kryos

Can anyone tell me, if you are wait-listed for traditional dining, how likely ae you to get it??

You don't tell us in your post what kind of a cruise you are going on. Is it a short one that's popular with younger families, or a longish one that gets a lot of older people? If it's a longer one, I would say that early will be very popular. If it's a shorter one, it could be that late is more popular. But if there are a lot of children on the cruise, then early could be more popular on a short cruise as well, since children can rarely wait until 8:30 or so to eat.

 

Personally, if it were me, I would waitlist for the late seating if late dining is important to you. Then once onboard, your friend can see if she can get moved to early. Often if it's only one person, the dining room manager can move them ... since there are some tables with an odd number of passengers and since most people travel in couples, and want to eat together, they can't put anyone else in that slot. So, it's perfect for a single.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

I checked priority disembarkation at ports, but I need to clarify this. I would only pay extra for that if I was doing an independent excursion and needed to be on the pier early. Sometimes if you're at a tender port, it can be difficult to set up your own excursions since often the cruise line's shore excursions always go off first. So, I would be willing to pay a nominal sum in this case to get off and meet my excursion provider.

 

As for anything else I'd be willing to pay extra for, nothing on that list qualifies. To me, you only pay extra for special things ... things that you would not normally get on a cruise.

 

For example, yes, I would be willing to pay extra for things like unlimited laundry on a long cruise. I may also be willing to pay extra for some special programming, like hands on classes in photography or to learn a new skill. I'm not talking about lectures here, but rather hands-on classes that perhaps supplemented a lecture program on a particular topic.

 

I think cruise lines are losing out on a major money-making opportunity here ... and I think they're being extraordinarily dumb in letting this revenue stream pass them by.

 

On certain longer cruises, the cruise lines should coordinate a couple of onboard lecture series with hands-on classes that people can take for a fee. Almost everyone likes to learn something new when on a longer cruise ... especially a grand voyage or world cruise. Why not capitalize on that? Carefully orchestrate a lecture series (such as Holland America's Exploration Speakers Series) with a series of hands-on classes. For example, have a renowned nature photographer onboard to provide some lectures on his work. These lectures, as with all shipboard lectures, would be free. But he would also offer a series of hands-on workshops, limited to a certain number of people, for those who wanted to explore the topic further. Add to this some included shore excursions where participants can hone their skills under the photographer's personal direction, and you have the makings of a very nice product that can be packaged and sold. I'd be willing to bet there would be enough passengers who would take advantage of this to make it worthwhile.

 

Of course, photography is just one example. There are many others ... music, art, acting, crafts ... you name it. Sailings could have "themes" and passengers could either just attend the free lectures, or could choose to more thoroughly explore the topic via the enhanced program for an extra charge.

 

But it is stuff like this that I might be willing to pay extra for. I would not be willing to pay for things like room service. I'd sooner run up to the Lido and get my own snacks.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

The thing that burned us was that we met a couple to was upset with AYWD and wanted a fixed table and waiter. They were told that the only way to assure this was "the old fashioned way" - bribe the maitre d'. They sliped him $20 and got a fixed table for the entire cruise. What can you do??

First of all, I'd bet they slipped him more than a $20 to make that work. Probably more like a hundred.

 

Second of all, I'd have reported the matri 'd to the Hotel Manager. That is not fair. Supposedly who gets those fixed seating assignments when they are rare is determined by order of booking, after groups and suite passengers. Giving someone a coveted slot in fixed dining just because some money changed hands isn't kosher ... not on a ship where everyone pays their passage. Now if we were talking something like a special table by the window or something like that, maybe I could understand a tip getting you that ... but not an assignment in the dining room of your choice. I thought this new program was called "As you Wish," not "As you can Pay?"

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

Personally don't feel that Fixed seating & Anytime Dining works very well together on HAL..Perhaps it was just that Ship, but believe it should be one or the other..

Again JMO...Please don't flame me for it....Cheers...:) Betty

I would hardly flame you, because I agree with you. HAL is not set up to offer both forms of dining and that's why I think all the problems.

 

As I said before, I've never done open seating on HAL, but will during my upcoming Statendam cruise, but it would seem to me that HAL should have gone one way or the other ... either ALL fixed seating or ALL open seating ... because the way they are doing it now, everybody is probably having longer waits -- the ones in open seating to get a table and the ones in fixed seating to get their courses.

 

Princess even has problems with open seating, and they have a dining room dedicated to it. HAL doesn't have that luxury and has to mix both in one two-tier dining room. If fixed seating has to overflow into the open seating dining room, it ruins the ambience of the meal because there are people walking in and out while the fixed seating folks are trying to enjoy their meal.

 

Open seating works great on the smaller luxury line ships because the dining room can handle ALL the passengers, even if they all decided to eat at the same time. No way can a mass market line do that, and therein lies your long waits for a table, especially if you want to dine only with your spouse or group.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

When we did dine in the DR, we were not-so-politely rushed and regretted not just going to Lido.

I'd love for them to try that with me.

 

I'm a slow eater to begin with. Rush me and I get even slower.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

We experienced open seating on the Golden Princess a few years ago and HATED it! We needed to make reservations EVERY evening and still needed to wait for a table. The service was "spotty" depending on what waiters were assigned to that table.

I would imagine that was probably because the dining room was not big enough to support the number of passengers on the ship. I think with Princess, the trend is toward open seating ... at least that was my experience on the two cruises I took on the line. By the middle of the week, there were tons of empty spots in traditional dining as folks made friends onboard and decided they wanted to eat with them in open seating.

 

Perhaps if Princess sees that the overwhelming majority of their passengers are opting for open seating, they should maybe eliminate fixed altogether?

 

For open seating dining to truly work, your dining room must be big enough to accommodate the majority of the open seating passengers ... even if they all decided to come to dinner at roughly the same time. Obviously, Princess (and HAL) cannot do this due to the constraints of their dining room size. So people wait, while the diners currently seated are rushed through their meal. That's why you have waits. On Azamara I would imagine the dining room can accommodate the majority of the passengers, and hence no waits and people can enjoy a nice leisurely dinner without feeling rushed by the service staff who are being pressured to turn over that table.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

We experienced open seating on the Azamara Journey and LOVED it. Azamara is ALL open seating. We never waited for a table and the service was excellent!!

And I think herein is where HAL's problem is with their AYWD. They offer both formats, and are not truly equipped to do so.

 

Yes, Princess for years has offered both Anytime and Fixed Seating, but Princess has a SEPARATE dining room for each. On HAL, it's just a separate level, and from what I understand, if there are too many people in fixed to fit them all in the one dining room, they overflow them into sections of the AYWD room. So, you're sitting there enjoying your dinner and people are constantly walking by ... being shown to their tables or leaving after their meal. Not a very conducive environment for an elegant meal.

 

Now you get a cruise line like Azamara or one of the luxury lines that only offer open seating, and it works. That's because ALL dining options are on open seating. I doubt people wait very long for a table because there are plenty of them. On HAL, you only have 50% (at the most) of the tables in the dining room available for open seating and thus if everyone comes at the same basic time, obviously there are going to be waits. I would imagine the only way to make open seating work would be to eat at an unusual and less popular time ... like 5:30 or after 8:00 p.m. ... which means that AYWD is not really "As You Wish" at all, but rather "How it Must Be."

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

Our meals were hot and served quickly, but one reviewer who ate later had longer waits, slow service, and colder meals.

 

...

 

How is that service different than anytime dining? Would the dining room be open all day? It was open at set times for breakfast and lunch on our cruise.

My guess is the other reviewer had an inexperienced waiter who was having difficulty keeping up the pace. If his meals were cold that means they were left sitting in the kitchen too long. Either his waiter had too many tables to serve, or was having difficulty doing his job.

 

I think ... and this is just a hypothesis ... that the service in AYWD would be faster than that in traditional simply because they would be trying to push people through so as to turnover tables. Also, since you have a different waitstaff each night, depending on where you sit, they probably don't take too much time talking and getting to know you. In traditional, you have the same waiters every night and you get to know them. There's more conversation and thus I would imagine the service would be a bit slower. Also, I get the feeling from my past several cruises that the kitchen prepares one course of the meal at a time. So if most people are on salads, and you aer finished with your salad and ready for the next course, you're gonna wait until everyone else catches up before they bring your next course. This could slow things down too. Also, if you order only a couple of courses ... say an entree and a salad, and others at the table are ordering all five courses, you are gonna have to wait to get your entree until the others have all had their soup, salad and appetizer. Again, this slows things down.

 

With AYWD, though, people at different tables will be on different courses, and I don't imagine the waiters will have to keep everyone on the same course. I would assume that if you just order a salad and an entree, they could bring your entree as soon as you were ready for it, even if the others were still having their soup or appetizer.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

Actually not true, I booked my cruise last month, staying in a deluxe suite and I thought I wouldn't have a problem but I did.

If I were you, I'd be looking for a new travel agent then. You shouldn't have had to deal with it, plain and simple. She should have known what you wanted and that you had priority for it, and made sure it was waiting for you when you got onboard. After all, she got that nice commission on your luxury suite booking ... so she should have been more than willing to do a bit of work for it to make sure you had a stress-free vacation.

 

Blue skies!

 

--rita

Yes, Rita, very sound logic. Which cruise lines, in the same price range, are highlighting fixed seating as a feature of their offering? As yourself why none are.

I'm not familiar with all the cruise lines, obviously, but I believe among the mass market lines only NCL and Princess offer flexible dining (NCL offers it exclusively). I believe Royal Caribbean may also be experimenting with it.

 

It seems that flexible dining is very popular with younger families and on Princess I've seen the fixed seating dining room become empty towards the middle of a cruise because lots of passengers bolted from fixed seating when they saw how much other folks onboard were enjoying flexible dining.

 

The only thing I can assume is that HAL must have a lot of people wanting flexible dining as well. I can't believe they would have just made a change this major on a whim. They must have had comment cards complaining about the lack of such a dining option, and thus decided to institute one. So, obviously someone likes it.

 

But HAL has a lot of traditional type cruisers who don't want any parts of AYWD. For those staying in suites, they don't have to deal with it. For those traveling in groups, they probably don't either. But for the rest of us, many are gonna get stuck in AYWD simply because there's a whole dining room whose capacity needs to be utilized, and another that's filled to capacity. So, unfortunately, some people are going to have to be switched around and are not going to dine as they wish. :( That's just the way, unfortunately, that it is.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

We just returned from Alaska on the Ryndam and had the anytime dining. They prefer that you make a reservation ahead of time, but we didn't one nite and had to wait about 10mins for a table.

Now this is something I find laughable. Why on earth should you have to make reservations ahead of time? It makes no sense. Isn't the entire purpose of flexible dining to be able to decide on the fly when you want to eat? You should just be able to walk into the dining room and request a table. Sure you might have to wait a few minutes, especially if you want a specific size or location of table, but otherwise HAL shouldn't even be taking reservations in flexible dining. It should be just that ... flexible.

 

I know that I have AYWD on my upcoming HAL cruise, and I have no intention of making reservations. HAL wants to stick me into AYWD, then I'm gonna make it work for me by giving myself total flexibility. When I'm hungry, I'll show up for dinner (within the set hours, of course). And since I have no problem sharing a table with others, I expect to be seated quickly as well.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

So, I do agree with your premise---there are many subtle, and not so subtle, pushes to open seating.

I don't see this as a push to open seating at all. Rather, I see it as a necessity on the part of the cruise line.

 

A year, 18 months or even as little as six to eight months out HAL does not know what demands will be made for fixed seating. They have suite passengers who are supposed to get priority. Maybe there are still some that haven't made known their dining preferences, or there may be a lot of suites that have not yet been booked. Also, you have the added variable of groups. They too get priority. If you have an affinity group of 200 that come onboard the sailing, they may decide that they all want late seating, with a cluster of tables set aside strictly for the group. They have to be accommodated before a regular passenger is. This is exactly the case on my Carnival cruise next month. I'm attending a fan's convention onboard, and where people were originally told to select a dining time, the group leaders made the decision about four months ago to move everyone to late seating. We had to pay our standard gratuities upfront, but now we get to hop from table to table each night ... as long as we stay with the tables set aside for our group. Surely, some others lost out on late seating to accommodate us, but that's just the way it is.

 

So, to be honest, if I were HAL, I wouldn't confirm fixed seating for anyone either. I'd automatically either waitlist them for fixed seating, or list their dining as flexible. Then, when they get onboard they can queue up for changes. If I have extra tables, I accommodate them. If not, they eat in AYWD or they go to the Lido. Simple as that.

 

I'd rather tell someone that they are stuck with flexible dining and then make them happy by giving them a slot in fixed when they get onboard, than tell someone they had fixed dining, late seating, and then have to disappoint them because a large group took over their table.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

Only thing I do is shop the cruise pretty hard to get best price. After that, school's out........ This is not meant to belittle those that feel the need to go ther cheap route, it's not just for us as it doesn't take that much more $'s.

I'll be honest ... I'm pretty much with you on this subject. Except for the wine thing on occasion ... I too don't worry about what I spend on a cruise. I only take about one every year/year and a half, so if a nice fruity drink is what I want, I get one and don't worry about the cost.

 

I try to pay for as many things in advance that I can (Holland America) including wine and cocktail cards, and shore excursions ... maybe in some cases even prepaid gratuities ... so that my onboard bill is not too hard on the eyes ... and then I just get onboard and have fun. I'll worry about the bills later.

 

My feeling is this. If I happen to spend too much and get myself into a hole, I could always wait an extra few months before cruising again. The bills will get paid, so it makes no sense losing sleep over them.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

Are you a tightwad cruiser too? If so, what do you do

I don't buy that much wine in the bars.

 

What I do is bring some onboard (ordered from the cruise line in advance, or perhaps bought in port) and then take a glass from my cabin to the dining room or to a lounge if I am meeting friends. Who knows where that glass of wine came from? I don't see anything wrong with this, in spite of what people have told me, especially since in most cases, I've ordered that wine from ship's services to be waiting in my stateroom when I board.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

What do you think will be the effect (if any) on food prep and service with the introduction of AYW dining? I know when HAL went to 4 dining times instead of 2, one of the reasons given was to take some of the load off the galley staff. Is it easier or more difficult for the staff to accomodate traditional and AYW dining?

The kitchen preps all the food ahead of time ... to a certain extent. In actuality, I've been told that AYWD will improve food prep because the food can be more prepared specifically to the guest's tastes. Since the kitchen does not have to get 200 steak dinners out at the same time, they can prepare each dish more in an "ala minute" style ... at least as to the final preparations.

 

As for service, I would imagine it would be faster in many cases ... especially if you tend to dine at off times. The waitstaff could conceivably only have you to serve for most of the meal. They may be set up to serve three tables at their station, maybe two tables for six and a table for two. If you and your spouse are the only ones sitting at that table for two, and the other two tables are empty, you can only imagine the personalized service you will get.

 

The only bad thing I see as that the waitstaff could be screwed. What happens if they are almost ready to go off duty and a party of six walks into the dining room? Now they have to serve that party of six, which may take two hours, and needless to say the waitstaff will be working late that night. But, if that party of six came in before the stroke of the deadline time, they have to be seated and served. The waitstaff has no choice. This AYWD, at least as far as I see it, is gonna definitely cause them to work longer hours ... even if they are not working as hard.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

What do you think will be the effect (if any) on food prep and service with the introduction of AYW dining? I know when HAL went to 4 dining times instead of 2, one of the reasons given was to take some of the load off the galley staff. Is it easier or more difficult for the staff to accomodate traditional and AYW dining?

The kitchen preps all the food ahead of time ... to a certain extent. In actuality, I've been told that AYWD will improve food prep because the food can be more prepared specifically to the guest's tastes. Since the kitchen does not have to get 200 steak dinners out at the same time, they can prepare each dish more in an "ala minute" style ... at least as to the final preparations.

 

As for service, I would imagine it would be faster in many cases ... especially if you tend to dine at off times. The waitstaff could conceivably only have you to serve for most of the meal. They may be set up to serve three tables at their station, maybe two tables for six and a table for two. If you and your spouse are the only ones sitting at that table for two, and the other two tables are empty, you can only imagine the personalized service you will get.

 

The only bad thing I see as that the waitstaff could be screwed. What happens if they are almost ready to go off duty and a party of six walks into the dining room? Now they have to serve that party of six, which may take two hours, and needless to say the waitstaff will be working late that night. But, if that party of six came in before the stroke of the deadline time, they have to be seated and served. The waitstaff has no choice. This AYWD, at least as far as I see it, is gonna definitely cause them to work longer hours ... even if they are not working as hard.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

In May, on the Noordam, so many in fixed seating bolted for AYW, that it was appaernet to the most causal observer that the crew had no idea when or where anyone would show up.

If that's the case, then it is obvious traditional is not very popular. There is no way HAL is gonna be able to effectively track this. The problem, in my opinion, is that the dinner hours in the Lido are far too restrictive. If someone is late getting back to the ship from port, chances are they would have missed the dinner service in the Lido anyway, since it ends by about 7:30 p.m. So, where do they eat? In the AYW dining room, of course! Perhaps if HAL extended the Lido dinner service hours on port days, more people would do the right thing and just go up there if they missed their early seating time in Traditional.

 

It's a thought anyway.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

I believe that HAL should allow people to sign up for the dining system that they prefer, and then require that they stick with it for the cruise.

I agree with you 100%, but how are they gonna enforce it? Of course, the first night of your cruise, you'll probably have to show your dining assignment card in AYW, but I can't imagine the Matri 'd will be checking those cards throughout the cruise. So, what's to stop somebody who maybe misses their assigned dining time in traditional due to an extended day in port from walking into the AYW dining room and requesting a table? Maybe they don't care to eat at the Lido buffet ... or maybe they got back too late for it. Either way, they want sit-down service and thus go to the AYW dining room.

 

That's the problem with offering both types of dining, and I know Princess wrestles with this as well. You should have seen our area of the traditional dining room by mid-way through a 15-day cruise ... empty seats everywhere ... yet the waiters could not seat someone else in those spots because you never knew if the assigned people were going to show up.

 

Personally, I think it's more efficient to have one type of dining ... either traditional or AYW. Go with the majority preference and those who don't like it can simply choose another cruise line to sail. NCL pioneered the freestyle dining concept and they seem quite able to fill their ships each week. So, if HAL is so bloody sure that AYW dining is in demand, perhaps they should scrap traditional altogether (and who knows? Maybe they eventually will) and focus all their energies on making AYW dining a success.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

THANKS for the heads up. That's an itinerary I MIGHT try to book. It's a possibility, at any rate. And it's a cruise I'd like to take.

I have an even better idea. If you're looking for something in 2009, why not join me on a Grand Voyage! I just booked (well, actually paid the hundred bucks to reserve a spot on the priority wait list) the Austrailia, New Zealand and South Pacific Grand Voyage. 66 days of pure bliss! It will be the perfect "reward" for finishing this crap school ... and since I won't be cruising before then, I'll have plenty of time to save up the significant bucks required for such a trip ...

 

It would be great if you could join me, Rev!

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

Rita, at the risk of being a little too forthright (especially when I don't normally post on this particular board), I suggest that there is a danger in repeating the experiences of others (even those who you trust), especially when you are dealing with something as subjective as food and service levels.

I am merely going by what several people have told me about their experiences on a couple of different NCL ships. And, in my post I clearly stated that this information was second hand ... that I personally had never taken an NCL cruise.

 

The way it was related to me was that the food was "ho hum" in the regular dining rooms ... bordering between adequate and sub-par. But the food in the specialty restaurants was generally very good to excellent.

 

I'm not saying the same will happen with HAL when they go to AYW Dining. HAL only has one specialty restaurant onboard their current ships ... and I cannot imagine they would want to route a significant number of passengers over to that venue since the Pinnacle Grill would probably not be able to handle them all. But some of the larger NCL ships have several extra-tariff restaurants and I could well imagine they would want to keep them full each night. Otherwise, why bother having them?

 

I'm not saying the food in NCL's dining rooms is inedible. I'm just saying that if you want a really memorable meal ... of the quality you will generally get in HAL's regular dining rooms ... these folks told me that you really need to eat in one of the specialty venues. Now how someone wants to take that information ... how much value they wish to place on it ... is entirely up to them. No one says they should take it as gospel. It's opinion only ... and we all have one of them.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

Rita ... you're naughty ... you do that on purpose! I know you ... ye who jumps out of airplanes over Hawaii and writes an excellent book ... you plan for everything! Those cute, blond, young, Dutch Deck-officers are always willing to help a poor, flustered neophyte, eh??? :eek: ;) :D

LOL ... what can I say? You got me. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

No, I've not seen them ... I'm usually busy in my cabin, unpacking, before the Life Boat Drill. :) I usually put my jacket on and head out to my muster station about 5 minutes before the announced time of the drill. Those who wait until the whistle starts to blow before they head back to their cabins, get their vests, and head to their stations are the ones who slow everything down.

You're actually unpacked before drill? Man, then I must be packing too much. I'm rushing around until the very last minute ... and then cursing when the alarm sounds and I haven't even put my lifejacket on yet. LOL ... that's why I always wind up having a nice officer fix the mess I've made of the straps on the jacket. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

We sometimes travel with a family who are consumed with being first. They are first on. They line up for the muster drill about 30-45 minutes early. They also arrive for dinner about 30 minutes before the doors open and then it's the mad dash to the show lounge for front and center seating. They also try to be first off to race to the airport for their 3-4:00 PM flight. It's exhausting to observe them do what they do. It's just their way.

LOL ... and then there's me running down the hallway well after everyone else has headed out onto deck for the lifeboat drill ... being hurried along by the hall monitors. :)

 

I'd be late for my own funeral. That's just the way I am. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

I did the freestyle on ncl and hated it. I thought the quality of the food was less and all the better dishes were at the specialty restaurants that charge. The service was rushed, not relaxing.

I've never sailed NCL, but I hear that if you want good food and service on their ships, you have to go to the specialty dining rooms ... the ones with the extra tariff associated. Otherwise, odds are you're not gonna be happy.

 

I guess you have to do something to direct people to the specialty dining rooms when you have several of them onboard. After all, if the food was great in the standard dining venues, why on earth would people pay extra to eat?

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

I'm seriously thinking about booking it.

Let me see if I can miss one week of school. If so, then I'll book it with you. That January 5th one definitely would be the best for me, in terms of price as well as timing. I really hate like the devil to blow a double shift of holiday pay, which New Years would be. Frankly, I'd much sooner miss a week of class. Now, I've got the right attitude, don't I? :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita