InGearX

12 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

A Captain's decision is not final, any more than a police officer's decision about a crime is final, or a lawyer's decision about a crime is final.  The Captain has to uphold Bahamian law, whether he likes it, or the company likes it, or not, or he can lose his license (earned over many years) and be held financially responsible for any mistakes.

 

Sorry, still don't understand how if your mother had cruised "many times" she believed that it was a "merry house party", any more than you would consider a hotel to be a "merry house party".  This is patently ridiculous.

 

Yes, ship's security can, and will search passenger's luggage, if there is probable cause.

 

And, as I've said, since this cruise is still ongoing, you need to seek legal representation as soon as possible, if you really think this case has merit, and the lawyer will be able to contact the FBI for any filings with them, and to obtain any evidence or documentation that is available.  Since you have not commented on my recommendation to seek legal representation, it appears that you don't want to possibly front money for resolution of this incident, but only to get money from the cruise line, and so from my experience working on cruise ships, this leads me to believe this case has many holes in its claims.

 

a captains decision is final at that point in the water

 

what ever happens later ... happens later

 

if he says they are searching a cabin they are ... if he says they are not ... they are not...

 

they did approach the captain at the meet and greet about this and he said do not worry we will handle this ... thks was on day 4 or so

 

so head of security again apologized and said they will do their best

 

at this point a formal request to see CCTV is made

awaiting for a formal decline

 

all possible info is collected...

have no idea to whom the claim can be made ... if ever ...

 

you are right about the FBI ... will call them up ... seek their help .. i imagine they have other things ... much like NYPD if you call about theft ... eventually someone will question and cause more stress and make some report ...

 

thank you everyone ...

 

 

 

was trying to fix the readability of my post

 

and i got: This comment can no longer be edited. It may have been moved or deleted, or too much time may have passed since it was posted for it to be edited.

 

😕

 

and can no longer be edited 😕

 

so here here it is...

 

PS: I wanted to say my last post on here ...

 

 

>But also rather dis-jointed, and perhaps posted in haste.

yes it is true

i am traveling on business ... now i have only my ipad ... posting this and replies from it ... sorry for formatting ...

mom is on the ship

and sent half a doze facebook messenger 1 minute recordings on this asking for advice ... as you might know WiFi is limited...

it is best info i could put together ...

 

yes a person can afford to get one good item/coat ...

 

i shouldn't have ever mentioned the exact price ... as that put people on a hostile ...

================== 

 

my most important replies

 

 

 

#1 i feel so bullied

and bad needing to defend on here

 

i didn't expect to be accused

 

i shouldn't have posed

 

i guess if it is not about merry good times... then it is not welcome on here

 

OMG psychologically that is probably what it is

 

it is like i would tell a patient that eating that cake full of sugar is bad for them while they were eating it ... and its their favorite cake ... which cruising is for many of us ... a blessed safe .. sacred experience ..... it should be

 

i wanted to ask advice

 

now i even though it might of have been good to share to give other heads up on any cruise .. anywhere ...

 

but i wish i never did

 

 

================== 

 

#2 

 

>gives the cruise line the right to search any cabin at any time...

 

exactly give a right ... but does not mandate for a search ... nor or mandate for any protocol to be followed

 

and that is right - a captains decision is final

so if it is not of greater convenience of the ship (and i understand it and respect that), the crew, the passengers

 

a loss for one is acceptable over a loss for many

 

so say they show my mom that other guests took the coat on CCTV

my mom would request that they follow international law or US law

 

and perhaps just perhaps it would require by law to put that guest behind bars on the ship for theft of (again approximately) $2000 + $2000 items

 

how does that make NCL look? maybe even some newspaper would love to make a joke out of it ... or say tonight show...

 

maybe just maybe that even opens them up to a lawsuit - because as you know there are dime a dozen (no wait for free) trigger happy lawyers ready to find a cause and take the case... to settle outside the courtroom... i am referring to seek compensation for a thief if are "mistreated"

 

this reminds me of a story where a father stabbed a thief in his own house at night .... and was sentenced ...

 

(they even said: sure if it was a missing child for instance it would be another case ... but this theft is best to just hope things turn up )

 

again i wasn't there

i wish i heard and could post an audio recording of what exactly they told my mom

 

if she even had it

 

and it would be illegal probably for her to record

or for me to post

 

which makes me even wonder about this post ...

 

so by trying to explain this ... i am begining to see and understand how complex this is ...

 

it is better for NCL not to take any action

because any action

could make drama ... and the situation worse

much worse for NCL ... hence what has happened ...

 

 

my replies chronologically 

================== 

================== 

==================

at dear @CruiseGal999

>"I do not believe you when you say that security can NOT view their OWN security footage.  That is #1 where this falls apart. "

i never wrote that

it was a misunderstanding / loss in what i meant / What you interpreted .... likely my mistake as i should have explained something like this in as much detail as i could

what i meant was that my mom requested to see CCTV with them!
but the declined this request

the security watched this on their own

my mother then made a formal request in writing
and requested a formal reply in writing as to why not

I am not sure i guess back home in much of US a victim can not just request to see CCTV

a police officer / detective must ...?

anyone knows the details

do citizens have this right? i guess it must go though legal process..

well here is the thing CCTV would make it clear
and clean

#1 if my mom walked into a room with a coat
#2 walked out with nothing
#3 new guests come
#4 my mom shows up - and the guests claim they do not know anything

it would implicate them
it would cause drama
NCL or anyone wouldn't want drama
they just want everything to be dandy on the sail ...

or possibility B
it shows a stewart walking out with the coats
what then
also drama

so NCL quietly keeps this CCTV to them selves

and no NYPD will likely not be allowed to see it
will they?

do citizens lose their rights on a cruise?

==================

 

addressing 2nd and 3rd point:

>Secondly, WHY would someone/anyone put their personal belongings in a cabin that was NOT their own cabin!  That doesn't compute ... on any level."

again i should have went into delicate details on this
my mom and her friend waited on a pier
were both hungry ...
wanted to eat ASAP
they found their cabin to be locked

so they found ANY cabin that was not
and made a BIG mistake - i guess  thinking they were at a merry house party where everyone is your good neighbor

==================
==================

@Flatbush Flyer

>Two(!) $2000 coats and they're on an NCL cruise? 👀

As mentioned by the previous poster, the entire story sounds bogus. 

i didn't get the exact exact prices of each coat and prices
yes i guess i should have somehow looked up the exact price for coat A
and B
all i know that it was ball park range

so all people who are NCL can not afford a coat?

==================
================== 

 

@sloopsailor

i wasn't there

but i worked for many banks and we made errors in millions and millions of dollars
all the time

just like say a self driven car can make a mistake ...

humans make errors
humans who program machines make errors
machines make errors
exceptions can happen all the time...

i wish i knew why their door was locked or what the exact reason was ..

i wasn't there ...

==================
==================

@John Bull

thank you 
thank you dear John Bull

yes i wasn't there

but then none of us were ..

i am missing exact details ..

but i was just curious of general advice

what can be done
what should be done

legally
morally
ethically

>And on the matter of "we're not permitted to view our CCTV", 

again i didn't write that

i wrote that

>mom asked to review the CCTV (with them) but security said it is not that simple as it is in US

meaning they have their own rules
a passenger is not allowed to see CCTV

or you might be right
that section was off / full / cam broken / on hold / in port / HD maintenance ... etc ... a dozen or two other reasons
when you are running hundreds or thousand+ cameras ... i wouldn't be surprised

==================
==================

 

@CruiseGal999

my mother sailed many times and never had a problem
and was under the impression i guess that it is one good house party

on top of that a secure house party
with CCTV - apparently worthless

with security - who are also apparently worthless - who in a long talk confessed that even if they did find the perpetrator law would forbid them from taking direct action ... lawsuit might arise ...

==================
she would not leave say her phone or rings or other valuables

but a huge huge coat

==================

i feel so bullied
and bad needing to defend on here

i didn't expect to be accused

i shouldn't have posed

i guess if it is not about merry good times... then it is not welcome on here

OMG psychologically that is probably what it is

it is like i would tell a patient that eating that cake full of sugar is bad for them while they were eating it ... and its their favorite cake ... which cruising is for many of us ... a blessed safe .. sacred experience ..... it should be

i wanted to ask advice

now i even though it might of have been good to share to give other heads up on any cruise .. anywhere ...

but i wish i never did
 

==================
==================
@chengkp75

>This is truly where the story doesn't hold water.  Not only Bahamian law, but international maritime law, and even the cruise line ticket contract, gives the cruise line the right to search any cabin at any time, with or without the passenger's consent or knowledge.  

 

================== 

My reply:

yes exactly
a captains decision is final
so if it is not of greater convenience of the ship (and i understand it and respect that), the crew, the passengers

a loss for one is acceptable over a loss for many

so say they show my mom that other guests took the coat on CCTV
my mom would request that they follow international law or us law

and perhaps just perhaps it would require by law to put that guest behind bars for theft of (again approximately) $2000 + $2000 items

how does that make NCL look

maybe just maybe that even opens them up to a lawsuit - because as you know there are dime a dozen (no wait for free) trigger happy lawyers ready to find a cause and take the case... to settle outside the courtroom...

(they even said: sure if it was a missing child for instance it would be another case)

again i wasn't there
i wish i heard and could post an audio recording of what exactly they told my mom

if she even had it

and it would be illegal probably for her to record
or for me to post

so by trying to explain this ..m i am begining to see and understand how complex this is ...

it is better not to take any action
because any action
could make the situation worse
much worse for NCL

==================

but thank you for the info on
>Finally, crimes against US citizens, while on a foreign flag cruise ship, while the ship is in US waters or in international waters, must be reported to the FBI, and the US has claimed extra-territorial jurisdiction over these crimes.

==================

@ Flatbush Flyer
>But, everyone does have to admit that even the "well-to-do" probably wouldn't have/take a $2k coat on a cruise ship mostly populated by very very budget-conscious folks.

friend was visiting NYC from Europe - it is cold - yes with a good coat
and cruise is just part of it

so sorry that they picked a cheap cruise on which they can not go on with best coats they had

==================
@capriccio

>Wow, I am used to your condescending comments about mass market cruise lines, but can you get any more insulting by implying that 'very budget-conscious' folks are more likely to steal from their fellow passengers? Or maybe you are saying the 'well-to-do' wouldn't want to make the rest of the passengers feel bad?  Either case is a new low.

thank you 
thank you 

==================

@George C

thank you 

==================

>But I guess the first few responses have put them off.

Possibly for life.:classic_sad:

yes yes

thank you 

==================
@clskinsfan
>Maybe the coats will magically reappear at some point. After all IF their neighbors have the coats it is not like they can go walking around the ship with them on.

but apparently nothing prevents those folks from walking out with them in their cases

no on can or will search them

==================

41 minutes ago, champagne123 said:

Mmmmm.......interesting.....to say the least.

also keep in mind somone might come back

 

start reading replies 

 

and be pulled away for work

for an hour or two or 6 

and then fall asleep from exhaustion ...

 

but do not think i can sleep well after replies like this

 

shocking and sad

 

1 hour ago, donaldsc said:

IF this post is for real and I doubt it and if they really brought 2 fur coats which I also doubt, what they did was so off the wall stupid that they deserve to lose them.  Do I see an fake insurance claim being set up here?

 

DON

 

so sad to hear this 

 

from what i thought w.....

 

they know - and so does anyone that thinks that there is CCTV on there

 

why would anyone do it on CCTV on a ship 

on a secure ship

 

on the first day!

 

what you suggesting - i can not imagine but best is to just say they were mugged on a street of NYC without a CCTV!

34 minutes ago, champagne123 said:

Mmmmm.......interesting.....to say the least.

i was shocked reading replies like this

and trying to stay collected 

replying

 

>But also rather dis-jointed, and perhaps posted in haste.

yes it is true

i am traveling on business ... now i have only my ipad ... posting this and replies from it ...

mom is on the ship

and posted a doze facebook messenger 1 minute recording on this asking for advice ...

it is best nfo i could put together ...

==================

at dear @CruiseGal999

>"I do not believe you when you say that security can NOT view their OWN security footage.  That is #1 where this falls apart. "

i never wrote that

it was a misunderstanding / loss in what i meant / What you interpreted .... likely my mistake as i should have explained something like this in as much detail as i could

what i meant was that my mom requested to see CCTV with them!
but the declined this request

the security watched this on their own

my mother then made a formal request in writing
and requested a formal reply in writing as to why not

I am not sure i guess back home in much of US a victim can not just request to see CCTV

a police officer / detective must ...?

anyone knows the details

do citizens have this right? i guess it must go though legal process..

well here is the thing CCTV would make it clear
and clean

#1 if my mom walked into a room with a coat
#2 walked out with nothing
#3 new guests come
#4 my mom shows up - and the guests claim they do not know anything

it would implicate them
it would cause drama
NCL or anyone wouldn't want drama
they just want everything to be dandy on the sail ...

or possibility B
it shows a stewart walking out with the coats
what then
also drama

so NCL quietly keeps this CCTV to them selves

and no NYPD will likely not be allowed to see it
will they?

do citizens lose their rights on a cruise?

==================
addressing 2nd and 3rd point:

>Secondly, WHY would someone/anyone put their personal belongings in a cabin that was NOT their own cabin!  That doesn't compute ... on any level."

again i should have went into delicate details on this
my mom and her friend waited on a pier
were both hungry ...
wanted to eat ASAP
they found their cabin to be locked

so they found ANY cabin that was not
and made a BIG mistake - i guess  thinking they were at a merry house party where everyone is your good neighbor

==================
==================
@Flatbush Flyer

>Two(!) $2000 coats and they're on an NCL cruise? 👀

As mentioned by the previous poster, the entire story sounds bogus. 

i didn't get the exact exact prices of each coat and prices
yes i guess i should have somehow looked up the exact price for coat A
and B
all i know that it was ball park range

so all people who are NCL can not afford a coat?

==================
================== 

 

@sloopsailor

i wasn't there

but i worked for many banks and we made errors in millions and millions of dollars
all the time

just like say a self driven car can make a mistake ...

humans make errors
humans who program machines make errors
machines make errors
exceptions can happen all the time...

i wish i knew why their door was locked or what the exact reason was ..

i wasn't there ...

==================
==================

@John Bull

thank you 
thank you dear John Bull

yes i wasn't there

but then none of us were ..

i am missing exact details ..

but i was just curious of general advice

what can be done
what should be done

legally
morally
ethically

>And on the matter of "we're not permitted to view our CCTV", 

again i didn't write that

i wrote that

>mom asked to review the CCTV (with them) but security said it is not that simple as it is in US

meaning they have their own rules
a passenger is not allowed to see CCTV

or you might be right
that section was off / full / cam broken / on hold / in port / HD maintenance ... etc ... a dozen or two other reasons
when you are running hundreds or thousand+ cameras ... i wouldn't be surprised

==================
==================

 

@CruiseGal999

my mother sailed many times and never had a problem
and was under the impression i guess that it is one good house party

on top of that a secure house party
with CCTV - apparently worthless

with security - who are also apparently worthless - who in a long talk confessed that even if they did find the perpetrator law would forbid them from taking direct action ... lawsuit might arise ...

==================
she would not leave say her phone or rings or other valuables

but a huge huge coat

==================

i feel so bullied
and bad needing to defend on here

i didn't expect to be accused

i shouldn't have posed

i guess if it is not about merry good times... then it is not welcome on here

OMG psychologically that is probably what it is

it is like i would tell a patient that eating that cake full of sugar is bad for them while they were eating it ... and its their favorite cake ... which cruising is for many of us ... a blessed safe .. sacred experience ..... it should be

i wanted to ask advice

now i even though it might of have been good to share to give other heads up on any cruise .. anywhere ...

but i wish i never did
i will likely ask legally for CC to remove this

==================
==================
@chengkp75

>This is truly where the story doesn't hold water.  Not only Bahamian law, but international maritime law, and even the cruise line ticket contract, gives the cruise line the right to search any cabin at any time, with or without the passenger's consent or knowledge.  

yes exactly
a captains decision is final
so if it is not of greater convenience of the ship (and i understand it and respect that), the crew, the passengers

a loss for one is acceptable over a loss for many

so say they show my mom that other guests took the coat on CCTV
my mom would request that they follow international law or us law

and perhaps just perhaps it would require by law to put that guest behind bars for theft of (again approximately) $2000 + $2000 items

how does that make NCL look

maybe just maybe that even opens them up to a lawsuit - because as you know there are dime a dozen (no wait for free) trigger happy lawyers ready to find a cause and take the case... to settle outside the courtroom...

(they even said: sure if it was a missing child for instance it would be another case)

again i wasn't there
i wish i heard and could post an audio recording of what exactly they told my mom

if she even had it

and it would be illegal probably for her to record
or for me to post

so by trying to explain this ..m i am begining to see and understand how complex this is ...

it is better not to take any action
because any action
could make the situation worse
much worse

==================

but thank you for the info on
>Finally, crimes against US citizens, while on a foreign flag cruise ship, while the ship is in US waters or in international waters, must be reported to the FBI, and the US has claimed extra-territorial jurisdiction over these crimes.

==================

@ Flatbush Flyer
>But, everyone does have to admit that even the "well-to-do" probably wouldn't have/take a $2k coat on a cruise ship mostly populated by very very budget-conscious folks.

friend was visiting NYC from Europe - it is cold - yes with a good coat
and cruise is just part of it

so sorry that they picked a cheap cruise on which they can not go on with best coats they had

==================
@capriccio

>Wow, I am used to your condescending comments about mass market cruise lines, but can you get any more insulting by implying that 'very budget-conscious' folks are more likely to steal from their fellow passengers? Or maybe you are saying the 'well-to-do' wouldn't want to make the rest of the passengers feel bad?  Either case is a new low.

thank you 
thank you 

==================

@George C

thank you 

==================

>But I guess the first few responses have put them off.

Possibly for life.:classic_sad:

yes yes

thank you 

==================
@clskinsfan
>Maybe the coats will magically reappear at some point. After all IF their neighbors have the coats it is not like they can go walking around the ship with them on.

but apparently nothing prevents those folks from walking out with them in their cases

no on can or will search them

==================

hi my dear Cruise Critic family ... happy holidays. 🙂

 

we need your help - please be so kind to advise: my mother and her friend are on board of NCL ship sailed out of NYC

 

upon boarding they made a mistake and put their coats into cabin next to theirs as theirs was locked

they went to eat

upon return they found their expensive coats ~$2000 each to be missing 😕

 

new people inside the cabin said they do not know anything

 

and were not permitted to check ... security was called ... and tried to mediate ... mediate

 

my mom asked to review the CCTV but security said it is not that simple as it in US ... they sail and are governed under Bahama flag ... so somethibg prevents them from doing that ... they made a formal request in writing and are awaiting for a formal reply

 

security / personnel sympathized with them and are trying to comfort them by saying do not worry, mayne they will turn up...

 

but said that they are not able to search a cabin, but even if they did and found it they are not able to do anything under the law ... regulations .. restrictions ... legal aspect ... 

 

what would you do?

 

what could be done?

 

please be so kind to advise ... thank you  ...

thank you so much

 

but I am disappointed that I can not find

 

nor seems to be that anyonce can point me to some central database with all the cruises that are for sale and their port of calls

 

pretty easy database to have

 

there must be one

 

all of these cruises are for sale - so it's not a secret

 

maybe someone knows some listing like that?

 

thank you ...

good day dear fellow CC brothers and sisters - happy holidays!

 

what are available references for us to look up past and future cruises to a particular port

 

in particular Boracay, Philippines

 

I did try to do a general google search - I found future dates - but not past ...

must be some sites that keep a reference

 

please share...

thank you ..

 

PS

 

I am in Boracay now and I have seen a Celebrity on Nov 20th and NCL on Nov 21st, 2017

 

and today Nov 29th another NCL

 

I would love to know the name of the ships .... maybe me or my filmy ... friends have been on these floating cities ...