anyway, but like to know.

6 hours ago, Sprocket said:

Our email referenced our upcoming cruise on the Discovery.  No Vines on there so I am guessing that’s why it wasn’t specifically mentioned.

 

The information was geared towards the changes in dining I don’t anticipate there will be any change to the shipping of the Medallions, especially since they are testing sending them outside of the US.

Yea the "such as" is misleading.  We are on the Enchanted next year, and Salty Dog was not in my email.  But both vines, and Salty Dog are included:

https://www.princess.com/news/news_releases/2023/07/princess-adds-casual-dining-exclusive-service-delivery-and-more-to-plus-and-premier-packages-with-no-price-increases.html

We are taking the miracle in sep, same itinerary. 

Thanks for posting the fun times!!!!

By chance do you know where and when the meet and mingle was held?

THANKS!!!!  We sail in two weeks, this is great!!!

By chance do you remember where and when the Meet and Mingle was held???

Bumping this thread up in hopes someone can answer my question in the post directly above as we are cruising next week.

 

Thank you in advance.

If you are referring to to bamboo, I do not know. If you are referring to the town beach, aka turtle beach it is very close, cheap, clean. See my earlier review and maps to get to the beach.